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Sabiana
Regular Poster
Username: Sabiana
Post Number: 149
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 04:21 am: | 
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(AP) When Vonnessa Goode gives birth in a few weeks, one of her first decisions could be among the toughest: whether to give her daughter a distinctively black name.
On the one hand, Goode and the child's father don't want their daughter "robbed of her ethnicity," she said. On the other, she believes a distinctively black name could end up being an economic impediment.
"I do believe now when a resume comes across an employer's desk they could be easily discriminated against because they know that person is of African-America descent," she said. "It's a difficult decision."
Minorities of all kinds have wrestled with whether to celebrate their culture by giving their children distinctive names, or help them "blend in" with a name that won't stick out. Thousands of Jews have changed their names, hoping to improve their economic prospects in the face of discrimination, as have Asians and other minorities.
Blacks, however, have chosen increasingly distinctive names over the past century, with the trend accelerating during the 1960s.
Researchers who have looked at Census records have found that 100 years ago, the 20 most popular names were largely the same for blacks and whites; now only a handful are among the most popular with both groups. Names like DeShawn and Shanice are almost exclusively black, while whites, whose names have also become increasingly distinctive, favored names like Cody and Caitlin.
Two recent papers from the Cambridge-based National Bureau of Economic Research draw somewhat different conclusions about whether a black name is a burden. One, an analysis of the 16 million births in California between 1960 and 2000, claims it has no significant effect on how someone's life turns out.
The other, however, suggests a black-sounding name remains an impediment to getting a job. After responding to 1,300 classified ads with dummy resumes, the authors found black-sounding names were 50 percent less likely to get a callback than white-sounding names with comparable resumes.
If nothing else, the first paper, by the NBER's Roland Fryer and the University of Chicago's Steven Levitt, based on California birth data, provides probably the most detailed snapshot yet of distinctive naming practices. It shows, for instance, that in recent years, more than 40 percent of black girls were given names that weren't given to even one of the more than 100,000 white girls born in the state the same year.
The paper says black names are associated with lower socioeconomic status, but the authors don't believe it's the names that create an economic burden.
Using Social Security numbers, they track the changes in circumstances of women born in the early 1970s who then show up in the data in 1980s and '90s as mothers themselves. The data also show whether those second-generation mothers have health insurance and in which Zip Codes they reside - admittedly imperfect measurements of economic achievement.
The data do appear to show that a poor woman's daughter is more likely to be poor when she gives birth herself - but no more so because she has a distinctively black name.
To Fryer, that suggests black parents shouldn't be afraid to choose ethnic names. It also, he says, suggests more broadly that for blacks to improve economically, they don't have to change their culture, but should push for greater integration in society.
"It's not really that you're named Kayesha that matters, it's that you live in a community where you're likely to get that name that matters," Fryer said.
The University of Chicago's Marianne Bertrand and MIT's Sendhil Mullainathan, however, appeared to find that a black-sounding name can be an impediment, in another recent NBER paper entitled "Are Emily and Greg More Employable Than Lakisha and Jamal?"
The authors took the content of 500 real resumes off online job boards and then evaluated them, as objectively as possible, for quality, using such factors as education and experience. Then they replaced the names with made-up names picked to "sound white" or "sound black" and responded to 1,300 job ads in The Boston Globe and Chicago Tribune last year.
Previous studies have examined how employers responded to similarly qualified applicants they meet in person, but this experiment attempted to isolate the response to the name itself.
White names got about one callback per 10 resumes; black names got one per 15. Carries and Kristens had call-back rates of more than 13 percent, but Aisha, Keisha and Tamika got 2.2 percent, 3.8 percent and 5.4 percent, respectively. And having a higher quality resume, featuring more skills and experience, made a white-sounding name 30 percent more likely to elicit a callback, but only 9 percent more likely for black-sounding names.
Even employers who specified "equal opportunity employer" showed bias, leading Mullainathan to suggest companies serious about diversity must take steps to confront even unconscious biases - for instance, by not looking at names when first evaluating a resume.
Both studies have their shortcomings; the California records give only broad indicators of economic achievement, and studying whose resumes elicit callbacks doesn't show who ultimately gets the jobs or what they do once employed.
But both also point to dilemmas for advocates of greater economic opportunity for blacks. Some, like Fryer, are eager to show black culture isn't a handicap, and black parents shouldn't shy away from it. On the other hand, Bertrand and Mullainathan's work suggests a black name could still conceivably hold someone back. The question is whether a distinctive name is a cause or consequence of black isolation.
Where is Goode leaning? She says her daughter will likely end up with a "neutral" name, Naomi or Layla perhaps, that won't signal her race either way.
Michelle Botus, a 37-year-old student at Bunker Hill Community College who has named her four children Asia, Alaysia, Khalima and Denzil, said she would advise mothers to choose names they like, then make sure their children get the education they need to rise above any discrimination they face.
"The fact you didn't give the child the name you wanted, your regrets could be manifested in other ways later on," said Botus. "I would say go for it. Just the fact that the mother would have the insight to have a dilemma, that means she's thinking, and that's one of the most important skills in parenting."
By Justin Pope
©MMIII, The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
_________________________________________________________________________
What do you all think? |
Sabiana
Regular Poster
Username: Sabiana
Post Number: 150
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 04:30 am: |
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Bacari
Briadria
Brownetta
BriJourne'
Bre'niyah
Brynaeja
Branda-Nae
Blonzell
BaKaiya
Bri'Niona
----------------------------------------------------------
How are these any different from dumbass "white" names like "Dawn", or "Spring", or "Jhenifer"? Or any other hippie name?
I think it is so much as associating these names with being "ghetto" & black = therefore ignorant.
Which, any way you look at it, is racism (not realising or not).
I know personally some Black People feel the same way.
So should we name our children "White Sounding' names, such as Mary etc.
Is this cross-cultural?
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Brownbeauty123
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 2061
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 07:34 am: |
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My sister has a very ethnic name and it has never came in the way of her getting jobs--she has worked for several corporate companies. So, I don't know how true this is.
And, if you do give your child a white or neutral sounding name, what good is it going to do if the employer invites you in for an interview and sees that you are Black? |
Brownbeauty123
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 2062
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 07:35 am: |
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"Is this cross-cultural?"
Yeah. There are so many Asian women who change their name to "Kim" or "Kimmie". |
Kola_boof
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 4662
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 09:33 am: |
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Sabiana, my sister's name is "SPRING". LOL!!!! 
She almost looks white, though.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9518
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 10:18 am: |
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Having a Black or ethnic sounding name sure does NOT appear to have hurt Oprah, Barack, Condelessa, Beyonce or Denzel much.
*shrugs* |
Brownbeauty123
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 2063
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 10:53 am: |
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ABM, some of the ppl you mentioned are entertainers. They work in an industry where it is an advantage to have a very unique and creative name |
Sabiana
Regular Poster
Username: Sabiana
Post Number: 151
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 11:33 am: |
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Abm, I'm not saying this affects every black person with a "unique name". What bothers me is that anything that diverges from the typical "white sounding" or whatever dominate white culture is naming their children-is automatically labled (particular black originating names.)
Its stereoyping. Yes, there are some dumb, ignorant, irritating black folks out there. But then there are dumb, ignorant, irritating white folks out there also.
So how come so much is put in a name?
I agree with Brown B. These people are well known. I'm talking about the average joe.
The people reading/deciding for interviews already make these assumptions.
I'm saying this particular to the business world and the like. (to be specific).
Not necessarily every facet of life.
THEN again....people will judge you anyway.
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Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2426
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 11:35 am: |
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Denzel is an English name that hasn't been popular there in a long time.
I have one cousin named: Aquaviantequesarious. I am not fucking kidding. He's about 3. I don't even remember his new little brother's name.
Pronounced: Ay-quay-vee-an-tay-qwe-sa-ree-us
I don't see a bad thing with "black sounding" names. But that's just fricking ridiculous.
I have another cousin named "Chinese". That's just silly. |
Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2427
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 11:38 am: |
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I'm maybe one of three people in my family who even REMEMBERS that name. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9521
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 11:39 am: |
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BB123,
I included the names of entertainers because they are foks we share awareness of. But I know PLENTY of foks with very ethnic sounding name who are doing quite well for themselves in all kinds of fields of endeavor.
I think the name issue is gross overblown. Especially when you reach a level of endeavor where the importance talent, skill and effort trumps all else. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9522
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 11:40 am: |
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Sabiana,
I don't really care whether I have what others consider a Black-sounding name. I'll I require is that when they refer to it the spell and pronounce it correctly and respectfully. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9523
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 11:45 am: |
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Renata: "Denzel is an English name..."
So were originally Tyrone, Derrell and Leroy? You see many WHITE American lately who have THOSE given names? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9524
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 11:46 am: |
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Renata: "I have another cousin named "Chinese". That's just silly."
I know a White woman named China. Is THAT better? |
Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2428
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 11:52 am: |
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That's silly, too....LOL. I know a FEW women named India. And a couple named Asia. And one named THAI.
In the south, white people still use the name Darrell....at least in my generation. I don't know about the new generation.
When my son was born, I wanted to give my son a particular name.....and if I had named him that, my husband and I would still be fighting.
It's a Japanese name. From the 17th century. That denotes military personnel. |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 424
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 11:56 am: |
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LOL....if only you guys knew my name. It isn't 'black sounding' but it is rather unusual. I get compliments for it more than anything. |
Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2429
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 12:09 pm: |
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I have an unusual name, too. I'm not crazy about it, but not because it's black sounding....I just don't like it in particular. It has no flair. It sounds kind of flat to me.
I wish my mother had instead named me something that I used to tell strangers was my name: LaShanequa Shaquan. |
Kola_boof
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 4664
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 12:12 pm: |
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Renata: "Denzel is an English name..."
Not anymore.
Seriously.
About 200,000 black male newborns worldwide
are named "Denzel" each year.
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Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2430
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 12:22 pm: |
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This reminds me of something I read on the web weeks ago....some famous dude (I can't remember who) named his daughter:
Moxie Crimefighter. That's just psychotic.
Kola, I had no idea that THAT many Denzels are being born! |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 5252
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 12:34 pm: |
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Here in the U.S. the first name is referred to as the Christian name and the tradition is to name your baby something that sounds nice. The problem that most people have with Black sounding names is that while some are bonafide African names, most are made-up invented names. They have no real meaning, standard spelling or pronunciation. And so if you have one of these made-up names and your resume lands on Mr. Charlie's desk, if he can't pronounce your name you're not getting the job. You'll probably miss out on other opportunities as well, from both the Black and the white community. People are overly judgmental, that's just the way it is.
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Sabiana
Regular Poster
Username: Sabiana
Post Number: 154
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 12:57 pm: |
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Mzuri, I actually agree with you, lol. But Boquesha will not be hired as fast as Qwennifer, or Pstephen.
Okay, I know this is a little off topic, but how about bad baby names? What is the worst one you heard?
You know, one of my pet peeves is people crazy ass names for babies Examples: (these are all first and middle names.
Karryllinne Sweet
Charnecia Essence
Joycelin Corin (not bad)
Keryona Shaleen
Jevonnie Cortez
Elyzibythe
Ginapher
Krystofer (alright)
Mikol (come on now!)
Suezynn (I guess)
Pstephen (I stared at this for a good ten minutes.) piss tepen?
TRUE STORY!!!!
My mother works at the hospital. One new mother actually named her child, yes....Asholey. Not Ashley. Asholey. Which would be pronounced AS-SHO-LEY. Oh the fun that child will have in school.
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 5256
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 01:15 pm: |
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When I was employed by Dept of Army I maintained class rosters of the soldiers who came to the base for their military specialty training and I saw some crazy names. I was privy to their race because it was part of the record.
White boy named Kristopher K. Knight (that doesn't go over real well when most of your chain of command is Black people)
Black man named Enjoli (women's perfume)
There were some others named after products that I can't recall
White boy named Jack Frost
Some of the Black female soldier's names were the standard fare - Laquisha, Lashondra, etc.
I got the distinct impression that many parents don't consider the feelings or future burdens of the child when they bestow these odd names upon them. It's almost like they are playing a prank on their own children or they treat the naming process as a joke.
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Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4892
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 02:07 pm: |
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When I was employed by Dept of Army
(Were you "separated" after the recent unpleasantness at Abu Ghraib?) |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4893
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 02:09 pm: |
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A name is supposed to mean something. You can choose African, Asian, Norwegian, whatever as long as it is a real name.
These names don't mean anything. They are just a collection of sounds that sound pleasant to the ignorant.
Additionally I am wholly opposed to giving a child a weird name. Why make an innocent child participate in your trip?
Remember that song, "A Boy Named Sue?" |
Kola_boof
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 4675
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 02:17 pm: |
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Asholey. Not Ashley. Asholey. Which would be pronounced AS-SHO-LEY. Oh the fun that child will have in school.
How sad.
She might have been trying to name
the child "ACHOLI" which means
"goddess earth and her descendents
"...and is pronounced
"Ahh-Sho-li".
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 5265
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 02:19 pm: |
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No Darling. I was not separated, but thanks for asking. I was a DA civilian for a little over 20 years until I took an early retirement so that I could work on my business.
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Kola_boof
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 4676
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 02:21 pm: |
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TO ALL:
Enjoli was a great warrior who
was commanded by ShakaZulu.
I could understand a black mother
passing this name to her son.
I've never heard of the women's
perfume by that name, though I
don't doubt it exists.
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Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 5266
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 02:28 pm: |
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Post your proof please. Thank you.
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Kola_boof
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 4677
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 02:30 pm: |
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Btw Sabiana,
Acholi (pr. Ahh-sho-li) is a tribe
in Uganda.
Have you ever noticed how some African
names that look strange on paper...sound
very beautiful when correctly pronounced?
A comrade of mine is the writer:
Meri Nana-Ama Danquah
When I first saw her name, I hated trying
to pronounce it.
But once I heard it pronounced...it sounds
like ONE WORD (not 4)...and is very lovely
on your tongue.
Here--
You pronounce it:
Mary/Nama/DAH-K-Wah
MaryNamaDOK-wah
Here's a beautiful name from my country:
NoorpaniPatra
Noor-Pani-Patra
(light up all life) *female
In my book "Flesh & Devil"---a mother names
her baby "Remember", but the nurse writes it
down as "RooAmber".
That happens, too.
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Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 426
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 06:42 pm: |
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Have you ever noticed how some African
names that look strange on paper...sound
very beautiful when correctly pronounced?
Latina_WI: Yes Kola, I have noticed that too. Nigerian Yoruba girls names tend to do that. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9536
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 12:02 pm: |
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Blacks have enuff REAL issues they need to reconcile without their also allowing, if not facilitating, name discrimination.
I equate this to a lot of those things we Black foks sign-off on that ultimately reduces ALL of our freedom. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9294
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 12:36 pm: |
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Why did you choose a outlandish name for your screen identity, Sabiana? Is that a variation on your real name? I'm sure Marcus Garvey would approve of all of these scrambled names because they are an example of black people using their own resources to improve their lot in life. No? |
Sabiana
Regular Poster
Username: Sabiana
Post Number: 158
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 04:00 pm: |
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No, not really. However, I've noticed the certain stigma attached to these names "ghetto", and the racism that comes with it.
You start to notice that some black people look down on these "ghetto names", already to assume someone of being ignorant, (just would a white person would). But when a "white" name is differently spelled-the stigma is different, and it becomes "cool and different". I love the names black people have created for themselves, but look how even a name could not escape the stereotypes of America.
Again, what's in a name? Alot, for some people.
lol.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9298
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 06:14 pm: |
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How old are you, Sabiana? You and Misty need to realize that you're in the company of well-informed adults when you come to this site. All of these "revelations" you 2 are always calling to our attention are common knowledge to the grown folks who post here. |
Renata
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 2441
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 07:40 pm: |
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NoorPaniPatra...reminds me of the dancehall singer "Patra".
Kola, when you say "your" country, do you mean Somalia or Sudan? I wonder if that's where Patra's mother got the name.... |
Kola_boof
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 4716
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 08:17 pm: |
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I mean Sudan, Renata.
NEVER those fukkers in Somalia.
I can't stand that country--even worse
than Egypt.
But now that the Egyptians have gotten
on my case about never recognizing my
father's country, I have been acknowledging
that I am half Egyptian.
It's amazing how that "means something" to
Black Americans...and means a totally different
thing to me and other Sudanese.
Egypt is a hateful, truly EVIL society
with nothing but DIRT beneath its veils.
SATAN=
Sudan, Egypt, Somalia...
Those are nations of Satan.
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Brownbeauty123
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 2067
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 01:22 pm: |
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Kola, why do you hate Somolia so much? |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 867
Registered: 07-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 02:32 am: |
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Black folks and their names...it's almost like their hair texture issues. |
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