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Scullars
Regular Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 36
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 12:05 am: | 
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Appealing to the male members here. I am totally stumped at this absurdity, and am asking for some insight. The whole thing makes my blood boil.
Four OCU football players attacked a WM/BW couple, verbally abusing the wife, then hitting and knocking out the husband. The husband, a National Guardsman, was trying to enjoy his
last night stateside with his wife before being shipped over to Iraq.
Link to the story is: www.katu.com/stories/72658.html
A follow-up story (http://kpic.com/x30530.xml?ParentPageID=x2649&ContentID=x48061&Layout=kval.xsl&A dGroupID=x30530&NewsSection) confirmed my initial suspicion. Turns out, the attackers all have white girlfriends.
So what the f**k business is it of theirs if a black woman is with a white man, in this case, her husband? Nobody owns anybody, as far as I'm concerned. I have encountered this behavior when I'm out with white acquaintances, but not to this degree.
Again, what is it with this double standard?
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 860
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 10:58 am: |
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Scullars:
What double standard? The same one where a white man kills a black boy cuz he whistled at a white woman?
I think you need to try to ask them what is going on, not us--unless somebody here knows them and was there. |
Scullars
Regular Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 37
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 12:40 pm: |
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Chris, I don't compare the two. Assault is assault, and is wrong no matter the perpetrator. The ones who killed Emmett Till will burn in hell, but don't think the brothers are going to get off with God just because they didn't do murder. Past wrongs are no justification for current wrongs. They knocked the soldier out; had he hit his head wrong, these men might be facing a murder charge.
My question is why can't people just let other people be? These men do not own this woman just because they share a skin color. |
Scullars
Regular Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 39
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 12:53 pm: |
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I realized I didn't answer your question about the double-standard. The one I'm referring to is where Black men can date white women (which I don't have a problem with), but then turn around and harass an IRR couple where the woman is Black. That I don't understand. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 863
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 05:19 pm: |
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Scullars:
Well, none of us were there and we don't know what went down. Just because a white man is with a black woman doesn't mean he might not be racist-Strom Thurmond had a daughter by a black woman and was a stone dyed in the wool racist.-in fact, he may have seen them with the white women and made remarks himself. Now what would you think about that? This guy is saying that these guys resented him being with a black woman--what are they saying? |
Scullars
Regular Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 40
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 08:22 pm: |
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Actually according to the news source, the IRR couple was dancing and the football players came up to the woman and started making derogatory comments about her being with a white man. This couple are married and were having a night out before the husband's deployment to Iraq the next day. What was said b/t the couple and the players has not been reported. The football players have been charged with assault, and the investigators say they may charge them with intimidation, which is Oregon's equivalent to racial animus.
I can't report on whether the husband had any racial animosity. Witnesses say that the couple was dancing; the teammates were the ones who approached and started in on them. According to the reports also, it seems the guys weren't with their girlfriends. The follow-up report that indicates their girlfriends are white was a series of comments from fellow students who were interviewed about the accused.
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Scullars
Regular Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 41
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 08:47 pm: |
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Let me go one step further and explain my concern, which is personal. I take umbrage against anyone who would force their opinions on me because of my life choice. I don't hold with people becoming verbally or physically abusive because they feel that I've stepped outside some boundary they've created in their warped minds. I've personally noted hostilities from Af-Am men when I'm out with a white colleague and there is not anything romantic going on. Luckily, it's mostly dirty looks. Thankfully, I didn't have to experience the abuse that black woman experienced.
Conversely, I also abhor black women who do the same thing by getting in someone's face b/c they don't like seeing a black man with a white woman.
The issue that boggles my brain is that I've heard of several instances (as in this case) where the black male abusers are in an IRR relationship themselves, so I don't understand the reason for the abuse. Is it b/c some black men think they have a proprietory interest in all black women and that black women should not have the right to be with whom they please? That's the crux I'm getting at. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1174
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 09:26 pm: |
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This is a two way street, those who think like you have a right to, and you have a right to hug kiss and marry a white man if you want.
You say past wrongs don't justify present ones. How about present wrongs that we are STILL suffering.
You abhor a black woman who cant stand looking a IR couples, OH Well! To each his/her own. Right
Your likes and dislikes regarding this matter are no more valid than those who choose to remember all of the black young men and women, NOT JUST EMMIT TIL who were slaughtered and tortured for LOOKING or SMILING at a white woman.
So please, feel the way you do and others will feel the way they do.
Contrary to popular belief we have NOT achieved racial equality in this country. Not hardly. |
Scullars
Regular Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 42
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 09:45 pm: |
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Since this is your first post to me, let me respond to your assumptions. I am not in a relationship. The encounters I mentioned were business lunches with colleagues. If a person cannot even go to lunch without incurring this type of behavior, then it is a sad state.
Present wrongs done by anyone of any color is to be condemned. I make no statements about my likes or dislikes, or whether or not they are more valid than anyone else's. I leave room for others to have their opinions and to state them, just as I state mine. Any my opinion is that we need to live and let live.
I said that I abhor black women who get in people's faces (by way of derogatory verbal comments or more). I probably should have said I abhor their actions.
And you will never see me post that this country, or any other place on this earth, has achieved racial equality. My premise on that is hatred is a sin that won't be abolished by mankind, but by a higher power. I don't believe there will ever be full racial equality because human beings are fallible creatures.
Nice to meet you. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1176
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 11:00 pm: |
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This is not my first post to you. I commented on a story you posted as well as your quest for an agent this past summer.
I never said you are presently in an IR relatioship, I merely pointed out that if that's what you like that's your perogative.
A wise man once said those that forget the past(history) are destined to repeat it...
But anyway scullars, this board has explored, hashed and rehashed this subject all summer (2004)
long.I don't really want to explore this any further.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1867
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 11:30 pm: |
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This subject gets so complicated. If you use the argument that the reason a black person should get angry when seeing a black man with a white woman is because black youths were killed by white racists then, by the same token, you should get upset when you see a black woman with a black hip-hop thug because black gang members are committing drive-bys on youthful black members of rival gangs. Where interracial dating is concerned, there's enough blame to go around and black men should shoulder the bulk of it. They choose to date white women, and then some of them have the gall to resent it if a black sista chooses to date a white man. The only thing bigger than the inflated ego of the black man is the fragility of this ego, a fragility fueled by insecurity. BTW, Karen, I agree that there will never be complete racial justice in this world because every group needs another group to hate so they can have someone to blame all of their problems on. |
Scullars
Regular Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 43
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 12:19 am: |
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I didn't mean to kick up any controversy. I just get riled up by injustice perpetrated against blacks as well as perpetrated by blacks. I don't even cut my own relatives any slack on that count (had the privilege of having my home set up for a burglary by my own cousin). I'm just able to empathize with the woman b/c of the few reactions I've received but thankfully I've never gone through what she did and hopefully never will.
I seriously just wanted some male input to help explain this double standard. As for me, I leave a person's choice of mate to that person. I don't feel insulted if I see a black male with a non-black female b/c that's his choice. Self-determination is a gift from God and shouldn't be abridged by any one less than God.
A_womon, I do remember your comments now about my writing. They were encouraging and appreciated.
As for IRR romance, if I ever find true love in this world, no matter what color the person, I will just be grateful for the privilege of being loved and will wish everyone else the same blessing.
Cynique, I believe that racial injustice is a manifestation of man's sins and, by the Christian creed, if man was able to eradicate sin on his (or her) own, then what need for the Christ to die? That's why I believe we'll have racial injustices on both sides for as long as this world turns on its axis. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 1870
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 12:26 am: |
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If you don't mean to kick up a controversy, Scullars, then you're at the wrong place. There's very little sweetness and light here. LOL |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 2140
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 06:33 am: |
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Not to diminish the severity of what allegedly occurred. There will always be idiots amongst us. But their sordid behavior should not be attributed to Black males enmass.
It seems to me that is only an issue worth grappling with if there is some overall increase in incidences of Black males attacking WM/BF couples. Is that the case? Perhaps we should try to establish whether that exist. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 2141
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 06:38 am: |
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...before we make some sweeping assertions about WHAT occurred and WHY. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 865
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 11:37 am: |
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Scullars:
We still haven't ascertained what happened. We have only one side of the story--
I am kind of puzzled over why you would get upset over the supposed "injustice". Surely this man was not the first person who got into a fight because somebody made some unwanted comments to his wife--there have been white men who got into fights with white men because of untoward comments they made to their white wives--was this racial?
What "inustice"? These men are being punished--unlike the untold numbers of white men who pleasured themselves with the spouses and girlfriends of black men without any repurcussions at all over the years.
Could turn out he's just got a chip on his shoulder about being with a black woman and imagined the whole thing--IR couples are often very self conscious--I remember being out with a friend who has a white wife. Every little thing in a restaurant got to be because he was there with a white woman when it wasn't.
What injustice? Did they lynch him? Did they burn him at the stake and castrate him? Did they shave his wife's head because she was out with a white man?
It seems to me white men have had and do have the freedom to be with anybody they want to be--I am highly suspicious of a case where these guys are supposed to have white girlfriends and they would suddenly get so upset because a white man was with a black woman.
On the other hand we have many cases in which white men did the opposite.
In fact I am beginning to suspect the whole thing is bull. |
Scullars
Regular Poster
Username: Scullars
Post Number: 45
Registered: 02-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 01:33 pm: |
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Hey Cynique, thanks for the warning. :-)
Chris, regarding my feelings about the OCU incident, it may have gotten to me b/c of personal experience. I don't negate the evil that whites have done by bringing up this one case. The original focus of my query shouldn't have been so much about this one incident, but this incident in addition to anecdotal ones that I've heard that seems to point to a pattern of confrontation. Hopefully, Abm, there isn't an increasing pattern, but I am wary if and when I'm out with a co-worker or friend about running into such idiots.
As to the question of whether anything racial was said, the articles imply that the exchange between the men and wife were of a racial nature and that charges may include Oregon's equivalent of a hate crime law.
Chris, you bring up the very question I've been inadequately trying to pose when you ask why should these guys who supposedly have white g/fs be upset about a white male with a black woman. I remember a past Oprah show from years ago, when the show dealt with IRRs and Oprah questioned a black male in her audience who said that although he dated IR he also did not like seeing black women with white men. He couldn't explain it; it was more a reactionary feeling. To be fair, I've also heard of some black women in IRR admitting to the same.
Abm, if I gave the impression that I attributed this to every black male, or at least to all black males in IRRs, I did not mean to do that. I meant to qualify my statements with "some black men in IRR".
I guess I was just trying to understand the psychology behind it all. And maybe it is something that can't be explained fully. But I appreciate the honest responses to my question. |
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