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roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 11:51 pm: | 
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Sorry to copy you here Cynnique ;), but I've been wondering what everyone else's feelings were about the Washitaws, Miskitus, and other Black Indians of the Americas. This is a part of african diasporan history I've interested in in the past 3 or 4 years and I'm surprised that most people don't know this part of Nat.Amer./Afro. Amer. history.
This is a page that discusses black indians:
http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/ancientamerica.htm
But like I said, what are your opinions on this subject?
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1574
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 12:00 am: |
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I write about this in my latest novel "Flesh and the Devil", Roxie.
One of the main characters, through flashback, shows how his ancestors in Oklahoma were Black Indians---the Paniwassaha or "Raccoon Indians" who were Seminoles who had mixed with the Bambara African tribe of the 1600's Louisiana Delta and migrated to places like Oklahoma.
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Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 130
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 08:09 am: |
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I am sick that my Uncle now has senile dementia as he would discuss our Indian roots but at the time I wasnt paying attention. I am very interested in this as well.
LiLi |
Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 11:56 am: |
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In our family album there is a picture of my grandmother that was passed down to us from our grandfather. If ever there was a squaw, she was it. High cheek bones, long braids. She was half Black Foot Indian. Her brother once had a confrontation with a member of the Jesse James gang and the story goes that he beat the shit out of him. |
Libralind2
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 133
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 02:02 pm: |
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WOW..now that is a story. Do you have anyone that can give you more..?
LiLi |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 02:58 pm: |
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I know there's the book "They came before Columbus" by Ivan Van Sertima, and another called "The Lost Treasure of King Juba:The Evidence of Africans in America before Columbus." by Frank Joseph, that mentions the washitaws.
The rest of the info I found on Google. |
Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 03:38 pm: |
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roXie, more and more information is coming to light to indicate that Columbus was a late comer to the "new" world. Artifacts and relics are being unearthed to suggest that visitors from other places preceded ol Chris. Apparently a few hearty souls were able to navigate the oceans and make it to America before 1492. |
Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 03:57 pm: |
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LiLi: My deceased father told me a lot about his boyhood in Kansas and spoke often of the ghosts of Indians haunting the woods around where he lived, braves on horsebacks who were visible, riding through the trees on moonlit nights. He also spoke of his great grandmother who was born a slave and who was - trumpet flourishes - pitch black! My mother's people were from Tennessee and she says her grandfather spoke of his plantation days when he and his siblings were recruited to be the playmates of their master's only "legitimate" child, and when her great grandfather was older and freed, how he and all of the other black men in the little town where they lived, scared away a bunch klansmen by firing rifes at them, letting the raiders know that they had picked the wrong place to try and terrorize. |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 09:58 am: |
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I didn't JUST find this stuff out, I just brought it up since discussing this in my school would be like talking to a room of mannequins. I craved a response. 
Anyway since everyone else shared their history I might as well...
Both of my mother's grandmothers were NA. Her paternal grandmother was a Cherokee (makes sense considering that part of the family's mostly from North Carolina) and her Maternal Grandmother.....well..... let me explain.
According to the family history, my great grand mother was being transported to Florida with her mother & people by Union soldiers during the end of the civil war. In modern day Oxford, NC, my GGM's mother fell ill and both had to stop and settle in oxford. There, my GGM later met my GGF and since then both she and her mother stayed.
So as of now, my GGM's tribe and origin is still undetermined and I am still researching along with my black ancestors prior to 1865. We still have family in Oxford whom we visit often, though.
As for my Father's side, his paternal grandmother was "white and indian", that's all I've been told so far. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3508
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 11:33 am: |
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I just KNOW this thread is driving Kola MAD!
HAHAHA! |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 11:55 am: |
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um, how would it drive her mad Abm? |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1592
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 12:32 pm: |
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Roxie, I am not mad.
But here is a comment by me---taken from another thread----that illustrates what ABM was referring to:
ABM---
I'm sorry, but not even your post does justice to the "reality" that exists out there for millions of black girls who are of a "certain type"----most notably very dark and AFRICAN looking.
It is FAR EASIER in Western societies for women to engage in homosexuality and be "inducted" to ROLE PLAY out of desperation----simply because girls are encouraged to have greater "emotional range"--to cry in public, kiss and hold hands with other girls and to seek HEALING, not from men, but from other females.
Alicia Banks, who is a definite lesbian, often complains of "too many" straight black women messing up the lesbian dating scene by trying to PRETEND they are lesbians---so they can have a romantic life.
Of course, these straight women are "wishy-washy" and difficult to sustain relationships with, because they are not really gay.
There is an EPIDEMIC of it in the BLACK AMERICAN COMMUNITY.
70% of Black Children grow up with no fathers---Black boys in every strata of society where they have a public voice have made it clear that they don't value "black girls" by constantly choosing women who are NOT BLACK and by accepting mainly the "lightest" of the black when they do choose a black girl.
Not only do they choose this way---but in their Music, their Films, their PRINT media (ie. KING) and all other avenues----the BLACK AMERICAN MAN consistently sends a message to young black girls that in order to be beautiful and desirable....they must look "Non-black".
This has been a historical pattern of Black American men---since slavery ended.
It is WELL DOCUMENTED and there are MILLIONS of photographs to prove it---going all the way back.
Which is why the Black Americans are so MIXED---far more than because of White men raping Black women during slavery----the effects of which could have been reversed AFTER slavery ended by Blacks Choosing and mating with Darker Women.
Of course, every literary book POINTS OUT...that blacks chose to marry LIGHTER in the hopes of attaining "good hair" and "white looks"----or "Indian looks". The High Yellow PERSON was made into the ultimate status symbol and put on a pedestal.
Because I am an African woman, my sensitivity to this issue is HEIGHTENED in ways that selfish, evil White Supremacist BLACK MEN are not---they cloak themselves in DENIAL, because they can't face the truth---which is---that they are the exact SATAN they accuse the white man of being.
Kalydosus feels no responsibility towards Black women, but I DO, and no amount of "bullshit" from his mouth is going to stop me from envoking my CURSE against all who embrace forms of racism to kill MY BLACK BABIES---even when those people are fellow black women.
The Black American Man---"Killed his own mother"---because she wasn't white.
That's something that intellectual AFRICAN women are well aware of...and now we must battle the Non-intellectual African woman who is internalizing this same self-hatred via Nigger Media, so that we can fight once again for the liberation and EXISTENCE of BLACK PEOPLES in Africa.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3517
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 02:08 pm: |
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roXie,
Well now. I gottah admit: That went down a bit easier than I'd anticipated. |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 03:10 pm: |
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Kola,
I gotta agree, there are many self-hating blacks out there emphasize indian blood because they don't want to be black anymore.
I prefer to view black-indian ancestry through a cultural lens rather than physiological one. The two cultures are very similar in their religious and social perspectives and had a better relationship that clearly threatened the white dominance, but sadly, as you mentioned,the one-drop rule, blood quantum rule,and the resulting color obsession has shattered the two communities' legitimate bond.
IMO, "Indianess" like "Blackness" is a cultural, political and social experience. Since I have grown up knowng only the Black experience, I don't consider myself indian. However, there are Blacks who DID grow up knowing the Indian experience AND the black experience involutarily because of their outer appearance, so they are in a category in their own. Culturally they can't relate to other AA's but still experience the same discrimination, even among other NAs. And the fact that they call themselves "BLACK Indians" instead of just "Indian" suggests that they are not trying to deny their african side any more than I am.
I think it's okay to be proud of one's non-black side if they find equal pride their black side.
And Kola, I didn't expect anything negative from you. |
Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 03:35 pm: |
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As an amusing sidelight, I just read where the NCAA in its efforts to be politically correct had been urging all of the college athletic teams with Indian nicknames to drop them and adopt other ones because this practice of naming sports teams after Native American tribes was demeaning. Well,a bunch of different Indian tribes responded by saying in effect, to let them be the ones to decide about this, and that most of them were fine with having teams named after them. The Seminoles said there was no way they wanted the University of Florida to change the name of their teams from the Seminoles to something else.
As for blacks embracing their Indian ancestry, it's because Native Americans had a certain glamour attached to them. They were romanticized as the Noble Savages, who like blacks were uprooted and mistreated by the white man. When it came to claiming them as ancestors Blacks didn't have to guess, and speculate, they could see their red ancestors right there before their eyes.
A lot of white people also brag about their Indian blood. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1602
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 03:38 pm: |
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ROXIE, my children's father brags that he is a full blooded Garifuna from BELIZE.
But I recently MET his father (whom I'd talked to on the phone before, but never seen)...and his father is a Half-Indian Black from Hondurus. The man looks like one of those dark black STRAIGHT-haired people from Pakistan.
Now I know why Thomas "nappy hair" is so strange, although---HE IS very black and negroid beautiful.
(I prefer the West African man to the East/North African man, because I was adopted by a Black American man)
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3524
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 03:47 pm: |
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AN INDIAN TALE
I have cousin who married an Native American woman.
He's a pretty honest, hardworking dude.
She was out for the bigger-better-deal.
Which she found in some wealthy White dude.
One day my cousin came home early from work.
You know what he saw.
So, being the good Reservist Army Sargeant he was.
He grab a gun.
And shot the White guy...
And his Indian wife...
Dead.
THE END. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1608
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 03:56 pm: |
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He should have found him a nice, sweet little chocolate church girl with glossy hot-combed hair and a smile warm as apple pie.
They exist by the MILLIONS and yet everyone claims that "ALL" Black women are golddigging, attitude infested Non-women.
I meet "GOOD", friendly, intelligent, attractive black women on a daily basis and they don't have men----and many of them report that nobody's checking for them either.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3526
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 04:24 pm: |
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Kola,
I tend to agree.
Hey. I'm not against IRR in general.
But he was a simple MS boy. Good, honest but a pretty nonosense guy.
She, however, was scheming from the beginning.
He 'rescued' her the plantation. And from there her plan was full-n-effect.
He seemed to know he had a problem. Probably because EVERYBODY-and-their-babiesmomma was telling him.
But he was looking to get into something 'exotic' (straight hair flowing down past her butt, high cheek bone, etc.). You know.
Nose open like Wal-Mart on Christmas Eve.
So BOY did he get MORE than what he was asking for.
He's rotting in penitentiary in a state that, at least at the time of his conviction, disallowed capital punishment.
Now. Here's, perhaps, the worst part (other than the killing, of course):
They had kids.
Babies at the time of the murder.
This happen 15 years ago.
The woman's parents took the children.
And none of us Black relatives, not even the children's grand parents, aunts/uncles, etc. have heard hide-nor-hair of them since. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1612
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 04:40 pm: |
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God, ABM. I'm so sorry.
My heart goes out to your Cousin.
If you ever want me to write him in Prison, just send me the information.
I would never say anything to upset him. |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 04:49 pm: |
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GOODNESS, if there's two groups of people that are in serious need of communication, it's BLACK men and BLACK women. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3529
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 04:51 pm: |
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Kola,
Maybe I will let you send him something.
We were pretty close when we was kids. People almost viewed me to be his older brother.
I miss him. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1615
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 04:59 pm: |
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ABM, you know how to reach me.
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roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 05:03 pm: |
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Abm,
--And none of us Black relatives, not even the children's grand parents, aunts/uncles, etc. have heard hide-nor-hair of them since.--
Talk about adding insult to injury. Not only do your cousins half-black children have no contact w/ their black relatives, but there is a great possibility the children are recieving maltreatment from the indian relatives on part of being half-black. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3531
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 05:34 pm: |
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roXie,
Whenever they're enough of us together, discussion of that very painful possibility rears its head.
But I guess we (hopefully) conclude that if they didn't really want to take care of the children, they would have given them to my cousin's mother/siblings.
That's what we hope.
Hey. A few years from now, they'll be grown. Then THEY can decide whether they want to seek out their father's people.
I hope they do. Because there are A LOT of really GOOD kin who're longing to embrace them. |
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