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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6230
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 10:07 am: | 
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Take care you don't snap--
6 dead in shooting rampage at Kirkwood City Council
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
Friday, Feb. 08 2008
UPDATED, 7:52 a.m.
2/8/2008
Police expect to release new details this morning on the shooting rampage that
left six dead Thursday night at Kirkwood City Hall. Kirkwood Mayor Mike Swoboda
remains in critical condition at St. John's Mercy Medical Center.
A press conference is scheduled for 10 a.m. Check back to STLtoday.com for
details.
By Greg Jonsson
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
02/08/2008
KIRKWOOD — The last things Charles Lee "Cookie" Thornton said to his family
were "To God be the glory" and that he loved them.
Then Thornton headed to Kirkwood City Hall, gunning down a police officer
outside. He then burst into the City Council meeting just after the Pledge of
Allegiance and opened fire, shooting another officer dead and apparently
targeting public officials he's sparred with in the past.
Police said those killed included three Kirkwood officials, two police officers
and the shooter. Two others, including Mayor Mike Swoboda, were injured.
The Post-Dispatch confirmed through officials and other sources that among the
dead were Councilwoman Connie Karr, Public Works Director Kenneth Yost and
police officers Tom Ballman and William Biggs.
A correspondent for the Post-Dispatch who was attending said the 7 p.m. meeting
had just started when Thornton rushed into the council chambers yelling and
began shooting with at least one weapon.
"He came from the back of the room," said Janet McNichols, the correspondent.
"He kept yelling something about 'shoot the mayor' and he just walked around
shooting anybody he could."
McNichols said the shooter first fired at Ballman, a police officer at the
meeting. She said she looked up and saw that the officer had been shot in the
head.
Thornton then targeted Yost, who was sitting in front of McNichols. He also was
hit in the head, she said.
"After that, I was on my stomach under the chairs," she said. "I laid on my
stomach waiting to get shot. Oh, God, it was a horror."
McNichols said Thornton continued to yell about the mayor. From his voice and
the gunshots, she could tell he had approached the dais at the front of the
room, where the council sits behind a semicircular desk.
He fired at City Attorney John Hessel, who told McNichols he fended the
attacker off by throwing chairs. She saw Hessel later, appearing uninjured
except for a knot on his head.
McNichols said councilman Michael H.T. Lynch also was shot.
Tom Noonan, a former city council member and a friend of the mayor, said
Swoboda was in intensive care at St. John's Mercy Medical Center. He was in
critical condition Friday morning at the hospital, said hospital spokesman Bill
McShane.
After the gunman fired at officials around the dais, police officers burst into
the room and there was more yelling, McNichols said. Thornton shouted he had a
gun, shots were fired and officers shouted they had gotten him.
St. Louis County police spokeswoman Tracy Panus later confirmed that police had
killed the man believed to be the shooter.
"We have what we believe to be our suspect," Panus said. "We are not currently
actively searching for anyone in the area."
McNichols said about 30 people were in the council chambers at the time of the
shooting. Witnesses were herded into offices while police secured the council
chambers. Later they were taken to the police station to be interviewed.
Dave Bundy, the editorial director for the Suburban Journals, said that one of
the newspaper's reporters, Todd Smith, was injured in the attack.
"We don't know if it was a ricochet or what, but it hit him in the hand and
shattered a bone or two," said Bundy, who spoke with Smith in the emergency
room at St. John's. Smith was in satisfactory condition Friday morning.
Thornton was not a stranger to the council, where he was often a contentious
presence.
McNichols said he often aimed his ire at Swoboda and at Yost.
Late last month, a federal judge in St. Louis dismissed a lawsuit in which
Thornton, representing himself, claimed Kirkwood officials violated his free
speech rights by prohibiting him from speaking out at meetings.
In a ruling Jan. 28, U.S. District Judge Catherine D. Perry took into account
that Thornton had twice been convicted of disorderly conduct for disrupting
meetings in 2006 with off-point complaints about persecution by officials.
"He'd come to the meeting and he'd have a big easel and a picture of a donkey
on there and call the council asses," McNichols said.
Sportscaster Doug Vaughn of Channel 4 said he went to Kirkwood High School with
Thornton and has run into him through the years. He said Thornton's behavior
changed after police cracked down on his parking of vehicles for his
construction company outside his home in Meacham Park. He felt harassed, Vaughn
said.
"He was more than a critic," Vaughn said. "It got to where he was showing up at
every council meeting and trying to dominate everything. He kind of lost his
mind."
Mike Prosperi, owner of the Imo's Pizza near City Hall and near where the first
officer was killed, said everyone knew "Cookie." He said Thornton was known for
his contentiousness at council meetings, but said there was another side.
"I'm just so shocked," Prosperi said. "He always had a smile on his face. He
was always saying, 'God bless you. God bless you.' If he'd see you at the Sam's
Club or the hardware store, he'd go out of his way to say hello."
Family members of Thornton said Thursday night that they had no idea that he
was contemplating anything violent. They said they were stunned after learning
about the shootings from news reports.
City Hall is at 139 Kirkwood Road, with the police department just to the west
across a parking lot. Three blocks surrounding it were quickly cordoned off as
dozens of police cars, firetrucks and ambulances from other districts,
including Normandy, Eureka and Des Peres, poured in to help.
An hour after the shootings, ambulances and fire rescue vehicles were still
arriving.
Dotti Durbin and her husband, Mike, planned to attend the City Council meeting
to learn about an idea to rezone an area near Manchester and Kirkwood roads but
she was held up at work. She was met by dozens of police cars as she drove to
City Hall in hopes of catching part of the meeting.
"Lucky for us that we weren't at that meeting," Durbin said.
About a block away from City Hall is a monument to another recent violent
incident in Kirkwood. It honors Sgt. Bill McEntee, who was gunned down in the
city's Meacham Park neighborhood by Kevin Johnson in 2005. Johnson was
convicted late last year and sentenced to death earlier this month.
"It's just mind-boggling to see all this happening again," said John DeSherlia,
who lives nearby. "I mean, this is like déjà vu. You don't think these things
will happen in Kirkwood. We've built ourselves up as such a safe community."
McEntee was the second police officer in Kirkwood to be killed since 1898. The
two officers killed Thursday were the third and fourth.
"It's so hard at this point to make sense of this," said the Rev. Robert
Osborne of St. Peters Church in Kirkwood. He is the Kirkwood police chaplain.
He had spent the evening with police. He described it as a scene of great
sadness.
Police from area departments were offering condolences and hugs, he said.
Condolences were also pouring in from elected officials around the state.
"I join Missourians tonight in praying for the victims, their families and
friends, and everyone in the community of Kirkwood," Gov. Matt Blunt said.
The shooting incident on Thursday night was reminiscent of the day in 1992 when
Kenneth Baumruk, a litigant in a divorce case, pulled put a pistol in the St.
Louis County Courthouse in Clayton, killed his wife and wounded four others. He
survived and has been sentenced to death for the slaying.
The shootings stirred up fears for some mayors, who said they have sometimes
felt unsafe when controversial issues or angry residents confront them.
In 2004, at the height of a controversy involving construction of a local
shopping center, Maplewood Mayor Mark Langston called in two police officers to
serve as sergeants at arms at a City Council meeting.
"That's not something we normally do, but I had a feeling about that meeting,"
said Langston, 53, who has served as mayor for seven years. "It was an issue
that some people had become totally obsessed and upset about and it all came to
a head that night... We felt really exposed. We realized that if someone got
mad enough to get violent, it would be tough to stop them."
Leah Thorsen, Doug Moore, Stephen Deere, Ken Leiser, Steve Giegerich, Paul
Hampel, David Hunn, Phil Sutin, Tim O'Neil and Todd Frankel, of the
Post-Dispatch, contributed to this report.
gjonsson@post-dispatch.com | 314-340-8253
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Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2618
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 11:35 am: |
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Truth be told, Chris, when I first heard that this was in Da 'Lou, I feared it might be you...  |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6238
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 11:56 am: |
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Truth be told, Chris, when I first heard that this was in Da 'Lou, I feared it might be you
(Why--why that's the nicest thang you said to me in all these years--I'll dance at your next wedding.
But it couldn't have been me--I would have been holding Cynique hostage! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11393
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 12:33 pm: |
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 I thought the exact same thing, Yvette! As soon as I heard this happened around St Louis Missouri, I figured that ol crackpot crissy had finally snapped. |
Crystal
Veteran Poster
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 388
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 02:06 pm: |
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Me too! HAHAHA! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6245
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 10:48 am: |
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Nope. It wasn't me. It was one of them good Negroes you are always praising. Went in and took out five white folks.
I wonder what Bill Cosby has to say about this?
Any guesses? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11408
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 12:05 pm: |
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Since what you say has no credibility, crissy,no sensible person would venture a guess about what BC would say.
I hope if Obama settles for being HRC's vice president, you will try not to assassinate her so he can be president and you can be happy.  |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2620
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 12:05 pm: |
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LOL @ Cynique and Crystal! Only you, Chris, would consider being mistaken for a mass murderer a compliment. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2951
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 10:29 pm: |
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"I wonder what Bill Cosby has to say about this? Any guesses?"
What would he say? Probably that is was a tragedy and extremely unfortunate for all parties. Why? And why is any commentary from him about a mass murderer necessary? It speaks for itself. And why do you care what he thinks about this sordid occurrence? Just curious…. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6264
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 11, 2008 - 10:49 am: |
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And why do you care what he thinks about this sordid occurrence? Just curious….
(According to Cozzeroonie, the problem is poundcake stealing welfare mothers and drop outs who wear their pants down around their ankles.
Haw!
I have talked to a few people who knew this guy--again and again what is said that he was the last person they would ever have expected to do this.
Now, why did I post this?
This guy is all of us. You go on and on, taking insults, letting stuff build up, and then something comes along and you snap and you have done something you and others regret.
These folks did not deserve to die over what I am hearing brought it about. And now we got a man, black man, businessman, educated, who--when the chips was down--acted like a crip or a blood or somebody.
What kind of example is that for the youth?
All the white folks I talked to wondered how this could happen. None of the blacks wondered how, though everybody said he should have done something before he snapped.
This is really shaking up the area--they are holding candle light vigils, talking about how to resolve "the problem"
Is this what it takes? |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2627
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 11, 2008 - 10:56 am: |
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I would not be surprised if this man had serious--and, likely, un- or undertreated--mental health problems. People often say someone "just snapped" but that is rarely the case: There are usually subtle (or not so subtle) signs that those closest to someone like this misses, or chooses to ignore, or attributes to something else. Mental illness does not just impact one race or gender or education level. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11470
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 11, 2008 - 05:23 pm: |
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I agree, Yvette. This guy sounds mentally unbalanced, totally consumed by his real or imagined slights. Thousands of peope have grievances against the system, but only people like this fellow and chrishayden would get a gun and go out and kill 6 people. |
Ferociouskitty
Regular Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 18
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 12:37 am: |
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I'm reminded of the teenager in suburban MD who killed his parents and younger brothers recently. Reports sight "tension" between him and his father. It takes more than tension to cause that kind of carnage. Clearly, this boy had mental/emotional problems. |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 649
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 08:23 am: |
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Y'know, when people do horrible things like this I'm hesitant to label them "crazy" or "unstable" or "imbalanced," because I believe that gives them a free pass. I prefer to believe that the Charles Mansons of the world knew EXACTLY what they were doing and, if I had my way, the victims' families would be allowed 10 minutes alone with these animals. |
Ferociouskitty
Regular Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 20
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 02:05 pm: |
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Urban_scribe:
I agree that some mentally damaged people can be fully aware of their actions, and thus punishable. If I'm not mistaken, being "crazy" doesn't automatically get you a free legal pass. It has to be professionally determined that you were incapable of telling right from wrong.
However, I think we may have the opposite problem in this country: Some people who are truly mentally ill get sentenced to death because they couldn't afford savvy, concerned legal representation that could have had them declared incompetent.
I reviewed a book once, "Damaged Angels", and in it, the author posits that a good portion of those who go through the criminal justice system may well have fetal alcohol-related brain damage that has been "treated" as "bad behavior" throughout their lives--in other words, from birth, they never stood a chance.
If I'm not mistaken, a significant portion of the homeless population is comprised of mentally ill folks who got put on the streets when tax cuts in the 1980s cleared out the asylums. So before the tax cuts they needed to be locked up, but after the tax cuts they were all, miraculously, sane? I don't think so...
That's not to say we eschew personal responsibility, but I do believe that context matters when we look at the crimes people commit, and seek to determine sentencing and such.
Of course, as a victim or the loved one of a victim, all this social context might well go right out the window, understandably.
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