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ABM
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 2297
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 04:52 pm: | 
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Kola,
It’s easy for someone to criticize how a player played the game AFTER the game has long since been over.
Dr. King fought for Black people rights to enjoy the most basic of accommodations/rights that should be afforded to any American.
This made complete practical sense given Blacks were being compelled to pay, fight and even DIE for such.
Blacks were being required via their labor and tax dollars to help build, fund and preserve the University of Alabama. So they sure-as-f*#$ deserved the opportunity to attend it. That don’t have $#*+ to do with our wanting to have biracial children(...anymore than my buying a pack of Dentene at a local 7-11 means I’m out to knock-boots with its female Pakistani store operator).
Many of us like to get on our high-horses and rant about how/where the Civil Rights Movement went wrong – that more time/emphasis should have been placed on commerce, schooling, community, family, etc.
Perhaps...
But if you can’t even secure the most basic of human rights (...cause a gang of White mofo’s can - with the tacit approvals of the local mayor and sheriff offices - kick in your door, drag you out of your home and string you up in the nearest sturdy tree), how the F*#$ are you going to run a business, educate your children and build/maintain a safe and prosperous family/community?
For example:
Black foks built their own viable stock exchange nearly 90 years ago - before Dr. King had even been born - in Tulsa, Oklahoma. What happened to what they had achieved: Hateful, jealous White foks killed them off and destroyed all remains of it.
Who knows how Blacks might have developed commercially had what was started in Tulsa been permitted to develop and grow? It could have been the spur to economic progression amongst Blacks to a degree akin to that of the current multi-trillion$ NYSE and NASDAQ.
Yes. Dr. King’s and supporters plans/actions were NOT foolproof. Often, great feats must be achieved in stages, where one milestone must be reached prior to another…then another.
Also, the world changes. So does your nemesis. And so must we.
So it is NOT the memory/spirit of Dr. King that has failed us. Rather, WE have failed to use the opportunities he (and Malcolm, Harriet, Medgar, etc.) so bravely conferred to us.
PS: Kola you are an immensely brave and talented woman. Your accomplishments appear to be on course to surpass even your bravado. But often you seem to forget A LOT of simple, anonymous Black Americans – especially Black women – have had to eat $#*+ from Whites for you to enjoy the privilege of pompously flashing your n*pple$ before an adoring public. |
kola@aalbc.com
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 527
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 05:01 pm: |
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I love Dr. King and you've taken something I said the wrong way, ABM.
While I love and appreciate Dr. King's valiant victories.
I still admire Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey FAR MORE....and I actually read from their writings and use their ideologies in my everyday living. I don't do that with KING, because I believe that his victories were more for a specific time, although I find his "thinking" relevant and totally AGREE with it----but I see Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey's visions being TIMELESS and definitely prescribed for both Africa and Black America TODAY. Everything that Malcolm X wrote/said has become the world we actually live in----his VISION for us as blacks and as Africans (as he spoke in Sudan) has become the MAP and PLAN for my own life. He is truly our greatest King after Garvey.
____________________
Ghandi hated Black African people, therefore, I could give a shit about his "principles" of peace in saving the Indians. Like Mother Theresa, he's just another two-faced bitch.
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As well, I have done much in my work to HONOR black women...far more than black males, ABM.
I don't know why you started this whole new thread rather than commented in the one where I said something.
Anyway...I LOVE DR. KING and he think of him as a GREAT, GREAT man.
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kola@aalbc.com
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 529
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 05:11 pm: |
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ABM...I never said that Dr. King's actions weren't right in the 1960's.
WE HAD TO HAVE INTEGRATION.
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I would have stood behind Dr.King 100%!!
That still doesn't change the FACT that in hindsight, our people were not mentally EQUAL or truly ready for the obliteration of their culture that would come once they were unleashed into a WHITE WORLD.....filled with WHITE FOLKS who believed in their superiority every inch as much as blacks believe in their inferiority.
In the 1960's, I doubt we even took the notion of "self-hatred" seriously, not in the U.S. and not in Africa-----because we had never been TESTED. It wasn't even a thought to us; that we could hate ourselves and covet others.
Black People thought they were the SHIT in 1968. So how could we have forseen the results?
Your analogy is totally unfair and totally disregards the point I made.
Dr. KING did EXACTLY WHAT I WOULD HAVE DONE (my own hero, Malcolm had been killed, remember?). KING lead us the best way he could.
But in 2005....we can definitely LEARN from what has happened to us.
And what happened to us via Integration....is almost our total destruction.
________________________________
As Dr. King said two weeks before his death:
"I don't know if I'm leading my people to freedom or into a burning house."
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ABM
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 2299
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 12:05 pm: |
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Kola,
I posted this separately from the other post because I wanted to discuss and clarify some of the uncomplimentary references you made regarding Dr. King without confusing this with non-related issues.
Dr. King didn’t advocate integration. He urged equal rights/protections under the law. He may have included non-Blacks within his struggles. But he did as more a tactic than a mission.
And I admire the much of what Garvey and X spoke/wrote of. But how can you put them above Dr. King?
Name a single policy/law that either Malcolm X or Marcus Garvey helped institute that has directly benefited Black people.
Dr. King, perhaps more than any other, directly help to kill off Jim Crow, which subjected millions of Blacks to a century of mistreatment. It is what Dr. King did – not X or Garvey – that has allowed what people who look like you and I do here possible. |
kola@aalbc.com
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 533
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 12:38 pm: |
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Name a single policy/law that either Malcolm X or Marcus Garvey helped institute that has directly benefited Black people.
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That's just my point.
Like Nelson Mandela and Booker T. Washington----Dr. King is the White People's CHOICE for us. They QUOTE him more than we do. Because of the threat of Garveyism and Malcolm X---they had to pick someone whose policies and actions they could live with. OTHERWISE...blacks would have literally ripped and tore this nation apart with their bare hands. It was LEADING to that---and someone like X would have carried out bloody war.
ABM...you also ignore that Malcolm X came to SUDAN and was hugely popular there, as he was known as "Red Rooster" and proclaimed himself a son of Africa. Obviously, that has a great deal to do with my feelings.
Whites always PICK our leaders.
Of all the thousands of ancient African Kings who did great things....they pick someone like OTHELLO, a true Pogo-nigger whose entire tribe, the Moores, has been wiped out aka the American Indians...to make a movie about.
No film would dare be made of KATANGA or any other Black King who defied and DEFEATED Europeans. But Othello's sorry ass is chosen by whites to be recognized. Ditto CLEOPATRA.
Go to South Africa, the PEOPLE love Winnie Mandela far more than Nelson--because Winnie is uncompromisingly for the people and she advocated throwing the whites OUT of South Africa (I agree with her on that).
Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey put a fire under this nation's ass.....and Dr. King was the viable alternative.
And actually, I like King's MENTOR Vernon Johns quite a bit too.
VERNON JOHNS was a heavy duty man.
Don't get me wrong. I totally appreciate and love Dr. King for what he did and I agree with his theology and his decisions.
But it's like picking between PRINCE and Michael Jackson. I like PRINCE better.
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ABM
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 2302
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 01:04 pm: |
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Kola,
I'm sick-n-damn tired of Dr. King being painted as some effete machination of White people.
White foks did NOT pick Dr. King to lead Black foks. Smart, savvy country BLACK people did!
If Dr. King get any 'love' from Caucasians now it was because he sure as hell earned it.
And, this alleged lovethang Whites have for Dr. King is VERY much a recent phenomenon. Because when Dr. King died he was one of the most loathed/feared men in the country.
Even MANY Blacks of that time would have rather he just go away.
But Dr. King didn't. He fought for us...even in spite of our own damn selves.
Dude stood in the FRONT of those picket lines in Memphis, Selma and Chicago staring that White devil (with shotguns, torches and guard dogs in tow) eye-to-eye.
Dr. was THREATENED, SPIED ON, SEARCHED, SPAT UPON, STRUCK, STONED, STABBED...then SHOT DEAD.
And even though Dr. King knew, even publicly conceded, he would NOT "get to the promise land" with the rest of us, he still had the courage and faith to continue to "march on 'til victory is won.
Dr. King was NOT just some figurehead General. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was a motherfucking WARRIOR! |
kola@aalbc.com
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 534
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 01:19 pm: |
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OK ABM.
I see you didn't read my post.
But OK.
You want orange juice with those waffles or coffee, handsome?
And take your feet off the table!!
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ABM
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 2303
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 01:31 pm: |
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I read/understood what you're saying. I wonder whether you did the same with mine.
But, oh well.
I'd prefer both OJ and java with my breakfast, Beautiful  . But can you swap the waffles with French Toast...with a little powdered sugar on top.
And, okay. I'll put one of my other 'appendages' on the table instead? *wink* |
Slow Poke
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 01:49 pm: |
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ABM, just curious.
Who do like between Sojourner Truth and Harriett Tubman?
Most people like Harriett Tubman, but on close inspection, Sojourner Truth was the badder of the two IMO.
I always felt that Frances Ellen Watkins Harper and Ida B. Wells were just as great as Tubman and Truth, but they never got their just do. In fact, Frances Ellen Watkins Harper reminds me of an early Kola Boof. Check out the speech she gave to White Feminists in the 1800's when she basically called them a bunch of racist white bitches. No kidding. You have to read that speech.
I suspect that Malcolm X's overwhelming popularity with Black women is that he verbally addressed their issues, such as colorism, and married, as Alice Walker says, a very dark ordinary looking black woman. Most people I've talked to seem to regard Malcolm as more "hip" and "manly" than Dr. King, but I'm with you ABM, I don't see why.
MLK was really quite fiery, and anyone that doesn't see that, simply wasn't back in the day. You are right ABM when you say that many blacks were afraid to follow him. He was hell on white folks and boy could he use language the way others use a pistol. He was bad. I think his control of his temper made him even more volatile and dangerous than X. Yet Kola is right that the White media has watered Dr. King's image down so that they could embrace him. You find Dr. King on the wall in white homes and white girls constantly quote his sayings. Now word has come that he was in love with a white woman behind Coretta's back. The media and school system uses his non-violent stance to put blacks in check.
A lot of it has to do with how the media reinvents people and portrays them rather than how they really were. X was actually quite dapper with a great sense of humor. He liked everybody. Garvey was charismatic, yet today they are both portrayed as Dogmatic dictators out for blood. Which probably appeals to Kola. LOL
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ABM
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 2306
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 02:06 pm: |
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Slow Poke,
Truth, Harper and Wells were all remarkable women. But to me, their accomplishments, as great as they were, pale in comparison to those of Tubman.
Harriet Tubman was the living embodiment of what it MEANS to be free.
This chick freed herself from slavery. Went back to get her family, friends...strangers.
The slavers came to KNOW she was coming to get our people. And she fucking came ANYWAY! What it took for her to do THAT was beyond 'courage'.
*WHEW!*
Honestly. Whenever I think about what Tubman did, when I imagine the circumstances upons which she did them, my eyes well-up with tears.
Harriet Tubman is quite possibly the bravest, noblest American - White/Black, Man/Woman - to have ever lived. |
Kola Boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 127
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 02:09 pm: |
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ABM,
Your taste is IMPECCABLE, because I love FRENCH TOAST and I make them soooooooo good.
Only problem is, mines are about 3,000 calories a slice (once I put the melted rum syrup and apple sugar cane gravy and THEN the powdered sugar on top)---so I try to stay away from those bad boys-----because I LOOOOVE milk and must have a tall glass with any kind of bread/cake.
GOD, I wish I could just feed you one time.
You ever had fried apples and cinnamon with cranberry squash and lime herb? That's a TENNESSEE--NORTH CAROLINA thing my Nana taught me.
It's mainly to make the house smell good when you men are waking up....gets you ready for your eggs and taters and whatnot. That's how we would get my daddy up early enough to get him to go to church. LOL
By the time I was 13, Mother and Nana trusted me enough to make my daddy's breakfast ALL BY MYSELF!!!!!! "AND" my brothers and sister's breakfeast.
I love making a big breakfast, but my boys don't want anything but.........CEREAL. My own homemade cereal, of course, but still---I don't get to make them anything fancy for breakfast. They ask for Cheese Eggs with bacon and toast....OCCASIONALLY.
I guess I'll get CRYSTAL to come out here one day and I'll stuff her full of treats just so I can get a chance to cook something.
It's always a treat to cook for women, too, because they're not used to it and they LOOOOVE to just sit back, talk shit and eat good food. And they're more appreciative and love to try new dishes you've made. So it's a lot of fun cooking for them, too.
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ABM
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 2307
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 02:11 pm: |
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Slow/Kola,
I don't give a f*#$ what Whites say/think about Dr. King. That's really pretty irrelevant to me.
WE should know the truth about him. And if we don't, SHAME on us!
And if our children don't, it's OUR fault, not anyone else's. |
kola@aalbc.com
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 535
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 02:12 pm: |
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Yep. I'm going to get Crystal out here to be my Guinea Pig.
I wonder does she take a little drink from time to time?
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ABM
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 2308
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 02:15 pm: |
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And if a statue of a single Black person is ever to placed at the center of this nation's capital, it should be a larger-than-life likeness of Harriet Tubman! |
ABM
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 2309
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 02:22 pm: |
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Kola,
You are such a seductress. Whenever you start talking about food, you make a brothah wanna just...well...ummmmm!
Don't start me to dreamin', babe. Because oh how high the mind can soar.
PS: I'd LOVE to see you and Crystal in a kitchen too. 'Course, the cookin' I have in mind isn't just 'culinary' in nature. Hehe! |
kola@aalbc.com
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 536
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 02:38 pm: |
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Hi ABM.
I agree about Harriet, but I do see Sojourner as her equal and there should be a statue of her as well. Because we can use a single sentence to sum up Harriet's achievements, and because she was more PHYSICAL---I think we tend to overlook the gigantic actions made by Truth and many of us know her name, but are not educated about specifically....the things she did.
For instance, when she took the state of Louisiana to court over their enslavement of her son(this is a woman who could not read or write, mind you, and died illiterate)....and was her own lawyer and BEAT the state of Louisiana and got her son free.....that was just unbelievable.
Not to mention the fact that she had been a slave in NEW YORK, with a Dutch accent, not a Southern one as MEDIA portrayed it----and that she did so much to bring about Feminism and Abolitionism. Although I do love Frances Harper (she was adopted as a small child), I agreed MORE with Sojourner's vision of feminism, which was more African---not to take anything away from Harper's eloquent refusal to be joined with White Women, which is something I can definitely relate to as well.
Sojourner was also one of the FIRST blacks to recognize the power of Media and used images of herself and formulated speeches to manipulate it---something Frederick Douglass and her other contemporaries did not do. Sojourner was a brilliant Orator and her speeches REMAIN to this day my very favorite speeches---even better than the ones by Malcolm X and Martin Luther King (King actually being my 2nd favorite Speech Giver after Truth, then Jesse Jackson).
But anyway, Truth was supremely annointed and won many important court battles---an illiterate woman as her own lawyer---that greatly challenged the notions of black intellect and black humanity. Abraham Lincoln's praise and amazement with her was definitely warranted.
And if one does some major digging....they will find that the Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor was modeled from a FRENCH statue, "The Libyan Sibyl" which was directly inspired by Sojourner Truth.
Harriett Tubman and Sojourner Truth
I can't possibly choose between those two--mainly because of Sojourner's ability as an Illiterate person to turn whole court cases on their heads and her ability to speak so well about the issues of her people. They were both from another world.
These are what you call GODDESSES in the true sense.
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Slow Poke
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 03:43 pm: |
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ABM, I'm with you, sarge.
I totally agree about Dr. King and Harriett Tubman as well.
I think those are our two best.
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