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Thumper
Veteran Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 508
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 07:18 pm: | 
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Hello All,
After reading the Nella Larsen biography, I got to thinkin, did we just go through a Renaissance? Unfortunately, I believe we did. And its over. Is the audience that bought up all those Terry McMillan books still with us? *eyebrow raised* Did it produce our new version of Langston Hughes or Zora Neale Hurston?
Basically, how are we looking? |
Nom_de_plume
Regular Poster
Username: Nom_de_plume
Post Number: 84
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 08:03 pm: |
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You know, I was just thinking about that myself since I started that Gentleman Jigger book. I believe we did too!
There's been good and bad though, namely the ghetto lit. But I hope that those readers mature and seek out other good stuff like I did when I was cutting my teeth on Jackie Collins, who I now cannot stand. LOL
I think it will only grow and improve in light of that hope... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12354
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 10:57 pm: |
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Maybe not a renaissance but a transformation, because the sleeping black giant Terry McMillan awakened was more about quantity than quality.
And all students of the Harlem Renaissance are familiar with what Langston Hughes sentiments were on this era. He dismissed it as a figment of the white literary establishment, a group of pedantic patrons who suddenly discovered a community of black writers doing what they had been doing for years; being creative. |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2307
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 11:13 pm: |
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Did it produce our new version of Langston Hughes or Zora Neale Hurston?
Not yet, Thumper,
But it did produce more than a few new Chester Himes and Iceberg Slims, so maybe the Renaissance is not over, but merely just beginning. Remember these writers were also accused of not representing black people well in their day.
Maybe the next generation of literary writers are in hibernation, waiting to spread thier wings and take flight.
It could happen... |
Thumper
Veteran Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 509
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 02:59 am: |
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Hello All,
A_womon: I don't know if its the writers who make up a Renaissance, or the book buying audience. The Renaissance ended, according to most of the experts, because of the Depression and money to buy books became scarce. Are we not in the middle of a recession? Did the sales of books drop?
Second, bringing up Chester Himes and Iceberg Slim is erroneous, because neither of those authors were a part of the Renaissance, both came after. I don't believe any of them were as famous in their life time than they are now in their deaths. Chester Himes couldn't get most of his stuff published in the United States. Outside of a small black audience, Iceberg Slim wasn't known.
It is true that some of the authors books from the Renaissance was not embraced by the black book buying audience (read upper and middle class black folks), but there were other books that were embraced, Larsen's Quicksand and Passing being two. Or, any book that featured light skin, or damn near white black women who talked and acted like Carole Lombard in the movies. But, didn't the current book buying audience embrace only ONE type of book, ignoring all the rest that didn't fit the one formula?
I guess I'm afraid that we didn't pay attention to the past and we repeated it. |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2309
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 07:21 am: |
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I don't believe any of them were as famous in their life time than they are now
Yes Thumper, and that is my point. Many writer's today have works that are not respected and are considered trash by many, maybe even most, just as Himes and Slim were in their day.
Things go in cycles. When the books that are today considered literary were on top and the only books available to us AA's, the upper and middle class (middle class is rapidly disappearing, by the way)were freezing out any attempts made by writers who were considered inferior and not literary. These "other" writer's were shut out of publishing.
Now that the shoe is on the other foot, the literary writers are claiming the same thing.
My prayer is that one day all genres of writing will be embraced by us and we will find a happy medium.
And yes, though the powers that be would deny it, we are in a recession. But hasn't the sale of everything dropped? Not just books. People are being more selective about everything they spend their money on now. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3013
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 08:49 am: |
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Thumper, by "renaissance" do you mean the word in the traditional sense of artistic revivals? You have obviously read much more than I have on this specific period (harlem Renaissance), but from what I know there was a similar attention to humanist ideas and ideals as in the "European Renaissance," but showcasing the "Black American experience" and had an accompanying revival in other art forms.
If all this is the case, then does TMc really belong in a description of a "new renaissance"? In other words, it wasn't just a great outpouring of work, but a great flood of work of a specific kind, yes?
Anyway, I am curious about which authors you think should be included in this (possible) recent renaissance, and which ones book-ended it. Who else from other artistic areas shoudl be included? Would this one, too, be centered geographically on NYC or is it more national (or international, even) in scope? If, as Cynique seems to suggest, the "Harlem Renaissance" was such just because some folks decided to name it, then I'd say anyone is free to name a more recent one. Why shouldn't that someone be Thumper?  |
Thumper
Veteran Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 513
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 12:01 pm: |
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Hello All,
Yvettep: You wrote, "If all this is the case, then does TMc really belong in a description of a "new renaissance"? In other words, it wasn't just a great outpouring of work, but a great flood of work of a specific kind, yes?"
Yes, exactly, a flood of work of a specific kind. Big house publishers couldn't get their hands on enough books by black authors to publish...kinda how it was a couple of years ago. *eyebrow raised* There have been black authors who were published before the Renaissance, Charles Chesnutt and Paul Dunbar are two that immediately comes to mind. But, the Renaissance was the first time that a good number of black authors, artists, entertainers were all being recognized and patronized at the same period of time. Like Hughes said, the Negro was in vogue. And so with Terry McMillan, yes, she was the start of the "new Renaissance" or more truthful way of saying it is "the latest Renaissance".
As far as which authors should be included in the recent renaissance. There's a good number. I believe that the period should be determined by the time it started to when it ended. There are a number of authors from the first Renaissance that we haven't read because their work haven't been republished. We hear about Hughes, Hurston, and Larsen because of their books have been put back into print. Today, we have lived through one. So, I would say that the recent Renaissance started with Waiting To Exhale and ended a couple of years ago, when black authors publishing contracts were not renewed due to poor sales. Its ironic because it seemed to have happened, the dropping of the contracts, roughly in the same window of time. Now, that is not to say that all of our writers suffered, for like the first Renaissance, some black writers were still being published that being group trickled down to a lucky few. I'm afraid, like the old Renaissance, only time will tell if the recent one truly ended.
I would not say that the recent renaissance was centered at one geographical location. But, I would say that a HUGE part of it centered around the internet. We, (on-line book stores, AALBC, you) are the factor that made the recent renaissance different from the old one. I disagree with Cynique, the renaissance was more than just a name, it was a time period, sure somebody named it the Harlem Renaissance, but I wonder what the last one will be called. I wonder will the name be as romantic as the Harlem Renaissance. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12355
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 12:10 pm: |
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I was referring to observations made by Langston Hughes when I said the Harlem Renaissance was an "artificial" concept. Hughes noted that the HR was a period during which the white literary establishment anointed talented black authors as if they had just appeared on the scene when, in fact, that had always been around but just weren't recognized. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 7036
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 01:19 pm: |
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I was referring to observations made by Langston Hughes when I said the Harlem Renaissance was an "artificial" concept. Hughes noted that the HR was a period during which the white literary establishment anointed talented black authors as if they had just appeared on the scene when, in fact, that had always been around but just weren't recognized.
(Most Movements are only named and recognized after they have happened.
Langston had this thang about being Sui Generis.
So far we have had several Movements
The Negro or Harlem Renaissance of the 20's
The Negro Protest Movement of the 30's and 40's
The Black Power or Black Arts Movement of the 60's
The Femnist Movement of the 70's
The Afrocentric and Black Arts Revival movement of the 80's and 90's
Currently we are in a genre or commerical movement.
The last people we produced on the order of a Langston and Zora are Toni Morrison and John Edgar Wideman and the folks who came along with them.
The commerical writers, of course, will produce nobody of this level and poetry is practically dead. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3018
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 12:08 pm: |
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Thanks, Thunper, for the expanded explanation/history lesson. (Though I see you did not take advantage of the license I gave you to name the period yourself LOL)
One thing I wonder is what role academic institutions may have played/be playing in this recent movement. Does having an official university affiliation help or hurt your ability to create great work? Does it change what folks write? Does it change the audience for the work?
I was wondering this more for authors who get univeristy positions after publishing for the first time. But there are also a crop of writers who have been profs first. I wonder the same things for them. I assume there also must be recent authors who do not work in academia, but who have undergraduate majors or minors in creative writing, or MFAs...
So, if this is true of a major segment of currrent Black suthors, then maybe part of what characterizes this movement is a kind of professionalization, or credentialling of Black lit. That might be something interesting to think about.
Chris, after reflecting on what Thumper said and thinking about the recent titles and authors I am aware of, I think that you may be correct about this: "Currently we are in a genre or commerical movement." That will make twice in one day that I have agreed with you about something. I think I may have to put off working for the rest of the day, take some medicine and rest a spell. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3019
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 12:10 pm: |
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Oh. Of course the above should read "Thumper." And I am aware that there is another pole to recent Black lit that does not fit this mold I talked about above (e.g., "street lit"). |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12373
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 01:12 pm: |
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All of these "movments" are indicative of how the black literary scene is not inert or stagnant, and that's a good thing! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 7056
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 01:18 pm: |
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Does having an official university affiliation help or hurt your ability to create great work? Does it change what folks write? Does it change the audience for the work?
(There is no doubt that having an official university affiliation is a help in getting your work published and promoted. Also, it helps with an audience because people take it for granted thatdegreed people know wht they are talking about.
I think it will affect the work. I think the writer who has a position in the Academy will be looking over his shoulder wondering what his colleagues, employers and the alumni think.
Publishing something considered controversial can cost you your job.
How about that professor who was denied tenure because he has been critical of Israel?
I was wondering this more for authors who get univeristy positions after publishing for the first time.
(They definitely get tamed)
But there are also a crop of writers who have been profs first
(It can be different. Terry McMillain was an academic first. I take it she has let all that go after Waiting to Exhale)
So, if this is true of a major segment of currrent Black suthors, then maybe part of what characterizes this movement is a kind of professionalization, or credentialling of Black lit
(Few great writers were also University Professors or teachers (at least not simultaneously) Friends of mine who teach tell me that teaching and grading papers, etc takes up all the energy they need to write.
This goes even more for those who teach literature or poetry.
I remember talking to a white poet who was driven to drink by "facing twenty students three times a week who did not give a ••••"
He wound up going to do factory work (and writing superior poetry)
That will make twice in one day that I have agreed with you about something. I think I may have to put off working for the rest of the day, take some medicine and rest a spell
(I used to have to do the same thang when I first started getting these fantastic revelations.
Now I just go get me some SWINE.
If you will notice, most people do their best work before they go to the Academy) |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 7057
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 01:25 pm: |
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All of these "movments" are indicative of how the black literary scene is not inert or stagnant, and that's a good thing!
(Now the powerful engine of creation that lies dormant in your mind is revved up and crackling!
All living things breathe--there are periods of expansion and contraction, just like inhaling and exhaling.
A period of expansion and stimulation will be followed by a dormant period.
Often this is illusory.
For instance, many of the revolutionary poets of the Black ARts Movement took teaching positions--as a matter of fact so many of them became teachers that I believe that it was all of a move to co opt them--one of the genuises of American society.
During this dormant period, they built up portfolios, resumes, bodies of work, what have you. They studied and internalized much of the spirit of the movement.
When the Neo Hip hop/Afrocentric/Black Arts Movement Revival rolled around, they were there to spearhead it, and use their expertise in cataloguing it, setting up anthologies, teaching etc.
I myself made my bones under such BAM participants as Shirley LeFlore, Eugene Redmond, Charles WArtts and K. Curtis Lyle.
They taught us writing fundamentals. Introduced us to the canon. Showed us how to set up readings, get funding, etc. |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2488
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 12:05 am: |
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i think there has been a renaissance in black fiction not necessarily African American fiction. Considering ChrisHayden's categories, we can call this Black World Literature:
If we look at the last ten years, we had zadie smith, juniot diaz, edwidge danticat, zz packer, colson whitehead, chimamanda ngozi adichie, chris abani, and many, many others.
If we take a serious look at the Harlem Renaissance, most of us can only remember four people, though if you pick up a HR reader, you will find at least a dozen writers, dozen playwrights and poets, etc . . . .I have named 7 of our recent stars in the last ten years . . . .danticat being the most celebrated . . .he is our langston hughes, if you will!
Greetings Thumper! |
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