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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 11:23 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

His ass should be next



"[Rappers] are not talking about no collegiate basketball girls who have made it to the next level in education and sports. We're talking about ho's that's in the 'hood that ain't doing sh--, that's trying to get a n---a for his money. These are two separate things. First of all, we ain't no old-ass white men that sit up on MSNBC."

http://michigan-state-football.aolsportsblog.com/2007/04/12/snoop-dogg-dont-compare-me-to-don-imus/
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Brownbeauty123
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 11:28 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He's been saying that for years.
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Brownbeauty123
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 11:31 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Matter of fact, all rappers use that very same excuse for calling black women "bald headed hos" & "nappy headed hos" in their music.
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Abm
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 11:35 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya: His ass should be next...


Why? Because he said "ho's", "sh*t" "n*gga"...or "old-a$$ white men"?
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Mzuri
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 11:40 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


If anyone should try to censor or cleanse the hip-hop/rap industry, they'll have many artists to deal with (I'd list them but I don't listen to much of that anymore). Snoop has been accepted into the mainstream pop culture and he will NOT be the first one that's targeted.

http://www.chrysler.com/plus/snoop/video.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjk02DLGIoA



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Yvettep
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 11:42 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Give the brother a break, Tonya. I am sure he reflects women in good light and positive positions in his pornographic films. (Well, maybe not the "good light" and "positions" that we may want, but I digress.)

Plus, he's having court troubles of his own right now, right? Prolly some "ho's that's in the 'hood" are responsible for those worries, no doubt.

Finally, the label he records for, Interscope, is owned by Universal Music Group, which--together with MSNBC--is an affiliate of Vivendi Universal. In other words, it is in his financial interest to get rid of Imus in order for his parent companies to quickly put this behind them and no lose any more ad revenue...
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Renata
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 11:49 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"First of all, we ain't no old-ass white men that sit up on MSNBC."

LOL.....yeah, cause we hos LOVE being called hos by black men. It just ain't right for anybody else.

BULLSHIT.
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Abm
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 11:49 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yvettep: "...the label he records for, Interscope, is owned by Universal Music Group, which--together with MSNBC--is an affiliate of Vivendi Universal. In other words, it is in his financial interest to get rid of Imus in order for his parent companies to quickly put this behind them and no lose any more ad revenue..."


HOTDAYAM!

I KNEW some of what I have been trying to spread around here over the years would eventually begin to catch on.
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Abm
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 11:52 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were he not a rich, famous rapper, what percentage of Black women would be concerned about what he says, much less have a gotdayam thing to do with him?
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Renata
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 11:56 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I still wouldn't have anything to do with him...what's his being rich or famous got to do with it?
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Abm
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 12:00 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's just interesting how because Snoop's rich/famous we're suppose to be especially concerned about his calling some women "ho's".
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Mzuri
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 12:13 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Ding Ding Ding - Idiot Alert. He's a PUBLIC FIGURE who has influence upon society. Like your daughters for instance.


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Enchanted
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 12:13 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

why are poverty striken disadvantage women automatically "ho's" Abm, because theyr powerless to protect their kids and defend themself from men like Snoop and you? that is it right? Did you see his video in Brazil about "beautfil" women but those were ho's! Why not call them "ho's" but call women he came from in the hood "ho's"??? Why is perm hair bw n*gg*r but not Snoop Abm? he is just as trifling as Imus so are you for pretending Snoops not talking about your daughters because he is and why do any women have to be called "ho's" Abm? whats the purpose? Your perm must be killing you brain cells HO
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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 12:16 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We gotta figure SOMETHING out because this rat bastard has got to GO!

I'm laughing but I'm DEAD SERIOUS.

Though I haven't listened to their music or watched their videos in a good long while, I kinda knew they were talking about us Sistahs "from the hood" with their "ho's" and "b*tches". But to actually hear him admit it this way...uh-uh, nah nigga…it’s time to go.
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Mzuri
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 12:25 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Tonya - Choose another fight because it ain't happening. There is no way on earth that anyone can censor the entertainment industry. If that were to ever occur then we'd also have to address nudity, violence, alcohol, smoking, etc. and ALL language that anyone MIGHT deem offensive. It's NOT gonna happen!


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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 12:38 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We won't be censoring nobody, not directly anyway. Just tell us what sponsors we have to boycott, right? I'm saying, can any of you researchers please post a thread with the sponsors and other information that will explain all of this?
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Abm
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 12:39 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay. I'm not going to defend everything that Snoop has done. Hell. Even I ain't got CAJONES that big. But let's at least consider what he expressed here:

"We're talking about ho's that's in the 'hood that ain't doing sh--, that's trying to get a n---a for his money."


He didn't say ALL Black women. He didn't say all poor Black women. He didn't say all poor Black women in the hood.

He 'appear' to be referring to a particular type of Black woman in the hood who's NOT doing anything for herself and is trying to scheme (perhaps sex) men into financially supporting them.
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Enchanted
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 12:57 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

why is that the ONLY woman they rap about nonstop Abm?
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Mzuri
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 01:00 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Tonya - Hip-Hop and rap music doesn't really have any sponsors, it's not advertiser driven - it is consumer driven. And these days folks don't even require studio time because they can make the music right on their computer. They make it and people pay for downloads or CDs. Television is another story.


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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 01:02 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sometimes we simply have to consider the source when someone makes a public statement. Snoop Dogg was just "keeping it real". And the record industry is just that; an industry. Artists are employees, their music is the product, and profit is dictated by supply and demand. The idea that white moguls are responsible for the proliferation of rap lyrucs is far-fetched. Nobody is forcing people to buy rap records. The only hope is that rappers will police themselves when it comes to the messages they send.
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Yukio
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 01:12 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm....I'm a bit conflicted on this one. On the one hand, Snoop and others DO have misogynist lyrics. And so, I often can't get into his lyrics, but the music [production], however, is hard to avoid. Thus, I don't buy his music.

But isn't he making a legitimate point [though I'm not sure if he is lying on himself]?

He says: "[Rappers] are not talking about no collegiate basketball girls who have made it to the next level in education and sports."

Important distinct, is it not? Then he says, "We're talking about ho's that's in the 'hood that ain't doing sh--, that's trying to get a n---a for his money." In other words, he is talkin about gold-diggers [though of course, I dont if he will not talk about man-hos].

Finally, he says: "First of all, we ain't no old-ass white men that sit up on MSNBC."

I think that statement is important, because he is making a distinction between the power he has, as a black man, and the power a white man has. ALso, I think, he is trying, perhaps unsuccessfully, to place it all in some context, which would be who Imus's audience is, and who Snoop's audience is, and the fact that while Snoop is popular and mainstream, he doesn't have the political power, support, etc...that Imus has, or any other white man on MSNBC.

Just some thoughts!


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Abm
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 01:14 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enchanted,

That's what they know. And it sells.

Also, I often think what's not being said is that the mostly WHITE male consumers of what Snoop does are using him to say about WHITE WOMEN what they can't quite as directly say.
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Abm
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 01:17 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yukio,

I'll bet most reasonable Black men got from what Snoop said all of what you eloquently describe.

While all of what the sistas got was his saying...Ho's.
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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 01:24 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mzuri, but the companies that people like Nelly and Snoopdogg work for DO have sponsors, right?
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Chrishayden
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 01:47 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"[Rappers] are not talking about no collegiate basketball girls who have made it to the next level in education and sports. We're talking about ho's that's in the 'hood that ain't doing sh--, that's trying to get a n---a for his money. These are two separate things. First of all, we ain't no old-ass white men that sit up on MSNBC."

(It kills me all these whoozits on here who were crying over Don Imus now looking for somebody black to kick.

Snoop Dogg is not on MSNBC or CBS radio. He is a fringe character. He won't lose no sponsors because he don't have any.

If Snoop Dogg, who has never presented himself as anything but today's version of Rudy Ray Moore, Red Foxx, Mom's Mabley, Pigmeat Markham or any other foul mouthed comedian, should be dropped

Then Imus deserves to lose his life.

Run and tell that to your white friends. If you have any.
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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 01:50 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"why is that the ONLY woman they rap about nonstop Abm?"

Because she's poor and voiceless and I think Don Imus should get his job back because that's exactly what he was offering to Black women in exchange for keeping his job. Who's holding the next "save Don Imus" march? Cuz y'all niggers don't hear me.

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Yvettep
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 02:03 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chris, the only reason why we're talking about Mr. Dogg is because he entered the fray with his comments posted above. Intersting that what seemed to get him riled up was not necessarily the insult to the young women, but the blame for it placed on rap. So really, his role was to defend rap. Like the network, he's protecting his "bottom line," too.

ABM, I got Yukio's point. Likely the other women on this board did, too. That doesn't mean we have to like the things Dogg and others say about women in some/much of their music. And it matters not one bit whether they are talking about me, a professional Black woman, or some woman "in the hood." Yes, "misogyny sells." As someone once said, "And so does crack."
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Mzuri
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 02:14 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Tonya - I'm not an insider to the music industry. The closest I ever got to that was I applied for a job at Capitol Records in Los Angeles back in the 80's and when they called me for the interview I was no longer interested (I could have been big like Diddy :-() I don't think that the rappers "work" for the recording companies. They are under contract. But even if Snoop didn't have a record company contract (I think Snoop has his own production/distribution company but I'm not sure) he could do his own thing and sell his music directly to the public (via the internet the same way that Prince has done). Plus he's related to Bootsy so there's no telling what sort of connections Snoop has.

Back to the big studios like BMG, Sony, Capitol, Warner, etc. They may have some advertisers somewhere along the way, but I believe that they get most of their money directly thru individual consumers via store sales and downloads. It would probably take a worldwide effort to get the music industry to change its tune.





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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 02:19 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tell em, Yvette! LOL.
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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 02:21 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for that inside info, Mzuri!
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Mzuri
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 02:27 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


I'm telling you, I could have been BIG like Diddy, if only I had gone to my interview at Capitol Records :-)


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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 02:44 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mzuri, thanks a million! I just did a little research on Sony, Viacom ect.

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Yukio
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 02:57 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yvettep: Well, there does need to be a difference made between callin a ho a ho, and a deadbeat dad a deadbeat dad; in each case, the description is based on the veracity of one's behavior. however, calling a black women a nappy headed ho because she is a black woman [again i embrace nappy hair] is another story.

Also, neither I nor ABM legitimized Snoop's lyrics. My other point, is about the question of power that Snoop implies.

While we like to state that white folk are the consumers is rap, this is only part of the truth. So do black people! We are a numerical minority and we are poorer than whites, so of course they comprise the majority of rap's consumers.

So what's my point? Well, the black people who listen to this music are black men and women...and those who grow up in the hood and their ears may be more attuned to Snoop's lyrics, then may not have the problem that many of us [you] have.

There are several reasons, there is the class element and the generational element--all shaping how they interpret the music and its meaning to them.

This may be mean that when Snoop calls a sista a 'ho,' the women who aren't know who he is talkin about in a very matter fact way! Even while our youth look hyper-sexualized, in dress and speech...they are youth doing youthful things! sometimes that means having sex and using drugs, and other times that means staying out past curfew! But they know how the hos are and the man-whores, playas, and the like....

And since they are young, they are not concerned about what white people, their parents, womanist, civil-rights leaders et al think about what they are do . . . LOL!, and often do not co-relate their present behavior w/their future career opportunities.

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Abm
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 03:12 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yawl don't listen to gangsta rap. You all hear or read about a certain part of it and then leverage it into endless diatribes about the evils of misogyny.

Anyone who's really listen to gangsta rap music knows that it's worst offense is NOT about what it describe of Black women. The very worst of it includes fantasies about Black men maiming and killing other Black MEN.

If you've listen to Snoop's music you know that in the very songs he calls a Black woman a b*tch he's usually advocating killing another Black MAN because of her.

Yet, most b*tch about his saying "b*tch".

The bare, straight truth is that it's much easier to rally support behind offenses committed against Black women than their are those involving Black men.

We're all conditioned to expect brothas to get fuhked over to the point where we don't even really have much thought about it. Or, worse, we defend the offender.

Example. Let's consider something ELSE Imus said. Where was all the flack and fallout when Imus called the almost entirely Black MALE New York Knicks a team of "chest-thumping pimps"?
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Tonya
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 03:14 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abm,

"I'll bet most reasonable Black men got from what Snoop said all of what you eloquently describe. While all of what the sistas got was his saying...Ho's."

We got what you said; some of us just aren’t buying it. Who is SNOOPDOGG to define ANYONE? Would you let him define YOU? Hell no. And look at how vague his "definition" is. What woman DOESN'T "try to scheme (perhaps sex)" her man into buying her things?--maybe all the time, maybe every now & then but that's her business and her man's. Maybe Snoop dog should just concentrate on not getting played. And who's to say what "doing for herself" really means? What if she's a stripper? Or what if she's at home caring for her common law husband and raising their 8 kids......What if she does for others?
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Abm
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 03:24 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tonya,

You sorta making my point. Snoop does NOT define anyone. He's just cleverly saying some sh*t on a record that a fairly high number of people enjoy listening to.

But he has every right to express himself as he wants to (including what he think of "hood ho's") and lawfully enjoy the fruits of what his talents produce.

What Snoop does has NO bearing on what I think of myself, of what I should do. He's just a clown or buffoon to me. Something I momentarily enjoy looking at and listening to before I go about the more serious matters and aspects of my life.

And that's all he really should be for the rest of us (save his family, friends and associates).

Sadly, we live in a world that makes of him more than should be made. Whatever real, enduring effect he has on our families and communities are less is fault and are really more a direct result and proof of the weaknesses of our families and communities.
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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 03:38 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rappers have popularized the word "ho", and introduced into the mainstream, and it is never a word that can be construed as a compliment. It is also a word that can be abused, and any female is at the mercy of any male who indiscriminately chooses to call her a 'ho. On the other hand, most epithets hurled at a male roll off his back, some of them even being considered a badge of honor. So the "ho" issued cannot be separated from the female issue. Since black females are the most devalued, they remain victims, and their victimizers are the ones who define them, - the ones who supply the words for others to use as insults.
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Yukio
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 05:33 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

cynique: ho has always been in the mainstream. we just hear it in music, videos, etc...and the like, so it seems like rappers put it on the map.

Lets not forget when I talkin about the english language...shit'd how else did Iago gets Othello to murder his beloved, but thru calling her a strumpet!?

But you are correct, there is a double standard, as I suggested above.
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Mony
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 05:57 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Snoopy dog looks like a Baffed out ho himself, albeit a rich one.
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Renata
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 06:25 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"I'll bet most reasonable Black men got from what Snoop said all of what you eloquently describe.

While all of what the sistas got was his saying...Ho's."

ABM, most reasonable black men will never be called a ho. Of course men don't get it, you're not being called out of your names.
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Renata
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 06:59 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It also says a lot that woman after woman is saying basically "we don't want ANYONE to call us a ho", and men still make excuses why it's OK for black men to think that of us.

The bottom line is that we don't want ANYONE to refer to us like that, not Imus, not Snoop Dogg, not ANYONE.....so whether the person calling us that came from our "hood" or was raised in a "hood" or has nappy hair himself or whatever is MOOT.
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Renata
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 07:01 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or ABM, just let me put this into perspective for you:

Would you feel better about your daughter being called a ho.....if the person lived just down the street from you versus out in the suburbs, or would you be just as pissed either way? Would it really matter the race, age, upbringing of the person who called her that?

Think about it.
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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 07:52 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What seems to be a sticking point, Yukio, is that like "n i g g e r" and "nigga", "whore" and "ho" have a different nuance. Of course the word "whore" has been around since biblical times. But the bastardized pronuncation of this word is relatively recent in the urban north and when pronouced "ho", it took on a different vibe after rappers made it common place.
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Yukio
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 08:46 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Renata: you speak of women and men has if we are so group conscious that as individuals we do not have independent thought. It is true, on the one hand, that there is certainly a double standard. On the other hand, not all men embrace men who are whorish.

Secondly, there are many women who are whorish, and their males and females friends say, "get yours!"

Cynique: well, i would say pimps made it common place. And the white johns know this....for black pimps had both white and black women....But again, I'm not embracing misogyny in anyway[that is not intentionally], i can't listen to many of these rappers lyrics, but black, male and female, listeners [depending on the generation] can tell the difference. They know who these rappers are talkin about, especially now, when you have rappers sounding like R&B artists, that is, talkin about love and giving to what ever...to their loved wife, children, etc...so that on the same record you have beee-otch this bee-otch that....yeah shorty, blah, blah, blah....

In other words, these rappers, even the nonpolitical ones, cover a range of themes and descriptions of black women...if you listen to Snoops' music, especially those produced by Pharrell...you are listening to, oftentimes, urban 21st century baby mama, baby father makin music!

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Renata
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 09:04 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yukio...what the hell are you talking about?

So I take it from your response when hos are mentioned, they're speaking of men?

Well, this is going to turn into a very different conversation, isn't it?

Why do you men put up with that shyt?

LOL
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Yukio
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 09:32 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In other words, when a brother cheats on his wife, he's not patted on the back...when he cheats on his girlfriend, he's not patted on the back...and when he's caught, it is often his boys who say before hand "you stupid man...leave that shit alone!"
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Yvettep
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 09:41 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You all are literary types on this board: Remember the reactions Black women writers were getting for a while regarding their depictions of Black men? Black men were saying these women were deomonizing them, were consistently portraying negative images of Black men, only the worse of Black men, etc...The writers would respond that they were writing from their own experiences...these depictions were not about *all* men, but based on the ones they had experiences with who were, in fact, liars, cheaters, rapists, batterers, etc...

Remember that? Am I off base with my own memory? If not, can we change tracks a little and talk about this as an analogy to the current situation? I do not have any preconceived notions about such a conversation but I am interested in what folks think...
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Renata
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 09:45 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And even THEN, he isn't called a ho.

And I'm not even talking about such a situation. When has a woman ever called you one...because she didn't think you dressed modestly enough...because you weren't interested in her...because you broke up with one girl and found another one in a short time period....I could go on
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Renata
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 09:51 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yvette, Seriously, I couldn't answer that because I really don't often read fiction. I like non-fiction, biographies, the classics, and spiritual/religious books.

To use that in this current situation, as a book, only the READER has to deal with the language. You don't walk up the street and hear it blaring out of windows. Even readers of the book don't call men by the characters in a book. Especially not at the rate that we're called hos.
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Yukio
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 10:52 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yvettep: yes, that is the debate in the early 80s, when black men criticized Alice Walker, Toni Morrison, and others.

That is certainly right. These authors were saying that black men, indeed, were misogynist, but not ALL black men. And, certainly, they were very clear about the difference the particular abuses of their own group and that of white folk...this is essentially my same argument.

I am not, in other words, applying a double standard, but am saying that these two actions--though seeming the same--are very different, with different consequences.
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Ntfs_encryption
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 04:51 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

'There is no way on earth that anyone can censor the entertainment industry."

Ya got that right. Let's get serious, too much money is at stake here. The entertainment power brokers have no connection or interest with good taste, concern for decency or the advancement of serious creative art. Their only concern is the sound of a coin falling inside a cash register. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS!

"If that were to ever occur then we'd also have to address nudity, violence, alcohol, smoking, etc. and ALL language that anyone MIGHT deem offensive."

Well, it's not going to happen! Why should it? Why would the entertainment mega moguls and recording industry drum majors sacrifice the cash cow of a billion dollar industry for the sake of something as meaningless and insignificant as misogynistic, violent, racist and anti-social music and imagery? The Coon Town thug hip-hop Negroes are making a financial killing with their mindless buffonery, misogyny, anti-social behavior and extolling of the worst of human nature. With the gracious blessings and shameless support of entertainment corporate executives, dog feces cloned black trash like Snoop Dogg (et al) are more than eager to act out their sordid pathology for dollars, a diamond grill and bigger bling. But as twisted and sad as it is, there is an insatiable public market and demand for the excrement of rappers and the entertainment aristocracy is going to see that the public get what it craves: Meaningless bullshit and trash packaged and marketed as music at any cost.

" It's NOT gonna happen!"

And that's the end of this subject.......

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Cynique
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 01:42 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don Imus is the mythological "Pandora in drag". He uttered 3 little words and the lid to the box containing the woes of the world opened just enough to dump out the racial ills infected by a "nappy-headed hos" virus. Now black women are indignant, white feminists are appalled, black opportunists are waxing supreme, black rappers are put on the defense, white TV honchos are doing a juggling act patronizing black folks while placating corporate defectors distancing themselves from controversy, all of this festering in a environment of a growing resentment among whites expecting forgivnance instead of vindictiveness. When the smoke is cleared, will Don Imus go down in history for turning out to be a catylyst for reform? Can a cranky old white bastard be what it took for righteous black men to step up and defend their women folk from the slings and arrows of villains who make them the target of insults? Huh?

Don't ask me cuz I dunno.
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Yukio
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 04:44 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique and Ntfs: LOL! Its rough out there for a pimp! While the integrity and dignity of black girls and women are empowered, momentarily at least, the man--"the powers that be"--will reproduce Imus in another guise, as We equate the actions of Snoop and 25 cent to the Man.
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Jmho
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 05:31 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ntfs_encryption wrote:
Well, it's not going to happen! Why should it? Why would the entertainment mega moguls and recording industry drum majors sacrifice the cash cow of a billion dollar industry for the sake of something as meaningless and insignificant as misogynistic, violent, racist and anti-social music and imagery?

Hopefully sales will continue to decline ...

Sales of rap music are declining as more are critical of its message
BY NEKESA MUMBI MOODY THE ASSOCIATED PRESS


NEW YORK -- Maybe it was the umpteenth coke-dealing anthem or soft-porn music video. Perhaps it was the preening antics that some call reminiscent of Stepin Fetchit.

The turning point is hard to pinpoint. But after 30 years of growing popularity, rap music is now struggling with an alarming sales decline and growing criticism from within about the culture's negative effect on society.

Rap insider Chuck Creekmur, who runs the leading Web site Allhiphop.com, says he got a message from a friend recently "asking me to hook her up with some Red Hot Chili Peppers because she said she's through with rap. A lot of people are sick of rap ... the negativity is just over the top now."

The rapper Nas, considered one of the greats, challenged the condition of the art form when he titled his latest album "Hip-Hop is Dead."

It's at least ailing, according to recent statistics: Though music sales are down overall, rap sales slid a whopping 21 percent from 2005 to 2006, and for the first time in 12 years no rap album was among the top 10 sellers of the year.

A recent study by the Black Youth Project showed a majority of youth think rap has too many violent images.

In a poll of black Americans by The Associated Press and AOL-Black Voices last year, 50 percent of respondents said hip-hop was a negative force in American society.

Nicole Duncan-Smith grew up on rap, worked in the rap industry for years and is married to a hip-hop producer. She still listens to rap, but says it no longer speaks to or for her.

She wrote the children's book "I Am Hip-Hop" partly to create something positive about rap for young children, including her 4-year-old daughter.

"I'm not removed from it, but I can't really tell the difference between Young Jeezy and Yung Joc. It's the same dumb stuff to me," says Duncan-Smith, 33. "I can't listen to that nonsense ... I can't listen to another black man talk about you don't come to the 'hood anymore and ghetto revivals ... I'm from the 'hood. How can you tell me you want to revive it? How about you want to change it? Rejuvenate it?"

Hip-hop seems to be increasingly blamed for a variety of social ills. Studies have attempted to link it to everything from teen drug use to increased sexual activity among young girls.

Even the mayhem that broke out in Las Vegas during last week's NBA All-Star Game was blamed on hip-hoppers.

"(NBA Commissioner) David Stern seriously needs to consider moving the event out of the country for the next couple of years in hopes that young, hip-hop hoodlums would find another event to terrorize," columnist Jason Whitlock, who is black, wrote on AOL.

While rap has been in essence pop music for years, and most rap consumers are white, some worry that the black community is suffering from hip-hop -- from the way America perceives blacks to the attitudes and images being adopted by black youth.

But the rapper David Banner derides the growing criticism as blacks joining America's attack on young black men who are only reflecting the crushing problems within their communities. Besides, he says, that's the kind of music America wants to hear.

"Look at the music that gets us popular -- 'Like a Pimp,' 'Dope Boy Fresh,'" he says, naming two of his hits.

"What makes it so difficult is to know that we need to be doing other things. But the truth is at least us talking about what we're talking about, we can bring certain things to the light," he says. "They want (black artists) to shuck and jive, but they don't want us to tell the real story because they're connected to it."

Criticism of hip-hop is certainly nothing new -- it's as much a part of the culture as the beats and rhymes.

Among the early accusations were that rap wasn't true music, its lyrics were too raw, its street message too polarizing. But they rarely came from the youthful audience itself.

"As people within the hip-hop generation get older, I think the criticism is increasing," says author Bakari Kitwana, who is currently part of a lecture tour titled "Does Hip-Hop Hate Women?"

"There was more of a tendency when we were younger to be more defensive of it," he adds.

During her '90s crusade criticizing rap for degrading women, the late black activist C. Dolores Tucker certainly had few allies within the hip-hop community, or even among young black women.

Backed by folks like conservative Republican William Bennett, Tucker was vilified within rap circles.

In retrospect, "many of us weren't listening," says Tracy Denean Sharpley-Whiting, a professor at Vanderbilt University and author of the new book "Pimps Up, Ho's Down: Hip-Hop's Hold On Young Black Women."

"She was onto something, but most of us said, 'They're not calling me a ',' they're not talking about me, they're talking about THOSE women.' But then it became clear that, you know what? Those women can be any women."

One rap fan, Bryan Hunt, made the searing documentary "Hip-Hop: Beyond Beats and Rhymes," which debuted on PBS this month. Hunt addresses the biggest criticisms of rap, from treatment of women to glorification of the gangsta lifestyle.

"I love hip-hop," Hunt, 36, says in the documentary. "I sometimes feel bad for criticizing hip-hop, but I want to get us men to take a look at ourselves."

Even dances that may seem innocuous are not above the fray.

Last summer, as the "Chicken Noodle Soup" song and accompanying dance became a sensation, Baltimore Sun pop critic Rashod D. Ollison mused that the dance -- demonstrated in the video by young people stomping wildly from side to side -- was part of the growing minstrelization of rap music.

"The music, dances and images in the video are clearly reminiscent of the era when pop culture reduced blacks to caricatures," he wrote.

Meanwhile, Creekmur says music labels have overfed the public on gangsta rap, obscuring artists who represent more positive and varied aspects of black life, like Talib Kweli, Common and Lupe Fiasco.

"It boils down to a complete lack of balance, and whenever there's a complete lack of balance, people are going to reject it, whether it's positive or negative," Creekmur says.

Yet Banner says there's a reason why acts like KRS-One and Public Enemy don't sell anymore. He recalled that even his own fans rebuffed positive songs he made -- like "Cadillac on 22s," about staying away from street life -- in favor of songs like "Like a Pimp."

"The American public had an opportunity to pick what they wanted from David Banner," he says. "I wish America would just be honest. America is sick. ... America loves violence and sex."


Last modified: March 01. 2007 12:00AM
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Tonya
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 06:45 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abm:


quote:

Tonya,

You sorta making my point. Snoop does NOT define anyone. He's just cleverly saying some sh*t on a record that a fairly high number of people enjoy listening to.

But he has every right to express himself as he wants to (including what he think of "hood ho's") and lawfully enjoy the fruits of what his talents produce.

What Snoop does has NO bearing on what I think of myself, of what I should do. He's just a clown or buffoon to me. Something I momentarily enjoy looking at and listening to before I go about the more serious matters and aspects of my life.

And that's all he really should be for the rest of us (save his family, friends and associates).

Sadly, we live in a world that makes of him more than should be made. Whatever real, enduring effect he has on our families and communities are less is fault and are really more a direct result and proof of the weaknesses of our families and communities.




ABM, everyone isn't as smart as you. This may seem absurd to some (tho I'm sure you knew this long before Imus revealed with his thoughts the attitudes of many in this country) but there are men and women--Black & white, young & old, educated & uneducated--that believe these images are true. If "the rest of us" were as smart as you are, these images wouldn’t be as lethal. But this isn't the case, most people aren't as smart, and perhaps THAT'S the sad part.
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Tonya
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 07:03 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...and by "images" I mean both the lyrics and the videos.
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Yukio
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 07:51 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think the article is interesting, but I heard the music industry in general is in trouble...also, this minstrel comments are sort of problematic.

On the one hand, we don't want people to think we are ho, clowns, etc...

On the other hand, to what degree should we allow others to dictate our behavior if we enjoy it and think that it is fun! Snoop and 50 cents is one thing..., and that little girl singing chicken noodle soup is another.

My issue, as it was before is, to what extent will we allow tight-ass black people control the content of our music, and at the same time respect our women, men, and ethnic group?

There has to be that balance..."Me personally," as we like to say, I have worked on excise the n-word out of my vocabulary...I have slipped a few times, but it is virtually out of my lexicon. But at the same time, as I listen to "conscious" rappers like Common, I get uncomfortable because he is homophobic, and when I want to share some of his message with them, then I'm like...but then the very next sentence he is say . . .

anyways, just some thoughts!
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Dahomeyahosi
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 09:46 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yvettep you brought up a very good analogy when discussing the response to some black male depictions in literature. I remember how Alice Walker was torn to shreds.

With regards to Snoop....it seems as if every breathe of air this man takes and exhales as he speak is wasted. It's a poor reflection of society that his music is popular. It is sad that he has children but even sadder than a woman brought herself low enough to marry him.
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Tonya
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 03:21 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Obama hits out at black rappers who degrade women

By Tim Shipman, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 11:54pm BST 14/04/2007

The man who hopes to become America's first black president has launched an outspoken attack on rap singers who use derogatory language about women.

Barack Obama told a crowd at a campaign rally in South Carolina that rap artists were "degrading their sisters", and added: "That doesn't inspire me".

The Democratic hopeful for the White House also compared the references to "bitches" and "hos" in rap music to the racist outburst last week which cost the country's most famous "shock jock" his job.

Radio talk show host Don Imus, who is white, was sacked after branding a female college basketball team "nappy-headed hos" - a term for black prostitutes with unkempt hair.

Sen Obama's comments are part of a growing backlash at the double standards in American public life that mean Mr Imus was fired, but black rappers like Snoop Dogg and Ludacris continue to cash in by using similar imagery.

They are also further evidence of Sen Obama's determination to align himself with the concerns of middle America. Last week, however, he came under fire for that very strategy, from black activists who said he was too slow to respond to the Imus affair.

While civil rights activist Al Sharpton toured the studios condemning Mr Imus, the senator from Illinois waited five days before making any public statement, and then pointedly refused to make it a racial issue.

It was only following a wave of public criticism of his caution, that he later joined the calls for Mr Imus to lose his job.

A California Democrat activist, who worked on the previous presidential campaigns of both Rev Mr Sharpton and Rev Jesse Jackson, told The Sunday Telegraph: "A lot of people of colour are uncomfortable with Barack Obama. He wants the kudos of being the first African American who could win the presidency, but he does not want to get there by becoming a leader who speaks to African-Americans."

Melissa Harris Lacewell, a professor of African-American studies at Princeton University, said: "Black people want to love Barack, but they will turn on him."

As the son of a recent African immigrant, Sen Obama cannot claim any link to slavery or the civil rights movement and is, therefore, not seen as "authentic" by many in the traditional black leadership.

The latest poll shows Democrat front-runner Hillary Clinton leading him by 50 per cent to 41 per cent among black voters.

Sen Obama's calculation, however, is that he has a greater chance of winning the presidency if he remains a candidate who happens to be black, rather than "the black candidate".

One European diplomat compared Sen Obama to Tony Blair: "Most Americans have moved on from the civil rights battles, in the same way that people in Britain have moved on from the union politics of the 1970s.

"Obama is a post-civil rights politician just as Blair was post-socialism. The problem he has is that many in the black hierarchy are still fighting the old battles."

Information appearing on telegraph.co.uk is the copyright of Telegraph Media Group Limited and must not be reproduced in any medium without licence. For the full copyright statement see Copyright

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/04/15/wrap15.xml
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Ntfs_encryption
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 04:31 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Don Imus is the mythological "Pandora in drag". He uttered 3 little words and the lid to the box containing the woes of the world opened just enough to dump out the racial ills infected by a "nappy-headed hos" virus. Now black women are indignant, white feminists are appalled, black opportunists are waxing supreme, black rappers are put on the defense, white TV honchos are doing a juggling act patronizing black folks while placating corporate defectors distancing themselves from controversy, all of this festering in a environment of a growing resentment among whites expecting forgivnance instead of vindictiveness."

Ms. Cynique: That was not only true but brilliant....!


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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm

Post Number: 9210
Registered: 04-2004

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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 10:38 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't recall the last time I've been called a ho. But I as a Black men have also been being tabbed with many other unwarranted labels.

Black men are very OFTEN accused of being criminals, molesters/rapists, pimps, drug dealers, lazy/shiftless, violent, etc. I could just as easy decry and blame Snoop and 50 for compelling other foks to presume the worst about Black men. But I don't. Because if you're fool enuff to think those dudes represent all or even most of Black men, then you've probably got OTHER problems that only the Good Lord will be able to help you resolve.

I tell my daughters the worst thing they can do is concern themselves about what some fool they don't even know or know anything about them say. That's a waste of their time and energy to be concerned about.

There ARE whorish, b*tch type women. And I don't think there should be any more special prohibition of someone citing such as there is, say, against calling an idiot and idiot or someone who cheats a cheater.

I say, again, if you want to blunt the violence and misogyny within hip-hop, you must confront the people and entities who finance, support and profit MOST from what Snoop and 50 do. That's Viacom, Sony, Vivendi, Universal, etc. Because THEY'RE the one's who enabled gangsta rap to become as potent as it is.

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