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Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 917
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 04:10 pm: | 
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Given that Michael Vick has "admitted" to felony charges in relation to dog fighting, would society be better served if he was given the option of playing out his entire $130 million dollar contract and forced to donate 50% of his earnings to the ASPCA, youth programs, seniors programs, public aid programs for the poor, and the like.
Though some might say that failing to incarcerate him on non-human injury charges would only force people (accused of similar 'class' crimes) who don't have any financial means "to serve" prison time instead, perhaps he and all of the others like him could be of more value to society in other ways.
Imagine, if every person (who had jumbo $$$ and was convicted of similar crimes) was basically "forced" to rehabilitate and "pay the piper" bigtime, multiple benefits could possibly be achieved ranging from 1) significant financial injections into the public domain from the convict's substantial earnings, 2) public savings from not having to pay for incarceration, 3) setting of new standards of behavior for those who can pay, and more.
We're not talking about who can pay and who cannot here. We're talking about floating an option that the convictee would have to agree to, so as to avoid conflicts with the Fourth Amendment.
Any thoughts? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9707
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 05:34 pm: |
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When you put a price on an offense, then you get into value judgments. Would some felonies cost more than others? Would some charities rate higher than others? Who would determine a fair price for a crime. If a person wants to voluntarily pay their debt to society with money, then they can do this without any court action. And lawyers would probably be miffed over such a set-up because it would cut down on clients wanting to sue rich people.
Maybe Vick could redeem himself if he provided some financial aid for all of the human victims killed and maimed by vicious pit bulls. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 918
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 09:15 pm: |
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Cyn --
Good points, and well taken. It's an interesting case overall. Yes, financial tradeoff's are bad, and do set a terrible example. Though on the outside, my thinking was (how could a constructive, beneficial and punitive) consequence be crafted to the advantage of many? Hmmm... The jury's still out on that one. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2598
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 02:50 am: |
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"Given that Michael Vick has "admitted" to felony charges in relation to dog fighting, would society be better served if he was given the option of playing out his entire $130 million dollar contract and forced to donate 50% of his earnings to the ASPCA, youth programs, seniors programs, public aid programs for the poor, and the like. "
Nope. If he decided to donate some of his money to Animal Angel, SPCA, a Pit Bull rescue society, etc, that would be a positive step towards his redemption and his effort to demonstrate some level of restitution for what he did. But letting him of the hook for his inexcusable poor behavior and reckless personal decision making, by giving up some dollars, would be putting a price on his crime not to mention sending the wrong message. What if some disheveled ignorant red neck or hustling gangsta wannabe Negro was convicted of the same crime? Should they go to jail simply because they cannot provide big bucks for their crime that Vick's can? I don't think so.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5150
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 01:08 pm: |
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When you put a price on an offense, then you get into value judgments. Would some felonies cost more than others
(This is precisely what the law does. It provides for a graduated system of fines starting for small ones for infractions like traffic offenses to very large ones for felonies.
I guess when you are without sin like Cynique you are unaware of this litte fact...
Sheesh. If you gotta be a know it all, you ought to be sure of your facts. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9713
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 01:56 pm: |
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So does this mean you agree with Nel's proposistion, chrishayden? If not, why?? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5154
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 02:04 pm: |
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I agree with it, but I wouldn't have him give 50%. Much less. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9715
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 02:11 pm: |
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So instead of serving time, it should be mandatory that rich people pay for their crimes by donating a portion of their money to good causes? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5156
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 02:47 pm: |
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So instead of serving time, it should be mandatory that rich people pay for their crimes by donating a portion of their money to good causes?
(When it is fitting, yes. They rarely serve time anyway. They get good lawyers to get themselves off the hook or buy Presidential pardons.
It is counterproductive to society that they be locked away not making more money and paying more taxes and contributing.) |
Jmho
Regular Poster
Username: Jmho
Post Number: 252
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 03:42 pm: |
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Chrishayden wrote:
When it is fitting, yes. They rarely serve time anyway. They get good lawyers to get themselves off the hook or buy Presidential pardons.
I was thinking that's the way it is now, too. Nearly all of those who are incarcerated are poor. If they had money they wouldn't be there, or be there as long.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9717
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 03:51 pm: |
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Who decides when it's "fitting" for the rich to pay for their crimes, since rich people can buy people off? |
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 1025
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 01:31 am: |
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some felonies are a lot worse than others. but you can't let people just buy their way out of everything... even though realisticly that's the way it normally goes. i wonder if vick would've had it worse if he had been white? i think he is going to get a little slack because he is black. i don't think he should be crucified for the dogs, but maybe i would have felt that way if the dogs where jack russel terriers instead. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2606
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 11:36 am: |
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"but you can't let people just buy their way out of everything... even though realisticly that's the way it normally goes."
This is so true. Yes, people with money receive a different type of justice than those who do not. It's always been that way in every country and in every culture. It's not going to change now. But it's blatant nature is unnerving (to those at the receiving end of not being able to afford blue chip legal representation). But let's see how Lisa Nowak fairs. Even with a good defense attorney and coming from a very privileged celebrated life, I doubt if her insanity defense will work. But to be honest, I really do believe this woman lost her mind.
"i wonder if vick would've had it worse if he had been white?"
Hard to say. But it doesn't matter. Vicks is guilty of everything he is charged with. The physical evidence was over whelming. The best any lawyer could do for him was pleas bargain (which is exactly what they did). But as predictable as ice in the Antarctic, Negroes will instinctively howl and moan in agony whenever another criminal Negro is hauled off into court for a crime. I'm not defending the inconsistencies justice system, just the circling of the wagons and shameless defensive bluster of criminal Negroes.
"i think he is going to get a little slack because he is black. i don't think he should be crucified for the dogs,....."
Hard to say again. As I stated previously, I take no glee in seeing him go down, but he was guilty of the accused crimes and I don't have much sympathy for people who drown, beat, electrocute and shoot dogs for not being aggressive enough to win them money.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9723
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 09:36 pm: |
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I don't know who's worse. Michael Vick or Leona Helmsley, the billionaire hotelier who passed over 2 of her grandchildren and left her mutt $12,000,000 in her will. Puleeze. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 920
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 09:42 pm: |
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Dobie --
"but you can't let people just buy their way out of everything"
Just imagine if this was Bill Gates or Warren Buffett committing an "equilavent" crime. Buying your way out to the tune of a billion dollars a year, or whatever they're earning? They'd probably choose prison over letting those Benjamins slip away. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 921
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 09:45 pm: |
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Leona Helmsley was and still is the "Queen of Mean". With all of the poor people in the world who could be fed. So sad, indeed. But that's ok, the "Wicked B.i.t.c.h IS Dead". Ding Dong. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 5633
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 10:21 pm: |
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I wonder who Fido's beneficiary is. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 922
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 07:28 pm: |
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Mzuri --
"I wonder who Fido's beneficiary is."
Nice angle. |
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