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AALBC.com's Thumper's Corner Discussion Board » Culture, Race & Economy - Archive 2008 » Aren't White People really Superior to Blacks in almost every way? « Previous Next »

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Disciple724
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Post Number: 64
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Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 12:44 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After yesterday's exchange, I was had a discussion with a collegue and after pledging that I wouldn't get violent or angry... He made this asertion.

In summary he sited:

Economics Accomplishments, Community quality, Unity ( right or wrong), and Family values for starters made the white race as a whole far superior and " it's not even close". He made an interesting case and supported his case with statistics. I decided to hold my opinion and post it to this community to get the rebuttals from this community. Tell me what you think, does he have point! If not, Why not?
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
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Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 02:26 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh well, good luck with your counter argument.....
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Disciple724
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Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 02:42 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't want to admit this, I need some Help!

Cyn what do you have?
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A_womon
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Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 02:59 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

this is a bunch of Bullbonkey!

WHO if given all of the power, advantages, money PRIVILEDGE --EVERYTHING handed to them on a freaking silver platter couldn't out-succeed others? PLEASE. If you hold all the freaking cards, how are you going to loose? And even given that A GREAT NUMBER OF THEM STILL fail to exhibit all of the thing mentioned in the beginning post.
GOOD GRIEF!!!!
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Disciple724
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Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 03:25 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought of using that arguement; but even on this board I was accused of "making excuses. Besides last year, one of the top hedge fund managers made over $1.8 billion in SALARY!!

That's more than the entire net worth of Oprah, Jay Z, and Will Smith combined. I think he was 29 years old.
Besides we spend quite abit of money on stuff, why could we do something with it when it was in our control. I hate to agree with CyN, on this own but it sounds like I might be making an excuse!
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Ntfs_encryption
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Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 04:48 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"I hate to agree with CyN, on this own but it sounds like I might be making an excuse!"

Yep.......
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Cynique
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Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 06:06 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Only a person who claims to be an Oracle knows the answers to everything? Watta ya want from me, Disciple?
Try this: When white mutants were driven off from the tribe, they had to wander away into intemperate lands and learn now to fend for themselves in order to survive. Black folks stayed behind in the nice warm lush jungle and danced and sang and perfected their athletic skills. And the rest is history. OK?
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Cynique
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Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 06:29 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I hope my little anecdote conveys how much weight I give to Disiple's attempt to rennovate this board. If people don't feel like kow-towing to his overbearing demands, then they don't have to. He ain't saying nothing new or compelling or anything that hasn't been discussed here dozens of times before. He's fast becoming a bore. Blah, blah, blah.
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Ntfs_encryption
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Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 06:33 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"When white mutants were driven off from the tribe, they had to wander away into intemperate lands and learn now to fend for themselves in order to survive. Black folks stayed behind in the nice warm lush jungle and danced and sang and perfected their athletic skills. And the rest is history."

....................
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Cynique
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Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 10:12 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I never thought of myself as "struggling" with Disciple. What's with all of this drama??? You and Disciple take this whole thing too seriously, Carey. This is an on-line forum, not a monumental life and death conflict. People do have lives away from here and when they stop by here to talk, they do so to participate in discussions that interest them, discussions about which they have something unique to contribute.
If they're not motivated to re-hash subjects they have previously argued about, and are not inspired to become involved in these verbal marathons, then that's their prerogative. It's as simple as that. Get over it.
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Hen81
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Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 10:36 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Disciple724,

The problem with your friends arguments is that he chose the measurements. His measurements all revolve around material wealth and the family values part is questionable.

Economic accomplishments is a no brainer win for whites on an absolute basis. On the other hand those accomplishments have this country in a downward spiral. High risk mortgage instruments made a few wealthy but now the collapse of those have families both white and blacks in a crisis. This is really a problem for blacks as a greater portion of their net worth was in their homes.

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=b121910bf335fc 737295ea33b0fadedb&from=rss

I say blacks do well in the realm of economic accomplishment when measured by economic efficiency and percent of economic increase over a period of time given that they started from nothing in this country. When slavery ended American blacks could be counted as starting from $0 net worth in 1865. Over 145 years later you need to account for when the earnings playing field was starting to be leveled. The civil rights movement in the 1960's knocked down more barriers. I went to work at IBM in the 1980's. I really count the 80's as the real start of when black in quantity could begin to gain the same kinds of higher end jobs that could help close the wealth gap. This is a complex soup. If we say 1975 as a marker then we are talking about 33 years when many, not all of the barriers to higher income, non-blue collar jobs were available in mass. Country club access where deals are made and other off business hours deal making environments were tough to gain access to. I say your friend is citing concentrations of wealth for one and a legacy of inherentence as another. Much of that inherentance was created by those who could not share in it and certainly could not expect to have it willed to them, even if they share the blood line,

Community quality is an urban vs. suburban vs. rural issue of exposure. Blacks in low income urban neighborhoods are showcased on tv, movies and the news often. Remember when West Virginia had their primaries and the poorest county was showcased, it was not the lap of luxury. There are many poor run down white communities, many are rural and out of the spotlight. Crystal Meth is the crack of many of these places and crime is high. More whites are on welfare than black, these people live somewhere.

Unity among whites as a group is something I don't really recognize. There may be groups or clubs that they belong to but on the whole whites are the majority so they behave as the majority, individually. Minorities tend to have groups like NAACP, National Urban League, LULAC, CORE because they feel the need to unite to gain rights and opportunity due to being the minority.

Family values is a subjective term. A family is whoever makes up the household. If a single black woman heads a home and runs it with a high set of morals, then that family has high family values.
If a white family with husband, wife and children are having affairs, doing drugs and engaging in premarital sex then that family has questionable family values. What kind of family values do the families of Britney, Paris and Lindsay have? I don't know, do you? How many white stars and black stars have children out of wedlock? Is it ok because they have money?

On the surface he has a point but it is more complex than that.

http://DTPollard.com
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Ntfs_encryption
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Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 10:43 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Look, never have a seen such that is accuring on this board. Disciple has come up in our house and run rampant. Not that we should agree with him or not, that's not the issue. I have constantly said there are many strong men and debater on this block. This man has come up in here and literally called out the core of this board."

Hmmmmm......So what is your real concern? If you say agreeing or not agreeing with him is not an issue, then what is that you seek to address? The man just got here. Is he offensive to you? Are his posts irrational, profane or insulting? What exactly is that you object to? Just curious......

"Again, you might not be invested in the issue but the pure fact that this is your board dictates the we defend it. No, it's not a war but there's principles that need to be looked at."

Defend the board? Defend the board from what?? Someone giving opinions that you don't agree with? And what are these principles that are being violated? Details please.....

"Disciple has struted through here with a bold stride, begging for someone to step in his way. This is your Goddamn house."

Oh really??? Bro Carey, I hope I'm not sounding ignorant here, but WTF are you talking about????? What exactly is this brazen out of control arrogant border line disrespectful behavior you speak of??? I'm interested in your argument but ya gotta give me some definitive and concrete examples of Disciples transgressions to balance your hysterical accusations. Again -Details please........!!!!

"Disciple is calling us out. Don't agree with him but if so.... SAY IT!"

Wow! I wasn't aware that he was calling us out. Ummmmm....Exactly what is the challenge?

"I just felt bad for the ladies and the lurkers that depend on you guys for some sort of relief from a hectic day. That Dark Chocolate DisCiple, has in some ways spit in yawls face."

Carey, not to be offensive, but are you taking drugs before coming to this board? What kind of hallucinations are you having? The man just gives his opinions and thoughts, ask questions and responds to replies. WHAT AM I MISSING? Now, I've read his epistemological abstractions and pontifications but frankly I found them boring. There was nothing there that sparked an interest for me personally. Why would I respond to something that does not interest me? Besides, Ms. Cynique (and other female posters) are more than qualified to argue or debate their differences. They don't need me nor you for that matter, to bolster their arguments (IMO).

It's nice that you have taken on the voluntarily role of protecting their (and the forums -as you claim) honor. But you have yet to produce any compelling evidence to support your histrionics and panic. Sorry bro, but at this point, it appears this is a personal beef between you and this allegedly new-found merciless cyber Darth Vader mass murderer......*Shrugs*.........
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Ntfs_encryption
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Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 10:53 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry for the late post above. It was written earlier and I had not posted it until now. I have read the more recent writings submitted after my July 23, 2008 - 06:33 pm post. But it still stands.
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Ntfs_encryption
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Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 10:55 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"B**chAZZ MF'ers, you need to handle yo sh*t. St*p hidin' behind the skirts of yo women. Blow it out of your A$$ if you can't protect yours. Save that weak s**t for cowards like you. What kind of MotherF**kers, sit back with their fingers up their A** and point and snicker. You ain't doing nothing but pimpin' yourself. Yeah, wiggly worm a** NIgg**. If the conversations swung to prostitution I bet your lame ass would be pulling on your johnson cryin' "dem nasty black women" and at the same time saying how it pumped your thang. Black women got your back. Don't you ever forget it!"

..................
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Disciple724
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Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 10:37 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yvette, Carey, and all others that might be interested:

There was a interesting show on last night called
"Black in America" on CNN, that speaks volumes to what I was trying to point to. Maybe someone saw it. The second Volume comes on tonight. The statistics are staggering and not coincidental. You and others might want to check it out.
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Chrishayden
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Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 11:31 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's see, you come to a continent. Steal it from the people living here. Kill them off. Bring a bunch of other people over here and work them like dogs for free for four hundred years and dog them all out for the last forty.

You use all this wealth to build the most terrifying military machine in history and take what you want from everybody and they can't do a thing.

Let me answer this question by asking another one--if you think Black people had done to whites what they did to us THEY WOULD EVEN BE ALIVE?

Economics Accomplishments,

(Outright theft, robbery and piracy taken by superior force)

Community quality,

(Ever been to Appalachia? How about the Ozarks? )

Unity ( right or wrong),

(Only unified when it comes to kicking us in tghe ass)

and Family values

(Bill Clinton, Teddy Kennedy, Warren Jeffs, Amy Winehouse, Madonna--

They raped your granmaw and wouldn't even free her children--which were theirs.
f
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Abm
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Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 11:32 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Disciple724,

I think A LOT of non-White foks over most of the last THOUSAND years or so (e.g., natives of the ENTIRE Western Hemisphere, Africans, hapless 1945 residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki) could very easily challenge this notion of how so much more evolved and/or civilized Whites are. They might effectively argue that MUCH of what White foks credit themselves with having achieved are born of their stealing from, killing, maiming, enslaving and raping others.

And some might even say that if you look earnestly at what’s CURRENTLY going on in the world, White America and White Western Civilization as a whole has been mostly just a house of cards that has started to come tumbling down.
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Cynique
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Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 11:36 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I watched this show last night, Disciple, and it certainly didn't play into what you've been saying, especially the part that dealt with how black women struggle because they have too many children out of wedlock and how this impacts on their progress. Yes, the show talked about black poverty but did not deny there was also white poverty. They didn't explore the latter because this is a show about black America.

The show will be focusing on black men tonight, and I'm sure you'll be patting yourself on the back because you think it will prove
your claims about these males, claims which are actually common knowledge to all black people.

This was more of a show to inform white people about the black condition in America, and I'm surprised you aren't having a seizure because of how this media event is focusing on all the negative images.
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Disciple724
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Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 11:56 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ChrisHayden,


Now you are talking my brother.

I agree with you 1000% ( except that Apalachian Ozark--that one was weak IMO). Concerning the family values; I would never say that they are moral, far from it. But good, bad, or indiffferent they will stick together.

Most black women I have encountered would never tolerated Bill or Ted. ( I know I am limited here) Can't speak on the woman you mentioned I don't know who Amy is and I never folow sh!t from madonna.

Now I know that there are exceptions to my statements But generally speaking, they tend to be unified; albeit in corruptibility. Now if we can be unified to do bad (i.e Gangs), Why can't we be even unified to do good.
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Disciple724
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Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 12:01 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abm,

enogh said!
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Disciple724
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Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 12:31 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cyn,

You have miscontrued both my comments and my intent. I know that there is a dominate good in Black America, or else i wouldn't waste my time. I just don't see the reason to relish in it given all the perils that are dominate.

I have been trained as a troubleshooter; which call for one to focus on the problems and the solutions. If i blow my engine, what solace is there in my booming sound system?

I believe uch of our community problems are easily fixable. But, 1/3 of us could careless, 1/3 of us rather focus on what's good and in doing deny that the problems are there or are that big. and then we have a portion that expliot the problem for their own personal gain. Just not enough being done in my opinion that's all.

Peace
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Cynique
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Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 12:39 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Obviously the way to Disciple's good graces is to tell him what he wants to hear - and he'll agree with you %1000 per cent - except of course if you happen to inject a little something that he doesn't want to hear, like anything about white poverty or white unity.

OK, fellas, I'm outta here. Talk amongst yourselves.
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Yvettep
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Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 01:10 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

D724: I did not catch the program and probably will not. My hunch is that I am not the intended demographic for that program and so really can't see that Id be enlightened by anything in it. Right now, Black folks are the flavor of the moment (again). I'm just trying to continue to live my life and try not to get licked. :-)

Re: much of our community problems are easily fixable:

Well, I could go off again about who "our" is, what "community" you're talking about, etc. But I'll leave off for now. :-) What I will say is that I disagree with this statement. Most social problems are incredibly difficult to fix, because the roots are so deep and wide.

One of the few things I recall from my one public policy course was the idea of "ill-formed problems." I think the concept is also presented as the "man on the moon" question. It goes something like this: "How is it we can put a man on the moon but we cannot solve ________ [some social ill like poverty, racism, etc]?"

This sentiment assumes that "putting a man on the moon" is incredibly difficult. That it is--both literally and figuratively--"rocket science." The further assumption is that we somehow have the will, discipline, whatever to do the former but not the latter.

But this is incorrect. Actually, putting a man on the moon involves a discrete set of problems, that are relatively easily solvable given the right tools, calculations, etc. There are a series of steps that are progressed through, and whether or not you have achieved success at each step is readily apparent. External conditions can be relatively well monitored and controlled.

Such is not the case with social problems. With social problems we are often like the blind men each touching a part of the elephant. I have much distrust for anyone who thinks that solving social problems is "just" a matter of this one thing or that one thing.

I like your idea about being a troubleshooter. But that kind of response is inherently reactive instead of proactive, isn't it? Not to say there is not value to that: recognizing a problem, accurately diagnosing it, and knowing how to fix it are surely needed skills that few folks possess. But other kinds of problem solving are important as well, IMO.
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Cynique
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Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 01:45 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Say on, Girlfriend!
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Disciple724
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Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 04:54 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yvette,

You raise very valid points. But IMO will do lack the will and the disciplines( generally, most really don't want to be bothered until it effects them directly).

But I'm getting your point; that many no longer see ourseves as part of a larger community. Instead we have become fragmented, If we ever were together to begin with. I see!

What are publications like " The State of the Black Union" appealing to? I guess that what I mean by "our" and "community", but I can see how many may no longer identify with that community, and with good reason.

Troubleshooting: because the problem already exist too late to prevent it. However, good point. It would also require some prevetive measures as well.

And upon further thought I must admit it wouldn't be easy, but still worth trying. Love is hard! I might be overly optimistic, but do distrust me for that. Thanks :-)
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Nels
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Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 07:45 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes. In fact they're so superior that the dumb ones in the pickup trucks (i.e., lunch bucket idiots) keep voting for the smart ones in the luxury cars (i.e., Wall Street Whores) while the latter keep shoving that big (too bad sucker!) stick up the lunch bucket's asses every four and six years when they (the lunch bucket's) vote for them (the Wall Streeters) out of prejudice, ignorance, homophobia, and the like. Go figure.
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Hen81
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Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2008 - 07:54 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You know what is a disturbing fact from my point of view, is the drumbeat of listing problems within the black community. Most conferences, specials and discussions consist of people giving heated descriptions of what's wrong. By now we know what's wrong, the symptoms at least. I submit that it is like the flu, what to you treat, the headache, body aches, fever or sore throat. The problem is the virus. Once the virus is killed, the patient recovers.

What is the virus or group of viruses that cause the problem. Those virus are drug resistant and we have litte resources ourselves to kill them. Virus -(Lack of education), cure- self-motivation to get an education-the payoff. Virus-(Drugs) - escape from reality & fast money - cure-meaningful life & gainful employment opportunity. Virus-absent fathers - attitudes towards women & women's attitude regarding themselves- children an afterthought - cure - increased self esteem and higher regard for children, etc.

These issues are massive to solve within a free society. It requires something on the level of a mass societal intervention like with a drug addicted individual. As we have seen when leaders go down that intervention path, they get their hands slapped. Cosby and Obama both received blowback, guess what that is what an addict does, 'I'm fine' they say. Some make their living exploiting our community's ills. Books, speeches, symposiums, conferences all draw sponsers, cameras and money to those that present them. If our community was strong then motivational speakers, make more money and start a business seminars would replace the what's wrong with us conclaves.

When I say mass intervention, that means that many with voices that we respect will have to stop making money off of our problems long enough to help fix them.

http://DTPollard.com
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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, July 25, 2008 - 12:51 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Blacks seem to think that if they prove white people are at the core of black woes that this will change things. But in America, blacks are who are going to have to do the changing. White folks have no vested interest in dismanteling a System that works for them.
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption

Post Number: 3334
Registered: 10-2005

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Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Posted on Friday, July 25, 2008 - 02:32 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"This was more of a show to inform white people about the black condition in America,..."

True. There is nothing new nor enlightening about the information they put out. As you have suggested, I also believe the show was for educating whites more than blacks. Not saying that to be critical but stating what I believe to be a fact. But I give them much credit for attempting to bring the crushing issues facing so many black Americans to the nations attention.

"Most black women I have encountered would never tolerated Bill or Ted. ( I know I am limited here).."

Yeah, that's an honest confession. But if you do beleive that, then you really are limited......SERIOUSLY!

"I believe uch of our community problems are easily fixable."

Oh? Well, you really are in very small minority. A minority that is totally ignorant of the harsh realities of the deeply entrenched and complex problems that are strangling the life out of black America. I have no idea why you would be so naive as to think the crushing problems of the black underclass can be easily solved. And if you really do believe that, please list your solutions to these easily fixable problem(s). I'd like to hear them.

"Well, I could go off again about who "our" is, what "community" you're talking about, etc. But I'll leave off for now."

Ummmm...Thank you very much Ms. Yvettep. I was wondering the same thing. I'd like for him to list the details of "our community" also.

"I have much distrust for anyone who thinks that solving social problems is "just" a matter of this one thing or that one thing."

And you should. There is no one magic silver bullet nor any one "fix it" potion that can successfully address the debilitating issues of the black underclass. The problems are too far reaching and deeply entrenched to be solved by simple minded wishful sloganeering and hollow nefarious race pride rhetoric. Negroes seem to desperately struggle with this reality.
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption

Post Number: 3335
Registered: 10-2005

Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!)

Posted on Friday, July 25, 2008 - 03:15 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Blacks seem to think that if they prove white people are at the core of black woes that this will change things. But in America, blacks are who are going to have to do the changing."

Ha! Ya got that right. But good luck if you think they will except that. It's easier to point to past historical injustices, play the "I be blacker than thee and you're an Uncle Tom" (a Negro favorite) mind trick game and blame others for their personal failures. Believing they have some control of their lives based on the decisions they make is too threatening. They ain't havin' it -PERIOD!

I just talked to two black female friends of mine today. One has a son 18 and the other has one that is 24 years old. Both of these young men are heading towards being members of the much notoriously celebrated young black American male statistics. I've personally attempted talk to both of them. It's like talking to a brick wall. Their testicles are the size of grape fruits and they ain't hearing nothing -I mean nothing! They are running on a full tank of testosterone and pure attitude and nobody is going to tell them shyt! Neither graduated from high school, neither work, have a drivers license, have any interest in school or finding a job. Their life now consists of listening to gangsta rap, chasing the honies and hanging out in the streets with their boys -that's it! At some point in life, these two Negroes (after serving time in prison) will be archetypal acrimonious preachers of the "white man is the devil and racism is holding me down". The writing is on the wall.....

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