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AALBC.com's Thumper's Corner Discussion Board » Culture, Race & Economy - Archive 2003 » Mood Music « Previous Next »

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ABM

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Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 03:12 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(Intended Listener => Song Title - Song Performer)

* "Anonymouses" => "Mind Playing Tricks On Me" - Geto Boys
* Carey => "Mother Nature's Son" - Ramsey Lewis
* Chris => "Black Steel In The Hour Of Chaos" - Public Enemy
* Cynique => "Back And Forth" - Cameo
* Daniecia => "Everything (...Is Never Quite Enough) " - Wasis Diop
* Judy => "Love's Theme" - "the LATE GREAT" Barry White
* Kola => "What Color Is Love?" - Terry Callier
* Yukio => "I Try" - Angela Bofill

* Thumper => "That's The Way Of The World" - Earth, Wind & Fire
* Troy => "If You Love Somebody Set Them Free" - Sting

* EVERYBODY => "We're In This Love Together" - Al Jarreau
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Chris Hayden

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Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 10:21 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ABM:

Public enemy? Me? You flatter me.

I always fancied myself more a Burl Ives man. "Jimmy crack corn and I don't care--"
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Cynique

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Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 11:36 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You left yourself off the list ABM. Not to worry.
* ABM => "I Believe I Can Fly"
R. Kelly
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ABM

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Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 12:16 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chris,
Have you ever heard "Black Steel In...". If not, you should check it out. It GREAT!

Burl Ives??? JEEZZ! Wasn't he the Santa Claus in Natalie Wood's "Christmas on 34th Street"?


Cynique,

That's a good song. But being a father of 2 young daughters, I won't listen to a song written/performed by a probable pedophile.

Feel free to offer an alternative...though I'm thinking "Magic Stick" - Lil' Kim, featuring 50 Cents suits me just fine. ((WINK!))
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Thumper

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Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 03:14 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello All,

ABM: Gee, thanks. Although I prefer "Dr. Feelgood" -- Aretha Franklin. And now since I just got some good news, I can now be "So Damn Happy" -- Aretha Franklin.
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Cynique

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Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 09:33 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And while we're at it, ABM. you can come "forth" and take Cameo "back." I prefer "Sweet Taboo" by Sade.
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Carey

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Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 09:35 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello ABM

Ramsey's not bad, he's not one of my favorites but not bad.

How about for you: "Mercy Mercy Mercy" ----Cannonball
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Chris Hayden

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Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 11:25 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique:

I hate Sade.

ABM:

Yes I have heard that one (isn't it on It Takes A Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back? Same one as Don't Belive the Hype and Louder Than A Bomb?

That's why I fell back on Ives--he was Frosty the Snowman in that Claymation Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer they always repeated every Xmas--and Big Daddy in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof.

Actually I had been listening to "Hear My Train a comin'" by Jimi Hendrix. Something by Hendrix, Frank Zappa, George Clinton, Howlin Wolf or James Brown probably would sum me up pretty good or maybe something by all five of them--

Actually for Yukio I might suggest Captain Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica
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Cynique

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Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 12:07 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chris:
You hate Sade? Tough. You obviously don't like sultry, mysterious, husky-voiced singers. No accounting for taste.
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Chris Hayden

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Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 12:25 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique:

Sade does not so much sing as exhale in different pitches. If she weren't photogenic they would have laughed her out of the studio when she showed up with her demotapes.

Put on some Ella Fitzgerald and Sarah Vaughn in the background (I know you got some) lay your hand on your computer screen, right now, and pray with me sister. Heal her, Lord! Heal her!
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Cynique

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Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 12:38 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's part of Sade's unique appeal; her pauses and timing. She got that special Zen quality that tranforms lyrics into a smoldering recitation of joy or sorrow. Sara is a moaner. Ella is a mewer. I like them OK. But Sade is my kind of singer. Sorry.
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Chris Hayden

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Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 02:12 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique:

Who do you sing like?
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Cynique

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Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 12:12 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chris:
I sing like myself.
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Chris Hayden

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Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 10:17 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique:

You like to get in the mirror with your hairbrush and mime along to them Sade records, don't you? haha--don't get mad. I like to pretend I'm BullMoose Jackson--sometimes anyways.
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Cynique

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Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 11:18 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not really, Chris. I don't try and emulate Sade. I like her singing, yes, but it was the title "Sweet Taboo" that brought her into the equation as an alternative to "Back And Forth", which was how ABM had characterized me in song. Get it?
Who I really used to want to sound like was a very obscure "cult" vocalist named Jeri Southern. Probably best-known for a song she recorded entitled "You'd Better Go Now."
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yukio

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Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 04:46 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hmmmmm....angela bofill? sounds familar but I can't seem to place my finger on the song.
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Thumper

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Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 10:30 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello All,

Yukio, I'm a big Angela Bofill fan. I Try is one of her best records.

"I try to do all that I could for you
But it seems like its not enough..."

I love that song.
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yukio

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Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 12:00 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok...i'll do a lil research and find the song and i'll get back 2 ya'll!
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ABM

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Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 09:25 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know, Yukio. I mean, Bofill's "I Try" is sort of a classic R&B song (early '80's).

Are you SURE you are Black?
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ABM

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Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 10:00 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique,
I have gotta agree with Chris about Sade. She was ok and her musically was nicely produced, but her voice was at best mediocre. She primarily owes her fame/success to being a photogenic biracial woman who got in the game right when the music video age kicked off, when persona and image became more important than talent/skill. If Sade had come ago 5 - 10 years prior, we would never have heard anything about her.
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ABM

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Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 10:06 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique,
I am vaguely familiar with Southern. Sort of a 50's "torch" singer, with a cool, ice-clear voice.

I like neo-soulster Maxwell. Nice, warm falsetto. Absolutely GREAT begging-2-get-laid music. One of his best is "...Til the Cops Come Knockin'."

But if I could sing like anyone, Baby, it would HAVE to be the late, great MARVIN GAYE!
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Cynique.

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Posted on Friday, October 10, 2003 - 12:00 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, ok, ABM, so you and Chris think Sade is overrated. You two keep saying she made it on her looks, but to me she doesn't look that exceptional. And you don't need to see her, to appreciate her. It's her smoky voice, and the lean tight accompaniment of her back-up band that gets her over. She did win a Grammy for best new artist, and she has proven her longevity. After 15+ years, her albums still go platinum and her concerts still sell out. As for Maxwell, to me, he and DeAngelo are Prince clones. Which, of course, is pretty good company to be in. And it goes without saying, that Marvin was The Man.
And I do share your surprise at Yukio being unfamiliar with "I Try" by Angela Bofill. I can't believe she never heard of this gem. Wonder what her research will yield. Jussst kiddin', Yukio.
And, yes, Jeri Southern was a fixture on the New York circuit of intimate jazz clubs starting back in the 50s on up until the 80s. She only recorded a few albums, but she always maintained her small loyal fan base. Her alto voice was, indeed, cool and clear.
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Beautifulwaterstar

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Posted on Friday, October 10, 2003 - 09:17 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Ya'll. How has everything been? CYNIQUE FORGOT ABOUT ME ALREADY? *throwing tantrum* lol
Okay.. I know you didn't really just "know" me, but I would like a song as well or you WILL be hearing from my lawyer (Johnnie Cochran, so don't play *or however you spell it* lol)!

Another thing about Sade, ABM, is her SPIRIT. I think it's probably the thing that does it the most for me.. True her band is absolutely wonderful and so are her lyrics as well as her voice.. But her spirit is just illuminating. (to me.)
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ABM

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Posted on Friday, October 10, 2003 - 09:42 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique (& Beautifulwaterstar),
I agree Maxwell & DeAngelo are Prince-wannabes (without his enormous depth and diversity of musical skills).

I am not saying Sade does not have her merits. I, like you, enjoy several of her songs, although I credit her musical producer(s)/arranger(s) as much as I do her for the success of her music. She is indeed a competent and professional singer & performer, who has an alluring stage presence, which is a rare combination of artistic traits when compared to what is currently being proffered in popular A&E. For those reasons, as you say, her records/concerts continue to be popular.

But come on now, let’s be serious; comparing Sade to Ella Fitzgerald and Sarah Vaughn is akin to comparing ground chuck to fillet mignon.

What I (& I think Chris) am saying that - in addition to her talent - she also presented, for that time, a uniquely exotic image to popular music(culture). It is the same reason why the blue-eyed Vanessa William (Fox) was selected to be the first African American Miss America and why the biracial Halle Berry enjoys untold success/acclaim in Tinsel Town. Yes Williams and Berry are talented/industrious...but they also look "diff'rent".

Think: Prior to Sade, how many slender, hi-yella with long/straight-hair, attractive half-British/half-African jazz/R&B singers were there? (And are there even any NOW?)

If you want wonderfully authentic, yet commercial, jazz singing, get thee to sum' Cassandra Wilson.


Carey,
I just checked out "Mercy Mercy Mercy" - Cannonball. Thanks, Man! That is a wonderful song! Almost a fusion of blues/gospel/jazz. I have already listened to it +1/2 dozen times.

Have you ever heard Lewis' "Mother Nature's Son"? Please do if you have not. It is a swirling, epic jazz tune of soaring depth and unsurpassed craftsmanship. You can find it on Lewis' euphonious "Maiden Voyage" album.


Thumper,
Thanks with the assist to describe "I Try" to Yukio. I guess I wrongly assumed most adult Black folks would be familiar with that song.

Ditto on "Dr. Feelgood" and "So Damn Happy", although we'd probably agree that to call ANY Aretha Franklin song great would be redundant.


Chris,
You are right. "Black Steel In The Hour Of Chaos" is on Public Enemy's hip/hop classic "It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back" album.

Ok, to be honest, I too am a Burl Ives fan. He was a good singer. I too dig his claymation voice-over on Frosty the Snowman. And his imposing "Big Daddy" in the cinematic version of "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" was indeed a memorable character. Scribe Tennessee Williams sure exposed the lives of the "big-house" Southern white foks, didn't he? Williams' revelatory writing, deft direction by Richard Brooks and candid acting by Ives, Paul Newman & Elizabeth Taylor made "Cat..." into a steamy, smoldering classic of familial dysfunction and angst.

I wonder if director Brooks made them act in real southern heat.

BTW: Do you agree that both Newman/Taylor - ala Clark Gable, Ava Gardner, Humphery Bogart, Lauren Bacall, Charleston Heston, Natalie Wood - are those very RARE white actors whose charisma & personas seemed to defy racial stricture?


Yukio,
I was just kidding with the "...SURE you are Black?" quip. No need to get your undies in a tussle. k?


Beautifulwaterstar,
Well Darlin', I don't know much about ya. But thus far, you seem like a sistah who would dig "Sinnerman" - the late, great Nina Simone.

Enjoy! But get yourself plenty of room, some comfortable shoes and a couple of church "ushahs"...'cause Sistah Simone might make you "catch the HOLY GHOST".
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Cynique

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Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 12:19 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, Phooey, ABM, Chris was the one who offered up Sara and Ella to compare with Sade. I didn't; in fact, I don't even compare Sara and Ella, both of whom don't currently enjoy broad popularity except among jazz afficionados. All 3 singers represent different vocal styles. I'd compare Sade more to Billie Holiday - another sultry exotic "high yella"* singer, on the scene long before Sade was even born. And can you say "Lena Horne"* or "Hadda Brooks"*?? Yeah, Cassandra Wison's cool, but I think Dianne Reeve is considered a more authetic jazz singer.

And one final word. Natalie Wood?? You gotta be kiddin. The epitome of mediocraty!
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ABM

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Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 12:33 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique,

Hey! Hey, Baby! Simmer down a bit. No need to get yourself all huffy.

You are right. My (or Chris') views are no more/less valid than yours or anyone else's. To each his/her own.

BTW: I wasn't necessarily saying Wood was a good actress. I just said that she, like the others I mentioned, seem to have an "universal appeal" about her.
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ABM

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Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 12:53 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique,
I prefer Cassandra Wilson to Dianne Reeves. And I disagree that Reeves is more authentically jazz than is Wilson.

Reeves' musical accompaniment has more of the traditional jazz band sound than does Wilson's, who's music is a bit more whimsical, even at times mystical. But Wilson's singing is every bit that of jazz as that of Reeves'.

Don't get me wrong, though. I too am a fan of the classy Reeves. I love her lonesome "I Remember (Sky)" and loving "You Taught My Heart To Sing".
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Beautifulwaterstar

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Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 09:19 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ohhhhh sinnermannnn where ya gonna runnn toooo? LOL
Why thank you, ABM. I LOVEEEEEEEE NINA! *much light to your soul, Nina.* May I ask though why you chose that one for me? :-) (I love "Four Women" by the way just as much..)

Diana is BADDDDDDDD, you hear me!? I was just seeing her do her thing the other day on BET/Jazz. She is just GREAT. How about Lelah Hathaway? People outside of a certain circle seem to not really know how much this sista does her THANG, but she is WONDERFUL! Sounds soooo much like her daddy. ;-)

Okay. So what about Rachelle Ferrel? I just KNOW that you all have to appreciate THAT sister. Hmm.. Let me stop before I name everybody and they' mama. lol
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Carey

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Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 03:39 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ABM

Thanks for enjoying Cannonball. Based on your many posts I've come to believe you really do know a little something about good music. It makes one feel good when someone you respect enjoys a book or music that you have recommended, so again, thanks. You might want to check out another one of Cannonball's called "Country Preacher"....same kind of groove.

"Mother Nature's son" huh....Okay I'm on it.



Psssst....come over here in the corner, I don't want anyone to here this. Hey man, I'm with you on Yukio, we are going to have to check her card. That Angela Bofill thang got me thinking. *smile*
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Old School

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Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 07:26 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If my impression that ABM was not familiar with the classic "Mercy, Mercy, Mercy" by Cannonball Adderly was true, then he can't talk about Yukio. He needs his jazz credentials checked. >> wink <<
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ABM

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Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 08:19 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Actually, I was familiar with "Mercy...", though I had not thought of or heard it since I was a kid. And I am certainly NOT a jazz aficionado. I am just a modestly familiar fan. Still. Touché, Old School. Touché.

Care to "School" me some more, "Old"?
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ABM

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Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 08:22 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carey,

HAHAHA!! I was only pulling Yukio's leg. I think her Black credentials check out bigtime.
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Carey

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Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 10:37 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ABM

HAHAHA.....Yeah I knew that. I was just trying to stir up a little something *smile*. I noticed how ol'Yukio got all taken aback by my girl cynique's ahh ahh shall we say evasive posts. Everybody that's been around this board knows ol'cynique is just having fun and when some take it too seriuosly she just closes the door. So I thought Yukio was an easy target for a little bit of saturday evening jokesterism...is that a word *smile*. I bet Yukio does'nt think it's too funny. You ever notice how some people get all out of wack when you question thier blackness?

I see ol'old school dropped one on you *LOL*.

by the way, who is Old School...where did they come from?

Old School, come on out and play. What else do you know anything about huh huh. I know you ain't going to do a drive-by. I got a little time since my Cubs are spanking the Marlins behind. But James "lights Out" Tony and Evander are about to get it on tonight. I would ask Thump who he had in this fight but I've spanked him so much over the years that he's probably scared to say anything *lol*.

ABM, what do you know about boxing? Jack up your slacks and lay it on me.

Chris is still crying about Sugar getting beat by "The Hands Of Stone", he said it was fixed or something like that. Chris, Did you see your boy Lewis in his last fight, he looked terrible.

For all y'all '"board police" you will have to excuse the non-book talk. Just some fellows kickin' it.

Carey
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ABM

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Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 10:40 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beautifulwaterstar,
Your poems suggest that you have a salvational spirit. Thus, Simone's Sinnerman, which potently invokes the HOLY SPIRIT, seems apropos.

Hathaway and Ferrel are fine vocalists, though their music seems to me to be as much R&B as it is Jazz. Ferrel is an ESPECIALLY wonderful singer. Her voice seems to have much of Whitney Houston's (pre-"chronic") power & clarity but her delivery is more mature and subtle.

And for a romantic complement, I might recommend to you the melodic “Free” - Deniece Williams.
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ABM

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Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 11:29 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chris,
I guess I tossed out to Yukio that "...SURE you are Black?" comment was if you regularly listen to any adult contempory & R&B radio over the last 20 years, you had to have heard that song a "bazillion" times. Right?

Yeah, Old School caught a brothah nappin', didn't she (or he). HEHEHE!!!

Sorry, Chris. I will have to pass on the fight talk as I haven't paid much attention to boxing for the better part of 15 years. To me, the last credible famed fighters were Larry Holmes, Alexis Arguello, Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran (I'd like to include Ray Leonard and Aaron Pryor in that august group, but Leonard was over-hyped and Pryor was a "hype".). In my eyes, the over-embellishment of Mike Tyson and all that has ensued from that has effectively destroyed boxing.

But ditto on your support of the surging Chicago Cubs. Here's to hoping the Brothahman Manager Dusty Baker lead the Cubs to their first World Series victory since THEODORE ROOSEVELT was President.

I pretty much ignore the "Board police" (I wonder if they have to attend the Academy of Whine?). Black folks need as much schooling as they can gather. So I figure if you have something interesting, entertaining and inciteful to say; whether it is about books, movies, politics, sex, etc.; it behooves an intelligent person to speak her(his) mind. But, there's no point to refrying dem "beans".

BTW: I like Yukio a lot. She's very smart, informed and controlled in a way that at times I wish I could emulate. It's just that at times she brings the rascal out of me because she reminds me of that girl who was too prissy to let you chase her around the grade school playground.
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Carey

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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 12:32 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ABM

Ditto on Yukio!!!! She's on top!

Ditto Dusty!!!

Ditto Leonard....you are one of the few that I've heard say that....over hyped.

Man.....you even know your boxing. The fighters you mentioned and that time period was by far the best. My hats off to you my man.



later

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yukio

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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 03:39 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

whoa...it's strange to seek folk talk about u!

I don't have access much to the net...anyways, did i respond 2 ABM questioning my blackness? I haven't found a response, and I don't recall if i did....i know i'm black, so no harm done, here. i haven't heard the bofill song yet....still doing research....perhaps its generational....i'm not as ol' as some of u..lmao...
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Cynique

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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 05:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Surprise, surprise, right here in the heart of Cub Country, and me along with legions of other die-hard White Sox fans are ignoring the hype and looking forward to pulling against our arch rivals when and if they meet the American League team in the world series. Boooooo, Cubs! The intense, century-long rivalry between White Sox and Cub fans has a long tradition, one that is not erased by Chicago partianship. As one Sox fan put it, rooting for the Cubs is like cheating on your girlfriend. The Bulls and Bears are the only teams that inspire unanimous support from Chicagoland denizens!
BTW, ABM, you need to check out who's making some of the comments you are responding to. You seem to be under the impression that Chris Hayden is writing the posts written by Carey! Heads up, guy. LOL
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ABM

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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 08:49 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yukio,
Touché to your "...i'm not as ol' as some of u...". But lissen here, yungin', dis here ol' fella still gotta 'nuff gas in dis here tank ta keep up wit ju. HAHAHA!!!


Cynique,
You Chicagoans are some sick folks. Neither Chicago team has won anything almost since Slavery and you have the audacity to prefer one Chicago team over the other? Tisk, tisk, tisk!

But thanks for noting my erroneous reference(s) to Chris that were intended for Carey (Sorry, Carey & Chris.). I knew who I was responding to, though I mistakenly included Chris. I suppose Carey, perhaps unlike you, realized it was a simple mistake and, thus, considered it unworthy of mentioning.
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Chris Hayden

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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 10:33 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yukio:

When are we gonna rap about "The Silence of Thelonious Monk?"
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Cynique

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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 12:25 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Excuse me, ABM, The Sox won their division last year. The Cubs played in the world series against the Detroit Tigers in 1945, and also were in the play offs in 1969 and 198?, the Sox in 1959 and 1983. The Sox beat the Cubs in a city world series in 1908. So spare me the slavery bit. (They didn't even have baseball back in the 1860s.) You're also playing a little fast and loose with the term "sick." Answer me this: would you root for a rival fraternity in a contest against a neutral opponent? And there is a long-standing history of Mets and Yankee fans hating each other. That's what traditional rivalries are all about. Team loyalty. They exist in every arena of the sports world. And it should be noted that a spirit of fun is at the root of most of these rivalries.
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Yukio

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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 03:57 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ABM:
Do dis intended, just facts, comrade.

CH:
I'm workin on it; i'm still working on the language and some of the literary representations and music motifs i don't quite get.....
I'll have something for u this evening or tomorrow!
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Yukio

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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 03:57 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ABM:
No dis intended, just facts, comrade.

CH:
I'm workin on it; i'm still working on the language and some of the literary representations and music motifs i don't quite get.....
I'll have something for u this evening or tomorrow!
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yukio

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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 06:07 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

CH and Thumper:

Hmmmm...what can i say about Wideman's love letter?

As usual, Wideman's language is so lyrical and confrontationally masculine. The narrative, if one can call it that, seems to be a reflection, as the stories suggests, during silence, which functions as communicator, catalystizing memories of love, pain, and other emotions.

Monk's silence with his colleague KC and the butcher, if i recall correctly, and finally to wideman's "invisible man" is authoritative and patient, and at the same time, his music reflects the emotions, ie sound track, of a moment or the moment that Silence, not necessarily Monk's silence, brings forth. Monk's silence and Silence, therefore, reinforce eachother; both illuminating the "invisible man."

The story reads, i think, like a bout, as the opening paragraph introduces, between lovers: the protagonist and the women(the poets as lovers in a bout) and the protagonist and Monk's music/Monk(who i think i representative a LOVE as teach, albeit of pain or joy).

These are my immediate,rudimentary remarks.....
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ABM

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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 08:17 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You really shouldn't have gone there, Cynique.

First, Slavery ended in 1866. The Cubs won their last World Series (WS) in 1908, just 42 years post-Emancipation and almost 100 years ago. So the Cubs winning is A LOT closer to Slavery than it is to the present. And your beloved cheating, point-shaving, league-wrecking "Black Sox" - who themselves haven't won a WS since 1917 - damn near destroyed baseball at the early part of the 20th Century.

Chicago baseball, both Cubs and Sox, is an embarrassment. The Florida Marlins has been in existence for only 10 years and they have won more WS's...ONE...than both the Cubs/Sox have won over the last 86 years.

So Baby, you Chicagoans ain't got NUTHIN' to crow about when it comes to baseball.

Implicit in the term rivalry is that the combatants are both worthy opponents, which neither the Cubs/Sox have been for most of 100 years. So PUUULLLEEAAASSSEEEE don't even mention the Cubs/Sox in the same breath as the Yankees/Mets. The Yankees have TWENTY SIX World Series. And even the Mets, who have only been around since 1962, have won 2 WS's has been more consistently competitive than either Chicago team. One of the years the Mets won the Series, in 1969, they overtook the gutless Cubs, who had a BIG lead in the Division going into the final month of the season.

Chris, why don't you tell Cynique a thing or 2 about real baseball? Your native St. Louis Cardinal...Ah!...Now there a professional Baseball franchise! In fact, the Cards are the National League finest baseball franchise and ranks behind only the AL NY Yankees in greatness. If you put the entire history of the Cubs/Sox together, it wouldn't be worthy of mentioning next to the Cards.

In fact, if you really wanna get down, if you take Michael Jordan out of the equation, Chicago is BY FAR the crappiest sports town of all the major metropolitan areas. Philly, NYC, LA, San Francisco/Oakland, Boston, Miami all have much more successful sports franchises than has Chi-Town.
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Old Softy

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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 11:57 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey ABM, how's your girlfriend doing?

How'd she like the song you picked for her? Seems a little slight to sum up her to me, but.




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Cynique

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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 12:17 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know why the heck you're going ballistic, ABM. I wasn't bragging about the Chicago teams,
I was citing facts to dispute your claim that the Cubs or Sox hadn't won anything since slavery. I repeat:The Cubs did NOT win the "world series" in 1908; the White Sox won this "contest" which later evolved into being called the world series. I repeat: The Cubs made it to the world series in 1945 playing against Detroit. I repeat: The White Sox won their division championship last year. (BTW, the Emancipation Proclamation was signed in 1863.)All that aside, Chicago was just recently voted the second favorite town to play in by the players on sports teams, and Wrigley Field was voted the favorite ball park in all of baseball. And Chicago franchises are definitely high among the places athletes want to be drafted by because its a great sports venue that makes its athletes very visible, thereby attracting lucrative endorsements.(Which is what their agents tell em.) And didn't you just say you were pulling for the Cubs, hoping they'd beat the Marlins, all the while calling Chicago White Sox fans "sick" for not supporting their cross-town rivals the Cubs. Why don't you make up your mind. For somebody who's always trying to calm other people down, you need to take a chill pill, yourself.
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Cynique

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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 05:42 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ABM:
Correction: My rabid-Cubs fan son tells me The White Sox and the Cubs met in the 1906 world series and the Sox won. The Cubs met the Detroit Tigers in 1908 and won the series.(The latter 2 teams met again in 1945 and the Tigers won.) I got my information from an incorrect source, obviously. My bad.
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ABM

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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 11:35 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique,
The World Series (WS) began in 1903. So the Cubs last championship victory in 1908 is considered a WS victory. And although the Lincoln's Emanicpation Proclamation was declared in 1863, it wasn't until 1866 that the 13th Constitutional Amendment was signed, which officially and legally terminated slavery throughout the US.

The reason why Chicago is so beloved by players is because you people there are such accustomed to losing that the teams can (& regularly do) lose with little repercussion from the fans. Yes, the Cubs' Wrigley Field is probably the most photogenic professional sporting venue (I have been to many stadiums, and Wrigley is TOPS!). But too bad that it has, in all its ivy splendor, been made to host the Major Leagues LEAST productive team.

Actually, perhaps Wrigley, more than anything else, has contributed to the Cubs incompetence. The esthetics of the stadium are so enthralling that it engenders rabid adulation in spite of how dreadful the Cubs are. And Cubs management has used this blind fidelity to Wrigley to excuse itself of the responsibility of consistently fielding a winner.

The ONLY reason I am pulling for the Cubs is because they FINALLY got a winner to manage them. And the superslugging Sammy Sosa is worthy of a WS title. (How can any Black person not root for a Black manager to succeed, no matter what team he leads?) If Dusty Baker and Sosa were not Black, I would care less whether the inept Cubs win. Of course, were Baker, a true winner and one of the Majors' very best managers in decades, not the Cubs manager, we would not be having this discussion, as the Cubs would be in their customary bottom-feeding position in the NL standings.

Well, for you Cynique, 1 good thing may come of the Cubs winning the Series: That will up-the-ante of required competition and success for your favored cross-town rival Sox.

What precipitated this discussion is my amazement at the notion of Chicagoans preferring 1 of its mediocre Baseball teams to the other. But I guess you have to be a Chicagoan to understand what THAT is all about. So you are right: I should relax. And I apologize for belaboring the point.


BTW: After tonite's choke-job, where the Cubs led the game 3-0 into the 7th inning, it appears that not even Dusty Baker can save the Cubs from "the Curse".
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Cynique

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Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 12:02 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Cubs are known as the lovable losers. One problem with Chicago teams is that their owners don't want to spend any money to snare top notch players. And, yes, the poor Cubs were cursed waaay back when by the owner of the lengendary saloon known as Billy Goat's tavern for some imagined slight. If some fools hadn't brought the tavern's pet goat to Wrigley today looking for Dusty Baker, the Cubs would've won. ROTFLOL! Oh well, Chicago still has the 6 NBA championships, and the 1985 team that won the super bowl was one of the best ones to ever compete for that title.
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Cynique

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Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 11:53 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, yes, I forgot to mention that the White Sox also had black manager who was just fired by their black GM. And the Sox slugger-of-choice was black Frank "Big Hurt" Thomas. And, - you should've seen how all of those white, beer-swillin, blue collar Cub fans and their Armani suit-wearin', merlot-sippin counterparts reviled Sammy Sosa when he accidentally used his cork-filled practice bat in an official game.
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Beautifulwaterstar

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Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 10:02 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Awwww, ABM. Now wasn't that sweet, sayin' a lil' heathen such as ma'self had a "salvational" spirit. hehe But you know "I'mmmm just a soulll whose intentions are good.." (;-)) You know what, too? I just realized that ABM was the one that started the thread, not Cynique. LOL She was probably over there wondering why in the WORLD some chic wanted her to think of a song for her! :eek: lol

Dang, I'm hongray danna mug. Anybody cook?
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Chris Hayden

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Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 12:52 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique and ABM:

I feel your pain.
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Cynique

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Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 01:26 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chris:
I'm a die-hard White Sox fan. I'm feeling no pain.
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Chris Hayden

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Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 01:58 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique:

Nothing a little bourbon and soda won't fix, eh?
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Cynique

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Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 02:55 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Actually, the collapse of the Cubs was the only tonic White Sox fans needed.

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