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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 7471
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 02:25 pm: | 
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http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/08/29/at_harvard_bl acks_perceive_blatant_culture_of_prejudice/?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed6 |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1503
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 11:04 pm: |
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Is that it?!
Poor babies...
On the list of things that need to be addressed this incident and other similiar ones within the hallowed halls of Havard University would be so far down the list it may as well be off it. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3166
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 12:15 pm: |
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Troy, IMO we should not separate things like this from things you presumably would have on such a list of truly important issues. This kind of thing happens at Harvard and other majority White institutions. The message that is sent when things like this happens is:
You do not belong here. You are not welcomed here. Despite our glossy promotional materials with 2.5 people of color in every shot, despite our anti discrimination statements, despite our diversity sensitivity training--we really don't want you here.
I know it is easy to say that Black students should buckle down, work even harder to prove folks wrong, let it slide off of them like water. But students--18, 19, 20, 21 year old young men and women--are human, and this kind of treatment can wear them down. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12830
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 03:50 pm: |
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To me, this is an example of the latent racism that is indigenous to America, a reality that could play itself out when white people go into a voting booth and have to choose between a black man or a white one. |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1507
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 03:53 pm: |
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Yvettep, if you like, you can go ahead and group the "problem" of students being challenged to prove they belong on Harvard's campus along with, say, an education system that has failed generations of inner city youths.
So some Black students don't feel "welcomed" with open arms from the some at Harvard... In the scheme of things I say big freaking deal -- seriously.
What are we talking about here; the temporary discomfort of some students that have the intellectual and financial wherewithal to attend perhaps the most prestigious university on the planet.
Perhaps this will help prepare the children for the "real world". |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3168
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 04:25 pm: |
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And, Troy, what motivation will inner city youth have, say given some hypothetical complete betterment of their education, if they know that even if they can reach the halls of Harvard they will still not be good enough?
It is all connected.
In the book about the murdered young man from the A Better Chance program enabling inner city kids to attend elite private day schools (I am blanking on the title) there was a revealing story that has stayed with me to this day. One of the participants, a young woman, I think, relates a dream she had. In the dream, she finds herself the only African American at the starting gates of a foot race that is about to begin. SHe looks down and sees that she only has one leg. SHe tries to bring this fact to the attention of the racing officicials, "Wait, stop, I can't race: I only have one leg!" But they discount her claims, saying that "you people" are always whining about something.
So she resigns to go through with the race, even though she has a rat's boody's chance of winning.
But when the race is over, lo and behold, she has come in first. As she is celebrating at the finish line, the racing officials protest her win. "That's impossible," they say. "You must have cheated or something: You only have one leg"...
This story reminds me of the self-doubt and external critique thant many Blacks in elite institutions face. To me this is not a "temporary discomfort," as many students face it on a much more regular basis. This, too, is a "failing" of our system--a system that is failing on both ends (with the poorest/least prepared and the wealthiest/most prepared) is still failing. |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1508
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 04:47 pm: |
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Yvettep, it may be "connected" but it is not as important...
You see, despite the "self-doubt and external critique", those kids have an excellent chance, armed with that Harvard degree, of doing far better than 99.9999% of everyone else on the planet.
I don't consider the system "failing" a Black person that is ultimately admitted to Harvard. Of course the system is failing others -- but not those folks.
Most rich white people can't get into Harvard.
Besides if my Brothers and Sisters feel so "unwelcomed" at Harvard they can always go to Morehouse or Spelman...
....oh I forgot the white man's ice is colder.
Let me know when people start leaving Harvard, in droves, because the conditiions there are so intolerable. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3170
Registered: 01-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 06:39 pm: |
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those kids have an excellent chance, armed with that Harvard degree, of doing far better than 99.9999% of everyone else on the planet.
True. (At least, for those who make it through and thus are so armed.) By that measure, an inner city American child who fails in the public school system still has a better life than many folks on the planet. Any one of us, the same thing. What use are such comparisons?
To me, if one can acknowledge that there is a connection between disparities at the top and bottom, then we can figure out solutions--many that might be common, and many that will be unique to each situation. Addressing educational challenges is not, IMO, a zero sum game where only one issue can be addressed at one time and any one issue must be addressed before others.
You mentioned HBIs: I think we already are seeing an upswing in interest adn enrollment at some institutions. I think this is a very good thing. But I do not understand what a mass exodus from majority white elite institutions to majority Black (also elite) institutions would accomplish in the long run. Should we give up on having a presence on these campuses? Is "love it (and, by extension, shut up about it), or leave it" really the only option? |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3171
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 08:27 am: |
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One more thing--In the end I do not think any of this matters. Hopefully there are enough feet on the ground trying to make the situation better, that everyone can help in whatever capacity that they see fit. I've been involved on several fronts--in the Head Start classroom in the 'hood and in the undergrad/graduate school context at majority White and in an associates degree granting setting on an overseas Army base.
Education is education and we need to be doing a better job of getting ours.
I'm hoping that November will bring real hope to start seeing more progress in this matter.
BTW, Troy, don't be dissing Black Ivies--some of my best friends have graduated from majority White Ivy League universities... (*cough*ferociouskitty*cough* LOL) |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3404
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 04:29 pm: |
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'Is that it?!
Poor babies...
On the list of things that need to be addressed this incident and other similiar ones within the hallowed halls of Havard University would be so far down the list it may as well be off it."
Thank you bro Troy. I don't condone nor will I excuse the incident with the campus police. But when you consider the types of racist incidents that do happen, this one is not very dynamic and compelling. I'm sorry folks, but I can't get excited about it. When considering the violence and craven acts of overt racism black students faced in the fifties and sixties during the integration of previously all white schools, this incident does not compare. Yes, this is not 1962 and students should not face incidents like this. I know this. This we can agree with. But was anyone arrested? Beaten or ruffed up by the police? Where black effigies burned? Are black students at Harvard routinely jeered and spit on by white students? Is there a pattern of discrimination with grades by university professors? Are black students the victims of random race motivated beatings or violence? Are KKK crosses being burned on the lawns and swastikas being painted on the black students dorm rooms or cars? These are serious issues of undeniable racism that black students had to face at traditionally white schools at one time. THIS IS NOT THE CASE TODAY.
I'm sure there are bigots who feel they don't belong at Harvard because of affirmative action (which may or may not be true) or some kind of minority help program. But the bottom line is these students are at one of the most prestigious schools in the world. Considering the history of college racism, these instances are minor and pale compared to the violence and open racist hostility black students and athletes once faced...IMO. |
Crystal
Veteran Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 434
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 05:54 pm: |
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Well Ntfs, that was then and this is now. If this is the racism they/we face now then it should be addressed. Just because things are better doesn’t mean they are good. I’m sure those students had to work hard to get there and to be routinely treated like they don’t belong must be hurtful. Sometimes [most times?] an emotional hurt is more damaging than a physical hurt and just saying "get over it" doesn't work. |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1514
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 08:50 pm: |
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Yvettep, don't get caught up on my inner city school example. It was the first thing that popped into my head when I thought of more pressing issues. I could have mentioned Black male incarceration rates or the high rate at which Black women are contracting HIV.
But come on what are we really talking about here: Campus security, acting on information provided by another student, basically asked to check the IDs of some kids playing frizbee on the quad. Persumably the students flashed their badges and we allowed to continue.
Should the cops have ingnored the student's report. When they arrived on the scene should they have not confirmed that the kids were students.
What, campus police can't check the ID's of Black students without being called racist?! Please.
I'm not dissing Harvard or it's students. earlier in the year I sat on a panel sponsored by Harvard Business School's African American Student Union (http://www.hbsaasu.com/custpage.cfm/frm/15007/sec_id/15007#news3292) and I was proud to do it.
I'm been on the campus of every Ivy league school in this country and many of the major private and state universities and many HBCUs as well. I'm not dissing any place trying to better folk...
At the end of the day Yvettep keep doing what you are doing -- that is what is important.
I just don't want to hear about you on some picket line protesting harvard's security. Al Shaprton would not even get involved in this -- seriously.
Cyrstal, actually things ARE good for those Black Havard students. Relatively speaking, it actually does not get much better -- for anyone. If they are claiming they are emotionally hurt as a result of attending Harvard. Let'em step out in the real world for about 5 minutes...
NTFS, I'm glad someone feels me around here ;-) |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 444
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 12:46 am: |
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Yvette, thanks for having my Black-Ivy back, lol. But having had that experience, I recognize the relativity issue. I'm not surprised that the reaction from some to the Harvard students is "Cry me a Charles River" (I couldn't resist!). I got to go to Yale, and in exchange, I'll forever face stupid jokes about golf lessons, accusations of snobbery, and attitudes like Troy's. Really, it doesn't faze me. My education and what it has afforded me was more than worth it. I feel that all Ivy Leaguers--black and white--should be more aware of their privilege.
Just like anyone else, those Harvard students will have their allies and their...non-allies. Remember the Spelman women who protested Nelly's coming to their campus, even though it was for a good cause (raising $ for sickle cell anemia, I think?). Some people sided with the students, some didn't. And black men and women on both sides of the issue felt, "How could you NOT see it my way? Isn't it obvious?" Obvious that Nelly's "art" denigrates women. Or, obvious that Nelly had first amendment rights. Or, obvious that the cause was more important than Nelly's music.
So it's not a Ivy thing; it's a life thing. The important thing is that students advocate and agitate for what they believe in, regardless of who doesn't support them. Why should they care that Troy and others don't see what the big deal is? Kudos to them for pursuing what they view as justice and progress without 100% support from "the" black community. That is certainly what awaits them in the real world. See Obama, Barack.
Another reason I don't feel that it's an Ivy vs. non-Ivy issue is that I see what happens on my Yale Black Alum e-list. We are updated on current campus happenings including racist incidents, and I know that only a small fraction of us (and I should say "them" because I'm not in that fraction) get involved in any substantive way. I can't speak for the others, but I assume that the students will fight the fight that we did--it's just on different fronts now. We had Naples Pizza and drama at the law school; later classes have racist cartoons in the Yale Daily News...and the beat goes on. But I also think it's great when alums do actively support the current students.
<i>And, Troy, what motivation will inner city youth have, say given some hypothetical complete betterment of their education, if they know that even if they can reach the halls of Harvard they will still not be good enough? <i>
I was once that "inner city youth", and I went to Yale EXPECTING to find a racist in every classroom and dormroom, lol. I rode Amtrak from Florida to New Haven reading a copy of The Autobiography of Malcolm X and echoes of my childhood friends saying, "Don't turn white!" So, if I were a betting woman, I'd say that a kid from the school of hard knocks would not expect to find a level playing field at a majority white institution. Presumably, they are smart kids, and as such, they would know that racism is everywhere. Even Harvard. But I do believe they are right to insist that the university offer them the same protections and access as all the other students, including freedom from harassment.
Not saying that this is what the students at Harvard were doing, but I have observed some black students at Ivies blowing incidents out of proportion because they think that being able to cry racism legitimizes them as "authentically black". Remember, we're not always or even mostly talking about "inner city youth" in these situations. More than a few of these students come from prep schools, this is not their first time at a majority white educational institution, and/or they likely have been called "Oreo" at some point pre-college. College is an opportunity to prove and/or re-invent themselves. Some of the most rabid faux-black-nationalist black students I encountered at Yale--the ones who questioned everyone's "blackness"--were kids from majority white high schools.
The Naples Pizza incident I referenced...too many details to go into here, but it resulted in an organized protest outside of the pizza place and a boycott. "Don't Eat the Racist Pizza." This was 1990 and "Do the Right Thing" was fresh in everyone's mind. I remember telling my mom and grandmother about it, and they pretty much shrugged. Given the context of their lives (i.e., dealing with racist who didn't bother to deny their racism; Jim Crow) our little racist pizza protest didn't really register. I couldn't fault them for that.
Besides if my Brothers and Sisters feel so "unwelcomed" at Harvard they can always go to Morehouse or Spelman...
....oh I forgot the white man's ice is colder.
Troy, I believe the above can be reasonably construed as you dissing black Ivies. The statement implies that blacks are at these schools because they think the "white man's education" is better. Or perhaps I misunderstood you?
Even if it is a diss, as I said...I'm a duck and that puddle over there is the water off my back. ;-) |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1131
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 02:35 am: |
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THAT's WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!!
Two sista's up in here doing it. Man ...Kitty & Yvette got me up in here with pom-poms in my hands. I felt like I was watching a protest movie and "the Man" was named Troy ....ouuuuweeeee ....I love my sistas.
Now don't get me wrong ...Troy IMO, has been holding his own ....yes sir ...his Trump Card, which holds a lot of weight, is his basic statement of "get over it" ..."it ain't no big thang in the game of life" ..."stop crying over the little stuff" ....and then he threw in a little personal stuff to show he wasn't just talking as an outsider ... when he came around the back with ... "oh I forgot the white man's ice is colder" I knew he was in the game ....and the ladies went ballistic ....they leaped on that one. But hey, this has been a top rate debate ....I say 5 stars ....yep ... good reading!
Yvette couldn't sleep ....I knew she was in it to win it when she did the double-up post thang. You know the old ....and another thing *LOL*.
Crystal even popped in to give support but Troy has been holding it down like Dolamite ....okay, Shaft for the "younger crowd".
CLASSIC POSTS ....with class! |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1517
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 11:05 am: |
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Ferociouskitty, you may be a duck but the tone, depth and spirit of your last post suggest you may not be as ducky as you say...
If you interpreted my statements as a diss you certainly misunderstood me or are overly sensitive. But in a forum like this that is understandable.
I was on Yale's campus two weekends ago. I was showing my daugthers the school. I was explained to them how the campus setup was very similair to Oxford's. It apparently was the weekend freshment were moving in so it was an interesting time to be on the campus.
I said I was proud to speak to a room full of current and prospective Black Havard MBA's. I have also taken my daughters to Harvard's campus as well. I have nothing against Black Ivy league students -- unless they start acting like babies...
The apparent overreaction to the incident on Harvard Yard is not limited to the kids at Harvard. All Black people exhibit this trait at some point on another. It is part of the psychosis of being Black in America.
White folks don't have to constantly question the motivation of police or educators. White folks never have their credentials, not matter how impressive, questioned by others. White folks can just be, Black folks are under constant pressure that White folks will never really understand...
At some point Blacks, if they are tuly going to be free as white people in this country have to begin to believe that they are indeed truly free.
Yvettep, Ferociouskitty I'm sorry but the article Tonya posted is just an example of folks fanning the flames of racism and taking our focus off more important things like graduating. It is curious Tonya has not commented.
When Barack wins the presidency, there will be Black people who will not see his election as one of progress in this country. No they will figure out ways to make that win fit their backward stereotype. They'll cry he is half white or the white man's lackey -- they'll see it for everything but the progress that it is.
I hate to see the Havard students diminish the progress they represent, for all of us, because campus security was checking ids. |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1133
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 11:38 am: |
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I feel like the announcer for AND 1 Basketball ......OOHHH BAAABY!
Troy is sooooo smooth, I told you he was in the game. That last post may have closed the door ...I don't know if the girls can come back from THAT ...how can you argue against anything he said? But of course the women have skills and I know they will not go down without a fight.
Troy dropped that gentlemans approach on them but wanted them to know he's not soft ....he threw in "unless they start acting like babies" ...he went back to the root of his arguement ..."don't get it twisted"
He gut shot Kitty right out of the gate.
He even tossed Tonya's name on the floor ....like, is that all yawl got.
The man is in the house and his name IS Troy.
I don't know if the sistas can shake this one. The boy is bad! |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 446
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 12:04 pm: |
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Ferociouskitty, you may be a duck but the tone, depth and spirit of your last post suggest you may not be as ducky as you say...
I would agree with you if I had spent that effort rallying the Harvard students or disagreeing with you, but I did not.
The spirit of my post, as I intended it, fell somewhere between where you and Yvette fall on this issue.
If you interpreted my statements as a diss you certainly misunderstood me or are overly sensitive. But in a forum like this that is understandable.
I hope my post established me as not overly sensitive with you on this subject. In fact, I agreed in spirit with you more than I did Yvette. Perhaps that was not clear. My bad.
And yes, I suppose I misunderstood you. That's why I asked the question. But perhaps you have misunderstood me as well. I didn't feel personally dissed by what you said because the shoe didn't fit.
But...if your implication was that blacks choose these schools because they think the white man's ice is colder, that's simply not accurate for all involved, it's a common accusation, and I could see why Yvette may have considered that a diss. You came back and said that you weren't dissing, so I chimed in that a reasonable person might construe your words that way. Sounds like you may have meant something else that I still don't get. No biggie. It's all good, Brother Troy. ;-) |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1520
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 12:54 pm: |
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Carey you are too much. If I need a hype man I know where to go!
FK, was being sarcastic (OK maybe a little mean spirited) with my "....oh I forgot the white man's ice is colder.". I know sarcasm does not translate well online, but I figured I could get away it...
Basically what I was trying to say is that if students found Harvard so horrible; they have other options where they do not have to worry about racial prejudice -- like an HBCU.
But of course they will stay at Harvard because of the tremendous benefits Harvard and the degree offers -- despite the perceptions of Harvards racial intolerance.
My Sister, Ferociouskitty, of course it is all good. It was never anything other than that.
Peace |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1135
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 01:23 pm: |
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Ohhhh yeah ...sweet drops of bliss.
It appears we are at the summit ...both sides have given each other their respectful props.
It's all good!!!
Thumper's Corner has again witnessed a tremendous-epic battle ...Ali vs Frasier ...Hearns vs Sugar Ray Leonard ....Tyson vs Holyfield ....Troy (The Harlem bomber) vs The Black Pussycats ...Yvette,Ferociouskitty,(Glass Jaw) Crystal ... managed by Tuff Tonya
Until next time.....
Carey
Carey |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 447
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 02:03 pm: |
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Wow, Troy...*usually* I'm adept at detecting sarcasm online, but that one totally got by me. Thanks for clarifying.
And I agree...Flavor Flav had nothing on Carey. But I was about to call him the Howard Cosell of AALBC! And that was BEFORE I looked up just now and saw his boxing analogy! ;-) |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 7477
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 03:14 pm: |
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Cry racism too many times and real grievances are seen as whining. I'm sure these Harvard students mean well, but they are hurting…not helping…the Black community. Frivolous charges like theirs help to deem egregious acts of racism and inequality unimportant. ... I feel the same about all "racial profiling" claims in fact, except when they expose clear barriers to wealth or advancement and opportunity, or when they show how someone's civil rights have been violated. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3410
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 03:25 pm: |
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”Well Ntfs, that was then and this is now. If this is the racism they/we face now then it should be addressed.”
I believe I said that. I also said I did not condone nor excuse any racially motivated behavior.
”Just because things are better doesn’t mean they are good.”
Agreed. But I saw nothing of a serious nature that would prevent these young people from getting an education from one of the top rated schools in the world.
”I’m sure those students had to work hard to get there and to be routinely treated like they don’t belong must be hurtful.”
Of course. And that is why they have an obligation to show the nay sayer bigots how wrong they are.
”Sometimes [most times?] an emotional hurt is more damaging than a physical hurt and just saying "get over it" doesn't work.”
Uh huh and just like I said before, the nature of their complaints pales when compared to the conditions blacks had to face before. My point is this, no -they should not have to face racial profiling in 2008. But this is America and although it is not the same as it was in 1970, it still exists (racial stereotyping). Why do you think we have a Republican party? But these students issues are minor when compared to racial issues in a historical context. Doesn’t justify what is happening now but it doesn’t exactly set off the lynching alarms either…..IMO. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3411
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 03:26 pm: |
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"Cry racism too many times and real grievances are seen as whining. I'm sure these Harvard students mean well, but they are hurting…not helping…the Black community. Frivolous charges like theirs.......clear barriers to wealth or advancement and opportunity, or when they show how someone's civil rights have been violated."
Good point. I totally agree...... |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 7479
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 05:06 pm: |
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I just skimmed through this thread and some of you people are really twisted and paranoid. Just because I haven't responded shouldn't be taken to mean I don't appreciate the importance of an education. That's nonsense. There is a reason why I don't respond to every thread, and in a sense it does coincide with my opinion of SOME educated Black folk, but it has nothing to do with my views on a particular subject. Only when I'm bored do I skim through certain threads. And if the original post is about something I like, I'll leave a comment. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 7482
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 07:45 pm: |
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(My bad...I meant to writein my other post, "...help others to deem egregious acts of racism and inequality unimportant.")
________
Update:
Harvard cop fights racial profiling charge
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1117108
Harvard University police officer Theresa McAuliffe has spent a decade teaching self-defense to women and patrolling the Cambridge school’s hallowed grounds but now may lose her job because she’s been accused of racial profiling.
“I’m shocked,” McAuliffe said of a Boston teen’s race-based complaint against her and a male officer. “Very disheartened. I love my job. I love working at Harvard.”
McAuliffe and the other officer, whose name has not been released, are on paid administrative leave but face a disciplinary hearing at which they could be fired. The pair are accused of racial profiling for an Aug. 8 incident in which they were called to a report of a man stealing a bike.
The pair went to a bike rack on campus where they found a black teenager cutting a lock off a bicycle. The officers later learned the bike belonged to the teen and that he was cutting the lock off because his key broke.
The teen has since complained that he was verbally abused by the officers and says McAuliffe pointed her gun at him.
A Braintree mother of three, McAuliffe admits she and her colleague used “authoritative voices,” but denies pointing her sidearm at the teen. She said she had her hand on her gun and unlocked it from its safety holster in case she had to use it.
“I had it pushed forward so if I needed it it was ready,” she said. “When you can’t see their hands or their face, you don’t know what they have. You have to assume they have a weapon.”
The teen, who turned out to be a summer intern, had his back to the officers when they arrived, and she says she followed standard police procedure for dealing with a possible crime in progress. Once she figured out what was going on, she says she took her gun out, reset the safety, put it back in the holster and sent the student on his way.
The incident is the latest example of racial tension at Harvard, where school officials have formed a panel - headed by former Suffolk District Attorney Ralph Martin - to investigate race relations on campus.
In 2007, a black student group alleged they were harassed by police during a barbecue.
McAuliffe’s attorney, Tim Burke of Needham, said his client has been made into a “scapegoat” by the college.
“They’re suggesting there was racial motivation behind this situation and nothing could be further from the truth,” Burke said.
Harvard spokesman Joe Wrinn said the investigation into the student’s complaint is ongoing.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2008/09/harvard_police.html?p1=We ll_MostPop_Emailed5 Harvard police officer says she is a scapegoat in bias inquiry |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1138
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 10:05 pm: |
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Hello ladies and gentlemen ...the fans refuse to go home ...Troy has taken a bow and Kitty has removed her gloves but they still want more ...There seems to be a protest .....yes, Tonya ....the manager for the Black Pussycats has cried foul ....although she didn't say names she made it clear she was not pleased. I doubt if this new undercard will have the same excitement of the previous Rumble-Stumble-In-Thumper's-Jungle... How could it ...one of the combatant has failed the first rule ....there's no crying in Thumper's Jungle.
But my coffee is ready and my mike is Q'd ...this could well be the Rumble In Thumper's Jungle IV
Ntfs has his mouth piece in place ....he's working up a sweat ....the man is hungry.
Tonya is looking around for help ...Wait, Thumper has called her away ...something about Black Republicans ... This could be a big one *LOL*! |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3173
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 07, 2008 - 07:11 pm: |
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My understanding was that the original article used the one situation as a n example of what some folks on the campus perceive as a "culture of prejudice." It is easy to focus on that incident, say "no big deal," and miss the fact that for the people involved this represents but one in a list of incidents.
Clearly we here are not changing each others' minds about this. But it is interesting that some points of the conversation seem to have moved from "I personally think this is not big deal" to expressions of some objective measure of no-big-dealness. That is troubling to me, as I always am suspicious of what I perceive to be the "Negro police," deciding what is Black enough or blatant enough to be deemed important--even for the people directly experiencing it.
Well, stalemate here I guess.
FK, I agree it is not just an Ivy thing. Saying it is just a "life thing" is ignoring, IMO, the unique situation of colleges and the environments they are in. Yes, it is more than an elite institution thing: You will see these kinds of "town-gown" tensions in college towns all over the country. In many cases, the folks who attend the college are more privileged than the folks who staff the college in positions like financial aid clerks, food service personnel, and yes--campus police. That makes the climate ripe for resentments and misunderstandings on all sides, some of it warranted and some of it not (again, on all sides).
But add to this that we are specifically talking about the Metro Boston area and I believe the situation is not directly comparable to some other campuses. Now granted, my years in the area overlapped with some...unique incidents in the history of Boston race relations (e.g., Ronald Reagan in the White House, Larry Bird on the court, and the Charles Stuart murder case in the news). But normal town-gown troubles, adding race into the mix, at a particularly elite institution, in Boston makes for a very interesting mix. I just would not dismiss these students' perceptions as easily as some here seem to have. And nowhere did I (or the students involved) suggest that Reverends Jackson and Sharpton and whatnot be called in. Sounds like they are handling things themselves.
But again, different strokes--and views--for different folks.. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3174
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 07, 2008 - 07:16 pm: |
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the article Tonya posted is just an example of folks fanning the flames of racism and taking our focus off more important things like graduating
Now, Troy--we Blacks are pretty sharp, intelligent folks. Surely we can attend to more than one thing at a time, yes? Like, we can read books for work and great books we read about on T'sC and aalbc.com?  |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1143
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 08, 2008 - 11:34 am: |
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Yvette wrote: "Clearly we here are not changing each others' minds about this. But it is interesting that some points of the conversation seem to have moved from "I personally think this is not big deal" to expressions of some objective measure of no-big-dealness. That is troubling to me, as I always am suspicious of what I perceive to be the "Negro police," deciding what is Black enough or blatant enough to be deemed important--even for the people directly experiencing it".
Yvette, even though I've injected some humor into the discussion I must say you've done a fantastic job of keeping an eye on the main issue ...your above post illustrates that.
Your "no-big-dealness" and "Negro police" spoke volumes. You've done me proud, I knew my silliness wasn't going to imped your voice.
Thank You!
A person can learn a little something from you. |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1144
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 08, 2008 - 11:57 am: |
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BTW Yvette, I asked Kitty this same question ...do you have any friends *lol* ...I mean, they don't have to be ...you know, all that ...heck, witty will do ...intelligent is good ...good smile and a sense of humor would be great ....I can even ride with a little plumpness (fat even) ...you know, like you ...wait, they didn't sound right *lol*.
Anyway, look around ... there has got to be a few Phd's (or cooks)that wouldn't mind going for a ride. Heck, I might even pop for a coke and french fries ...yes sir...make'em feel like a queen. |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1164
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 04:59 pm: |
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**Hands in the air ...head cocked back ...tilted slightly to the left**
What ...a brotha ain't good enough for your friends *lol*? |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1527
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 07:55 am: |
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Yeah this is more of the same nonesense.
It seems all the parties can agree to is that a bike lock was being removed. If police observe someone breaking a lock off a bike I would expect them to challenge that perosn because they could, of course, be stealing the bike.
Now we don't know if the police woman actually drew her weapon. The intern accuses the police officer aiming her pistol at he, purportedly because he is black and the officer is a white racist.
The cop says she never drew her gun, but was prepared to do so.
Of course if you chain a series of "incidents" like this together, one might conclude that Harvard 2008 is worse than University of Mississippi during the Jim Crow era.
The media is feeding on these events and those of us who cry racism and at every single slight, perceived or actual, by a white person uses these events to support our beliefs.
To paraphrase Amiri Baraka; I used to think all white people were devils until I met some Black devils.
When a Black person mistreats you, you can't conveniently chalk it up to racism and them assume all other Blacks are racist. You look at that Black person as an individual and treat them accordingly.
If a individual white person mistreats you why don't we treat them as individuals too? Why does the "perceived" slight by a single white person have to be built up into a "culture of racism"?
Does anyone here seriously believe that Harvard University is truly fostering a "culture of racism" today?
If police can't challange black people breaking locks off bike, without being accused racism, what you'll even up with are more stolen bikes. |
Crystal
Veteran Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 436
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 02:11 pm: |
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“Does anyone here seriously believe that Harvard University is truly fostering a culture of racism today?”
Hell Yes! OK, maybe the administration is not “fostering” racism but it’s so inherent in our culture that I’d be surprised to not find it there too. College campuses are just a small snapshot of our culture at large. And it’s not just a matter of individual v. individual. The original article lists several other incidents of racism the students have run into. But it’s only when they and their supporters react to the racism that it makes news. I work on the campus of a major university on the other side of the country and I can tell you that racism is alive and well on college campuses. Does that stop me from doing my job and getting paid? No. And it won’t stop those students from getting their degrees either. I’m happy to see them sticking up for themselves while they do it.
And we can’t run our lives by what may show up on the media either. These kids must have done some good things in their lives to even be at Harvard but the media didn’t have anything to say about them then. Not until something negative happens are the media even interested. We can’t worry about what the white media will do because they have proven what they will do time and time again.
I understand what you guys are saying about not crying wolf but if you KNOW there’s a real wolf in the area and that wolf is constantly biting at your ankles while you’re running up the hill it will slow you down and you have to try and chase him away so you and those around you can get to where you’re going. The wolf is really there folks and these students shouldn’t be dismissed for pointing him out as they continue on their way up the hill. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12859
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 03:38 pm: |
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Well said, Crystal. |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1167
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 07:53 pm: |
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Gosh ...Crystal, I didn't know you had that in you ...that was a pretty strong rebuttal ...in fact very good. The analogy of "crying wolf" vividly supported your position ...it's not crying wolf ...as the phrase goes ...if the wolf is in the room ...am going to steal that one
It looks like Troy thought he'd catch the women sleeping but he must have forgot about the hearts and soul-ger of black women. Kitty took a small break after handing the baton to Yvette ...Yvette took a day off but came back stronger than ever ... Crystal was rested and brought it home ...great stuff. Now the question is ...will Troy raise the white flag? ...I have my doubts ...well, this is his house and he is old school ...and the old "Man" and his house thang might not let him sleep ...my money is on Troy ...I am telling you ...I've watched the man work and he ain't NO slouch ...And ...AND ...this is his house!
There are some obvious questions the ladies laid on the table ...how can another tell "us" what is important ...and for those going through a storm ...how can anyone tell them how it feels and what lasting effects it may have on the individual. Crystal dropped a bit of news that will be hard to cast aside or ignor ...she said she WORKS on a college campus ...ooouuu weeee ...not dat there ain't crying wolf.
Again, Troy's a gamer ...we wait...
Carey
Carey |
Disciple724
Regular Poster
Username: Disciple724
Post Number: 90
Registered: 07-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 08:11 pm: |
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Troy, did you major in economic? I noticed on your blog that you listed it as one of your hobbies? |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1528
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 11:36 am: |
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Crystal an “Hell Yes!” followed by a “OK, maybe the administration is not fostering racism” does no sound like you are too convinced about the Harvard's racism. Then you say it is "so inherent in our culture" (a statement I don't agree with) that effectively it must be the same at Harvard. That, despite the endorsement by my sage Cynique, is illogocal.
Nor does the fact that you feel your campus is racist, mean that Harvard must therefore be racist too.
Again, just because the newspaper lists the incidents as racist does not make them racist. The newspaper, itself, is probably more racist than those being accused.
Cyrstal, the vast majority of white people are just trying to make it through their day to day lives. They want security, food, some level of comfort and to provide for their children. They are not sitting around scheming on ways ways to put and keep Black folks down.
The large white support of Barack should be indicative of this.
Haven't you ever had a bad day which resulted in the next person you saw catching it. Maybe you were unduly rude to the next stranger that crossed your path. Does that make you a blantant racist if that person were not Black, or simply human.
Individual human interactions are far more complex that the media would have you believe. Painting all of these interactions with the same broad "culture of racists" brush is not just misleading it is damaging...
Disciple724, economics is not one of my hobbies. I don't recall listing it as such on my Blog (but then I have not visited my Blog in some time)... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12860
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 01:51 pm: |
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So riddle me this, Troy. If Obama loses the election, will you still be of a mind to move to Ghana? And, if so. Why? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12861
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 02:02 pm: |
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I'd further respond by contending that racism is not alway malicious or destructive. But it is a constant, and a survival tool for Whites because, when all else fails, they still have the advantage of white skin to distance themselves from the woes that befall those who don't have white skin. Whites have the option to choose whether or not to reap the benefits of being white.
And, of course, if black people were the majority in power, they would be just as racist as Whites. |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1168
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 02:04 pm: |
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I hate to say it ...but I told you! ...Troy continues to move with the grace of Walter Payton and Muhammed Ali ...He floats ...he stings ...while delivering stiff-arms along the way ...
Troy has not waivered in his basic opinion that one or even a few incidents of percieved racism does not constitute a "culture of racism" ...the key word ...perceived.
His continuity has made it hard for the ever increasing female supporters to crack his position ...calling Cyniques endorsed view "illogical".
He stamped Crystal's personal view of racism as just that ...a personal experience that therefore does not indict Harvard.
The telling blow may have been his overview of the media (newspapaer) ...he questioned their motives ...and implied ...they themselves ...may harbor racist views or activity.
Troy is fast becoming the best pound for pound fighter on the board ...his defense is strong ...his jab is sharp ...his knockout punch is without question ...time after time the ladies have returned to their corner to mount another charge ...Troy is standing in his ...barely breaking a sweat ...I doubt if the ladies can recover from his two handed attack ...Troy is a formidable foe and despite the onslaught of the female wordsmiths ...Troy continues to be an un-movable force ...however, the pussycats have repeatedly displayed a never quit attitude ...and they will not go down without a fight ...and I strongly feel we have not heard the last from them! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12863
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 02:14 pm: |
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I didn't say I necessarily endorsed Crystal's view. I complimented her on effectively stating her case. And, racism is too personal and too emotional an issue to categorize as "logical" or "illogical". IMO. |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1169
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 03:15 pm: |
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It could be over ...The pussycats appeared to have made a critical error ...they are backpeddling ...they are fumbling the ball ...they are hollering at the crowd ...their "B" team might have stayed on the floor too long.
Retreating statements are evident ...statements such as: "I didn't say I "necessarily" endorsed Crystal's view"
The women seem to have lost focus as well ...saying ..."And, of course, if black people were the majority in power they would be just as racist a whites" ...and ..."racism is not always malicious or destructive"
...Press Row shook their heads in bewilderment ...wondering if those statements were signs of a weak ship ...or a purposeful concilitory exit? ...Diversion?
The ship is sinking ...the clock is running down ...will they punt or pass? ...will the starters return? ...whatever the case ...this could be a done deal ...could be???
I hope it doesn't end like this ...they've taken tremendous punches and always came back ...always ...Yet, I can hear a song playing in my head ..."Everything Must Change"
Have we seen the last of the Pussycats ...The Steel "Diamonds Will Do" Curtain?
Mean "Kitty" Green and Marvelous "Yevette" The Hagler could have taken their last shots ...I hope not! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12864
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 03:39 pm: |
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Oh stuff it, Carey. How seriously can we take the pronouncements of a self-appointed, biased referee.
The subject is the pervasiveness of racism. Any input is relevant to this broad subject.
And as Yvette already noted this is a subject where there are no "correct" answers, only varied opinions.
I remain curious as to why Troy's immunity to racism wouldn't prevail and he would consider leaving America and moving to Ghana if a black candidate doesn't win the presidency. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3186
Registered: 01-2005
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 06:38 pm: |
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Troy has not waivered in his basic opinion that one or even a few incidents of percieved racism does not constitute a "culture of racism" ...the key word ...perceived.
Actually, Carey, I think a better key word is "racism." The headline of the article suggests a perception of "prejudice"--not racism. The students perceive that they are prejudged on the basis of their skin color, and that this prejudging is a negative one. As an example given in the article, they can be dressed all in Harvard gear, on the grounds of the campus, and still be presumed to not belong there.
"Perception" is always going to be a core part of racism or sexism (or any "-ism"), as there is no "objective" measure of these. It is a matter of perception and man-made definition.
I think that in your attempts at levity, you sometimes misconstrue folks' positions. I appreciate insightful analysis, especially aimed at lightening the mood. But I have to say that this particular boxing metaphor is wearing a little thin, IMO. I do not see myself as "battling" or "fighting" with anyone here. Simply exchanging points of view. And again, I do not necessarily see myself or anyone as trying to change hearts and minds--of "winning."
Instead, it is more like we are all contributing to a collage. The end result will be a pastiche of a variety of life experiences and opinions that will be more complex than the original article that spawned the discussion in the first place.
I hope you recognize that with this post I am not trying to silence your particular brand of posting. Like the anti-drunk driving commercials, though, perhaps you should "know when to say when" LOL I'd never try to discourage optimism and levity--I am, afterall, the person who Chris once accused of "traveling around on sunbeams and rainbows" (or somesuch).
I take that as a compliment.
Peace... |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1170
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 08:00 pm: |
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A great epic "battle" *LOL* ...toe to toe ...blow to blow ...but yes ...Yes, the winds have shifted.
Cries of foul and biased judging drifts over the stage ...Is it a sign of defeat? ...or a call for arms? ..Are the Black Pussycats taking a page from the Republican Party ...Are they trying to tug at the hearts of the public by painting a picture of a black man ...and the poor little (white) woman? ...A surprising move ...yet not uncommon ...when your clips are empty why not throw the gun ...the winds are shifting!
A surprise move indeed ...yet if history serve us well ...this type of front will continue ...I hope not ...not after several days of spirited debate ...A debate that ranks among one of the best of the years ...maybe it is a man's world and the women will resort to time honored female tatics of crying and dropping false innuendos.
Having said all of that ...the women did not leave before lobbing one last serve ..."prejudice" ...not "racism"
What about a time called now! ...I am sure Troy will not utter a word that will give signs of a brass victor ..."To the victor goes the spoils" ...however, Troy is a gentleman and a businessman and perhap will even side with the ladies in their latest venture ...their foray into... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12865
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 10:24 pm: |
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I'm moved to yawn, as you continue to try and frame this discussion within the ropes of a boxing ring, Carey.
You think everybody sees things through your myopic view, and you take great liberties when characterizing people, twising their motives to fit your bent out-of-shape assumptions as you over-estimate your impact on people. You've convinced yourself that everybody who doesn't agree with you is copping a plea - a defense mechanism on your part, obviously.
You further seem incapable of comprehending that what you consider a knock-down drag-out battle is, to other people, a civil exchange of ideas about a familiar subject. No big thing. Except, of course, to a punch-drunk pug like you. |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1171
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 10:49 pm: |
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Silence fills the room...
Perhaps it's because the Trojans are clobbering the Buckeyes ...That is not mentioned as a metaphor ...USC is presently killing the Ohio State Buckeyes.
Metaphor: A figure of speech in which one thing is compared to something different ...to brighter the image or vision ...the definition speaks to the writers use of such ...it is most assuredly subjective.
This writer couldn't help but see the point and counter-point (jab and counter jab) ...It was obvious that a different of opinions were present ...lines were drawn ...much like Gettysburg and Bunker Hill ...In a football game the reserves are inserted into the game as the clock winds down ...fast breaks occur in basketball ...a "4" on "1" can produce a slam dunk ...much like this debate ...make no misstake about it ...this was a debate ...and a great one!
In one of Troy's promotional videos ...he championed the discussion board ...saying it was a favorite site ...filled with information and yes ...controversy ...I agree ...and will continue to share ...to be part of the mix ...controversy and all ...Hey, Prince wrote a song about ..."Controversy" ...can't be all that bad
The taste of defeat can be an ugly thang ...I know ...I am speaking from experience ...I am not saying (Yvette uses this) ...I am not saying anyone was defeated ...as some has said ...it was not a win or lose situation ...it was a discussion ...Nevertheless, a tone ...a vibe is often felt by some ...from some ...whom may not be accustom to....
The Trojons continue to roll....
Carey
Carey |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1172
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 11:06 pm: |
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And of course there's Cynique ...Cynical Cynique ...doing what she does ...wishing to draw the debate into a bickering match ...a mud wrestling game of dirty insults.
Trying hard to get off the bench and in the mix ...yet she stumbles! ...maybe not ...I have gone there with her.
Match Point..... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12867
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 01:24 am: |
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Listen to Carey. Whining like a little white girl. (As if he doesn't bicker). I challenge him to cite one thing I said that wasn't on a level with his snide digs. Oh, of course. I forgot. He can dish it out but can't take it. He gets his licks in and then wraps himself in righteous indignation when somebody doesn't give his essays an "A". Poor baby.  |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1174
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 10:33 am: |
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And ...The serve ...The ball is crossing the net...
We've come full circle... After 50+ posts ...11 days ...260 + hours
On Sept 03, 2008 - 11:04, Troy wrote:
Is that it?!
Poor babies...
On the things that need to be addressed this incident and similiar ones within the hallowed walls of "Thumper's Corner" would be so far down the list it may as well be off it (or somesuch) *lol*
Game over...
**The curtain closes** |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3190
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 10:49 am: |
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Carey, your 8:00 post is...mystifying, at best. Did you even read what I wrote? Have you any opinions of your own on the original topic?
It is easy to be a sideline commentator when you boil every exchange down to a stereotypical "____ vs. _____." It is harder to be an analyzer who sees and comments on shades of gray.
Re: a civil exchange of ideas about a familiar subject
Exactly, Cynique! Anyone who has been around the Internet for a minute knows how ugly discussions can get. (As a matter of fact, things have gotten ugly up in this spot as well LOL) This here is not in that league at all. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3191
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 11:05 am: |
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College is an opportunity to prove and/or re-invent themselves. Some of the most rabid faux-black-nationalist black students I encountered at Yale--the ones who questioned everyone's "blackness"--were kids from majority white high schools.
FK, I meant to comment on this before but got...sidetracked. LOL
I think you are absolutely right about this. I have seen this myself. I see this as a wonderful thing about college. (Not saying that you were seeing this as a drawback. Just wanted to make that explicit.)
White kids have used their college years as times to experiment with their identity for decades. In fact, the freedom to "try out" different selves can be an important part of growing up. If you do not have access to such an opportunity, if you move directly into the world of work or military, you become an adult on a very specified path.
Not that this is a bad thing, either. It just closes off possibilities, perhaps--for some--prematurely.
White kids on college campus will try on a full range of identities--goth or agitator or vegan or fraternity/sorority brother/sister or slacker or foreign film devotee etc etc. There seems to be a more constricted range of what kids of color are "allowed" by various groups to try out, and more consequences for being too different from what others may expect of them.
I have seen prep school Blacks suddenly become hard core thugs, inner city Blacks start hanging out with only Whites, 3rd generation middle class Blacks become Black Panthers, among several combinations. In general, these extreme shifts in identity are temporary. Being someone who you have previously not been teaches you something about yourself. Eventually most folks settle into a less extreme person. |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1175
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 11:20 am: |
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PWAAK.....BTHOOOM!....CWAM!...KWAK!...PWAFFT!
KWOCK....BLAM......SKLANG....SKPOW....BRRRAKK!
**Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain** |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 464
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 12:03 pm: |
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Yvette, I hadn't considered the perspective you present--that this kind of "re-invention" can be a good thing for us, as we too often limit ourselves to the narrowest of identity and experience boxes, and/or allow others to limit us, and/or attempt to limit others. Lord knows (more) black folks need to learn to write their own, progressive scripts.
In general, these extreme shifts in identity are temporary. Being someone who you have previously not been teaches you something about yourself. Eventually most folks settle into a less extreme person.
This reminds me of one such "re-invented" classmate who informed me that there was no such thing as a white friend, freshman year. By senior year, he was writing in the black campus newspaper a mea culpa of sorts accepting that he had judged folks unfairly with his blacker-than-thou attitude, and the rest of us were free to live our lives as we saw fit, lol. (Of course, I'm taking liberties, but you get the idea.) Incidentally, this guy went on to become a venture capitalist. ;-)
Another woman (a senior when I was a freshman) was a black leader on campus who didn't talk as much as she speechified. Apparently, during some dinner time conversation she stood up, in all seriousness, and announced, "I will not eat salad with the white man!" Then glanced down at her watch and said, "Ooops! Late for society!" Meaning her secret society...the same one our current Idiot-in-Chief belongs to. ;-) She later went on to work on Wall Street.
Not mad at either one of them (and from what I hear, they both continued to advocated and work on behalf of black folks post-college), just that their stories illustrate your point. At the time however, it looked a lot like hypocrisy to us, as opposed to people growing, changing, and learning. |
Carey
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Username: Carey
Post Number: 1176
Registered: 05-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 01:31 pm: |
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Yvette
Re: To your 11:05 post
You are a nice contributor to the board ...a great wordsmith ...continue to do what you do.
I will never tell you how or what to say ...even in a snide way ...But of course, as you've said, I am not here to stiffle your brand of posting either ...it's all chilly beans.
Cool...? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12868
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 02:37 pm: |
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Yvette and FK, what you 2 had to say in your final posts on this thread was really perceptive and very interesting, certainly providing another perspective to this subject. And certainly a contrast to my experience many years ago on a predominately-white Big Ten campus where those of us who comprised the scant student body of Blacks at the U. of I. adopted a common identity.
Although we came from the urban and rural and small town areas through out the state of Illinois, we presented a united front to the indifference of our white classmates, relieved that they were tolerant rather than hostile to us.
In later life, the only change most of us underwent, upon settling into the various niches we had carved for ourselves, was an appreciation for what could be gained by challenging the status quo. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10198
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 01:44 pm: |
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Ferociouskitty,
You remind me of a Black college friend of mine would go on ad infinitim about the The Great EVIL that is the White man. So you know that she, of course, end up marrying and making babies with a WHITE MAN.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 470
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 03:33 pm: |
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ABM: That's because his ice was colder, LOL! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10201
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 03:51 pm: |
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Ferocious,
Perhaps. Though, if I recall correctly, it might have had more to do with his bank account than it did his ice.
~Now I ain't saying she's a golddigger. But she ain't messin' wit no broke...~ |
Carey
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Username: Carey
Post Number: 1178
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 05:55 pm: |
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I have to laugh at where this thread has gone.
Kitty, remember when you did a thang on flippin' the script *lol* ...well, here we are again ...golddiggers and Ice Cold Bling-Bling...
I was laughing ...and moved so much that I looked at a couple of other looong threads ...here's one that a number of people jumped in ... you'll have to check it out ...you even dropped a few thoughts ...aside from where it went ...it was insightful ...and maybe speaks to why we write (and post) ....
The title of the tread: Why do we read?/Why are we writers ...started on July 16,2006 04:42pm ...ending with Cynique on July 20th, 2008, 09:40pm |
Troy
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Username: Troy
Post Number: 1530
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 09:41 pm: |
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Cynique, my consideration of Ghana is largely independent of Obama. While I did make the moving to Ghana statement in another thread I was not serious.
Did you really think I would denouce my citizenship and leave my family and friens over the outcome of a single election?
Also you realize Black have for generations used their race to their benefit too. People of poor character will always do this. You can completely remove prejudice from humanity, the best you can do is foster a culture where it is not tolerated. Today we are still in the witch hunt stage and have a long way to go...
ABM, many so called "Black radicals" marry white folks. That is almost a cliche now. |
Disciple724
Regular Poster
Username: Disciple724
Post Number: 98
Registered: 07-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 10:16 pm: |
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Troy,
To "tolerate", could mean to recognize and respect others, but it could also mean to put up with something or someone until you can deal with them a the appropriate time.
I'm afraid that the time is nearing when we all will find out which definition applies.(see Economic Collapse!!
We all form our opinions, attitudes, and assumptions based on our own unique experiences and circumstances. I was wondering if you ever personally experienced an incident of extreme racism or bias. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12872
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 11:37 pm: |
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I am not somebody who is hyper sensitive about how the inocuous faux pas of white prejudices but I am not naive.
My thing is that it's not just about racist nuances that Blacks pick up on; it's the motivation of the Whites who create these impressions. Blacks can talk about rising above a fixation on racism all we want, but just because we decide not to be preoccupied with them doesn't mean that Whites don't harbor them. And they have the power to enforce their prejudices. "Know thy enemy." |
Troy
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Username: Troy
Post Number: 1531
Registered: 01-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 09:37 am: |
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Disciple724 the eccomony is in a very precarious position. Honestly we all should be MUCH more concernd and preparing for that -- but that is a topic of another conversation.
Sure I've been the target of overt racism. I don't know about "extreme" but it was obvious the primary reason for the mistreatment was my Black skin.
Cynique, in all of the situations because above assuming that the situations were all motivated by race and then extending that assumption to Havard fostering a racist environment is a mistake.
The newspaper is like the kid in the school yard instigating a fight between to other people purely for his enjoyment.
Sure if someone spits on you and says, "get the hell out of here n i g g e r", when you are in a place you have the right to be. This should be virgorously fought.
Now the less subtle things like being turned down for a job, or having your ID checked on campus is were we have problems.
When they were still stringing up Negros in the south, Black folks up north used to says (and still do) that White folks are worse up North, cause they hide their racism?! We assume all white folks are racist even if they show no sign of being one. This too is wrong because now every white person is a potential enemy when they are not.
I think we, too often, use white racism as the only reason all of our ills.
You know it is bad when we have children exclaiming that the white man is keeping them down. But when they are confornted with the reality that the white man is not preventing them from doing their homework or showing up for class they have nothing to say.
"Know thy enemy" |
Disciple724
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Username: Disciple724
Post Number: 103
Registered: 07-2008
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 12:04 pm: |
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Troy, I am so shocked to see you print " less subtle things like being turned down for a job" with an almost dismissive tone.
Brother, economics trumps "racism" because it shatters the myth that a particular race is superior to another. What I think most people miss concerning the matter is that this issue is more about culture ( behavior control) that is is about color. If one controls your thoughts, he controls your emotions, and hence he controls you. Now there are some attractive aspect of "white cultures" and some very subtlely corrupt aspects as well. If fact much of the fallout that we are eperiencing today is result of " well dressed, seemingly friendly, and honorable smiling people", that have been subtlely robbing people: especially us. You may not see it, but from my vantage point it is clear.
Someone does not have to go as far as to the point where he has "spit on me" before I get the message; not all "signs" are overt but they are signs to be observed none the less. The Creator gave me 7 senses and I when i am in the fullness use them all; I do have my lapses though as some of my postings here atest.
There so much more I would like to say, but for now my country needs me. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12874
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 12:19 pm: |
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As I previously contended, Troy, racism is not necessarily spawned by evil intent or practiced in a vicious way. There is such a thing as benign racism as demonstrated by patronizing Whites.
Of course, not all white people act out their racism, and, yes, Blacks too often use racism as an excuse to rationalize their inadequacies but - race does matter. And for whites, when all else fails, - racism becomes a survival tool. It's not inconceivable that a black presence on their campuses can represent a threat to the time-honored traditions of Ivy League colleges.
I confess that my intensified preoccupation with racism has to do with how I believe white racism will determine the outcome of the presidential election. I'm convinced that if Obama loses, it will be the votes of good decent white people, unable to a reqlinquish the entitlement of their white skin, who will deny him a victory. |
Crystal
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Username: Crystal
Post Number: 437
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 12:47 pm: |
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Troy, the article says: “The incident, which ignited criticism from black students and faculty, highlighted the prejudices that many black students say they continue to face at Harvard, not only from police, but form classmates, as well.” It also says there have been long-standing complaints of racial profiling by the campus police.
Yes, there is racism at Harvard. Nowhere in the article does it say the students have stopped going to class and stopped doing their homework or they are dropping out because of it so they DO have something to say. They can say: Hey, we’re here holding it down but this is what we have to go through to do it and we don’t like it! And the least we can do is not dismiss them or their concerns.
Dang, I can’t seem to stay out of this post . . . |
Troy
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Username: Troy
Post Number: 1532
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 02:15 pm: |
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Disciple724 you are actually supporting my point the the statement, "Brother, economics trumps "racism". This is completely true.
Do you think the mostly white folks about to get pink slips at Lehman Brothers are getting them to those at the top are racist?
I was always about economics if you really want to get down to it.
Cynique, you get no arguement from me about race mattering. However it only matters because we chose to make it matter. Who cares about the benign racism of whites. I don't really care so much what white folks think. What really matters is what they do.
We all can conjure up some foul or evil thoughts but what makes it out your mouth or into action is how we should be judged, don't you think?
Crystal, you missed my point. I meant children in general, not Harvard's Black students.
But Crystal I do still think very little of the concerns of the Harvard students highlighted in the in the articles.
Crystal what do you think we should do to combat the racist enviroment at Harvard? Should we call Rev. Jackson, form a commission to investigate, should we hold rallies and organize marches? Should we foward the news article to all of our friends and write letters to Harvard's chancellor expressing out outrage. Should we boycott the school, riot and burn Harvard to the ground? Harvard deserves it, right?
And I'm not trying to say racists are not at Harvard. They are everywhere. But if the articles reflect the extent of their nefarious activity on campus then those students are in for a rude awakening when they leave the confines of a liberal institutions like Harvard and hit the real world.
The bottom line is that for several generations we've been fed this notion that white people in general all conspire to hurt Black people simply becuase we are Black. Sure some of them do; but most don't.
If you wanna be real: I submit that the majority of the time your "enemy" is not the rabid white racist, but another Black person. We all know the stats regarding Black on Black crime... But then so of you believe the white man is behind Black on Black crime too.
On a larger stage your enemy is the greedy capitalist (usually white) who are bringing this entire country down which includes all folks, Black, white and everything in between. They make out like bandits and are rarely punished. They may employ racism as a tool, but they are more greedy than racist. |
Crystal
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Username: Crystal
Post Number: 438
Registered: 01-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 03:16 pm: |
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OK, got it on the “children” comment and I agree. But you know, that’s a delicate balance too – on one hand we cannot allow our children to not handle their business and then blame it on the white man or any other man but we also cannot allow them to naively accept racism as a matter of fact, hang their heads and slink away. Yes, speak up and Yes, protest and Yes, study hard, graduate and start your own investment brokerage!
If I had the answer to the what to do about racism question I’d be running Harvard! I think the answer may be a little of all you suggest. Not because Harvard deserves it but because we all deserve it.
How about this: maybe we can look at the actions in the article as a part of their education . . . learn how to respond to this situation now because you’ll be seeing more of it later in life and you can’t let it get you down to the point of inertia.
All I’m really saying in this is: don’t dismiss our young people. If WE don’t listen and encourage them to try to change things for the better then who will??? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12877
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 04:29 pm: |
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I'm not sure we have the luxury of options when it comes to this subject. Whether race matters to black people is in direct correlation with whether it matters to white people in charge. If a black person isn't deterred by racism, then it's because racism has been kept in check. This does not mean that it won't be triggered by random acts.
True, Black folks can be their own worst enemy so they do need to realize that racism is a doulbe edged sword.
I'm not advocating that we be obsessed with racism, but we should never under-estimate how it can disguise itself as being harmless. All White people may not be our enemies but their skin color is their uniform when it comes to conflicting goals.
And the white people getting the pink slips from Lehman Brothers are being let go by other white people, so racism is not a factor in this case. |
Carey
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Username: Carey
Post Number: 1187
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 05:47 pm: |
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***I am keeping quite ...that mean ol'Yvette told me to shut my trap**
It's killing me ...I feel as if I am a fallen soldier ...opps |
Troy
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Username: Troy
Post Number: 1533
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 06:13 pm: |
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Cynique given the right motivation white people, or Black people for that matter, will use any tool to get what they want. Religion (white Germans killed 6MM white jews in your lifetime), class, or nationality are good examples. Race is just another tool in the belt of evil people.
What we need to fight is evil. Racism is a by product of evil and it is only effective when used on the ignorant.
Our enemy is evil Black or White people. Racism is a diversion.
Crystal, I hear you and of course we should listen and encourage the youngins. But as a father of two teenage daughters I have to tell you some of the stuff they bring needs to be dismissed.
Sure it may be a big deal to them at the time, but I give them the benefit of my experience to help them understand why it my not be a big deal. Conversely they may blow something off as trvial and not realize there may be a life long impact.
Unfortunately in this youth based culture of ours there are so many negative influences it is a wonder a parent can raise a child at all today.
...as a result it is no surprise the kids at Harvard react the way they did to being carded on campus. |
Crystal
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Username: Crystal
Post Number: 439
Registered: 01-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 07:12 pm: |
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Yes, parents parenting is what's needed but OMGoodness what happens when the parents are kids themselves??? Of course this is not just a Black issue [Madam Vice-Presidential candidate!] but I have a bad feeling it's gonna get worse for our children. The number of young mothers on the bus cussing at their kids like they're dogs on the street is nauseating! Where will these kids learn respect? Who is teaching them to stand tall, look the opponent in the face and state their case with inteligence? Who’s doing the “don’t touch that tv until your homework is done and checked”? Oops, a subject for another post I guess. |
Carey
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Username: Carey
Post Number: 1188
Registered: 05-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 07:19 pm: |
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I am dying over here ...can I just say something? |
Crystal
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Username: Crystal
Post Number: 440
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 07:40 pm: |
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No. |
Disciple724
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Username: Disciple724
Post Number: 109
Registered: 07-2008
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 09:18 pm: |
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Would anyone object to starting this thread closer to the top; its getting long and low! just a suggestion. |
Disciple724
Veteran Poster
Username: Disciple724
Post Number: 110
Registered: 07-2008
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 09:37 pm: |
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I would just state that the problems that resonate in Africam American cultures, both high and low, are many and dynamic with plenty of faults and blames to go around.
What is most puzzling, is despite the highly educated, intelligent, and capable people that we have in our cultures, we have failed to make any significant broad progress; relatively speaking. Now I suspect that this statement will get plenty of rebuttals, which in and of itself is a problem. Despite all of our abilities, black folk spend far too much time and energy debating about the problem and not enough time resolving them.
Howbeit, that when intelligent person makes a valid observation, the typical reaction is to dispute its viability. Now I have often been accused of be verbose, but that's because i try to offer the evidences (not hearsay) that help arrive at my opinion or conclusions.
I don't intend to sound preachy, but I have seen the power of working together. With it, there is no problem that can not be solved; if we are want to solve them. I have learned that much of it rest in the art of communication; perfecting how to listen and or read for understanding, and speaking or write for edification and building. But that just my observation. |
Disciple724
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Username: Disciple724
Post Number: 111
Registered: 07-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 09:48 pm: |
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Troy
Your comments on evil are spot on!
The media, including hip hop music plays a big role; garbage in garbage out.
why do we expect a young mind, still be shaped, to listen to that crap for hours on hours a day, and expect them not to be influenced by that. Why because we spent 5 -10 minutes telling them something different. Fact is young lifes are more likely to be influenced by someone that they associate with most often. Since, most of us are busy working, that leaves T.V, radio, 50 cent, etc. the subtle message is that you can be ignorant and violent and have money and power. Hmm, I wonder who's finacing that message and why? |
Carey
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Username: Carey
Post Number: 1189
Registered: 05-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 09:49 pm: |
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 ....but can I just..... |
Crystal
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Username: Crystal
Post Number: 441
Registered: 01-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 11:52 am: |
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OK Carey but you better not say anything stupid! |
Carey
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Username: Carey
Post Number: 1191
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 03:05 pm: |
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Gee, thanks Crystal ...I ....ahhh ...I think ...ahh ...dang, did you say I couldn't say anything stupid? ...I ahh ...I mean ...I meant
See ...you ain't right.
Where is Yvette? I was gonna say a little sumtin' but....
Oh what the heck:
Toe-to-toe ...Blow to blow ...a new challenger has stepped into the ring ...YES! ...It's Black Jesus! ...wait ...who's side is he on? The crowd went crazy upon seeing the ladies walk their mighty new warrior down toward the ring ...Crystal gave the crowd a little peek as she was riding upon the shoulders of "Disciple" ...riding and shouting "Dis my ni**a" ...Kitty and Yvette dropped their heads and was seen blending into the crowd.
Troy tried to put a straight-jacket on Disciple ...he saw it coming and countered with a jab of his own. Disciple throws a mixed bag of blows and it's hard to pin him down ...Troy just might use the time honored black phrase...."ahh F**k you ...you ain't talkin' bout nothin" but with Cynique at his side ...YES, Cyn-Cyn has slipped into the costume of Apolo Creed ...and is working in the corner of ...Troy "The Harlem" Bomber |
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