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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5145
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 02:23 pm: | 
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Don't this motherfucker look EXACTLY like Satan??
Trash rap makes Imus possible
The same standard of racial accountability must apply whether the offender is an Imus or a 50 Cent.
by Earl Ofari Hutchinson
The Philadelphia Inquirer (MCT)
13 April 2007
“Can U Control Yo Hoe”—so asks the high priest of gangster rap, Snoop Dogg, on his CD “R&G: (Rhythm and Gangsta): The Masterpiece.”
In “Housewife” on his CD 2001, Dr. Dre says, “Naw, `hoe’ is short for honey.”
Rapper Beanie Sigel says, “Watch Your Bitches” on his 2001 album “The Reason.”
And 50 Cent commands: “••••• choose with me” on his 2003 track “P.I.M.P.”
Just a light sampling of how gangster rappers, some black filmmakers, and comedians routinely reduce young black women to “stuff,” “bitches” and “hoes.” Their contempt reinforces the slut image of black women and sends the message that violence, mistreatment and verbal abuse of black women are socially acceptable. Despite lawsuits, protests and boycotts by women’s groups, gangster-themed films and rap music continue to soar in popularity. Hollywood and music companies rake in small fortunes off them, and so do a few rappers.
Now enter shock-jock Don Imus, the latest white guy to be transformed into a racially and gender-incorrect punching bag for his Michael Richardsesque epithets against the Rutgers University women’s basketball team.
He, of course, has been verbally mugged, battered, abused and (momentarily) furloughed from his radio and TV show. Imus has genuflected—no, groveled—to the Rev. Al Sharpton, civil-rights leaders, and the Rutgers team, begging forgiveness. Imus certainly deserves the kick in the shins he’s getting. Even he admits that he rocketed way past the line of what—even by the raunchy and low-road standards of shock-jockism—is considered acceptable.
But again, Imus is the softest of soft targets. The same can’t be said for the black rap shock-jocks. They made Imus possible. They gave him the rapper’s bad-housekeeping seal of approval to bash and trash black women. In many ways, their artistic degradation has had even more damaging consequences for young black women. Homicide now ranks as one of the leading causes of deaths of young black females. A black woman is far more likely to be raped than a white woman and slightly more likely to be the victim of domestic violence than a white woman.
Who are the assailants? Not white racist cops or Klan nightriders, but other black males. The media play their own roles, often magnifying and sensationalizing crimes by black men against white women, but ignoring or downplaying crimes against black women. The verbal demeaning of black women has made them the scapegoats for many of the crisis social problems in American society.
What’s even more galling is that some blacks cite a litany of excuses, such as poverty, broken homes and abuse, to excuse the sexual abuse and violence (both physical and rhetorical) by top black male artists. These explanations for the misdeeds of rappers and singers are phony and self-serving. The ones who have landed hard on a court docket are anything but hard-core, dysfunctional, poverty types. P. Diddy, who predated R. Kelly as the poster boy for extramusical malevolence, is college-educated and hails from a middle-class home. He typifies the fraud that these artists are up-from-the-ghetto, self-made men.
The daunting puzzle, then, remains why so many blacks storm the barricades in fury against a Richards or an Imus, but are stone silent, or utter only the feeblest of protests, when blacks bash and trash. Or even worse, tacitly condone their verbal abuse. There are two reasons for that.
Blacks have been the ancient target of racial stereotypes, negative typecasting, and mockery. This has made them hypersensitive to any real or perceived racial slight from whites. That’s totally understandable, and civil-rights leaders are right to criticize celebrities, politicians and public figures for their racial gaffes, slips or broadsides.
The second reason is that blacks fear that if they publicly criticize other blacks for their racial attitudes, such disagreements will be gleefully twisted, mangled and distorted into a fresh round of black-bashing by whites. But that’s a lame reason for not speaking out, and loudly, against blacks who, either out of ignorance or for profit, or both, routinely commercialize racial and gender trash talk.
Such failure fuels the suspicion that blacks, and especially black leaders, are more than willing to play the race card, and call white people bigots, when it serves their interests, but will circle the wagons and defend any black who comes under fire for bigotry—or anything else, for that matter.
The same standard of racial accountability must apply whether the racial and gender offender is an Imus or a 50 Cent. When it doesn’t, that’s a double standard, and that always translates into hypocrisy. Imus got his trash-talk pass yanked. Now let’s yank it from blacks who do the same or worse.
ABOUT THE WRITER
Earl Ofari Hutchinson (hutchinsonreport AT aol.com) is a political analyst and author of the forthcoming “The Latino Challenge to Black America: Towards a Conversation between African-Americans and Hispanics.” He wrote this for The Philadelphia Inquirer.
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/news/article/33113/trash-rap-makes-imus-possible/ |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 4481
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 02:29 pm: |
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Post one more Imus thread and I'm coming up to Philly to snatch your nappy head 
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8269
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 02:46 pm: |
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This Imus incident has really taken on a life of its own. In some quarters Imus is starting to emerge as a scapegoat and with the focus shifting to the rappers who inspired him, black folks are going to have to do some serious soul-searching. Ironically, the politically-correct position would seem to be that rappers are not responsible for white racism. And if blacks proceed with this line of attack, who will be the winner??? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5147
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 02:50 pm: |
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It's a 50 Cent, Beanie Sigel thread... I ain't scurrred of the Black community! |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2261
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 03:26 pm: |
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This IS all very interesting...only subject people have to be perfect. Hutchinson's point, well taken, is ridiculous. The drive of his article is to not be hypocrtical and not to legitimize doublestandards.
Well, how to we really determine and measure these?
In other words, as part of our challenge to racism and sexsim, we then have to be super human and raise above what is humanly possible.
Context is everything, but certainly black men can be as verbally and physically misogynist as white men, but white men control the world. And ultimately in this context, the white man is controlling the conversation. If we are really going to equate Imus to 50 cent [not talkin bout money here but their differing power and its reach], we must place them in the context of this racist country and world for that matter.
And when we do that, we can see that in order to legitimize our pleas for justice, we ultimately must tighten up our ship, because once we call someone outside our community a racist, they will say but what about your about how you speak of your own, and then since we dont have backbone we generally fall away, or in this case, we try to make an entire industry respectable, the same, and bourgeois [where sexism and racism is expressed by omission or calling someone the best black or something or another].....just some thoughts!
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8273
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 03:53 pm: |
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I seems that in order for blacks to prevail, they have to adopt an attitude that whites are always wrong and blacks are always right and where this seems to lead to is a dead end. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5150
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 04:36 pm: |
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Yeah, well, I'mma be hanging out with the Black moderates and conservatives, even the far right Black extremists, for a little while. Sorry, Yok!
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Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2262
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 05:24 pm: |
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No Cynique, they have extract the actions of individuals out of the larger context.
You should be with whomever you like, Tonya. Thats none of my business. |
Mony
Regular Poster
Username: Mony
Post Number: 56
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 06:04 pm: |
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Since when did Snoopy dog, 50 cent and their ilk become arbiters of whats what in society. On the other hand, society is in trouble if they hand these guys any credence given their misogynistic views. |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1996
Registered: 08-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 06:42 pm: |
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To keep it short, I actually quite agree with the article. I don't want to be thought of as a ho by Imus OR Snoop Dogg OR 50 Cent.
I just heard some lady on the news say appropriately: We have to lead by example and show how we want our women treated. If we don't want other people calling our women hos, we can't call them hos. |
Enchanted
Veteran Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 774
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 06:44 pm: |
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rappers wield more power globully than white men when it comes to what young people think and use that power to abuse black women. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5151
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 06:46 pm: |
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"You should be with whomever you like, Tonya. Thats none of my business."
Damn that was COLD! ...LOL
I was only joking, you know...forgot the L-O-L
Of course I'd never swing with the conservatives/extremists!
...not that you care. 
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Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2000
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 07:07 pm: |
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Tonya and Yukio...don't you both live in New England? |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 4484
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 08:13 pm: |
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Yeah Tonya and Yukio. Where is the love?
I thought you two were gonna get together
and have some nappy headed children
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Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2264
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 08:22 pm: |
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no, i live in on the left coast.
if there was total agreement, life would be boring! |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2265
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 08:32 pm: |
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well, i think there is a huge difference between the two men. one is black and the other is white. one called black women hos because they're black women and the other calls women hos when they're hos [that what he said...LOL!]
There is a quandary, here. Are we so concerned with what white people think that we can not call a ho a ho?
While we embrace our groupness, do we have to equate the actions of one person with the values and cultural of the entire group?
Is Snoop's and others' music so penetrating that black women think they are hos? |
Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2001
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 08:51 pm: |
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Yukio. That isn't a difference at all. Why would I want a black man to call me a ho if I don't want anyone else calling me one?
And who do you think you're KIDDING? I'm sure that I'm not the ONLY woman here who has been called a ho or a bytch for something as simple as not giving my phone number to someone I've met on the train (or in a club, on the bus, on the street, in the mall, etc.). I usually walk off from them and say nothing because they're in a GROUP with other men and I don't want any trouble, not because I agree with them.
And I PROMISE you that black women (not just WHORES) are called ho MORE by black men who know nothing about us than by white men and to our faces.
Why is this OK with us? |
Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2002
Registered: 08-2005
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 08:56 pm: |
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Seriously....
Women, say something if you have ever been approached by a STRANGER and you told him you're not interested or you're with someone and he says out LOUDLY to your face "you're just a stank ho or stank bytch anyways"....and without even knowing your name.
Or even if you've just witnessed it on a train or bus.
Yukio, we don't even have to buy rap cd's to hear it. Just because you guys ONLY notice it in music doesn't mean the rest of us don't have to hear it. |
Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2004
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 09:09 pm: |
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Or even better.....if you're a woman and you don't mind being called a ho, please forward your information to these rappers so they can mention you in their songs by name. |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2268
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 09:30 pm: |
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You are right that black men call black women bitches for no reason but their own shortcomings. But this aint because of rappers; it is reflection of broader society, as you are pointing out.
This doesn't mean that it is ok, because it isn't. But if there is a difference between callin a ho a ho and a black woman a ho because she's a black woman.
And to equate them, especially in this case, places the burden on black men and lightens it for the white man... if black men are misogynist then it because they learned it from white men. |
Renata
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Username: Renata
Post Number: 2005
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 09:38 pm: |
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Again, WHAT THE FUK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
It doesn't lighten it for ANYONE. We don't want to hear it from ANYONE. Just remember that. Stop trying to rationalize and wonder what percentage blame goes to you and what percentage goes to the white men. WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT AT ALL. I don't know how to put it any simpler than that.
And here's something REAL to think about...if Imus' language hadn't been so CLOSE to the same language black men use, you all would have REALLY looked good literally stringing him up by his balls.
And if there's a difference between calling a ho a ho and a black woman a ho, there must be a very thin line between the two because MOST women who are called hos AREN'T. MOST OF THEM. The MAJORITY. |
Enchanted
Veteran Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 775
Registered: 11-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 09:52 pm: |
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black men DO call us "ho" and "golddiggers" just becuase we are black yukio where you been? Any blindman can see the dif how they talk about black women more harsher than white because we are black. if we were white we could no wrong. |
Enchanted
Veteran Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 776
Registered: 11-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 09:54 pm: |
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QUOTE Yuki: if black men are misogynist then it because they learned it from white men. So I guess you skipped African history before the white man right? you making less and less sense. |
Yukio
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Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2270
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 10:45 pm: |
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Renata: I got your point along time ago, and dont agree with it. There's not need to you to say it again or differently.
enchanted: black men DO call us "ho" and "golddiggers" just becuase we are black yukio where you been?
I already agreed with that...reread above!
Enchanted:So I guess you skipped African history before the white man right? you making less and less sense.
Misogyny in one place isn't misogyny in another...the kind that Africans practice and Africans Americans practice is quite different; the latter's is fundamentally euro-american, that is, derivative of those in control of this country and our history.
I'm talkin about power. To call abuse a woman is wrong, be it verbally or physically. So, AGAIN, I am in agreement with you concerning the abuses of black men...
BUT, at both the interpersonal level and structural level, white men are more powerful, and their beliefs, rhetoric, etc...has much greater sway than a black man's. But thats my opinion...
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Renata
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Username: Renata
Post Number: 2008
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 10:58 pm: |
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WHATEVER, Yukio.
In your typical African American neighborhood, white men aren't around enough to care about the power there.
When teenage girls are hurt by that word at school and in their own neighborhoods, who do you think they're being hurt by? There aren't any white men around calling them that.
Just wait until your daughter tells you someday that someone called her that, and come back and tell us if it really wasn't such a big deal because a black guy said it.
And I PROMISE you and SWEAR to you she's going to hear MUCH MORE OFTEN from black guys in her own neighborhood than she's going to hear it from any white man.
And if you say black men learned it from white men, that implies that your brains are still in working order.....please be at least smart enough to learn from YOUR OWN WOMEN to call them something not so derogatory. You seem to "learn from the white men" to call us hos.......learn from us that we don't want to be called that. LEARN SOMETHING NEW. |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2274
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 11:29 pm: |
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I already agreed--several times, in fact--that black men are abusive. But I said, the abuse coming from black men and white men is different.
When teenage girls are hurt by that word at school and in their own neighborhoods, who do you think they're being hurt by?
Black men and boys!... And who consoles them? Black people, men and women, mother and father, brother and sister, aunt and uncle.
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Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2010
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 11:48 pm: |
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It's the SAME. TAKE IT FROM A WOMAN.
The problem with men is that we will tell you exactly how we feel, and you tell us what we feel is wrong and then try to tell us how we SHOULD feel.
You just want to THINK it's different so you can CONTINUE to use the term. Don't even front. It's either WRONG for any man to call us that....OR it's "not quite so wrong" for black men to call us that. It can't be both.
How can you tell me that it's different when men abuse me, when I TELL YOU that it's the same to me? That's like telling a chicken that being fried hurts more than being boiled....how the hell would I know?
Girls usually keep a lot of this kind of stuff to themselves and aren't consoled by anyone. We may tell some friends, but what would another 15 year old know? More girls (in the south anyways) grow up without father and grandfather than with, so they're not even an option.
We're seriously so used to hearing it that after a few years, we're not even shocked by it.
And if I'm saying something that any woman here doesn't understand or disagrees with, chime in anytime, because I really want to understand it from another point of view. |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2275
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 12:02 am: |
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renata: Again, i agree with you...how many times do I need to say this? As far as the interpersonal, as your examples demonstrate, it is the same. I've agreed with a gazillion times...
Regarding power relations, that is, at the structural level what a black man does and a white man does it is not the same.
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Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2276
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 12:04 am: |
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LOL! We are repeating ourselve...i think we are done! |
Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2011
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 12:11 am: |
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Another thing... if you think it's the same.
Do you know how it truly hurts deep inside to be called names by black men. NOT EVEN BECAUSE THEY CALL ME A NAME PER SE.....but because it's so COMMON for them to do so. Do you know how much it hurts to hear MORE THAN ONCE, MORE THAN TWICE what a ho or bytch you are by men you would THINK would have at least a little respect for you?
That's why it hurts...not because the word means anything different, but because we truly want your love more than anyone else's.....and we hear derogatory terms from you guys MORE than from anyone else. |
Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2012
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 12:21 am: |
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DAMN STRAIGHT YOU AGREE....
That's something else you can learn about women (me anyways).......if you don't agree with me, I'll beat you in the head until you do.
LOL |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2058
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 03:55 am: |
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"Do you know how it truly hurts deep inside to be called names by black men. NOT EVEN BECAUSE THEY CALL ME A NAME PER SE.....but because it's so COMMON for them to do so. Do you know how much it hurts to hear MORE THAN ONCE, MORE THAN TWICE what a ho or bytch you are by men you would THINK would have at least a little respect for you?"
Don't take it personal my dear. They're just playin'.......
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Chrishayden
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Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4118
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | |
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