| Author |
Message |
    
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 11:41 am: | 
|
Over the weekend the central committee of the Democratic Party for the City of St. Louis called a meeting of Democratic committeepeople (St. Louis is a one-party state--I know a little of what folks in Russia, China and Iraq put up with--but I digress).
The Mayor of the town, Francis Slay, showed up and said that the party organization ought to line up behind Kerry.
The committeepeople, especially the black ones (here we have Black Democrats and White Democrats and rarely does the twain meet) balked at this--soemthing about democracy, having Kerry or some of his people approach them to put forth a case, other candidates being in the race, things that rarely troubles the local party machine.
The decision was put off--until today.
Said all that to say this--that even as we speak, even between and before the primaries (and even before poor Dick Gephardt has had a proper burial) the professional pols are picking who they want for the candidate--which means that the people that control them are making their decision. Kerry.
Why do I add Do Black Folks Know the Game? A lot of people criticized Al Sharpton for getting in the race. "Well, he can't win," they say. He has stated more than once that his main aim is to see that the agenda of Black America is considered by the Democrats (If people thought Al was a poor candidate to do this, why didn't any of the "better" ones come forward?)--it is too late after the candidate has been selected at the convention--you have a chance to deal and dicker before this, while he is scrambling to assemble the delegates.
For those who say that this is a pipe dream I say that if the race is close and they go into the convention with it still undecided, someone holding just a few delegates may wield enormous power--I believe in 1944 Congressman Dawson from Chicago almost singlehandedly dictated who would be Vice President--with tremendous consequences when the candidate they did decide on, Harry S. Truman, became President after Roosevelt died.
It is also a reason why the Democrats broke up Dawson's district after he left office. |
ABM
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 12:36 pm: |
|
Chris, at this stage in the game, what your Black St. Louisians pols want is really neither here nor there. Because it really should be time-out on the jockeying for patronage.
They should look at the Kerry's history, personally, professionally, in Congress, etc., see whether it jives with what they and their constituency need/want, then either support him or not. It is too late in the game for all the $1,000-handshakes. Because, if we all are not careful, before we know it, it will be November and we will all be soiling our pants while dreading a Bush's re-election.
Of my opinion, because self-defense is and will continue to be the preeminent political issue, Kerry war hero status makes him probably the only Democrat that has a snowball's chance in Hell against Bush (though I wish Gen. Clarke had been to Congress or as a governor). I especially like the fact that Kerry earned medals for fighting the very war (Vietnam) that Bush shirked.
And Kerry is taller, possibly more imposing than Bush. Thus, I hope when they are physically juxtaposed, that to many fence-straddling Americans, Kerry might in person appear more presidential.
And I have had mixed views about Sharpton's involvement in the primary. Yes, he's a very talented speaker and keen thinker. But he hardly speaks for/to the issues of all Black people. Heck! Here is a 50-year-old guy who’s been on the scene since he was a kid yet who have never held ANY elective office.
And now he wants to pretend he can/should be President? I mean, really. Come on, Al!
And his self-glorifying histrionics could muddle and possibly prevent the selection of a viable opponent for Bush. Then, what presumably he and/or most Black foks want/need will be for naught, as we will be made to suffer another insufferable Bush Jr. inaugural.
BTW: I think part of the reason why capable Blacks abstain from vying for the White House is the cost to play in the game is to enormously high. The preliminary estimates suggest that the 2 who face-off in November will have spent a combined 1 Billion smackeroos.
What brothah or sistah can raise that kind of dough?
And when you combine that with racial strife, troubles with security, family, business, etc., it seems too high a price to pay, especially when probably at least half of the majority population wouldn’t even think about voting for you, no matter how qualified you are.
So frankly, it really take a Black person who is fairly self-deluded (ala Sharpton) to even consider running for President. |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 01:14 pm: |
|
ABM:
If the U.S. political system was run as they taught us in 8th grade Civics class, I would agree with you.
It is not. For you to tell Black St. Louis pols that what they want is neither here nor there shows that black folks do not know the game.
Do you think for one minute the Mayor came forth with his proposal because he believes in "good government" or that Kerry is "The best man for the job"? No. He got the word, either from people that pull his strings or from the Kerry organization that he or somebody close to him is going to get something he wants.
Get in the game, man! I ain't talkin' how it ought to be, I'm talkin' how it TIZ. You don't hand over your vote for nothing, elsewise you is played for a chump. One thing that the Black Republicans have right is that blacks have too long voted Democrat blindly and received nothing in return.
Maybe the Democrats are all holding hands and singing Kumbaya where you are. Here it is open warfare, with the white Democrats attacking black officials and voters and neighborhoods and then blithely tripping around at election time asking for our votes because, as one white Democrat put to me "Who else you gonna vote for?"
We ain't got dough but we got votes and they shouldn't be handed away for nothing.
So far, Kerry seems to be Republican Lite. He has supported all Bush's policies down the line. If we blindly go in there and vote for him, when he is there it will be too late to start talking about--"but we voted for you and you owe us". By that time he will be about the business of enriching himself and the cabal that has supported him--which seems to be the main reason why people seek the office of the President these days.
If we are going to have a Republican, let us have a real one and be done with it. |
ABM
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 02:04 pm: |
|
I am eminently familiar with all the backroom dealing that goes on in politics. But I question the cost-benefit of too much of that in light of what the Dems face come this fall. Because you can bet your St. Lewey patooti that the GOP are and will be marching to only ONE tune come November. And whatever they may or may not get from Kerry will likely appear gargantuan when contrasted with what they’ll get from that ol’ roo’in-too’in wrangler ‘Dubuya’.
I don’t know Kerry’s voting record. But I would say that if it is as you seem to suggest, the Black politicians probably shouldn’t support him REGARDLESS of what he promises them. Because you know as well I do that just because candidate Kerry promises those smoes something now, doesn’t mean President Kerry fill honor that promise.
But I believe that ultimately, if you REALLY want to have influence over a winner, you don’t wait until he comes schlepping by with his hand out. You’ve gottah get with the program early on. Because foks are more inclined to remember those who fed them when they were most hungry. |
ssmoothe
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 03:42 pm: |
|
So far, Kerry seems to be Republican Lite.
Yeah I agree with you Chris on that. The whole skull and crossbones thing got me weary. Who is this man, a Republican dressed in Democratic clothing??? huh? huh?
All of sudden he is the man of the hour, predictions, gallup posts etc...but we, WE, ME, don't know a d#$%! about him, and really could care less at this point, except I want George W. out of office. Okay, so what we got to choose from, right now, not one of the candidates stand out for me. I agree, for my vote, and for our vote, they got to come up with something more than a promise, attending church and kissing our babies. |
ABM
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 03:56 pm: |
|
Okay then, Chris and ssmoothe. If Kerry's not The One, then who is? |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 03:59 pm: |
|
They way the media is all lining up behind him and pounding on Dean, makes me feel like the orders have come down from on high (and let's not even go to the Free Press thing--the only people who got Freedom of the Press are those who own one) that Kerry is a man we can do business with--which means he will continue the Bush policies in a "kinder and gentler" manner.
Maybe what the American people need is a good reaming. Four more years of a George Bush unbound, unafraid of being re elected, loosing Dick Cheney and John Ashcroft on the populace to work their God given mojo.
Certainly this game where we are offered "choices" that differ only in the way they talk is gettin old. |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 04:05 pm: |
|
ABM:
Me.
And I promise you that when I get in there I'm going to steal everything that ain't nailed down--but you will all get a cut!
At this point I truthfully don't know--and it is January so we have time to make up our minds--what is the rush?
But the way the "liberal" media is pounding on Dean, and the way the dittoheads stay on his case, makes me begin to think he may be the best of the lot--let Kerry be Vice President.
Let Al stay in until the end to keep them honest. This ain't no coronation. It's a primary. Let them eat each other alive. They ought to give us something for our tax money. |
ABM
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 04:23 pm: |
|
Dean would NEVER be elected. He never was electable. Yes, he’ll cause certain excitable factions within the Democratic Party to have wet dreams. But the more rational majority of us foks know that should that Space Cadet win the nomination, we will be forced to longingly kiss another Presidency goodbye.
And again, I think we should reserve judgement on Kerry until we have reviewed the meat of his voting record. Heck! He’s from Massachusetts: Ted Kennedy Country. So he can’t be TOO conservative.
Hey dude, Bottomline: I don’t want that sock puppet from Crawford, TX anywhere near DC come this time next year!
So whatever it takes is whatever it takes. |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 04:44 pm: |
|
Hold the presses! I agree with ABM. This is a time for pragmatic politics. The goal is to defeat Bush and with the way the American public is leaning, a moderate Democrat has a better chance of demolishing Dubya than a one-issue loose cannon like Dean. The time to put the pressure on Kerry is when he runs for re-election once he is elected. |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 04:51 pm: |
|
ABM and Cynique:
You are being carried away. The New Hampshire primary hasn't been held yet, you don't know Kerry from the man in the moon, and you are already giving up the funk.
Y'all better be glad I ain't advising Kerry. I'd tell him to dog y'all out. Y'all gonna vote for him anyway. He ain't got to give you nothing.
And when he runs for re election what will the argument be. "We can't let a Republican get in there."
Get in the game!
Y'all got to get a grip. Relax. I bet the two of you would be some pitiful poker players.
I can understand ABM losing it. Cynique, you know better. You are from Chicago, where they play hardball politics. Don't you know about Dawson? |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 05:53 pm: |
|
Get real, Chris, your scenario would make a good sequel to the movie, "The Candidate" or something like that, but the fact is Blacks are in their usual position of settling for the lesser of 2 evils: Bush or Kerry.
And, yes, I know about Dawson. He was a stooge for Chicago's Democratic machine, and when the first Mayor Daley got in, Dawson never made a move without his OK. Dawson did control his wards with the strong arm of corrupt patronage system but in his declining years he was regarded as purveyor of plantation politics. Plus, Roosevelt probably would've gotten re-nominated in 1944 without Dawson because he was a war-time president. Or was Truman that much of an enemy to blacks. He did integrate the armed forces. |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 12:44 pm: |
|
Ah, Cynique you have not read my posts. Dawson was not opposing the nomination of Roosevelt. He was opposing the addition on the ticket of his candidate for Vice President, whose name I will have to look up, because of his racial politics.
Thanks to Dawson Truman got on the ticket instead of this other person, who I will get. Now everything you said about him may be right. This is the system. Black folks seem to be fine with it. Ward politics. Corrupt patronage. A machine. Dawson wasn't the only one playing the game. Plenty of white politicians had to play it too. The people of Chicago seem to like it just fine.
Folks who didn't care for Dawson were those who couldn't get anything from him. This is the system everybody seems to like and want. If you don't have money and you don't have votes then you get nothing.
And you don't give away either for nothing.
Here is another reason we are not in the game. We are not paying attention. Sigh.
And again--here you are giving up the funk and it is January. Rev Sharpton was on the radio here in St. Louis this morning. He laid out again his strategy. He stated that there are contracts that are going to be given out for publicity. Positions to be filled. There is a party platform to write. If you go to the convention already committed you have given up any bargaining power. His strategy is to do what these other people are doing all the white Democrats who are not giving up their votes for nothing, but getting what they can out of it.
It might not sound pretty, but in the absense of anybody wanting to change the system, it is the best you got.
I reject the notion that I must choose between 'the lesser or two evils" Evil is evil. I reject the notion that we have to settle for our "usual position". What if Rosa Parks had settled for the "usual position"? Dr. King? Frederick Douglass. I don't have to go on.
One reason we are frustrated is because we are not sitting at the table when the pies are cut up, and you ain't invited to sit down, you have to push your way to the table. You want to give up the game even before the convention.
As Sharpton said, it is too late asking for anything once they get the vote. Kerry is not Jesus. He is a conniving American politician just like all of them and you can't count on him to do the right thing or anything, unless you deal with him by the rules.
I mean, what do Black folks want? They don't seem to want revolution. They want to play the game, but they don't want to play it. Vote for them and hope they do right.
I bet you owed your job at the post office to some politicking somebody did down the line. Ain't nobody gave none of us anything we got out of the goodness of their hearts. This is America, for chrissakes!
Get in the game!
But first, answer me this question: Why to you is Kerry better than Bush?
I'll tell you I am coming down to these issues among others--this lousy war and the erosion of our liberties under this WAr on Terror. Kerry has been for them all the way down the line. If he is going to be for them still, then I'd rather have George Bush back.
If he is not, I am for him. I will wager you that he will not change from his position without some armtwisting. We ain't got 50 million bucks to give him. |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 02:36 pm: |
|
First of all, Chris, I got my job at the Post Office because I took the postal exam and passed it and when my name got to the top of the list, I was called and interviewed and hired. I qualified for all of the promotions I got; no politics.
I favor Kerry over Bush because Kerry was not a draft dodger, he's smarter and more experienced than Dubya and has a better handle on international affairs; he came up through the ranks and has paid his dues. I don't care if he is a ruthless, expedient, manipulative politician. Who isn't? Politics is a dirty business from ward politics on up to the white house. Bush is also too conservative for me when it comes to religion, marriage, abortion rights, gun control, and the death penalty. But even if I wasn't more allied with Kerry on these issues, I prefer him to "Dubya" because I DON'T LIKE GEORGE BUSH. That's the bottom line and you'd be surprised how many people use that as a criteria when voting for someone. |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 03:01 pm: |
|
Cynique:
From what I heard you gotta have hookup in Chicago to sell hotdogs on the sidewalk, but that may be the City and not the town outside where you are from.
You know what I'm talking about. Without black politicians and leaders pressuring the hiring authorities locally and in Washington for years they wouldn't have had any blacks down there--I know we all like to do the "I got the job because I'm the best" routine but without years of work by activists very few of us would have had squat. I suppose you are able to sit in the front of the bus vote and live where you want all due to your own efforts you was in Montgomery in 1955, and in Selma in 1963 and--you see where I'm going --my dear, you are not THAT old.
How soon they forget.
One's reasons are one's own. I can't dispute them nor will I.
To return to the original subject of the thread, suppose between now and November your boy's advisors, as they are no doubt doing now, start whispering in his ear that in order to win he's got to out Bush Bush--ie, adopt all of his positions?
Now what can you do to show him this might possibly be in error?
|
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 03:37 pm: |
|
Until it recently, when it became privatized, the Post Office was an arm of the civil service commission and from day one, black people were always hired there. In fact it was once considered a prestigious job among middle-class blacks. As I have said on previous occasions, the town where I was born and grew up in and now live, has always been integrated. One of its earliest settlers was a black family. The schools and neighborhoods were always integrated and I never sat in the back of a bus in my life. That is my "black" experience and it is obvious how this has impacted on me. I'm not that crazy about Kerry, and, incidentally, I don't think his advisors will tell him to turn into a Bush clone. All he has to do is hammer away on the economy and health care and better schools and more money for the cities, etc. The usual false promises. He doesn't even have to make Iraq a big issue because Bush is going to be promising to have the troops out by next year.
BTW, who would YOU settle for as president?? |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 03:50 pm: |
|
Cynique:
Me |
|
Email This Page