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A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 129
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 06:59 am: | 
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Hey All,
For those who are interested Bill will be discussing his remarks that I believe were made at the NAACP Brown V Board of education 50th Anniversary Ceremony. (Is that right,Yukio?) Any way it will give those of us who missed it an opportunity to catch some of what he said and hear how he feels about those remarks now. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 390
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 11:14 am: |
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thanks for the heads up!
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Akaivyleaf
Veteran Poster
Username: Akaivyleaf
Post Number: 66
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 01:21 pm: |
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Thanks for the heads up.... Now to find out what time Tavist comes on in my market. True confessions here... I'm not much of a Tavist fan. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 255
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 02:36 pm: |
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Is he gonna be on the tv show or the radio show? Will they allow call ins? Who is going to bring the tar and feathers? |
Akaivyleaf
Veteran Poster
Username: Akaivyleaf
Post Number: 68
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 02:46 pm: |
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ouch. I looked up the local PBS station on www.pbs.org and find that Tavis Smiley comes on at Midnight in my market. Indeed Mr. Cosby will be on at that time so I would say its the TV show.
I guess I'll have to set my alarm for this one. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 229
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 02:59 pm: |
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Chris,
I doubt that we'11 have any such luck. Tavis is doing this thing primarily to help assuage the resentment that is blooming among many for what 'Big' Bill Cosby said.
Honestly, I expect them to play kissy-face the whole time.
This is what I (cynically) expect to happen:
It will probably start out 1-part dedication to his lengthy entertainment career, with the capper (of course) being a sanctification of The Cosby Show; 1-part an embellished accounting of his academic credentials & family life (with an ode to his departed son Enis but no reference to his drug-addicted daughter) and 1-part his highly-publicized philanthropic efforts with just a tiny ‘smidgen’ of this whole commence speech flap throw in as almost an aside.
I ain't mad at 'em. But face it: This is ALL about one rich/famous Black man doing a 'solid' for another one. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 230
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 03:00 pm: |
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Oh, yeah: Thanks for the heads-up Yukio! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 477
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 03:56 pm: |
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ABM,Chris,& Yukio:
What's wrong with me? Suddenly I just don't feel like defending black people anymore. I see no hope for things getting any better and I'm starting to blame them more and more for their plight. The old rationales just don't cut it for me anymore. Am I losing my blackness? Or did I ever have any? I certainly feel no affinity for white people and I hate right-wing conservatives and religious fndamentalists. So here I am, suspended in the limbo of my ambuity, shrouded with disillusionment, growing more and more detached. Is there a cure for my malaise. Or should I just drop out?
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A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 131
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 04:08 pm: |
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abm whassamatta ya can't read or somethin? you should be thankin me for the head's up. or are you just being funny?
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 231
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 04:40 pm: |
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Uh...sorry, A_womon. I thank YOU for the hit-up. 
Cynique,
I suspect there are MANY who feel as you. I might, in many respects, be one of them. But foks like Cosby who proudly ride up on their high horses often leave stains in their saddle. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 132
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 06:19 pm: |
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I forgive you ABM! You still in there!
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 233
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 09:32 am: |
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Well, I don't know about you all. But I couldn't find the Smiley/Cosby convo'. Did any of you? If so, how'd it go?
A_womon,
If only you knew how DEEP "in there" a brothah can go. [RUFF!] |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 136
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 10:46 am: |
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Yes, I did, it was on PBS 11:30 eastern. It pretty much went like you said it would ABM. Cosby was saying that a white reporter took what he had said a million times in speeches to our community and added to it and also took away from it as well. He stood by many of the things that he said but gave them his own spin.
Tavis was his usual butt kissing self! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 256
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 10:47 am: |
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Cynique:
You're just having a usual Cynique reaction, determinig which way the world is turning and then resolutely setting out in the opposite direction.
I'll find out when the next Klan rally/picnic is being held over in Marion County (the place of my birth) and submit your name as the guest of honor.
That will balance things out okay |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 235
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 11:15 am: |
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Hey!
Check out "Yours Truly" response to the Bill Cosby's commencement speech that was posted in the Opinion section of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution at http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/0504/forum_cosby.html .
Just look for a letter written by "ABM, United States of America". (hehehe!)
(BTW: For some bizarre reason, the AJC converted all of my apostrophes into question marks. @#$%&*!) |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 258
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 11:56 am: |
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Abm:
It wants me to sign in. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 236
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 12:49 pm: |
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Oh, sorry about that. Well, here below is (slightly edited version of) what I wrote:
"No one is going to confuse me with being an apologist for ignorant, lazy Black folks. But Bill Cosby’s recent commencement speech tirade and the procession of "amen's" that if has engendered smacks of an intriguing bit of Classism.
It would be interesting to contrast the zip codes of Cosby’s supporters with those of his critics.
Also, Cosby seems to base much of what he thinks upon how he has allegedly witnessed certain Blacks behave in certain situations. But what he has observed may not wholly represent how others interact under ALL situations. Just because someone uses "ghetto" or "hip/hop" vernacular amongst his "homies" doesn’t mean he cannot quote Shakespeare’s Hamlet at Harvard.
Lastly, I find it noteworthy that Cosby aims his ire at ignorant/hapless Blacks yet CONVENIENTLY omits any discussion about the surrounding socio-economic influences. Could it be he intentionally avoided broadening the discussion for fear of implicating his Art & Entertainment masters (e.g., Viacom, CBS, etc.) who, by the way, have earned Billion$ (via movies, TV, music) perpetuating the very social anomalies that now trouble him so?
-- ABM, United States of America" |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 481
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 02:02 pm: |
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Thanks, but no thanks, Chris. I don't need to attend a Klan meeting to relieve my frustration. I've suddenly realized that all I have to do is remind myself of how you spout out of both sides of your mouth when it comes to the state of black America, and I can choose which of your vacillating opinions is compatible with mine and think wow! I must on to something because Chris is saying what I think...today. LOL |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 482
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 03:14 pm: |
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Abm, I'm sure you eloquently voiced the sentiments of many blacks and - surprise, surprise - a lot of whites. This subject is not so much about race as it is about whether a person is liberal or conservative. But the fact remains that, as Jesse Jackson says, "the only people who can us from us is us." |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 237
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 04:49 pm: |
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Cynique,
Well, I suppose it does in some respects seems that this is about being "liberal or conservative". But, for me, this isn't really about party affiliation. Rather, this is about trying to impartially view the problem and devise fair/viable solutions.
I am as much as anyone an advocate of self-improvement. But I was blessed enough to be "book smart". So, as I went along in my life, there were many people, Black/White, who extended favors me that they did not offer to my peers. I know were I not academically gifted, I easily could have become a very 'different' man (assuming I'd still be alive at all).
Simply: I hope Cosby has at least 'tried' to help cure the problems that he's now whining about.
And I agree it is all about "us". But as long as 'some' of "us" are intent on blame others of "us" without considering how they themselves have helped to cause/maintain many of the sources of the problems, then all of "us" will remain screwed. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 483
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 06:22 pm: |
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Abm, I don't think its about blaming other people for the plight of the less fortunate. It's about expecting them to take responsibility for their lives. A while back, Oprah Winfrey decided she was going to try and help some young single inner-city females and donated 1 million dollars for their schooling and upkeep, etc. At the end of a designated period of time, none of them had followed through on this "leg up"; a couple got pregnant, several dropped out of school and the others just kind of frittered the opportunity away. Bill Cosby or any other do-gooder can't help those who won't help themselves. And I don't forsee the situation getting any better because as I have noted on many occasions: poverty and what it spawns creates industry. Members of the underclass provide employment for members of the middle-class, who through bettering themselves, have qualified for the jobs which are in the business of administering to the impoverished and criminal elements of society. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 242
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 11:12 am: |
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Cynique,
THANKS! Your last portion of your post (starting from "And I don’t foresee...") explains WHY I criticize Cosby. Because HE and others like him are largely the reason why you have you have poverty to begin with.
America is, in spite of its myriad virtues, a huge pyramid scheme. And any decent pyramid requires there be A FEW big winners and A LOT of big losers. So, in order for a Cosby to win big, a myriad other people - many of them who are Black - must lose. I'm not saying Cosby is evil or anything. He's just fortunate to sit on a side of the dinner table that has more food.
So when I witness the 'winner' Cosby now complain about the (alleged) behavior of some of those who 'lose', it, to me, smack of an ironic bit of hypocrisy.
And not everyone who's given a break screws up. 60 Minutes recently ran a story about a rich White man who 20 years ago promised to finance the college educations of all the kids who graduated from a certain elementary school (pardon my not recalling the names/places). Well, the program has been a rousing success. Over the last 20 years, +70% of the kid participants have graduated college and have gone on to become successful doctors, attorneys, law enforcement officers and business owners. In fact, the program has been so successful, that there now are rich foks from around the country tossing money/gifts their way.
So if Oprah's programs failed, maybe it was SHE, not the beneficiaries of her largesse, who loused things up. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 141
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 11:53 am: |
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Cynique,
I would like to read or otherwise learn about the Oprah experiment. Where did you get this info? Was it just watching her show, or is there a place where I can read about it? I would search her website, but if is an abysmal (sp) failure, then I don't think she would have it there.
So are you saying not one girl made it despite Oprah's help? |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 142
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 12:10 pm: |
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Cynique,
BTW I agree with your thoughts that poverty and what it spawns creating industry. I believe it is the main reason that our welfare system remains so flawed, that instead of helping people through hard times, it instead traps them and prevents them from moving ahead. How in the hell does a system help people get ahead when it stops them from improving themselves at every turn? ie: "if you get a job (even one that only pays minimum wage) we will immediately cut your assitance"
Wouldn't the system work better if it allowed these women to work and get aid, teach them how to manage their money, pay their bills on time, and save some money, while teaching them a real skill to get a real job so that they could become independent and live without assitance?
But the powers that be won't allow that because as you say, people getting off welfare permanently and perhaps using their newfound money management skills, to teach their children how to avoid public assitance would eventually decrease the need for this communal albatross(the current welfare system) and those who benefit most from this system, those white collar workers who are a part of the system, taking business trips to Hawaii and things of this nature at the county's expense, and funneling benefits to fake beneficiaries who are really just a front for their bank accounts making them richer, while poor people get poorer. (yes, i worked in the welfare department for a breif time as an intake worker and I heard and saw a lot of this type fraud within the ranks! yet they want to blame those that legitimately need help for squandering government funds!) These theives would be out of work if they made the system work as it should.
Oh well, I feel like Im rambling. But its just one of the things that makes me angry about "the system". |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 490
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 12:15 pm: |
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Well, a-womon, Oprah's experiment took place about about 10 years ago. I remember reading about it in the paper. It was not given a lot of coverage because she seemingly didn't want too much publicity about it. The disappointing results, to my knowledge, did not appear in the newspaper but I remember her talking about it during an interview. And as I recall, these were not teen-agers. They were in their early 20s and had shown some potential which none of them quite reached. It may have very well been due to the fact that, with Oprah in the equation, there was too much pressure on them. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 244
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 12:59 pm: |
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A_womon,
I think I am in love! Preach my beautiful sistahgurl...PREACH! |
Passion
Regular Poster
Username: Passion
Post Number: 41
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 02:31 pm: |
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In love are you, ABM?
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A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 145
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 03:14 pm: |
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAAHAAH!!IACUAFOTG!!!!
Some people never learn and never give up!!! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 392
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 04:12 pm: |
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greetings all:
Summary of Tavis/Cosby:
Tavis was kissy poo, as others expected(abm,a_womon).
Cosby stated that he was mostly talking about the 50%of college drop outs in the inner cities (I don't know if his numbers are correct). Nevertheless, his main point was that these kids need to get to school and it is the parents who need to make sure they not only go to school but that they study and excel. He argued that although their is racism, police brutal et al, we need to take back our communities and do our part and parent our children...
In fact, he said he didn't care what white folks say, since they can do no worse than what they've been doing...
When Tavis asked him about fat albert and the kids speech, Cosby stated that these kids were different, because their parents were responsible and they did what they were told to do...In addition, he argued that kids need to speak standard english so that they can survive in mainstream society...
Finally, he stated that he was pained by what he has seen...
analysis: as cynique stated, he was just stating that folk need to be responsible for their own conditions and circumstances, especially parenting. The 50% of drop out rate is unacceptable and he asserted that if things didn't change then it would increase. It seemed to me that he was also asserting that we are making the job of racism easy by not doing our part...
Now, as far as this recent discussion of the middle classes serving the poor and the state of welfare, I would agree with Cynique's ,A_womon's and others position. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 248
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 04:24 pm: |
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Passion!
("Oh @#$k!")
Oh...Uh! Say Baby! Is that you?
<<clearingthroat>>
Hey, you know...I ain't mean nuthin' by it.
<<shufflingfeet>>
You know I dig A_womon and all ("'Cause she know she got a FOINE ...*").
<<wipingsweat>>
But you know you be my only sugahoneydumplingpie.
<<coveringjewels>>
A_womom,
Hit a brizzle, on his cizzlephizzle and we'izzle will do our dizzle in a hotizzle...ALL NIZZLE!
Aaaiiight? |
Passion
Regular Poster
Username: Passion
Post Number: 42
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 05:50 pm: |
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You're so clever and cute, ABM. I'm not mad.
I just miss you and would like to think that pecial and can't be replaced. Especially by the person who said that I'm a tree that men go up inside and urinate in.
Flirt with Cynique, Sisgal or Justwrite. Leave the gravy train alone.
K, daddy?
**P.S.
I asked Troy to let you review my new book...which I know you'll turn down, because you don't want anyone to know what city you're in.
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A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 146
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 06:12 pm: |
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ABM,
You didn't know you were such a P**SY! I just lost all respect for you! You are such a pawn in other peoples games!!! |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 152
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 10:43 pm: |
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Hey ABM,
I owe you an apology and you got it! Man, I need to get a grip. This board is about expressing yourself, even in silly ways. I have got to learn to ignore stupid stuff. But hey, I never said I didn't have a temper! I'll just try to restrain the tantrums cause they ain't cute coming from anyone.
(Now if I could only think of this stuff BEFORE I fly off the handle.)
So as far as I'm concerned, we cool. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 261
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 11:00 am: |
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Dick Gregory sheds light on Cosby's comments on race
By Sylvester Brown Jr.
Of the Post-Dispatch
Sylvester Brown Jr.
"Cosby told the truth!"
At least that's according to the 100-plus e-mails I received following Tuesday's column.
The majority disagreed with my assessment of Cosby's comments at an event at Howard University commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education decision. Cosby singled out "low-economic people." They stand on street corners using improper English. Their parents aren't parenting, and are spending $500 on tennis shoes instead of "Hooked on Phonics," he said. Cosby criticized protesters who have a problem with police shooting kids for stealing trivial items like pound cakes and Coca-Cola.
I thought the comments invoked stereotypes and were insensitive. Sure, I've seen kids wearing expensive tennis shoes, but many others wear $20 shoes from Payless. And, some kids do steal. But most don't.
I noted that Cosby has done his part to be a positive role model. He contributes generously to black colleges. He and his wife, Camille, recently donated $20 million to Spelman College.
I wrote that Cosby's words came out of frustration and passion but that they were poorly chosen.
Many readers said I was the one choosing the wrong words. How dare I criticize Cosby? Blacks should accept responsibility and stop blaming whites, some said. Others cited examples of blacks they've interviewed, worked with or known who use "bad English." Many believe Cosby's critique was way past due because black leaders encourage mediocrity and are afraid to address "the issues."
But many are addressing the issues. Go to any black church, convenience store, grade school or coin laundry. Ministers, teachers, entrepreneurs and neighbors discourage crime and encourage education. I've yet to attend a church or political meeting where mediocrity was promoted.
Some readers used Cosby's rant to shield their own biases, but others made me wonder if I was too sensitive. Was Cosby's kick-in-the-butt message what today's black leadership needed?
Comedian Dick Gregory introduced Cosby the night the controversial remarks were made. Gregory, a St. Louis native, has been Cosby's friend for decades. By the time Cosby started performing professionally in 1962, Gregory had been playing mixed-race clubs for seven years and had a gig at Chicago's Playboy Club. Demand for his shows slowed after he threw himself in the forefront of the civil rights struggle.
I reached Gregory by phone in Washington.
"There's 10,000 compassionate ways he could have said what he said," Gregory told me.
"Of course there's a problem facing black youth, but there's a problem facing America. There's problems with education, there's problems with drugs, there's problems with television violence. If blacks are on the lowest rung of the social and economic ladder, of course we're going to suffer more."
Gregory said the gala event marking the end of segregated education was no place for Cosby's diatribe against "low-income" blacks.
"If I go to a funeral, it's the wrong place to stand up and shout, 'The deceased owes me money!'"
The fact that so many conservatives and whites have used Cosby's quotes to validate perceptions of inferiority is disturbing, Gregory said.
"Imagine people I don't like embracing my words. I'd hate to have the Klan say, 'Yeah, he's right.'" Gregory also didn't appreciate Cosby's comments about blacks' improper use of English.
"The problem is not how we talk, the problem is how the system still rejects blacks," Gregory argued.
"Colin Powell still can't hail a cab. Condoleezza Rice is called 'Condi,' when Madeleine Albright and Janet Reno were called Madame Secretary and Mrs. Attorney General.
"When I grew up most of us talked pig Latin and played the dozens," Gregory continued. "It didn't stop our success. Dr. King didn't use Ebonics, but that didn't stop a bullet from taking him out."
Perhaps the readers are right. Maybe I'm just too sensitive when I hear comments like Cosby's. But after talking to Gregory, I think I should be.
E-mail: sylvesterbrown@post-dispatch.com
Phone: 314-340-8374
Talk in his forum: STLtoday.com/sbrown
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 499
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 01:45 pm: |
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Black folks need to stop reacting and start acting. They also need to stop worrying about what white folks think and acknowledge that it's time for a change. Dick Gregory is a great phrase maker and good at providing sound bytes, but words are cheap. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 397
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 02:38 am: |
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The problem is that Cosby's comments don't address the real issues. The fact is that most kids can speak english, do not wear expensive shoes, etc...again, if we still have segregated, underfinanced schools then the children and parents are not only the problem. It seems that both need to be addressed. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 258
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 08:09 am: |
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Personal story...
Last night, I discussed this Cosby flap with my wife, sister-in-law (SIL) and her husband over a Mexican dinner {"BUUURRRRP!" Excuse me! Hehe!}. Of course, I was on the 'wrong' end of the rope.
They started out pretty much towing Cosby's rhetorical line (e.g., Black foks aren't taking care of their kids, they don't know 'English', they act like 'heathens', yadda, yadda ...yadda.) I stated much of what I have already said here. I said Cosby has HARDLY been an exemplary man and should account for how he himself (employment/investments) has help to perpetuate the problems he cites. And I said the manner in which Cosby expressed himself was unproductively hostile. They said TUFF. Cosby spoke the truth and sometimes good medicine tastes bad. And Cosby can't be held wholly responsible for how his talents/money have been misused.
I asked why is Ebonics is decried when Whites also speak an assortment of slang, often even in formal/business settings, yet receive little criticism. And I told them that, unlike them, I grew up in "da hood" and can more directly identify with why/how what goes on both within/outside of the inner city affects one's character/behavior (which, though different from that of others, isn't in of itself necessary bad). They said Blacks still need to learn the standard 'English' (which, I wager FEW if any could accurately articulate) because, unlike Whites, we can't afford to risk being misjudged by how we communicate.
And they proceeded to tell ME that if I could make it, others should be able too. I then said - arrogant thy name is ABM - I was academically gifted and was extended favors that were denied others. And I cited instances where I could have easily been consumed by 'da hood' like many of my childhood chums. They said that's a crock. How dare I consider myself to be "superior" to others and that had 'they' been raised as I was and applied themselves, they too could have prevailed.
So, as you can see, at this point, we were pretty much getting nowhere.
Finally, I asked them how could SIL's husband and I help to improve the communities. Well, my SIL happily began to regale us with examples of how her (loving) husband had counseled many troubled/impoverished brothers, how he had taken drug-addicted friends to church, read scriptures them at 3:00 am and introduced one brother to his favorite media personality (SIL's husband is a TV producer). He had even let troubled people live with them room/board-free.
And SIL's husband generous efforts have worked. Most of the guys he has extended a hand to have managed to cure their previous ills, get married and raise children, garner good employment, start businesses and become productive contributors to society.
I said, "WOW", that's GREAT!
Then I ask them a question: "Now, had [my SIL's husband], instead of doing the wonder things you describe, in their hour of strife and need said some things to the effect of, TO QUOTE BILL COSBY, you "knuckleheads", you "lower economic people are not holding up [your] end in this deal", you "People are going crazy." and even inferred that they might deserve to get "...shot in the back of the head over a piece of POUND CAKE..." by a cop, would [my SIL's husband] have been able to HELP these troubled souls to turn their lives around?
Or would they have likely gotten angry, cursed him, and then ran off to embrace and diminish amid their strife and squalor?
They all...hesitated.
"By George I think they've GOT it!"
Now, all 4 us are bright, hardworking, loudmouth, know-it-all, dominant ARIES (Can you believe we aren't killing each other?). So when either of us has "hesitated" in any discussion, the other has effectively won the joust. They then (painfully) said, "Ok. I kinda see what you are saying." Why: Because they all suddenly realize that THEY themselves have LIVED the very kind of life that I argue is necessary to CURE these problems.
Simply: If you want to fix society's problems, don't be someone's 'critic'...be his/her brother/sister.
That don't mean you can rescue everyone. It does take time/energies and maybe even money. And some situations can be risky. But because my SIL/hubby are so faithful to their Christian beliefs, they feel that most people genuinely want to improve their situation and that it is their duty to help others, because GOD has blessed their lives in part so that they can help bless others. And to this point, that has gloriously been proven to be true for them.
See, it's really isn't about what Cosby said: It is not about what the problems are. We ALL know what they are. And we ALL know how to fix them. The issue really is about what WE, YOU AND I, are willing to DO to make things better.
BTW: The guy whom my sister-in-law's husband introduced to his favorite media personal is now himself an actor who has appeared on nationally televised McDonald's commercials. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 503
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 01:52 pm: |
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People have to want to be helped. Some of those who need the most "attention" are the very ones who look upon anybody who has made it as being an oreo or bougie. The burden is not totally on those who have made it. Enough with the guilt trips. At some point a person has to take some responsibility for bettering himself. Suffice to say there is no magic formula to fix the black problem or any other of society's dilemmas. There will always be winners and losers in this game called life. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 401
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 02:22 pm: |
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Nice story. And autobiographical stories are always useful because individuals can identify with them and often place themselves in the story as winners through making the efforts of the characters. Yet, your SIL Hubby's efforts don't address the political and economic and cultural issues such as underfinanced schools, incompetent and uninterested teachers, etc...again, the struggle is on two fronts: the individual and the political. This doesn't mean that his efforts are incorrect, because they are excellent and necessary, even instrumental. Yet, these people who focus on personal responsiblity need to understand its limitations. This is why when bill cosby says to take back the communities, his analysis goes beyond purely parenting children, but parents being present on PTA commitees, present at school boards, etc....recently a friend of a friend on a the school council in Yonkers and explained that in the past the board placed most of its monies in the affluent neighborhood...now, this is a political issue, it seems necessary for our parents to understand the business and politics of educating folk...all of this is available in our brown v. ed...case as especially brown II... |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 261
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 06:31 pm: |
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Yukio,
My story does not provide a panacea for all out societal ills. I agree it captures just part of what's required. And, yes, we all must become more aware of and engaged in the socio-political dealmaking that affects us all. Also, we must build stronger, broader economic bases so that when we make demands of better schools, our politicians/leaders will see GREEN as well as Black.
I love reading the details of local politics (BTW: Who was that who said that ALL politics are 'local?) Please tell me more about the Yonkers situation. How has the school council financing apparatus changed? What spurred the change? And have there been any discernable improvements in the local schools since said changes were instituted?
Cynique,
Baby, you don't fool me one bit. ("Hugs-n-Kisses") |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 267
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 08:16 pm: |
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Passion,
Come on now. You know I can't help getting embroiled in your row with A_womon. What dawg doesn't enjoy witnessing a good catfight.
Thanks for considering my opinions to be worthy of formally reading your book. But I would be concerned that my comments you deem negative could fracture our friendship and my positive commentary might be deemed as biased by others.
A_womon,
Don't sweat it. I am trying to have fun. But if you cannot roll with part of the way I flow, then tell me so...and I'll let you go.
But I must say, part of me was kinda turned on when you call me the 'P-word'. Because, I don't know, there something about being called that by a 'girl' made me want to feel all over myself.
Ladies,
I understand you don't like each other. But can we at least enjoy a group hug, under a waking sun, and gentle breezes, in an open field grass and daffodils, without any clothing, play with Karma Sutra toys...* |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 168
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 08:50 pm: |
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ABM,
IACUFOTG!!!!BIG TIME!! Though I aint down with the group hug with Karma Sutra (whatever that is)
That wuz kinda funny about you wantin to feel all over yaself!
I told ya before, as far as I'm concerned we cool! (though I must admit, I am happy to see ya aint really cyberwhipped* to borrow an invented word from one of my favorite posters!)
Peace! |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 402
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 10:29 pm: |
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ABM: I'll have to get back to you about the changes in Yonkers. Have u read Black Power Inc.? I've read the review and can't say that I find it interesting, but I'll give it a read sometime...
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 269
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 05:55 am: |
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http://aolsvc.peopleconnection.africana.aol.com/columns/izrael/ls20040526cosby.a sp
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 270
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 05:56 am: |
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Yukio,
No, I haven't read BPI. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 171
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 06:59 am: |
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Great article ABM |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 172
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 02:03 pm: |
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Cynique,
You know how it has been said that poorly written books may further degrade those whose reading ablities are already lacking or who may be considered illiterate?
Don't you think that Cosby's remarks that to paraphrase "we get mad when cops shoot kids for stealing pound cake, when it was the kid's fault for stealing the pound cake in the first place?"
Don't you think that Cosby's remarks on that vein have the potential to impact and aggravate an already totally disproportionate number of young blacks who are being beaten up and murdered by cops for misdeeds that are every bit as trivial as Cosby's pound cake example in the same manner that poor literary offerings impacts illiteracy?
Just the other day, my cousin and I were coming back from a cookout in his truck, and this policeman got behind us and followed us all the way into my cousin's apartment complex.
My cousin is not into the drug/thug thing at all, never has been in any trouble and he is 25 years old, but he likes to dress in hip hop fashion. He's tall 6.3 and very well built, just fyi.
Now this cop follows us into my cousins apartment complex, doesn't pull us over or nothing but when we get out of the truck, he jumps out of his police car and starts shing a flashlight into my cousin's truck looking all up in it. Of course my cousin asks the cop what he's doing. The cop tells him to shut up his plates came back as belonging to a pontiac grand prix. And if my cousin keeps talking he can get a ride downtown for challenging his authority. I didn't know that asking a question when you haven't done anything wrong was a crime. And then the cop got back in his car, talked on the radio for a minute, came back and light weight apologized for "the mistake" and drove off. You shoulda seen my cousin's face! He was HOT!
Why should he and guys like him get treated this way just because they are black and drive nice rides?
I think Cosby's remarks will only aggravate this problem and others like it! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 273
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 06:37 pm: |
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A_womon,
Izrael does a fine job. Does he? He captures most of what I have tried to express about Cosby and his commentary.
I think Cosby is a good man. I suspect a lot of what's going on with him has to do with the death of his only son. Being myself a parent, I can imagine how that might shroud your every waking. And for that reason, I pity him.
I just hope that Bill considers the broader factors/influences on the issues he cite...and consider how maybe he himself has in some way been part of the problem. |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 173
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 07:04 pm: |
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ABM,
Yes, but you also did a good job of getting across some of the same points Izrael and Dick Gregory has.
I agree with you that he has become bitter over the loss of his only son, a son that he very much wanted for a long time according to a story I read. I can understand that the way his son died would also make him speak in the manner he did.
But I also want him to understand that his poorly chosen words put my male cousins, and friends at risk even though they are not out there doing any of the things that he spoke of, just because of the position that he is in. They are minding their business trying to have a little fun every now and then, and so these cops should leave them the hell alone! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 512
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 07:55 pm: |
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a-womon, I will never be put in the position of defending white policeman. There's nothing I despise more than a racist cop. We just have to extract the substance of what Bill Cosby said and discard the rest. We also seem to forget that Chris Rock skyrocketed to fame and garnered a huge black following when he did his "I love black folks, but I hate niggas" rountine. He basically said then what Bill Cosby is saying now. |
Sisg
Regular Poster
Username: Sisg
Post Number: 40
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 08:49 pm: |
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Can I jump in here...what Cosby said, specifically the reference you made A_womon to me will not have any effect on these cops, bc they have been doing the same thing to black people, young and old for the last 10 years or more...the driving while black syndrome has been going on, talked about, etc...so I don't think what Cosby says or doesn't say will squash this horridence practice nor elevate it. Cosby may be bitter, and he has a right to express his opinion, which he is entitled to, as we all are. Just bc he is celebrity, doesn't mean he speaks for all Black America, we should know that by now and it ain't nothing he ain't said before, either. Are we too foolish to believe that some of these kids, aren't doing the right thing...or too embarrassed that we too aren't doing a damn thing about it. At least the brother not only supports education but puts up his own money to ensure some of us get the education. Whats the beef here? Cosbys comments were not meant to incite, but motivate. WE are so quick to judge, but ask yourself, what have you done for us lately? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 274
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 09:44 pm: |
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A_womon,
Thanks For the props.
Hey, I have been where your cuz and you has been MANY times. With every new car I have bought, I have had with cops at least one "let's trail the ni&&er" episode. But on the occassion they have questioned me, I usually put on my faux uppity Harvard-educated negro act...just to f-with their minds. When they discover I ain't a poot-but, they quickly scurry away.
And I don't know whether Cosby's words 'worsen' that problem...but they sure as shootin' don't HELP fix it.
Cynique,
I agree that Rock has been very critical of Black people. You could say the same about A LOT of Black humor.
But sometimes it is easier for a baby to swallow 'medicine' if you sweeten it with some 'sugar'.
The difference between Rock and Cosby is that Rock comments are still within the context of humor, which everyone can still laugh at and enjoy, while, as best I can discern, Cosby's were not.
Also, the difference between Rock and Cosby is Rock is also very critical of WHITE people. Rock ain't 'sker'd' of NOBODY. His 'dealing the dope' on both sides of the racial divide authenticates his views with both Blacks and Whites. And even those who may not agree with or enjoys everything he says are compelled to appreciate his fairly evenhanded candor.
Sisg,
And I too hope Cosby words motivate all of us to consider whether/how we can/will help to improve things.
And I don't discount his contributions to HBC. I myself have attended and support HBC's. They do a fine job. Plus, they need the dough. And far be it from me to tell a man how to spend his hardearned cash. But many of the problems Cosby appear to decry start in early childhood. So I hope some of his largesse is geared to helping, supporting and encouraging those who otherwise might never even get an opportunity to matriculate into Spellman and Morehouse. |
Sisg
Regular Poster
Username: Sisg
Post Number: 41
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 09:54 pm: |
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Hear, hear, ABM, very well said. Your candor is always appreciated, as well as your humor, and downwright doggy behavior (smile). |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 175
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 10:38 pm: |
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sisg,
i will definitely get back with you on this tomorrow and break it down to you how a celebrity of Bill Cosby's stature can Definitely affect the happenings in our community by casual remarks.
And I am not taking away from the brothers contributions in other areas at all! I never said that. And you should ask yourself the same question that you put to me. although I have contributed in my way which i will speak on tomorrow but I need to get to bed.
Peace |
Sisg
Regular Poster
Username: Sisg
Post Number: 42
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 10:59 pm: |
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It's cool, A_womon, there is really no need for you to break down anything with regards to Bill Cosby to me, his stature or his remarks. I have followed Bill's career for many years, what he has done and hasn't done, and I base my opinion on that and that alone. My challenge was not just meant for you, but for all of us, myself included. I am not about to go into, what i have done, what contributions I make, nor am I requesting that you make public what you have done. If you have made a difference, been a positive influence in anyone's life, than bravo and carry on.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 275
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 11:45 pm: |
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Sisg,
Your words are always appreciated as well. You are like a "...Quiet storm, blowin', through my life, through my life. You're just like a quiet storm...blowin'...Through my life." |
Passion
Regular Poster
Username: Passion
Post Number: 43
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 12:47 am: |
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I love that whole album by Smokey Robinson.
Especially..."you gotta have the agony..if you want the ecstacy"
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A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 176
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 07:03 am: |
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Sisg,
Yes, "it's cool". It is clear we will not agree on Mr. Cosby and his remarks so I will leave it there. My opinion of his remarks is no less valid than yours because in the end that's all they are is our opinions.
And you're right, Mr. Cosby does have the right to voice his opinion just as I will always have the right to loudly disagree ---his many millions notwithstanding.
Peace |
Sisg
Regular Poster
Username: Sisg
Post Number: 43
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 09:01 am: |
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Kudos, A_womon,
Your objection has been dearly noted and recorded.
Peace |
A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 179
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 05:49 pm: |
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Ok,
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