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Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2309
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 11:46 am: | 
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Thoughts? Participants?
http://damaliayo.com/pages/reparationsday.html |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 10134
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 12:03 pm: |
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This is kinda like the NAACP dramatizing their stand on the N-word by having a burial ceremony for it. But this demonstration is a tad demeaning. I always have a problem with beggin and I have mixed feelings about reparations. I'm leaning toward the idea of providing free scholarships to average blacks kids who have a serious desire for a college education. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2311
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 02:49 pm: |
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Cynique, I agree that there are some parallels to the NAACP recent demonstration. I really, really like her art. Her "Rent-a-Negro" site (http://www.rent-a-negro.com/) is just classic. And her web site has several other very interesting things, like the Black History month flashcards. (She says she staples them to candy and hands them out to kids at Halloween--brilliant!)
But I do wonder at something like this Nat'l Day of Panhandling for reparations when it gets "scaled up" from something done by a single, highly creative, professional performance artist to something that regular Joes and Janes are doing. For example, will participants also see it as "performance art"? Or a protest? Will folks be prepared for the possibility (very real, in some places) for being arrested?
I am curious about these things, even as I find the overall move fascinating. And I do suspect that many people would have the same reaction you do to "begging" on the streets, no matter what the higher purpose may be. Anyway, like I said I am curious about this and especially would be interested in hearing about anyone's experience who will be participating. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2718
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 03:28 pm: |
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Ha! Ha! Ha! I thought it was funny. But I love parodies and satire. I'm sure that's what she is attempting to do here. The concept and validity of reparations makes as much sense as thinking a handshake can make you pregnant. I did like her "Rent-A-Negro" site also. That was equally funny although I think there was a more serious message that merits discussion and debate. Overhaul, I like these kinds of things. |
Imtiredowaiting
Newbie Poster
Username: Imtiredowaiting
Post Number: 17
Registered: 09-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 03:32 pm: |
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please don't laugh at my ignorance...but can someone enlighten me on the meaning of reparation day?
thanks
REGARDS
T |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 10147
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 04:29 pm: |
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Click on to the link Yvette provided in her first post. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 958
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 09:23 pm: |
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Reparations my behind. If the American Indian ever starts asking for theirs, then we'll all be floating in dingy's well past the horizon. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 10149
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 09:42 pm: |
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The Seminole tribes in Florida won their case for reparations. So did the loyal Japanese American citizens who were treated like traitors and imprisoned in detention camps during World War II. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 960
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 01:21 am: |
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In practice, reparations have usually been paid to those who were direct victims. In the case of descendents of African slaves, they're far removed, and therein lies the rub. |
Imtiredowaiting
Newbie Poster
Username: Imtiredowaiting
Post Number: 23
Registered: 09-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 07:10 am: |
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i dont agree with reparations
because this is 2007 not 1800
the slave trade has ended. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9702
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 01:09 pm: |
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I doubt there would be any significant number of African Americans asserting demands of reparations if Black foks were not being denied the right to vote during the 2004 Presidential Election and Black men weren't right NOW +17X as likely to do prison time as all other Americans. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2724
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 02:53 pm: |
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"In practice, reparations have usually been paid to those who were direct victims. In the case of descendents of African slaves, they're far removed, and therein lies the rub."
True...............
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5392
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 12:55 pm: |
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Money will not compensate me for the wrongs.
I want blood. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2741
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 02:43 pm: |
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"I want blood."
Well, get some.......
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Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 846
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 02:31 pm: |
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Yeah, tough guy, go get some blood.
Seroulsy, whose blood would you spill first? |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 550
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 03:52 pm: |
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Was it Clinton (Bill) who issued a presidential apology to Blacks for slavery?
I think that's as close to reparations Blacks can expect; especially considering that everyone with one drop of Black blood, who otherwise would never consider themselves Black, will come out the woodworks to claim their cut.
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2755
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 06:24 pm: |
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"I think that's as close to reparations Blacks can expect; especially considering that everyone with one drop of Black blood, who otherwise would never consider themselves Black, will come out the woodworks to claim their cut."
Good point. Since it will never, ever, happen (and for good reasons), why are Negroes expending and wasting all this time and effort for a fantasy? 
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Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2321
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 09:45 pm: |
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From a practical standpoint, administering reparations would be a disaster. How "Black" would ou have to be? For example, I can see White Americans doing DNA ancestry tracing to find a long lost Black great-grand in order to qualify. The only people who would get paid in such an effort, IMO, would be attorneys.
I would rather explore the possibility of the governments that made $ off of the slave trade giving reparations to the African continent--as a start, with debt forgiveness. But in that event we should not call it "forgiveness" as it is not charity, but social justice; it would be Africa doing the "forgiving" and not being forgiven... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 10205
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 12:36 pm: |
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Your alternative idea for reparations is a good one, Yvette, one that would put things to rest in a very civilized way. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2759
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 06:53 pm: |
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"How "Black" would ou have to be? For example, I can see White Americans doing DNA ancestry tracing to find a long lost Black great-grand in order to qualify. The only people who would get paid in such an effort, IMO, would be attorneys."
Ms. Yvettep, once again, 'why are Negroes expending and wasting all this time and effort for a fantasy that will never happen?"
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Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2324
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 07:07 pm: |
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Ntfs, I wonder on some level if it is more symbolic than anything else. I honestly do not know. Now what I can see happening is encouraging current day institutions who can be documented to have benefited from the slave trade to fully research and disclose their involvement, and to create some sort of funding or other programs to educate and support civil rights causes.
This has been done, I think, with at least one insurane company, and of course Brown University embarked recently on a highly publicized effort to do something like this. I think it would even be worth it for outside research firms to look into the histories of present day companies and their prior corporate incarnations in order to "shame" such companies into facing up to the fact that they exist, in part, on the backs of slave labor.
I also think it would be perfectly worthwhile for groups of descendents who were, for example, driven out of towns and whose businesses and homes taken illegally to try to seek legal redress. (Though in this case, even, the attorneys may be the ones who actually cash in and the descendents' victories may be largely symbolic.)
Beyond these types of efforts, though, I do not think that reparations for survivors of the US slave trade are a worthwhile thing to seek at this point. Like I said, though, I would fully support efforts to explore ways that Africa can be compensated for generations of rape and plunder of its natural and human resouces. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2325
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 07:24 pm: |
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Not trying to be a school teacher or professor or something ( ), but did anyone exlplore the site or listen to the audio program? What did you think?
In the audio program I found it especially interesting the reaction she got from the Black people that she "paid" their first reparation money to from the amounts she collected from Whites.
The "White rage" responses were interesting as well--probably the reactions are no surprise to many folks here.
She claims that she does this, in part, with the goal of starting dialogue about the topic--and the fact that she is a real person on the street makes it hard for passers-by to ignore. I wonder about that. Or rather, I wonder if this kind of thing creates new discussions with new discussants, or if it just gives people who are already predisposed to discussion further opportunity to talk.
Anyway, I am looking forward to finding out how the "mass performance" goes. So far 45 people have signed up as participants on her site. And of course there is still time for anyone else who is interested to sign up.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9717
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 08:10 pm: |
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Yvettep,
I am ambivalent about reparations. However, if Africa is due or are worthy of some form of reparations, why wouldn't African Americans - the living, breathing embodiment of what was done to Africa - NOT be due such? |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2326
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 08:50 pm: |
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If you read my comments, I never said anything about what was or wasn't "due," ABM. My point is that any honest attempts to repay African Americans would be a pragmatic nightmare. In the end I feel sure that it would fail on many counts--unless one is an attorney who would be trying the many cases and appeals and class action lawsuits and whatnot.
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2760
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 09:34 pm: |
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"However, if Africa is due or are worthy of some form of reparations, why wouldn't African Americans - the living, breathing embodiment of what was done to Africa - NOT be due such?"
ABM, because they're not!
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9719
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 09:41 pm: |
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Yvettep,
I don't see it as being as problematic as you allude to. I mean, assuming you're going pay some form of recompense to African Americans, you establish some qualification criteria and those who meet that criteria get something.
And those who don't...don't.
Sorry. But I can NOT rationalize America paying a dayam thing to Africa for past crimes if a similar effort is made to what has not been done for Black people HERE.
Especially when I as an American BLACK person (who's ONE generation removed from JIMCROW/SHARECROPPING/COTTONPICKIN') and TAXPAYER would probably be indirectly FINANCIING whatever Africa/Africans get. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2328
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 10:05 pm: |
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And those who don't...don't.
And those who don't...SUE!
Seriously:
What "form"? How much? What would qualify as "African American"? (For example, would folks who came here from the Islands, post slavery era be elligible?) Who would be establishing these criteria? What would qualify someone to be part of this qualification process? And anyway wouldn't Black folks' tax dollars be helping to fund our own "reparations"? And speaking of tax dollars--if large numbers of White (and other non-Black) Americans are critical of efforts like affirmative action, they'd somehow be willing for their tax dollars to be used for reparations???
No, I am willing to bet the farm that even if some effort were approved later tonight, it would be 20 years before anyone began getting paid and another 20 years of further court battles. And in the end you'd be lucky to get $100. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2329
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 11:13 pm: |
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ABM, let me add that I am not advocating "reparations for Africa" in place of reparations for African Americans. Rather, I am interested in and trying to educate myself about the many debt relief programs already being proposed for the continent. I think it might be worthwhile to try to re-frame much of this talk away from "charity" and more toward something that is owed. And I think these efforts might be a way to help African nations get out from under this burden that they otherwise might never be able to realistically pay.
I agree with you about some repayment being necessary for Jim Crow era offenses. They are much closer in time, and there are still descendants alive (even direct participants). But I think the only way they will be able to be successful is if they are tied to specific instances of wrongdoing, and not some general payment of money to all African Americans.
And like I said, I am a firm and enthusiastic supporter of the "corporate restitution movements" tied to slave trade profits, even though most Blacks will not see individually doled out payments from any of these efforts.
Maybe I am just pessimistic. I would love to learn about efforts that are feasible and I'd love to be proven wrong about the litigation issues and lack of broad based public support for such efforts. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2369
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 07:34 pm: |
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Follow-up: http://www.flickr.com/photos/damaliayo/sets/72157602252100202/ |
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