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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 428
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 01:56 pm: | 
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Stanford University announced Thursday that it would sell its holdings in four companies — PetroChina, ABB Ltd., Sinopec and Tatneft — that conduct business in Sudan that has the effect of supporting the government there...
...Student groups are also mobilizing over the issue. Students Taking Action Now: Darfur, known as STAND, was founded in September and currently has 80 campus chapters. The group is planning a major push on divestment in the next academic year.
(more: http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2005/06/10/sudan)
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1411
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 02:32 pm: |
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OHMYGOD!!!!!!
This is wonderful!
Thank you for the news Yvette!!!!
God bless STANFORD.
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roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 06:07 pm: |
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This may not be as important as Yvette's news, but on that reality show "hit me baby" ,the winning band Arrested Development announced that they're representative charity was for Sudan.
(just a detail I thought everyone should know.)  |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 430
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 07:52 pm: |
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roXie, I did LIKE you, but now you have to go and depress me and make me feel OLD by telling me the news that Arrested Development was on this has-beens show... (-;
**sigh**
Anyway, that is interesting news. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 431
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 09:08 am: |
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More:
I do not know quite how to take this--
It's a 2004 album by Danger Mouse. (You may remember hearing about his much bootlegged "Grey Album" mixing JayZ/Beatles.) See more here: http://www.betterpropaganda.com/album_page.asp?id=1014
My question: Is this kind of thing truly concern, sincere expression, progressivism, etc?
Or, is it a kind of fetishism of the situation?
I am asking mainly about the album artwork and/or title--can't really address the music since I have only heard one song from the album.
What do you all think? |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 432
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 09:17 am: |
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I'm mainly educating myself with all this. Sorry if this is too elementary for many of you. (Especially Kola, I know, this is super basic.)
It's just my nature--What I do when something piques my curiousity, empathy, etc: I research it.
Anyway.
Good (I think) map of the region:
This is from a site maintained by the International Crisis Group: http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=1230&l=1 |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 433
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 09:21 am: |
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And I'll copy the whole of this here:
108th CONGRESS 2d Session; S. CON. RES. 124
Declaring genocide in Darfur, Sudan.
IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES July 13, 2004
Mr. BROWNBACK (for himself, Mr. CORZINE, Mrs. DOLE, Mr. LIEBERMAN, Mr. DEWINE, and Mr. FEINGOLD) submitted the following concurrent resolution; which was referred to the Committee on Foreign Relations
CONCURRENT RESOLUTION
Declaring genocide in Darfur, Sudan.
Whereas Article 1 of the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide states that `the contracting parties confirm that genocide, whether committed in time of peace or in time of war, is a crime under international law which they undertake to prevent and to punish';
Whereas Article 2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide declares that `in the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: (a) killing members of the group; (b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; and (e) forcibly transferring children of the group to another group';
Whereas Article 3 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide affirms that the `following acts shall be punishable: (a) genocide; (b) conspiracy to commit genocide; (c) direct and public incitement to commit genocide; (d) attempt to committed genocide; and (e) complicity in genocide';
Whereas in Darfur, Sudan, an estimated 30,000 innocent civilians have been brutally murdered, more than 130,000 people have been forced from their homes and have fled to neighboring Chad, and more than 1,000,000 people have been internally displaced;
Whereas Andrew Natsios, the Administrator of the United States Agency for International Development, has predicted that 300,000 civilians in Darfur will die within the year under `optimal conditions' in which humanitarian assistance is provided, and that as many as 1,000,000 civilians in Darfur are at risk; and
Whereas in March 2004 the United Nations Resident Humanitarian Coordinator stated: `[T]he war in Darfur started off in a small way last year but it has progressively gotten worse. A predominant feature of this is that the brunt is being borne by civilians. This includes vulnerable women and children . . . The violence in Darfur appears to be particularly directed at a specific group based on their ethnic identity and appears to be systemized.': Now, therefore, be it
Resolved by the Senate (the House of Representatives concurring), That Congress--
(1) declares that the atrocities unfolding in Darfur, Sudan, are genocide;
(2) reminds the President and the international community of their international legal obligations, as affirmed in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide;
(3) urges the President to call the atrocities being committed in Darfur, Sudan by their rightful name: `genocide';
(4) commends the leadership of the President in seeking a peaceful resolution to the conflict in Darfur, Sudan and in addressing the humanitarian crisis caused by that conflict, including the provision of assistance to meet immediate humanitarian needs in Darfur, Sudan and Eastern Chad;
(5) urges the President to seek a United Nations Security Council resolution under Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter that directs the Member States of the United Nations to impose targeted sanctions against those responsible for the atrocities committed in Darfur, Sudan, authorizes a multinational force to guarantee humanitarian access and security for foreign aid workers and internally displaced persons, urges a halt to violence committed by armed militias and by the armed forces of Sudan and the safe, secure, and the sustainable return of internally displaced persons and refugees to their homes, creates a Commission of Inquiry to investigate the unfolding genocide, recommends measures to create accountability in Darfur, Sudan, and calls for the establishment of a formal peace process for permanent resolution of grievances between Darfurians and the Government of Sudan;
(6) calls on the Administrator of the United States Agency for International Development to establish a Darfur Resettlement, Rehabilitation, and Reconstruction Fund to fund assistance for those driven off their land so that they may return and begin to rebuild their communities; and
(7) urges the President to provide political and financial support to the African Union to promote its effective intervention in Darfur, Sudan to achieve security, humanitarian assistance, and accountability.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 434
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 09:23 am: |
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(Reference for above: http://www.darfurgenocide.org/News/senatebill.htm) |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 09:24 am: |
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I *know* the show is pathetic (IMO such shows are beneath the genuine talents of AD and Cece penniston and they're obviously desparate). But that was suprisingly good news to come from a unusual source. Go ahead and judge my personality by this one post, but this news depressing you(for obvious personal reasons)is clearly no concern of mine.
BTW, I listened to AD in their heyday too, so the "Stop making me feel old" act is just tired. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 435
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 09:35 am: |
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roXie, you did not see my wink? (-; My statement was a joke. I like you just fine, despite what I said. I make no judgements on your personality.
And I only wish my feeling old were an act!
(CeCe wsa on that show, too! I LOVE CeCe! "Fi-na-leeeee it has HAPpenned to ME right in FRONT of my FACE and I JUST cannot HIDE it..."
...or something like that...) |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3314
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 10:30 am: |
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'Vette,
What's happened at Stanford is wonderful. Perhaps it will be the genesis of potent American/worldwide efforts to thwart genocide, rape and forced displace in the Sudan.
Here are some important questions that perhaps Kola could answer:
1) Has the UN declared what's occurring in the Sudan to be genocide? Because if it is considered genocide, the UN would be compelled to act.
2) If the answer to 1) is "Yes", why has the UN not intervened?
3) And if the answer to 1) is "No", why does what's occurring in Darfur not qualify as genocide?
If we are going to make some meaningful, effective contributions to the resolution of the Darfur tragedy, we must familiarize ourselves with those issues.
Btw: Art is almost always a "fetish" of some sort, in the since the artist holds some fascination with its subject matter. And any fascination, however sincere/benevolent its intent, has within it the seeds of perversion. Given that most American's could hardly identify the Sudan on a map, ANY attention at all to it is on balance positive.
Ladies,
I think you'll concur with me that hip-hop could use MORE Arrested Development and LESS Fitty Cents. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1416
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 11:47 am: |
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YVETTE----bless you so much.
I am such a baby. I cried for an hour this morning just seeing the map of my country. My city---Omdurman, is on the Blue Nile is connected on the southern flank to the capital---Khartoum.
I am so ashamed to be a "Northerner".
_______
ABM, the UN has not declared what is going on in Sudan to be "genocide"---countries like CHINA voted against calling it that---for "business" reasons.
And the fact is, the UN at this moment, didn't want to be totally responsible for the SUDAN...
...and as always, the victims in SUDAN are the blackest people on earth---which makes it even hard to get many Africans and other blacks to completely relate and care about them. These in the West are not Cushites, but their charcoal color proves that they are from the original people of the White Nile (see map). Nobody cares about BLACK PEOPLE. The KILLING has been going on forever.
If only my publisher would get my autobiography out.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1417
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 11:48 am: |
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I love Cece Peniston too.
LOL
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3316
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 12:57 pm: |
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Kola,
I suspected as much but I wasn't sure. (And I now better appreciate your antipathy for China.)
Do you know the UN's official, written stance on Darfur (including China's statements)? If so, please post it. Because the better we understand the 'language' here the better we can rebut it. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 436
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 02:32 pm: |
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loooooong pdf document from the UN: http://www.un.org/News/dh/sudan/com_inq_darfur.pdf
From the executive summary (emphasis added):
Based on a thorough analysis of the information gathered in the course of its investigations, the Commission established that the Government of the Sudan and the Janjaweed are responsible for serious violations of international human rights and humanitarian law amounting to crimes under international law. In particular, the Commission found that Government forces and militias conducted indiscriminate
attacks, including killing of civilians, torture, enforced disappearances, destruction of villages, rape and other forms of sexual violence, pillaging and forced displacement, throughout Darfur. These acts were conducted on a widespread and systematic basis, and therefore may amount to crimes against humanity. The extensive destruction and displacement have resulted in a loss of livelihood and means of survival for countless women, men and children. In addition to the large scale attacks, many people have been
arrested and detained, and many have been held incommunicado for prolonged periods and tortured. The vast majority of the victims of all of these violations have been from the Fur, Zaghawa, Massalit, Jebel, Aranga and other so-called ‘African’ tribes...
...The Commission concluded that the Government of the Sudan has not pursued a policy of genocide. Arguably, two elements of genocide might be deduced from the gross violations of human rights perpetrated by Government forces and the militias under their control. These two elements are, first, the
actus reus consisting of killing, or causing serious bodily or mental harm, or deliberately inflicting conditions of life likely to bring about physical destruction; and, second, on the basis of a subjective standard, the existence of a protected group being targeted by the authors of criminal conduct. However, the crucial element of genocidal intent appears to be missing, at least as far as the central Government authorities are concerned. Generally speaking the policy of attacking, killing and forcibly displacing members of some tribes does not evince a specific intent to annihilate, in whole or in part, a group distinguished on racial, ethnic, national or religious grounds. Rather, it would seem that those who planned and organized attacks on villages pursued the intent to drive the victims from their homes, primarily for purposes of counter-insurgency warfare.
The Commission does recognise that in some instances individuals, including Government officials, may commit acts with genocidal intent. Whether this was the case in Darfur, however, is a determination that only a competent court can make on a case by case basis. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1419
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 02:46 pm: |
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WHICH IS BULLSHIT
WHITE PEOPLE'S WAY OF NOT CARING BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY BUSY MOPPING UP RWANDA....some more Africans they didn't care about.
If was is going in Sudan were happening in Spain or Luxembourg or Canada
...they would declare it GENOCIDE.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1421
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 02:48 pm: |
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Damn.
Slow Poke just WON $25 from me on the Kola "Contest" board.
Drats!
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 438
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 02:58 pm: |
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I know it's annoying on a board to post stuff like this and not offer perspective, opinion, commentary. So, here's about 23 cents worth from me.
I think the issue of "genocide" as a formal description has saveral layers.
First, I think our ability to make a case for genocide--either legally, or in the hearts and minds of the public--has been hampered by the lazy use of the word in all sorts of other contexts. For example, I have publically stated (in my blog and elsewhere) that I think the situation with the child welfare system and the huge racial disparities in parental rights termination is just appalling.
But unlike some, I do not go so far as to call it "genocide"--even in a metaphorical sense.
This is similar, to me, to playing the "lynching" card. (Which I've also reflected on publically.) No, Clarence Thomas was not "lynched"--neither was Bill Clinton, or Michael Jackson, or any other similar circumstance we might want to employ the word (again, either meant literally or figuratively).
I think such uses of these high stakes words means that, over time, they lose their power to be applied to the truly, most serious circumstances to which they are most relevant.
Second, I think that many of us have a naive view of what consequences are possible even if we are able to legally call this situation "genocide." Maybe I am speaking for myself, but I have this image that if only we can call something like this Sudanese situation "genocide" it will be like flashing the Bat-signal in the night sky: In will swoop the caped crusader himself to set wrongs right.
In reality, I think we use a lot of time on semantics--use up all our fight and our energy and our social capital. Then we don't have anything left to enact and maintain the necessary action part.
I don't know. This is all gut level reaction right now. I welcome all discussion since it will only serve to help me further think thru my (very embryonic) position. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 439
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 02:59 pm: |
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If was is going in Sudan were happening in Spain or Luxembourg or Canada they would declare it GENOCIDE.
I agree 100%. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1422
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 03:06 pm: |
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Yvette,
ONE THING I agree with many African Immigrants in California about...
...is that there is a Cultural GENOCIDE of the Black Americans going on.
The Media, the Prison System and the Black Hip Hop Youth are LITERALLY "exterminating" their own ancestors, their own families and kin folk.
And because I AM from North Africa, I believe that's real.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1423
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 03:11 pm: |
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But I agree with you YVETTE about the over-use and MIS-use of "words"...which then dilutes the power of the words.
**And where has Mahogany disappeared to I wonder?
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Mahoganyanais
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mahoganyanais
Post Number: 558
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 04:24 pm: |
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**And where has Mahogany disappeared to I wonder?
Mahogany is sitting in the airport about to go away for a few days to see a man about a...well, about a few things. ;-) teehee
Then when I get back, I turn around 20 hours later and the girls and I are flying to see my mom in Florida for 8 days. Beach, here we come!
So I might be MIA for a bit. But checking email, though.
Kola, if you are in the market for an agent, I can put you in touch with a college buddy of mine who is an agent and entertainment lawyer (a variety of arts disciplines). He has gotten two of our fellow black alums' excellent debut efforts (one fiction, one non-fiction) published by major publishing houses (or house, can't remember if it was the same publisher or not). Holla.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3317
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 04:24 pm: |
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'Vette,
THANKS for posting the UN Executive Summary. It definitely provides a basis point for solving the problem.
Now, it seems to me the UN's position can be attacked from several angles:
1) Is the UN's definition of "genocide" reasonable/appropriate? There we're essentially making semantics argument of sorts. Essentially, why is..”IS”.
2) Has the UN fairly captured what is occurring in Darfur? Maybe what's REALLY occurring in Darfur is much more akin to the UN's definition of genocide than what's characterized above.
3) How does Darfur compare to other instances where the UN has intervened? Are there clear, definite similarities? If there are, it seems to me the UN could be forced via a lawsuit into acting. Then, one could argue that by NOT acting the UN is in violation of its own mission and, thus, is an illegitimate enterprise.
Maybe some of these could be better understood/address via an analysis of the entire text of the UN's response.
I hear you on the issue of semantic. But the only way you can force the powers that be to act on this matter is to define it...IN WRITING. Only then will can you make them ACCOUNTABLE. |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 04:26 pm: |
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--roXie, you did not see my wink?--
The last people I knew who started a sentence with " I DID like you.. " were actually serious! Sorry for the overreaction. ^.^!
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roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 05:04 pm: |
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Most Americans (black and non-black) don't want to care about africans because:
1) their only access to africa is the impoverished beggars anmd wildlife on National geographic Channel and the discovery channels.
2) their only access to african history is one barley aired program on ancient nubia and the post colonial-era.
3)of the constant images of ousted dictators and wars they see on the evening news.
4)hollywood STILL prefers to make historical epics of blond-haired greeks gladiators.
5)"jet" magazine is STILL the only publication to report stories about black child geniuses (i.e. 13 year olds in college and such).
6)whenever hollywood wants to prove they're not racist, they bring out Halle Berry as they're "proof".
7)The news has taught them to subconciously associate famine with Ethiopia and Somalia.
8)Someone keeps telling the world that Africa is the poorest continent when India(a COUNTRY!) has a larger impoverished population.
9)They never see any images of wealthy africans on TV (unless they watch PBS).
10)Few Americans watch PBS.
11)As our oh so great president has told us, Iraq needs our help the most. -_-'
Some americans even think that slavery was good for blacks just because of that imae of africa they see. I know some people that didn't know certain african nations still had active royal families! To them Africa is a continent with no history of it's own, no culture of any signifigance and a people not worthy of a child's dignity, and all because of the propaganda that continues to plague american TV.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1427
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 09:18 pm: |
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Great points, Roxie.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3319
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 10:56 pm: |
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roXie,
All of that is true. But the biggest problem I see is the entire continent of Africa does NOT have the power to counter all the lies/misinformation you cite.
In the end, the only thing anyone REALLY "care about" is POWER. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3323
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 09:37 am: |
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While listening to CSPAN in the background, I hear it being said there the Bush Administration and American Christian groups that are trying to help rescue Sudanese. But its believed the America's controversial involvement in Iraq lessens the political will for Americans to do more. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3327
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 09:54 am: |
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I think ALL Black people are ignorant of and in denial about what's going on in the world and what our place in it should be. And it's that denial/ignorance that keep us where we are. |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 10:33 am: |
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To Abm:
that's because most blacks are unaware of the worldly contributions made by enslaved american blacks and jim-crow era AAs. many know very little information beyond what they saw in "Roots". It's like they say "you don't know where you are going until you know where you've been" (I think thats how the saying goes). Unfortunatley television keeps subliminally telling blacks that they were unfortunate victims that were unable to do for themselves when in reality slaves were really responsible for bringing rice to N.america, the banjo,and for getting their own freedom (not lincoln)among other things. If we weren't strong people we would be extinct by now, having been wiped out by the consant cruelty of slave owners and klansman. But we're not because our ancestors WERE strong, strong enough to keep their humanity intact, their stories alive through memory, to find ways to defy their master's attempts to supress them and their ways completely,and to help each other when no one else would. Heck, evolution advocates can use us as a perfect example of "survival of the fittest".
Back to my point, not a lot of blacks ( or whites) see this side of slavery, or the slave children who became contributors to government and science. IMHO that's part of the reason we have self-pitying "blingers" walking atround now. Sad.  |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3328
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 10:50 am: |
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roXie,
No offense. But I don't see that as the problem.
I don't think our knowledge or lack there of our past/present contributions is what's holding us back. Rather, I think we do NOT want to embrace such because doing so might place upon us an obligation/mission we mostly seek to avoid.
I think when the African met the European EVERYTHING changed. And we've yet to fully understand/appreciate it.
It's as if we're still trying to live in home that's long since been destroyed by a hurricane.
You're focusing on American Slavery/Racism. But to me the issue transcends the US. Because Black foks are struggling all over.
We have the worst political, economic, educational and technological systems. And, worse, we seem to depend on OTHERS - who previously enslaved/colonized us - to rescue us.
It's that kind of ineffectual thinking, not just slavery/racism itself, that thwarts our advancement. |
roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 11:02 am: |
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--It's that kind of ineffectual thinking, not just slavery/racism itself, that thwarts our advancement.--
That's the point I was making. There are multiple generations of uneducated black people with very low life standards who perpetuate the cycle of their own poverty . Some Black children are not encouraged to learn and excel academically by their own families and that's making it easier for the mainstream to exploit them. Not only are they unaware of the diasporan history of black people, but some people don't even know who Rosa Parks is(some are adults too, I'm not kidding!).
@-@
Also, for many blacks(and other americans) Tv is their ONLY access to information. Grade school history classes and Television, even those run by BLACKS, provide little information outside the usual Harriet Tubman and MLK, making some black students bored of history. I've taken a class that claimed it's syllibus covered GLOBAL African diasopran history when it only covered the Americas.
--You're focusing on American Slavery/Racism. But to me the issue transcends the US. Because Black foks are struggling all over.--
I agree, but I can't speak on behalf of other people of african decent, only my own , when it comes to what my branch of the diaspora needs in improvement. They've been in such a long spell of self pity and dependancy(resulting from the combination of a lack of academic encouragement at home, the propaganda on TV, pressure from their peers, and limited support from other groups of AAs and other diasporans) that to make a complete 180 and to hold their own responsibility is tantamount to a drug intervention for some of these. We need to break them from that long spell with new african/african american history curriculums and expand the mentor program. We need more African/ AA discussion groups outside the web (since there are still those w/o computers). For these currently "bewitched" people the struggle has to start at home or with themselves. These people need a sincere purpose to excel, whether it's to help Africa take back it's stolen glory or to be the first in the family to WANT to go to college and resist the deceptions of Fifty-cent and Al Sharpton. One has to help ones self first before they help the rest.
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roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 11:07 am: |
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--It's that kind of ineffectual thinking, not just slavery/racism itself, that thwarts our advancement.--
That's the point I was making. There are multiple generations of uneducated black people with very low life standards who perpetuate the cycle of their own poverty . Some Black children are not encouraged to learn and excel academically by their own families and that's making it easier for the mainstream to exploit them. Not only are they unaware of the diasporan history of black people, but some people don't even know who Rosa Parks is(some are adults too, I'm not kidding!).
@-@
Also, for many blacks(and other americans) Tv is their ONLY access to information. Grade school history classes and Television, even those run by BLACKS, provide little information outside the usual Harriet Tubman and MLK, making some black students bored of history. I've taken a class that claimed it's syllibus covered GLOBAL African diasopran history when it only covered the Americas.
--You're focusing on American Slavery/Racism. But to me the issue transcends the US. Because Black foks are struggling all over.--
I agree, but I can't speak on behalf of other people of african decent, only my own , when it comes to what my branch of the diaspora needs in improvement. They've been in such a long spell of self pity and dependancy(resulting from the combination of a lack of academic encouragement at home, the propaganda on TV, pressure from their peers, and limited support from other groups of AAs and other diasporans) that to make a complete 180 and to hold their own responsibility is tantamount to a drug intervention for some of these. We need to break them from that long spell with new african/african american history curriculums and expand the mentor program. We need more African/ AA discussion groups outside the web (since there are still those w/o computers). For these currently "bewitched" people the struggle has to start at home or with themselves. These people need a sincere purpose to excel, whether it's to help Africa take back it's stolen glory or to be the first in the family to WANT to go to college and resist the deceptions of Fifty-cent and Al Sharpton. One has to help ones self first before they help the rest.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 443
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 11:10 am: |
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Somewhat related, what do you all think of this?
"Should we make 'Make Poverty History' history?"
...Hitchens' witty conceit was that Live 8 - an international music-fest fronted by Bob Geldof and Midge Ure to 'raise awareness' about the Make Poverty History campaign, a kind of belated sequel to their 1985 effort, Live Aid - was more about feeding pop egos than feeding the world. Once again, he wrote, 'the hungry, terrorised children of Africa' are being called upon 'to help rescue the sagging reputations of that needy and deprived group of balding, clapped-out rock stars who still long for the crowds that once listened to them'. Ouch...
More: http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CABA8.htm
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3330
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 12:34 pm: |
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roXie,
Poor and ignorant Blacks are blamed FAR too much for our ills. Though we don’t want to accept such, the weakest of us are but a reflection of the overall frailty of ALL Blacks.
Simply: If our smart/strong truly were such our weak would be smarter/stronger too.
ALL Black people throughout the world are ‘poor’. Everysingleoneofus are.
Even that which some of us so-called rich Black foks have PALE in comparison to that of our White counterparts.
Our wealthy wield little real power.
And what little power we possess is applied in insubstantial ways.
Take what’s occurring in Darfur as an example.
Kola’s people are being slain, raped and displaced largely because Blacks throughout the world – especially in the US - are politically, economically and militaristically impotent. Otherwise, we could/would effect the cessation of the evils occurring in the Sudan.
That’s certainly what White foks did in Kosovo in the ‘90’s
Yes you CAN speak for all Africans, not just African American. For, doesn’t the self-pity and dependence you refer to exist universally amongst us?
‘Vette,
I understand what Hitchens/O’Neil is saying and share their general sentiment. Yes, these ‘Save Africa’ are largely fund/esteem quickening schemes.
Still, the easiest way for Africa to absolve itself of European/American pity is to STOP being pitiful.
Charity, no matter how ennoble, will never eradicate widespread poverty. Only a fairly strong, diverse and equitable economic system will.
Btw: While watching 60 Minutes last night, I observed an young African woman who was currently attending an American college lament how little nourishment she received while she was a child. What I found interesting about that is her village seems replete with a lush variety of foliage. And she says although she enjoys America she’ll NEVER abandon her African home. So as she speaking, I couldn’t help thinking if she REALLY wants to help her people, she might consider majoring in Agriculture. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1435
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 02:03 pm: |
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You ALL are making brilliant points.
I wish we could pipe your ideas to the people who matter.
I'm in the SPLA, and you'd be amazed at how "dead-brained" so many African leaders are.
On second thought, with so many "dead-brained" AA leaders----you wouldn't be amazed.
I tell you..."blacks" everywhere, are VERY alike, despite the differences. They're so alike that it's scary.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3333
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 02:40 pm: |
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Kola,
The cynic in me believes "the people who matter" are well-abreast of what we speak, but choose to do nothing because they already benefit from the status quo. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 1438
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 02:51 pm: |
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ABM--
you're 100% right.
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roXie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 09:48 pm: |
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I agree.(*cough*Fiftycent*Cough*) |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 3403
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 10:36 am: |
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Roxie,
Indeed (*cough*Oprah*hack*Cosby*gag*Condi*spit*). |
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