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Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 602
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 09:42 am: | 
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With Senator Obama's Iowa win, some commentators are declaring the end to racism. As if now we can forget 400 years of ongoing discrimination and racial hatred and call it a day?
It is ironic to me that the candidate deemed most palatable to white people is not a descendant of African slaves, rather someone who is half white and half black. I am still not sure Senator Obama can win the whole thing. We still live in a country where the Conferderate flag flies north, south, east and west. (Yes we see that symbol here in California)
I AM NOT blaming Senator Obama for this. He is what he is. I am glad he is benefiting from re-configured white guilt.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6042
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 10:08 am: |
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With Senator Obama's Iowa win, some commentators are declaring the end to racism. As if now we can forget 400 years of ongoing discrimination and racial hatred and call it a day?
(Nope, cuz the white folks ain't gonna LET ya fergit. Have a nice day) |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1021
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 12:13 pm: |
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Robynmarie, let me let you in on a secret; racism will persist long after we are dust.
However, in my quarter century of adult experience, the negative impact of racism comes more from within ourselves than from some external sources.
Case in point: It is absolutely astonishing that someone can say that Obama is "benefiting from re-configured white guilt"
It is your own, internalized, racism that makes it difficult for you to see that Obama is a viable candidate based upon merit not white guilt.
Lawd ham mercy!
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9778
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 12:40 pm: |
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Troy,
There are have been at least a half dozen Black foks other than Obama who've campaigned to be President.
Where was the "white guilt" vote for any of them? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11061
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 12:55 pm: |
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 What you guys keep overlooking is that what makes Obama palatable to white folks is that he belies the impression so many of them had of black folks. They find him acceptable because he is not, in their eyes, a typical negro, but one who acts and almost looks like them.
If this presidential race does nothing else, it separates the dreamers from the realists. |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1024
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 01:09 pm: |
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This is a fasinating conversation. I have a lot or work to do but I feel compled to weigh in here.
Cynique, as you know, I have oodles of respect for your intellect and experience.
Please define the characteristics of the "typical negro".
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11065
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 01:23 pm: |
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All I can say is that if Al Sharpton was running in Iowa, he would've come in dead last. The typical White person likes Blacks to be suave and non-threatening. |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1026
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 01:53 pm: |
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hummm...
Cynique, are you saying that Al Shaprton is a typical negro"? Or are you saying that the "typical negro" is not suave and is threatening?
"...suave and non-threatening" is that why some Black women do not support Obama. Is it that they "wanna little thug" in their president too? 
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11068
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 01:56 pm: |
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I agree that this is a fascinating subject, Troy, one where I can't help but play the devil's advocate. Come November when all of the smoke is cleared, who knows? The winner may have sold his/her soul to the devil.  |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11069
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 02:01 pm: |
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I'm not talking about black people, Troy. I'm talking about the perceptions of white people, who play a big role in Obama's ascendancy. His white supporters find him acceptable because, as opposed to the loud-mouth aggressive Al Sharpton, glib placid Obama is somebody whites are comfortable with. |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 603
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 02:23 pm: |
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Troy, if racism was only internalized, there would not be such a high number of black people in jail, in poverty, out of school, homeless and helpless.
Where I live the largest percentage of homeless veterans who get feed every Saturday in the park by some relief agency are black men. Did "internalized racism" matter when they were serving their country?
Senator Obama appeals to the black middle class because he is not talking about the the large number of have-nots in this country who happen to be black. He can pretend "Pookie" has created his own problems (which sounds like a Republican mantra) and be more acceptable to whites. More power to him! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9782
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 02:47 pm: |
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Robynmarie,
Obama has quite an admirable record fighting for the havenots. But he's trying to become president of the entire country, not just po' Black foks. And he's got to style his presentation and rhethoric in a way to facilitate that.
And, really, where is Clinton's and Edward's RECORD of doing more for Black havenots than Obama?
(~Jeopardy theme music~) |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 604
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 02:58 pm: |
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"The majority of Negro political leaders do not ascend to prominence on the shoulders of mass support. Although genuinely popular leaders are now emerging, most are selected by white leadership, elevated to position, supplied with resources, and inevitably subjected to white control."
Martin Luther King |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1027
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 03:01 pm: |
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Robynmarie, I did not say that racism was only internalized. My position is that the greatest impact of it comes from ourselves and not others.
The Black people I talk too who do not support Obama are firmly middle class, as well off as any white person in this country. It is not a class issue.
Besides the Black people you describe as "...in jail, in poverty, out of school, homeless and helpless." are a small segment of our population. Of course they get the most media covergage, but most Black people go to work or school and are just trying to raise their families and live their lives as best they can.
Cynique, I would not describe Obama as glib. But ignoring that for a second, since when does Al Sharpton become the barometer by which we gauge another Black person or Black presidential candidate?
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11075
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 06:02 pm: |
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Obama is quite articulate and suave, and very good at turning a phrase.
Al Sharpton becomes a barometer because he is a black leader who ran for president in the last election, one who has a reputation of being a spokesman for the black underclass, - one they can relate to. When it comes to whites, he is an anathema, the anti-thesis of Obama. |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1028
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 11:12 pm: |
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Cynique, how do you percieve Sharpton? |
Toubobie
Veteran Poster
Username: Toubobie
Post Number: 323
Registered: 08-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 03:54 am: |
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If Obama were a descendent of African slaves, if his name were "Leroy Jenkins" (for President) white folks would have turned up their noses to Mr. Jenkins' greasy fried-chicken eatin $ss.
Why is it so hard for us to realize that yt despises descendants of slaves? Why? Cause no matter how articulate we are, no matter how well we spit shine our shoes, we are perceived as po', grass-roots and powerless, who took on the names of our slave masters and that ain't sexy. we are a mistake in their eyes, an eyesoar... the dirty relative that lives with you, but you keep in the back room, all they way in the back.
It is that "Obama Osama bin Baracka" suckled at the breast of a pale face, that he speaks the queens english, AND that most of us greasy blackies DON'T dig him is what appeals to Iowan white folk. IOWA for goodness sake. It can't get any pastier than that... |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9784
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 04:04 am: |
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Troy,
My wife and I circulate some amongst Black political operatives here in Chicago. Most of them support Clinton NOT because of anything she's done for Blacks overrall. But because they feel indebted to her because of things Bill did for/with them and theirs. And they felt Hillary had the best chance to beat the GOP. Though, that was prior to Iowa.
Robynmarie,
Does Obama's actual RECORD as a politician, professional and citizen mean ANYTHING to his critics? Or is it easier to criticize him without referring to that?
And we should vote for Clinton or Edwards because Obama supposedly did not come up via MLK's concept of "the shoulders of mass [kneegrow] support"? |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 605
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 09:48 am: |
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Abm-your argument comes to down to voting for Senator Obama because he is the lesser of three evils. I guess that's what all elections are about.
Funny you should question Dr. King's assessment of Negro politicians. Dr. King knew what he was talking about. He understood even 40 years ago, that black politicians will ultimately be controlled by the folks who put them in power. Senator Obama is no different.
Do you also criticize Dr. King for his belief that folks should be judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin? |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2517
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 12:12 pm: |
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This is an interesting discussion. I am still reading and reflecting. One thought I have: in the past on these boards we have debated the current relevancy of "old guard" civil rights groups and tactics. Of course, we did not come to any sort of consensus on the issue. (Of course not! LOL) But one theme that has come up is the possibility that perhaps the old ways of protesting and fighting against racism were ill-equipped to deal with racism in its current day forms.
At any rate, I hve definitely been of that opinion. As such, I am more than willing to try different forms of leadership--including that of Senator (President  ) Obama's.
(As a side note, it is also interesting to note that most if not all of our "old guard" victories were considerably less than we may generally imagine them to be. They have all involved concessions, compromises, solutions that help Blacks or some Blacks without trimming too much off the teeth of Whites, etc. Several recent histories of Brown v. Board of Education are good examples of this.) |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2518
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 12:14 pm: |
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Toubobie, I am not sure I get your point. But I think it is important to point out that what you mention is one thing all of the current crop of main candidates have in common: they have all, as you put it, "suckled at the breast of a pale face." |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2930
Registered: 10-2005
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 12:16 pm: |
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"Robynmarie, let me let you in on a secret; racism will persist long after we are dust."
Unfortunately, this is true. Before coming here, I just finished reading a story about racism in the Secret Service. It was an interesting story about discrimination in promotions among very qualified black agents. The Secret Service has been stonewalling for federally requested records and data for quite some time now and the thumbing of the nose at a federal judge is shocking also. If it exists within a federal high security agency, you can imagine what is happening in the civilian sector.
"However, in my quarter century of adult experience, the negative impact of racism comes more from within ourselves than from some external sources."
On point. I have noticed this also and I have never understood it. The chicken shit comments and malevolent carping about this mans skin color and genetic heritage is more likely to come from intelligence challenged Negroes than whites. It's very sad and very telling....
"Case in point: It is absolutely astonishing that someone can say that Obama is "benefiting from re-configured white guilt" "
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! That's funny.......
"It is your own, internalized, racism that makes it difficult for you to see that Obama is a viable candidate based upon merit not white guilt."
True. If you have noticed, as I said before, it is disgruntled misguided Negroes who continually harangue about this mans skin color and question his "racial authenticity" (their words -not mine!). For the first time in American history, a black man is being taken as a serious candidate for POTUS. IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE! And his major supporters are whites who are feed up with the direction this country has been taken over the last seven years and looking for some kind of change -not blacks!!
Like him or not, the man is very articulate, dynamic and charismatic. Just the opposite of the self degrading clown in office right now. Would he make a good president? Hard to say. But we know he could never be worse or more destructive than the buffoon in the drivers seat right now.
For the record, I'm not an Obamanite. But I wish him all the luck in his quest for office. And so-called white guilt is meaningless and has no relationship to reality. NO ONE VOTES FOR A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE BECAUSE THEY FEEL GUILTY!! WTF...???? I look at Obama as a guy trying to win the White House just as I look at every other candidate. Why burden this man with extraneous and meaningless bullshit about his skin color or his racial heritage when he has to deal with critical and meaningful issues that could get him elected as the Democratic presidential candidate (e.g., occupation of Iraq, a meaningful war on terror, gasoline prices, the culture of corruption in the Belt Way, national educational issues, federal funding of stem cell research, possible Supreme Court nominations, etc, etc.....)?
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2931
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 12:20 pm: |
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"It is that "Obama Osama bin Baracka" suckled at the breast of a pale face, that he speaks the queens english, AND that most of us greasy blackies DON'T dig him is what appeals to Iowan white folk. IOWA for goodness sake. It can't get any pastier than that..."
 ......???????
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Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 606
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 01:50 pm: |
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and now that we have declared the end of racism, can we say goodbye to sexism too?
The media is rejoicing in Senator Clinton's setbacks, and letting their misogynism and overall contempt for women show with out filter.
Please, please, please, one day, any day a woman in the WH... |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6323
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 02:42 pm: |
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and now that we have declared the end of racism, can we say goodbye to sexism too? The media is rejoicing in Senator Clinton's setbacks, and letting their misogynism and overall contempt for women show with out filter.
I couldn't agree more. The one thing this election has taught me is that sexism is a much bigger problem than racism. Much much bigger. It's hard to fully appreciate this fact when you are a Black woman dealing w/sexism racism colorism classism, the whole nine yards. Cuz you can't tell which one is worse when they are altogether. But there is no doubt in my mind that had this been racism that Hillary Clinton was facing, Jesse Al The Black Panthers, even The Woman's Rights Organizations would have been ALL OVER this blatant piece of LYNCH MOB by now. Good lord. They'd be having a fucking heart attack!
I am so with you on this one Chile, one day...
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11078
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 03:25 pm: |
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Troy, in answer to your question as to how I perceive Al Sharpton, I would describe him as being - "authentic". He is what he is. A shrewd, slick dude who can get down with the boyz from da hood, but can hold his own with the likes of the garrulous Cornel West and Eric Michael Dyson.
Unfortunately for Sharpton, he comes across as more of a con man than a statesman. Do I think he's a typical black person. I have mixed emotions about this but I will stand by my observation that white people in the great midwestern heartlands of America stereotype him as the kind of "negro" they'd prefer to avoid. 
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11079
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 03:37 pm: |
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Wonder if a gay man with impeccable administrative crendentials, great intellect, uncanny vision, excellent diplomatic skills and outstanding foreign policy expertise could overcome America's homophobia to be elected POTUS. Why do I wonder this? The answer is, of course, "no". Which is why the 11-month presidential campaign is just a formality and a tradition. Whoever wins the election will be the person who sustains the least amount of intolerance. |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 607
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 03:43 pm: |
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Amen, sistah Tonya! One of the worse, I think you pointed it out, was Senator Obama's crack about Senator Clinton "having tea" with world leaders!!! As though women can't discuss matters of substance on a global level. We are only capable of gossip and sipping tea...C'mon!! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9787
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 04:35 pm: |
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Robynmarie,
Hillary was the First Lady. Not Secretary of State. She had NO official position, capacity or job function as a high government official. And she certainly was not elected to or confirmed by the Senate to do a dayam thing.
If performing as First Lady was sufficient qualification for being president, Nancy Reagan, Roselind Carter and Lady Byrd Johnson should have been presidents as well. |
Enchanted
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 1116
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 04:42 pm: |
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America IS ready for a woman president but They dont like Hillary Clinton an you all keep leaving that out She has no charisma, she running on husbands record an shes not a good speaker America has always despise Hillary becaus she an her IMPEACHED husband are crooked an dont have a real marriage She's the wrong "WOMAN" canddiate
tell me--would you ladies nominate kola to be president of aalbc when more than HALF people hate her an she's polarizing? then why are you surprized HALF OF WOMEN VOTERS dont want Hillary! its not becaus shes a woman its because she not the right woman to win an election people claim shes "dishonest" "elitist" "not warm" "conniving" "does not live with her husband" "never had a marriage" |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11082
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 04:46 pm: |
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You don't know what was going on behind closed doors when Bill Clinton was president. Historians report how Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, and Lyndon B. Johnson all relied on their wives to be their sounding boards and heeded their input when making decisions. When Woodrow Wilson suffered a stroke, his wife was, in effect, running the country, making the final decisions after consulting advisors. |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1032
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 04:56 pm: |
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Cynique, the perceptions of Al Sharpton that you attribute to white are probably shared by a majority of Blacks.
I not taken a scientific study, but I'm sure, if given the choice that majority of Blacks in the US would choose Obama over Sharpton (I defintely would).
Now there are few people I enjoy listening to more than Al Sharpton. He can talk rings around most professional speakers.
But Sharpton's failure to endorse Obama speaks volumes.
What ABM says about the politicians indebtedness is obvious and a disgrace. That our Black "leadership" is so indebted to the Clintons they they would forsake one of their own who is qualified. If the Obama campaign has done nonething else it has exposed the old guard Black leadership as what they are -- pawns of the Clintons.
This is EXACTLY why Barack is doing so well he IS change.
What do you want 32 years of Bush/clinton/bush/clinton?
Now if Barack is elected as POTUS; I guarantee you the most vociferous complaints will come from Blacks -- ourself hatred runs so much deeper than I ever dreamed. I thought selling drugs to and killing ourselves in the street was bad...
We, Black folks, are far more effective KKK ever was.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11085
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 05:06 pm: |
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Spare us all of your rumor-mongering,"enchanted". I guess in your estimation the ideal woman candidate who could get elected to the presidency would be someone who had a sunny personality, was an adoring wife, and never strategized and, like that vapid, gold-diggin, clothes horse Jackie Kennedy, would possess great charisma. STFU. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9789
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 05:07 pm: |
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Robynmarie,
I was not questioning MLK's view as much as I was questioning how your intepretation of such should effect one's voting. But I believe Yvettep made some very salient points about when, whether and how what was done generations ago should guide and influence what we think and do today.
Obama is NOT some perfect, Heaven-sent godling. He has flaws and he has and will make mistakes like everyone else.
But I believe their are elements of Obama's life, training and work that suggest he has and will continue to make admirable contributions to things and circumstances that positively affect Black people, whether or not he's elected President. |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 608
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 05:15 pm: |
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Abm-
I don't think anyone disputes the fact that Senator Clinton did visit over 80 countries when her husband was President. Do you think a woman the press describes as being so hardcore and hatable was sitting around drinking tea?
That's what Senator Obama believes the likes of HIllary Clinton, Benazir Bhutto were doing? Two of the most accomphlished women in the world?
The fact that Senator Obama doesn't even recognize the sexism in that presumption is extremely troubling... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11086
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 05:16 pm: |
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I think you're putting those who don't slavishly support Obama all in one box, Troy. Black folks do not have a collective mentality and those who don't support Obama may not do so for any number of reasons, one of which may be that they honestly think Hillary will make a better president. This self-hate thing is played out.
And I don't buy the significance of Blacks feeling obligated to support the Clintons. How obvious can it be that once they get in a voting booth Blacks, just like Whites, will vote for whomever they want to. Who will ever know?? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9790
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 05:28 pm: |
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Robynmarie,
I really don't know what Hillary was doing during those visits. (Nor, btw, do you and most of the rest of us.) But if she had no official position or capacity to perform any real US diplomatic or governmental duty or funtion, WTF should I give her credit for doing?
Sorry. I don't view Hillary the First Lady to even be anywhere in the LEAGUE of Benazir Bhutto the PRIME MINISTER. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9791
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 05:33 pm: |
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Troy,
If Hillary were elected and then re-elected we would have THIRTY SIX years of the Bush-Clinton Dynasty. I mean, the country fought a revolution and then later amended the friggin' constitution to prevent this kind of sh*t from occurring. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11088
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 05:39 pm: |
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Banazir Bhutto was voted out of office for the corruption her ineffective tenure was rife with, and she like, all of the ego-centric men who seek office was power hungry. She and Hillary are certain in the same league.  |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 609
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 05:52 pm: |
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If it were a man involved, say John Edwards, instead of Hillary Clinton, do you think he would have been accused of "sipping tea?" with world leaders?
The implication is that what men do is "real work" and what women do either officially or unofficially (like housework and raising kids) is unimportant. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9792
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 06:00 pm: |
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Robynmarie,
No. What Obama is saying is that FIRST LADIES casually socialize with world leaders. I seriously DOUBT Obama thinks that all Condi Rice, the SECRETARY OF STATE, is doing is sipping tea. |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 610
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 06:02 pm: |
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Benazir Bhutto was murdered trying to bring democracy to a shattered nation. I hardly see where that makes her like HC. Quite the opposite. If you notice the news coverage, the majority of those who supported Benazir, protesting in the streets were men. |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 611
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 06:07 pm: |
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Abm-
As you know, that's how most business gets done, "casually socializing" with people who make decisions. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11089
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 06:32 pm: |
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Come on, Robymarie, your statement that "Benazir Bhutto was murdered trying to bring democracy to a shattered nation" bears a lot of similarity to Hillary's situation. All you have to do is to make a few revisions so that your statement would read: "Hillary Clinton had her character assassinated while trying to practice democracy in a divided nation." |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 612
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 08:47 pm: |
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You're right, Cynique, there are similarities between the two women. Except many Pakistani men admired and respected BB whereas Senator Clinton seems to be universally hated/feared by the American male. I don't understand why. |
Enchanted
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 1119
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 09:02 pm: |
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excuse me Robin but Obama has pointed out his wife Michelle has done more "administering, decision making" than Hilary clinton an he brags on Michelle's "genius" endlessly so how is he SEXIST????? Hilary was the "Presidents Wife" an Monica Lewinsky could claim CABINET EXPERIENCE too right? Hilary has no more experence than Obama ...NOW Condoleeza would make a very experienced president an I doubt Obama would call her "tea drinking" |
Enchanted
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 1120
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 09:04 pm: |
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I was dead serious abot Monica btw. just becus "oralsex" doesnt mean she wasnt making decisions an learning from her "man" |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1035
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 09:29 pm: |
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Hillary Clinton is to Benazir Bhutto as Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is to Rev. Al Sharpton (sorry Al).
Chelsea Clinton went on a lot of trips too. I guess she is more qualified than Obama as well.
I don't think Hillary even had a security clearance. She did not have to the responsibility of making decisions she was not even involved in the conversations.
My wife is a school teacher. We talk about schools, teaching, the board of ed, students all the time. I'm pretty smart -- I've even spoken to a bunch of students in schools all over NY City.
But I would never attempt to twist that experience into MY years of experience as a teacher or put it on my resume -- who has the balls to do that?! Answer: Hillary Clinton.
She gets away with that cause she (her machine) has no respect for our intelligence.
The only reason Mrs. Clinotn ran for NY State Senate is because she was interested in running for president. She denied this was the reason but it was so, so obvious.
The Clintons control the NY State politcial machine (including the majority of the Black leadership) so victory was assured in NY State. Fortunately folks are beginning to recognize this...
ABM, I'm afraid Black folks have been so duped by the Clintons that they would weclome 16 years of Clintons and probably be looking for Rodger Clinton after Hillary's term is up.
I heard on the radio one of our so called "Black leaders" say that "...Bill Clinton probably dated more sisters that Barack Obama." They believe their own hype that Clinton was the 1st Black president... sickening.
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Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 614
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 10:00 pm: |
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Troy-you make my point. I thought Senator Obama's campaign was about transcending race. But all I hear from many of his supporters is that black people should vote for him. Either because he is black or because we should want to see a black family in the WH.
Where is this "new way of seeing things" Senator Obama is touting?
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9794
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 10:02 pm: |
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Troy: "Chelsea Clinton went on a lot of trips too. I guess she is more qualified than Obama as well....I'm afraid Black folks have been so duped by the Clintons that they would weclome 16 years of Clintons and probably be looking for Rodger Clinton after Hillary's term is up."
HAHAHAHA!!! Hell, if we get lucky, maybe they'll make Chelsea Vice President and their cat Secretary of Defense.
Troy: "Hillary Clinton is to Benazir Bhutto as Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is to Rev. Al Sharpton"
Dang, bruh. That's a lowblow. WTF Rev. Al ever do to you? Hahahahahahahaha!!! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9795
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 10:07 pm: |
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Robynmarie,
Why don't foks like you stop all the BS simplistic thinking?
Some of us are supporting Obama because he appears to be capable of being a good president, he's (at least partially) Black....and Obama appears to be ELECTABLE.
There have been OTHER Black candidates that Black foks have not supported because they didn't agree with the candidates records/positions AND/OR they did not feel the candidates were electable. |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 615
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 10:14 pm: |
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Support Obama if you will. Give his campaign money, make phone calls, attend rallies. Let your passions be your guide.
Also, let those of us who see it another way follow our hearts and passions too.
Black people are always critized for "group think" mentality, this is an opportunity to show we are diverse with differing opinions-even about Senator Obama.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9796
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 10:17 pm: |
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Robynmarie,
Hey. If it's more important for you to elect a White woman than it is a Black man, that on you. I think that's nuts given the people involved. But hey... |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 616
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 10:29 pm: |
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The major Dem candidates all have the same basic platform-left of center. The details of their plans vary, but the ideas are basically the same.
It is really a beauty contest: some want a man of color to win, some will support a woman, others want a handsome Southerner.
Did you happen to see ALL the candidates DEM and GOP alike on stage last night? Deals are being made. The process is not as pure as some would like to think. So even if Senator Obama is elected President, it will be business as usual.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11090
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 11:18 pm: |
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So Troy is equating the dreaded Hillary with Martin Luther King, huh? That puts her in pretty good company. And ABM agrees with him. So much for male logic. They can't even postulate a good theorum unless. of course, they think MLK was an undesirable person
You are engaged not in an exhange of plausible arguments, RobynnMarie, you are up against 2 racist, sexist, groupies awash in a particular emotional mindset that only afflicts the male of the species. Everything you say is reasonable and intelligent, RobynMarie. And their only response is to say that they hate that scheming ambitious Hillary and that she didn't learn anything from being the spouse of a president or a senator and, "what the heck, Obama might make a good quarterback - oops I mean good president and even it he won't, forget that. He's a black man. And anybody who doesn't embrace him for this reason needs to be kicked off the team." watta farce. I love it. I hope John Edwards wins.  |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11093
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 01:25 am: |
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There is also flawed logic in the contention that just because some people have unofficial experience and don't claim it as an asset, doesn't mean that they can't claim it as an asset if its to their advantage to do so. Experience is experience. (There are colleges that award degrees in "Life Experience" to anyone who attends a seminar and passes a comprehensive test.}
As for the "simplified" claim that Obama is "electable", the question remains who is it that Obama is electable against? Can he beat a white Republican?? |
Enchanted
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 1125
Registered: 11-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 03:08 am: |
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Robynmarie, cynique...you dont realize mothers like YOU are the reason Blacks were slaves for 400 years YOU were the one fighting aganst Harrie Tubman whn she said "no
more!"
Toubobie talkn bout whites treet African better than "there own" American blacks, well AS A BLACK AMERICAN think about this--YOU never freed yourself from slavery, you waited on sympathetic whites to do it---YOU acceptd the "one drop" rule a rule basicaly states you so inferior that ANY CROSS-STRAIN or TrashFish in a pond can BE U by rubbing up aganst you
YOU got free an still kept all the WHITE rule an standards--260 years later you reject non of they rule an standards
YOU spend half the day talkn bout what THEY think of you--WHAT WILL WHITE PEOPLE THINK OF US?
White Americans think of an African the same way they do a Chinese or a Polak or a Mexican--they think of "biracial" African even better becus its PART THEM--but notice they dont call it them
Africans are some trifling, poverty-strikken, stinking funky ass ape-faced superstitious sexist party-lov'n Mofos an the MEN ONES known for legendry greed an stupidity (lack of STRATEGY, imprezed by "shiny" objects, sell they Mama n heartbet)--but they gott there own names an they names is older than Euroope, they got the most unique originl look on planet earth they BORN buff or shapely an they BORN with SOUL an they hav 'standards' relate to IDENTITY an rules of hierarchy, they hav TRUE POINT OF ORIGIN and IDENTITY that no otha earthlings hav...Africans are YOU before you were YOU
Africans are teh HALF OF YOU that has not been all the way conquered. In doznes of ways white look at African an see "the authentic" art peace--though they OPPRESS IT they dont OWN IT
But they own you.
All you can speak is English.
Their languge,there clothng,there THOUGHTS.
What Black Americans SHOULD DO is what MalcolmX, Marcus Garvey, Sojourner Truth, Toni Morrison, Nat Turner TOLD YOU TO DO but your peoeple love white peeople too much an you want that WORTHLESS dream of MLKs insted of wantng a dream thats ABOUT YOU
Its nothng wrong with America--this is a good land of opportunty but why you expect "EQUALITY"?
The white man..he got to the gun FIRST.
Not Abuku.
White man an Abuku both the same, but white one got the gun first.
You want EQUALITY???? You talk abut "WE" when speking of White peeple but not Africans?
No--stop gong for EQUALITY
Instad, ask youself "how can I conquer?"
Smile, be freindly to whites--but have no interst in them. INDIFFERENCE to white.
With a smile.
"how can I conquer?"
As long as you skin darkr than a brown papr bag you dont have a choice who SIDE your on
It the white aganst th blacks 4 ETERNITY
the ones who know this will die
an rest in peace knowng they lfet there
powers to there childrn
The ones like Robymarie wil turn to dust
an be nothng to nobody
IN SHORT---YOU are an African
but naturly the whites respect teh ones they
did not OWN
its human natur
that s why they treat Africans bettr
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Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2520
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 08:23 am: |
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Also, let those of us who see it another way follow our hearts and passions too.
Agree, 100%, Robynmarie. Whoever you're backing: get involved. I hope those who have never or have rarely voted, vote. Those who have always voted but never contributed to a campaign, I hope they become a first time contributors. (Though Senator Obama's campaign is famous for its grass roots money-raising efforts, all will welcome even small donations.) For those who have given in the past, I hope they up their ante, too, perhaps becoming caucus delegates...
This is a great opportunity to become more involved in the political process. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6325
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 08:45 am: |
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Robynmarie, that's an excellent comparison, Bhutto & Hillary Clinton. So if Hillary does lose the nomination, I hope she makes the connection in her concession speech between what happens to leaders like Benazir Bhutto and what happened to her in the United States. She CAN NOT let this go unsaid. There are too many women & girls out there that would lose hope.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11094
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 10:40 am: |
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Well, "enchanted", I thought you didn't read my posts. Just another one of your lies. I'm sure you think you have something of note to say, but I'm not inspired to wade through all of your drivel to find out. Suffice to say, your earlier stance about wanting your sons to marry light-skinned women either proves that you are not who you say your are or that you are a hyopcrite. Moreover, if women prefer to see another woman in the white house as a role model for little girls, then they are entitled to feel this way without being villified and lectured to by some nutcase calling herself "enchanted. And your alter ego, kola boof almost peed on herself she was so thrilled when, a while back, she noted that her name was among prominent feminists being mentioned to organize a committee to run Hillary for president. That's the same kola boof who emasculates black men and despises people of mixed parentage. So - STFU. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11095
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 10:51 am: |
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To Yvette: I commend you for taking the high ground in this debate, and for wisely encouraging people to get invloed no matter who they are backing.
To RobynnMarie and Tonya: I salute you for having the courage of your convictions. It's ludicrous that others would try and diss you because you don't go along with their choice.
To Troy: I have a great amount of respect for you, and the passion and sincerity Obama inspires in you covers a multitude of sins. |
Moonsigns
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 2050
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 10:58 am: |
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Very interesting discussion! One I'm definitely enjoying!
My perspective: I don't feel Obama's "white" supporters do so out of guilt. Understandly, SOME whites can't be trusted; however, SOME can -moreso than (I think) many blacks feel/believe. The civil rights movement ushered in an era that forced people to build/live-in more diverse communities. Although the playing field is not yet where it needs to be, one cannot deny the strides desegregation has made. Obama - a non-white man - being seriously considered for the Presidency, is just one example (for all people) of the benefits of desegregration.
In my circle of (white) thirtysomethings, I'm hearing nothing but support for Obama- and it's because (I feel) my generation, especially those raised outside of major cities, benefited from the ideals of desegregation. We had the opportunity to be raised in diverse communities, where the dialogue between cultures/faith just began to happen when we (thirtysomethings) were young kids. Therefore, many white thirtysomethings, at least in my opinion, having Obama as president is natural - his views align with theirs. They have great respect for him as a man and possible leader. And while I definitely know that the whites I interact with aren't voting for him out of guilt, I will add that many of them embrace his heritage, because it's one more step in the positive evolution of our society. It's helping to bring to fruition the value of equality.
I'm so short on time today, so excuse me if this seems a bit of a ramble.
OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11098
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 11:22 am: |
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Yes, Moonsigns, it's no surprise that Obama would be acceptable to you and your friends. But you'd probably be very turned off by the gritty Al Sharpton if he was running for president because he has a tendency to tell it like it is in a manner that is threatening to those who pride themselves in being liberal. It's all about images; nobody pays much attention to the idea that campaign promises are a lot of hot air. Change, indeed. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2939
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2008 - 01:12 pm: |
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"Toubobie talkn bout whites treet African better than "there own" American blacks, well AS A BLACK AMERICAN think about this--YOU never freed yourself from slavery, you waited on sympathetic whites to do it---YOU acceptd the "one drop" rule a rule basicaly states you so inferior that ANY CROSS-STRAIN or TrashFish in a pond can BE U by rubbing up aganst you
YOU got free an still kept all the WHITE rule an standards--260 years later you reject non of they rule an standards YOU spend half the day talkn bout what THEY think of you--WHAT WILL WHITE PEOPLE THINK OF US? White Americans think of an African the same way they do a Chinese or......"
Hmmmmm.....this be an interetng thoughtt. i think you have idea that be good Encanted. But I dont agree with compleety all. but nice thinkiing and you idea make me think more abuot this.
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Jmho
Veteran Poster
Username: Jmho
Post Number: 323
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 7 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2008 - 11:20 am: |
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Ntfs_encryption wrote:
The chicken shit comments and malevolent carping about this mans skin color and genetic heritage is more likely to come from intelligence challenged Negroes than whites. It's very sad and very telling....
And then wrote:
If you have noticed, as I said before, it is disgruntled misguided Negroes who continually harangue about this mans skin color
His supporters mentions Obama's race, as much, if not more. In fact, for many that's their sole reason for supporting him. I suppose his supporters are also intelligence challenged Negroes, too, since they also seem to comment about his skin color.
As you say, it's very sad and very telling ... |
Simeon1
First Time Poster
Username: Simeon1
Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 06:31 pm: |
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In response to George Will's erudite Editorial in the NY Post, Wednesday, January 23, 2008
I hope the following message will not be relegated to the periphery of your scholarly acumen.
Barack Obama Making Black History & Dr. King's Dream a Reality
In addition to black contributions to Super Bowl 42 and Barack Obama Making a Difference as an Agent of Change; bringing us together again...
A Man Got To Do What a Man Got To Do
Presidential hopeful Barack Obama is a paragon example; anyone given the right opportunity in America can aspire to greatness:
Including the commander-in chief of the United States of America.
Barack Obama's got the unique distinction of bring us together in memory of Dr. King's Dream: and become the first elected black president of America. …
African American and all minorities should take pride in knowing you are a Worthwhile Person in More Ways than a Million. In this book you will find a plethora of hopeful optimism, and black contributions to this country and society at large.
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., expressed this statement when
he said: “If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should
sweep the streets even as Michelangelo painted, or
Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry.
He should sweep streets so well that all the host of heaven
and earth will pause and say, here lived a great street
sweeper who did his job well.”
Learn more from the author of You’re a Worthwhile Person in more Ways than a Million by Simeon Johnson
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Simeon1
Newbie Poster
Username: Simeon1
Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 09:58 pm: |
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On the campaign trail...The candidates should accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative.
The allusions to depicting Barack Obama’s cultural heritage in the news media as unfit for the Presidency of the United States of America—is a nefarious xenophobe act of bigotry. Learn more from the author of… You’re a Worthwhile Person in More Ways than a Million!
—Simeon Johnson
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