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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1813
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 06:00 pm: | 
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LOS ANGELES - Will Smith has one big introduction to make at Tuesday night's BET Awards: Gangster rappers, meet the rest of the world. Smith told The Associated Press he hopes to impress the global significance of U.S. black culture on the show's audience and artists.
"The kids that are making these trends, making these songs, don't understand the level of effect that black Americans have around the world," he said in an interview. " ... Black Americans are so elevated, it's almost worship."
Smith, co-host of the show (8 p.m. EDT) at Hollywood's Kodak Theater with wife Jada Pinkett-Smith, said he witnessed the phenomenon recently while in Africa. Touring a village in Mozambique, he came across a shack on which someone had scrawled the name of slain rapper Tupac Shakur.
"I was asking the kids: What is it about Tupac? Why is that there? I kept asking why. They were saying we want to dress like you dress, wear all the things you wear, talk how you talk."
"The impression is that black Americans are the dragon slayers. Here we are 13 percent minority in a foreign land, and yet we can make laws, change laws. If Jesse Jackson shows up at Coca-Cola, something changes."
Smith, who won the first rap Grammy in 1988 for his squeaky-clean "Parents Just Don't Understand," said he wants hip-hop artists to recognize their importance and shift away from thuggish themes.
"It's real important to have balance of the imagery. Yes, there are people who fire guns in the street, but there's also doctors who go to work in those areas to feed their children."
The gangster lifestyle is celebrated in black communities for its strength, Smith said. "That's the image of survivors. The dude that sells the drugs or has the guns or is most willing to kill somebody is the dude that has the greatest potential for survival, or at least that's the perception. So that's what people strive for.
"What I'm trying to present and what a lot of other artists are presenting is a different approach to survival and a more sound approach to survival. It's a more long-term approach based on intellect and skills that can't be taken away from you: The smartest dude survives the best."
Smith picks out Common and Mos Def as other artists "that really have something to say that don't necessarily fit on the `106th & Park' top 10."
Now more well-known as a movie star ("Men in Black," "Bad Boys," "Independence Day") than rapper, the 36-year-old Smith maintains on his latest album "Lost And Found" that his nice guy image has worked against him.
"Black radio, they won't play me though," he raps in one song. "Guess they think that Will ain't hard enough. Maybe I should just have a shootout ... just ignorant, attacking, acting rough. I mean then, will I be black enough?"
Though his current single "Switch" is a top 40 hit, the man once known as the Fresh Prince said he no longer worries about album sales.
"I'm an entertainer. I make it and close my eyes," he said. "Sometimes it sells 14 million, sometimes it sells 300,000. For me it's about just doing what I do, and hoping that my artistry makes a difference."
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roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 12:36 pm: |
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I am SO glad there are still artists like WS, 2-pac and commmon who use the genre to make a difference, unlike a certain "half dollar" rapper(ugh!)
All that aside, why is it when people talk about the influence of black culture on the rest of the world, it's always hip-hop that's the focus? what about jazz, Rock & roll,r&b,blues, and religious, scientific and technological contributions? Are these considered EUROPEAN contributions in the global perspective? Why is it that the world only wants to accept the worst of our images? (but that's more of a obvious statement than a question, huh?) |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1824
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 12:50 pm: |
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None of those contributions have or had the IMPACT, Roxie, that Hip Hop does today.
Hip Hop is the biggest, most universally accepted REPRESENTATION of "Black" that the world has ever seen.
And Hip Hop and Michael Jackson's image and the black man's public Affirmation of the White man's mother over his own mother----is killing our people world wide. Will Smith is telling the absolute truth about the POWER of images and Black people's continuiing inability to admit these powers.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1825
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 01:06 pm: |
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The gangster lifestyle is celebrated in black communities for its strength, Smith said. "That's the image of survivors. The dude that sells the drugs or has the guns or is most willing to kill somebody is the dude that has the greatest potential for survival, or at least that's the perception. So that's what people strive for.
Which is what Africans used to say when selling their own people into SLAVERY--survival, strength. Nothing has changed.
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roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 01:09 pm: |
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nowadays the most popular hip-hop is the warped version that's been created by "levittown" corporate types in suits who were condemning the genre 10 years ago. The real hip-hop (the kind closest to it's 70's roots)is often burried to the back where one has to look really hard to find it. ( for a comparison: KRS1 as opposed to....Vanilla Ice!) |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 01:23 pm: |
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Hip-hop is similar to Reggae in:
*singing about social issues
*singing about the situations that occur in their comunities as a way to commuticate to the outside world
*singing medleys of protest against an undesirable situation
*singing about they're political views or their commentary perspectives on political figures.
Of course this describes the songs of a percentage of rappers, the rest mentioning nothing but drugs, jewelry, loose women, and violence, but in rap's yaers were mostly socialy productive and were off to a good start until everyone wanted to embrace gangtsa rap. Now those fur-wearing, bling-sporting hummer-riders are trying to pass them selves off as same gangstas that wouldn't be caught dead in such getup. Popular Rap today is ALL glorification, completely devoid of artistic signiface of it's prdecssors.SAD!:-
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roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 01:25 pm: |
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Sorry , I meant to say:
" IMO, hip-hop is similar to reggae in:" |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1826
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 01:31 pm: |
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All BLACK music is similar to each other---the artists are mostly black. Of course it's going to be very similar.
But whoever "OWNS", "Finances" Hip Hop, etc.---Blacks still willingly take part in it and willingly provide these negative, destructive images.
I've never heard REGGAE artists refer to black women as "bitches and hos"-----which is the #1, most universal statement that Hip Hop has made--and made for 25 years----the iconic image of the "Bitch and Ho". You now see young girls referring to themselves this way.
And what continuously comes out of ones mouth...is what will come to pass.
And even when my favorites like KRS ONE and Public Enemy and MC LYTE were doing their thing-----there was still a lot of negativity present, mostly in the Degredation of women.
The Hip Hop Movement replaced the Civil Rights Movement and has virtually destroyed the black community.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3718
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 01:47 pm: |
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I like Will Smith okay, though I think he's overrated as both a rapper and actor. And I think the points he make have merit.
But Will grew up in a comfortable, traditional, Black middle-class family. I think his father is(was) an engineer.
Heck. Dude got a scholarship to attend the LOFTY Massachusetts Institute of Technology before he opted to pursue an entertainment career.
So while I admire him and what he's accomplished, I think it's EASIER from him to do what he's done via his familial vantage point than it would have been for some of the people he criticizes from theirs.
PS: Isn't it interesting the press has completely ignored his admitting to his and Jada having an open marriage? Some brothahs can't do NO wrong. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1258
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 01:50 pm: |
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Kola:
I never heard the Sugar Hill Gang, Arrested Development or Public Enemy call women bitches and hos and they are hip hop. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3719
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 02:02 pm: |
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Chris,
I agree.
Hip-hop mysogyny was largely ushered in via LA's ganstah rappers Ice T, Easy E, Ice Cube, Dr. Dre., Snoop Dogg and their ilk in the late 80's - early 90's.
Some of their East-coast predecessors were often critical of certain types of women and they effected some the ever-popular playa credo.
But no one could credibly argue that what Run DMC, Doug E Fresh, Slick Rick, Eric B. & Rakim, Heavy D., etc. was mysogynistic. They never did anything that was even REMOTELY as degrading as what's occurred over much of the last 10 - 15 years. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1828
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 02:15 pm: |
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What year was it that Dorothy Height tried to raise the issue of bitches/hos in the media and was castigated by black men for not allowing them their right to artistic expression? It was at least 20 years ago, ABM. More than that, I believe, because I was YOUNG as hell.
Shit--"Superfly", "The Mack" and all those "WHORESON" novels were the starting point for hip hop culture---not just MISOGYNY but Colorist Misogyny.
And I maintain that Hip Hop is a CULTURE, far beyond just music. I was THERE, I was a kid and I remember black males trying to typify PIMPS and EXPLOITERS----because it was "cool" to be such. Of course, they never remember things the way girls do.
And then you have the DUMB girls like Lil Kim.
_________
This images are now flooding Africa, as Will Smith said. And they are lethal...to the race.
It's like the Slave Trade all over again, only this time---it's MENTAL, and this time, we are literally being removed from black bodies and being housed in white ones.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1259
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 02:23 pm: |
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Kola:
By that argument Will Smith is one of that gang since he is hip hop and he is a rapper. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3721
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 02:28 pm: |
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Kola,
There was SCANT reflection of "Superfly", "The Mack", etc. amongst what Run DMC, LL Kool J., Heavy D, P.E., KRS-1, etc. did.
Those dudes weren't braggin' about pimpin'/hustlin'. Snoop and them brought that stuff on the scene.
And I'll tell you what movies solidified the dark, ominous and pessimistic tone of hip-hop: Christopher Walken's The King of New York, Wesley Snipe's New Jack City and Laurence Fishburne's Deep Cover.
Because THOSE films were the FIRST to synthesized hip-hop music with gang-thug life, drug-dealing, bling-blinging, et.. It was then from that platform, the Snoops of the world began incorporating other facets (e.g., Superfly) of the Black underworld into hip-hop music/persona. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1829
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 02:29 pm: |
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But so what if he's one of the gang, Chris.
Wouldn't it be good if MORE of the gang would come clean?
Why is it that we revere ScarFace and Bonnie and Clyde and these cold blooded KILLERS.....and refuse to acknowledge that they're no different than the other Power Forces keeping us down?
I have killed people, but it wasn't for a Gucci Bag, a Rollodex and FIRST DIBS on the White man's mother.
How can you assail the U.S. Government for it's evil and then defend the Hip Hop culture that destroys its own community? It's like having a RIOT and burning down your own neighborhood!!
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1830
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 02:30 pm: |
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ABM---
you and Chris keep ignoring the question.
We're not talking about THOSE PEOPLE you name.
And when did DOROTHY HEIGHT go on her crusade against "bitches and hos" as the new TITLE for the Womb of the Black Race?
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1831
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 02:35 pm: |
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We're talking about a whole culture that was going on AROUND those people.
And the misogyny of the Black Panthers and of the Black film world of the 1970's HAD TO BE a seed for what came later. Reading about Huey Newton and about Melvin Van Peebles and seeing their WORK and their speeches is just like seeing HIP HOP in motion.
And don't forget---I am a huge fan of KRS ONE and Public Enemy.
You're right. It was these Self-hating bastards on the WEST COAST who brought all the bullshit.
Oh----and BIGGIE SMALLS black 'n ugly as ever
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1832
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 02:36 pm: |
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Have you seen that blonde black bitch from South Africa that kicked off MTV Africa?
I pray I don't see her. I could just kick her ass.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3722
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 02:38 pm: |
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Kola,
I'm not defending hip-hop per se. I'm trying to provide an ACCURATE description of how it has become what it's become.
Hip-hop was not created to glorify Black lawlessness and obscenity (much of which PRECEEDED the advent of hip-hop).
It was created as a means of poor NYC Black, Puerto Rican and West Indies kids to entertain themselves while suffering under a larger society that had pretty much discarded them.
Now I agree much of it now manifests in ways we'd agree are regrettable. But the genre is not in of itself inherently/patendly evil.
It IS, like any other artful, what some who have the most power/influence, have made it to be. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1833
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 02:46 pm: |
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You're right, ABM.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1260
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 03:32 pm: |
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Kola:
The man who did "Parents Just Don't Understand" and "Summertime"--songs so safe they are on the Disney radio station--is the same as Scarface, Ice T and the Notorious BIG?
The seeds of Will Smith and A Tribe Called Quest were in the Black Panthers and Superfly?
I guess Queen Latifah and the Fugees were too?
I can't back you up on this one. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1837
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 03:37 pm: |
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Chris,
I didn't say ANY of the stuff you just posted.
So NO--you can't back me up.
But the Hip Hop Cultural Movement is definitely related to all that I stated and has replaced the Civil Rights-Black Power Cultural Movement.
It's amazing how you name a few innocent acts--blythely pretending that THESE are the people who represent the majority of what's out there.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1261
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 03:55 pm: |
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Kola:
You made a general statement that condemned all hip hoppers, including the one that you cited when this started.
You have condemned Kevin Powell, who indentifies himself as a hip hopper, Jesse Jackson Jr. Ras Baraka, Lauryn Hill, Chuck D, and person after person based on a few.
And let me get on negroes like Dorothy Height and C. Delores Tucker (a prominent anti gangsta rap crusader who I believe has appeared as a character witness for Suge Knight and whose political career was sabotaged by corruption charges_--you don't hear a damn thing from those negroes when you have a Latasha Harlins case, or that Bankruptcy bill passes, or the Black farmers get ripped off for their land, or gas prices go up, but when it comes to some music or songs they don't even listen to they are running around screaming.
They are out of it. They are powerless and they show it. This is why the kids don't respect them. They ain't like Martin Luther King and Fanny Lou Hamer and Malcolm X--did they get down on the jazz guys that were drugging and messing up or the blues guys who were saying the same thing that these rappers did--
You say you were here, you think black people just started being gangsters in the 70's? You think black people were all angels until we heard gangster rap music and saw Superfly? Where you think these kids got it from? We have had black gangsters since we have had blacks in cities. Before the crips were the slausons,the avenues and the businessmen. What about the story of Bad Man Stackolee?
What about Leadbelly? He killed at least one black man and was in the pen half his life.
Dorothy Height and them are still trying to ban Jelly Roll Morton and Louis Armstrong for playing "Negro Jass" music. I'm an old fart and they are too tired and out of it for me. They are irrelevant. Picking after fleas and elephants are stomping them to death. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3725
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 04:05 pm: |
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Chris,
"RUMBLE, [old] man! RUMBLE!!" |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 537
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 04:26 pm: |
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...Picking after fleas and elephants are stomping them to death.
Preach, bruh!!! |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 538
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 04:29 pm: |
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the press has completely ignored his admitting to his and Jada having an open marriage
I've heard about this, but didn't see the original comments. Do you know more details? |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1840
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 04:53 pm: |
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OK Chris, I get your point and you know I respect your opinion.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1842
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 05:10 pm: |
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But going back to my original point. Will Smith is right about Black Americans needing to be more conscious of the fact they are the STANDARD SETTERS for the Black World----because they're the only black people on earth who have constant access to the MEDIA.
And there is great responsibility with that, because if they Self-destruct and Kill each other....then we ALL go down.
I've been saying that since I first came to this board. And I was happy to see a Black American Icon, AT LAST, saying the same thing.
And, of course, I give a NOD to Lauryn Hill who said it when she won 5 Grammys. Black Americans have got to become more conscious of the examples they set for the rest of the Black World.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3729
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 05:50 pm: |
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‘Vette,
Per your request.
http://marriage.about.com/od/entertainmen1/p/willsmith.htm
Will and Jada on Love and Marriage:
Jada: "I will throw my career away before I let it break up our marriage. I made it clear to Will. I'd throw it away completely."
Source: USA Weekend
Will: "Families are like a business. The key is one person having a vision of what it needs to be and being able to pull everyone together. That's Jada for sure."
Source: USA Weekend
Will on Open Marriage: Although Will Smith has said he would never cheat on his wife without first asking permission, he has been quoted as saying, "In our marriage vows, we didn't say 'forsaking all others.' The vow that we made was that you will never hear that I did something after the fact...If it came down to it, then one spouse can say to the other, 'Look, I need to have sex with somebody. I'm not going to if you don't approve of it - but please approve of it.'"
Kola,
Did Will make these proclamations for social responsibility before or after he recently cut that track and video with Snoop (“It ain’t no fun if the homies can’t have none.”) Dogg? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1262
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 05:58 pm: |
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Kola Boof, I'll bet YOU are a hip hopper yourself, and distressed by the negative aura that has surrounded it, you are distancing yourself from it.
Embrace it and use it for your own!
After all, I am a BabyBoomer/Civil Rights Generation man. I can't effect any positive change in it.
It is up to the hiphoppers themselves. We can help, but we sure can't do it by just zeroing in on their failures (after all we live in glass houses and if they have a lousy world we gave it to them) |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3732
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 06:05 pm: |
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Chris,
One of my favorite lyrics from one of my favorite Tupac's raps "Keep Your Head Up":
"I was given this world I didn't make it." |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1847
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 06:07 pm: |
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Chris, OF COURSE I'm a hip hopper.
Remember those kids around your block who went crazy over my poetry collection, "Nile River Woman" after I was on the radio????
They said, "Any bitch this GHETTO got ta be down! 'N from Africa too!"
It's funny---in my autobiography, I was so into the hip hop culture as a teen.
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roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 06:10 pm: |
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--The Hip Hop Movement replaced the Civil Rights Movement and has virtually destroyed the black community.--
youre right about that kola. I just wish the "good" hip-hop artists were more vocal and active about the impact of "bad rap" and "bad rap"'s influence.
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Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 06:32 pm: |
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roXie, you have good insight for a young girl. Me, I never bought the gangsta rap rationale that it is not creating a lifestyle, it is reflecting one. Just another specious example of giving a good reason for the real reason, the real reason being that gangsta rap has a shock value and, as such, it sells millions records. The blues mirrored black life and jazz celebrated it, but neither one of these genres ever glorified violence. |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 08:34 pm: |
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thank you, cynnique! |
Anunaki3600
Veteran Poster
Username: Anunaki3600
Post Number: 55
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 04:41 am: |
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One point being missed is that Hip-Hop is selling American style Capitalism to the rest of the world. Fancy cars, shinny things (bling-bling), etc. Things lots of money can buy including byches. No wonder gangsta hip-hop is backed by the powerfull in the industry and system. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 541
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 07:08 am: |
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As much as I do not care for Rev Sharpton, he had a good quote when he spoke here recently. It was something to the effect that these folks aren't even really gangsters--Real gangsters had the pull to pay off judges and cops...had family who were lawyers...Sent their own kids to Ivies...
So these folks running around talking 'bout "Ima gangsta" ain't even that. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 542
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 07:11 am: |
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Thanks for the details of Will and Jada, ABM. Hey, I'm not mad at him/her/them...you gotta do what you gotta do, I guess. My hunch is that most of the time when couples "agree" to something like an open marriage, or a one time thing, or other out of the ordinary stuff it's usually one person proposing and the other person just going along with it...
If both are cool with their arrangement, and if they find other folks to participate who are also cool, then more power to 'em I guess. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1263
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 10:19 am: |
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Yvettep:
Like many other avocations, a gangster is anybody who says he or she is one--and who pays the dues and puts in the work.
There are a few gangsters like Rev Al describes--and he ought to know--but the overwhelming majority of them are broke and in jail half the time. That is the part of the gangster lifestyle they don't go into--but nobody talks about the high instance of substance abuse among lawyers and doctors and the like.
What Rev. Al needs to find out is why he's still wearing that bs James Brown style conk--all Da Man has to do to break him down is deny him his chemicals and straightening comb and he'll see all us black folks down the river. |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 10:24 am: |
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Kola: --And there is great responsibility with that, because if they Self-destruct and Kill each other....then we ALL go down.--
It's obvious by now that every black person, african or diasporan is made an involuntary goodwill ambassador of their people
as soon as their born. Our lives will always be like a politician's: we gotta watch what we say and what we do or everyonepays the price. I HATE IT that white people (even one of my friends)does not have or understand that burden! This is why everyone hates white liberals!(sorry, venting again) |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1264
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 10:24 am: |
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All:
I suppose the thing is what does anybody have to offer these people? I ain't got no job for them. I am scuffling myself. Al ain't got no money for them?
How are they supposed to get money? All we have is some advice--with a dime they can't get a cup of coffee.
What? You sit up and tell them if they have a janitor's job or a waitressing job or a nurse's aides job that that is great--then when you see them in the street you talk about how shabby they look. Why don't they have more.
Under this system in order for there to be winners, there must be losers. Forget everybody being middle class and above. Ain't never going to happen.
Face it. The only way that they are going to even have a taste of something is to do wrong--and talk about bling bling? What do you call the Mercedes and rolex watches and all of the Middle class? You never see Rev Jesse or Rev Al or Cosby and them guys in overalls. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 543
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 11:13 am: |
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Did anyone take a look at the interactive web site the NYT did in conjunction w/their recent series on social class is America? If I can find the link, I'll post it here.
The interesting thing to me about it--which I "knew" but the site did a good job of illustrating--was how the idea of upward mobility is largely a myth.
This, to me, speaks to what you are saying, Chris. I don't think most people believe for a minute that in a capitalist society everyone can be "middle class and above"--But most do have these notions of low class not perpetuating for generations--or, at least, not having to perpetuate. But the data does not appear to bear this out.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 544
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 11:15 am: |
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I'm fixin' to git my gradstudent pass revoked: The above should have said "...the data do not appear to bear this out." |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 545
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 11:20 am: |
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Here you go: http://www.nytimes.com/pages/national/class/
As a side note, I posted in my blog a while back a link to a critique of this series--something to the effect that it was ironic that the Times ran this series, seeing how their current readership base is so upper class and they cater so much to that... If I find that I'll post that link, too. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3735
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 02:24 pm: |
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'Vette,
I share your views about Will/Jada. Hey. If they mind it's not much of a matter to me.
It's just always interesting to put some of what the rich/famous do within the context of OTHER things(and people) they do.
Regardling class:
I believe the BIGGEST problem is most of us are being deceived into believing they have more than they really have...until it's too late (e.g., downsized, calamitous health issues, natural event, etc.). We all sort of comfortably ACCEPT the class/economic status quo because we think we're okay. So we never as a whole seek to SEE and ADDRESS the problems the NYT series identified. But if wealth truly does equal power, but all economic indications America is becoming a defacto monarchy.
Chris,
You're dead-on with your comments about gangstahs.
I grew up with A LOT of them. And most of them are either deceased, incarcerated or virtual zombies. So there's no one more pathetic/stupid to me than someone who fancies himself a thug.
Now. Regarding what we can do: You do what you can.
I have some small but thriving interests that employ a few foks, most of whom are Black/Hispanic women from disadvantaged situations.
I might hire some foks who are a little ruff around the edges to help with some home/business maintenance/janitorial duties. I might pay them to run some errands.
It's nothing that big. Some might claim it to be demeaning (Though there's NOT demeaning about honest days work!). But you do what you can do.
I agree it tuff for many of our young. But there are MANY opportunities that don't require one to be a baller or an ill lyricist. But you gottah be capable/willing to learn, work hard and step outside your comfort zone.
It's NOT hip-hop or bust!
HAHAHA! Man! You dayam near made me upchuck with the Sharpton conk crack.
How is it Black foks - especially those in the bigs like Jesse Jackson, Farrakhan and them - let him continue to get away with gettin' his buttah whipped? |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1852
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 02:34 pm: |
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ABM---
Why aren't you watching my video!!?
LOL!!!!
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3736
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 02:41 pm: |
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Kola,
I am, Babe. I am right now!
WOW!!
It's ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL!
You're better, more articulate, charming...more BEAUTIFUL than I imagined you to be!
PS: And, I gottah admit: The 'girls' look REAL!!! Hehehe! |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1853
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 02:54 pm: |
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The girls ARE real. Whut 'choo talking bout!!
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3739
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 04:05 pm: |
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After seeing them in action, I believe you.
Hehehe! |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 160
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 09:16 pm: |
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We played musical chairs last week with the kids and I made the MISTAKE of telling one of my youth workers to get a CD from his car. Thats all Im a say...I need a Suga Hill Gang CD for the NEXT time
LiLi |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 550
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 03:40 pm: |
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Related to this: http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0526,kitwana,65332,22.html
It appears all our moaning about lack of "political" and "conscious" rappers may be only half the story--Even when they are present *we* do not seem to be supporting them:
Armed with messages of Black political resistance, Black pride, and opposition to militarization and corporatization, designed in part to counter the commercial hip-hop party-and-bullshit madness dumbing down the nation's youth, hip-hop's lyrical descendants of the "fight the power" golden era today are booking concerts in record numbers—far beyond anything imaginable by their predecessors. Problem is, they can hardly find a Black face in the audience.
As the Coup (Pick a Bigger Gun), Zion-I (True and Livin'), and the Perceptionists (Black Dialogue) get set for a wave of touring to promote their new CDs this summer, the audience that will be looking back at them unmasks one of the most significant casualties of hip-hop's pop culture ascension: the shrinking Black concert audience for hardcore, political hip-hop.
"My audience has gone from being over 95 percent Black 10 years ago to over 95 percent white today," laments Boots Riley of the Coup, whose 1994 Genocide and Juice responded to Snoop Dogg's 1993 gangsta party anthem "Gin and Juice." "We jokingly refer to our tour as the Cotton Club," he says—a reference to the 1920s and '30s Harlem jazz spot where Black musicians played to whites-only audiences.
..."I love Boots Riley's music, but in general people in the 'hood are not checking for the Coup," says Brother Ali, part owner of the Minneapolis-based hip-hop collective Rhymesayers Entertainment. "It's hard enough to get some of our people to go to a Kweli show. It has a lot to do with the fact that the emphasis on the culture has been taken away. It's just the industry now and it's sold back to us—it's not ours anymore. It used to be anti-establishment, off the radar, counterculture. People in the streets are now being told what hip-hop is and what it looks like by TV"... |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3751
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 04:09 pm: |
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'Vette,
The problem you reference to here is largely the consequence of the consolidation of the record/radio industries.
No one supports those brothers you reference to here because we never see/hear about them. Rather, ad nauseum, we're force-fed Luducris, lil Jon, Fitty Cents to the point where it's virtually impossible to dig any other flow.
When Clinton was in office, the brothah he appointed to the FCC chief position named Kennard (I forget his first name.) attempted to install a low-level radio program over the broadcast airways. Essentially, the program would allow small entities, communities, churches, etc. claim a small, local portion of the radio frequency.
One of the many things that excited me about that program was it had within it the potential to allow others to play music over the airways that had NOT been co-opted by the Disney, Universal, Clear Channel and the like. This might have allowed a "Boots Riley" to get more of an opportunity to counter much of what we complain about.
But, of course, Gore 'lost', Bush replaced Kennard with Michael Powell (Colin's sell-out scion) as FCC chief, Powell toss Kennard's efforts like Bubonic Plague and now so much of the airways are owned by so few, you either got to be a sell-out...or you 'gits the hell-out'. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 551
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 04:14 pm: |
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ABM, OK...but then where are the White kids hearing this??? |
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