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Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 380
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 08:54 pm: | 
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What does taking back our communities really mean? This is what Bill Cosby advocated, but How is this done? And in particular, what are some practical things we can do on a daily basis and some longer but still short goals, like renovating the community center, redirecting our youth from prisons to educational programs, etc...? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 251
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 11:41 am: |
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Yukio:
They ain't our communities. We do not have power over them. Larger entities control them. Most of the communities where the problems are worst have the fewest numbers of people who own their own property--
Even where blacks own their own property, in how many of them is all political, financial and govermental power in black hands? Across the river from me is East St. Louis Illinois. Town 90% plus black. Black mayor, police chief, councilmen, etc. Biggest businesses still white owned. Financial and political power in the hands of white county officials in Belleville.
In St. Louis county several all black towns. All under the thumb of powerful white county and state politicians.
Everything you have suggested is good (renovating the center--redirecting the youth --and I would not discourage anyone from doing them if it make them feel good, but they are treating symptoms, not the disease. They are just putting a bandaid on the problem.
What a person can do? Make sure his family, his friends, his home and loved ones are cared for. He has a lot more power there than trying to help some kids who he sees a few hours a day and who have to go back out into this environment that is leading a lot of them wrong--and when you poo poo that idea of environment, think about growing up in a family where everybody has been to the penitentiary but you. You begin to feel like an oddball--seriously. I know of such a case.
Cosby, bless his heart, for all his education and money, still had a daughter get hooked on drugs and had a son gunned down in the street--could he have done something about that?
I don't know, but he could have done a lot more good than he could have when he making an ass of himself in D.C. the other day. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 382
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 12:09 pm: |
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if that is the case, then we never had communities...interesting comments.
Hmmm...you're going the focus on people route, which I agree with. But also, shouldn't we teach our children, relatives, extended family and kin their rights as citizens...participation in politics and general community issues. If you speak to Africans and folk from the Caribbean, they know and understand their political landscape...if not just talking about who the president is, but whose in the city council...basic things we learn in government 101..or civics in h.s...isn't this also the lesson of the civil rights movement?
what about organizations like www.truthispower.com Isn't this part of our legacy thats worth continuing? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 253
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 01:49 pm: |
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Yukio:
I think we should teach them how all that really works in practice--I think they are taught how it supposed to work in many ways.
Most people I know understand their political landscape only too well. One reason they may not be passionate about it, around here at least, is that they have been turned off, disappointed and misused so many times.
I think the truthispower site means well. About the content within--well, African Americans voted in unprecedented numbers in 2000 and you saw what happened. When you discuss not voting, they often say they don't have anybody to vote FOR ( a thread we examined above)--in a system where the candidates are virtually handpicked by the party apparatus and the big money boys, it makes mockery of the idea that anybody can run for office.
I would like to see a more parliamentary system here, with a number of parties. I am not going to hold my breath. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 473
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 02:20 pm: |
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Somebody needs to break the news to Cosby that you can't go home again. He yearns for the good ol idyllic days when people could leave their doors unlocked and could sit in the park on hot summer nights and any parent in a neighborhood could discipline a child who acted up. Maybe legalizing drugs and perfecting a reversible vaccination that would immunize girls against pregnancy would provide us with a brave new world where the neighborhoods could be taken back. But it ain't gonna happen. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 383
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 02:45 pm: |
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hmmm...well, like u and chris, I do think we need to restabilize our families, but I can't get wit the immunization thing...
ChrisHayden: Damn, i don't disagree, but we still need to vote...also, i do think we need to learn the system..grant writing, non-profits, etc...how city agencies work, ...there is work to be done...A few weeks ago, I saw Amiri Baraka speak and he made the same point about a parliamentary system.... |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 226
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 10:09 am: |
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I think to answer the question of "how" to reclaim our communities we must first create a very compelling reasons for 'why' we should even bother to try. Because, as what has already been asserted/inferred ad naseum, there are a myriad reasons why we should avoid the trouble. And until there are some serious, concrete and viable benefits for formulating and enforcing more communal fidelity among Blacks, our communities will continue to be tumultuously fractured. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 386
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 11:53 am: |
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abm: Ok. I don't quite understand what you're saying, here. So, here are some questions for clarification. The first statement asks "why"? Now, the second is saying that we should avoid the "how" or seeking to improve conditions in the community? But then the third statement seems to suggest that we should not avoid addressing the "how," since until we do so, "our communities will continue to be tumultuously fractured."
I think i just went through a Matrix Reloaded experience...lol!
I have a few ideas...but at any rate, I think folk are impatient and tired of dealing with these issues of poverty as it concerns black folk. It is forgotten, it seems, that cultural change takes a long azz time...but of course we have been struggling for 400 yrs. Yet, it doesn't seem like we are quite culturally conscious to such a point where we actually see ourselves as part of a larger black community. Of course, I feel economics and politics are central, but I do not deny the importance of family...
Let me briefly share some general personal experiences. My siblings are not formally "educated." I am. As I see how them raise their children(actually young adults), I can see how i would have done some things differently. Now, I can say this because I've had different experiences that have afforded me the chance to see varied routes, some better some not so.
Also, although i am "educated." My colleagues who have a much longer history of college graduates were much more equipped than I. My point is that in this one family we have the socalled uneducated and educated, but the latter is still not quite comparable to those who have for generations have attended college. The thread that holds all this together, is both formal education but more importantly a general knowledge of how the world works...wealth building and it is usually those with generations of college graduates that know how to build wealth.
If I can use this short, short caveat as a model, I think it represents the state of black america. We have a poor black community and a middle class. Besides, the familial concerns, they don't have many resources either within the community nor the "know how" to transmit to their children(my siblings). Now, the middle class has a good salary but little wealth(myself, though i wouldn't exactly fit this neat category). This middle-class does not know how to build wealth, because the money is new and they are too impressed by themselves (I could be being biased, here) and they confuse salary with wealth. Their children will attend these middle-class schools, but since the parents are new to the game and they confuse the community they live in and the well financed school with their attend with advancement, that they don't equip their children with the necessary tools to really be competitive with their white middle-class colleages.
If we can consider our life as africans then we should remember that family history, work experiences, and how to life were also transmitted to our children and to the community in general...now, this is being done in the church to some degrees, but this is how i see we can focus on the people, as my friend cynique suggests...of course, this doesn't change the need and challenge to demands better facilies, more books and computers, health service agencies, etc...in our communities. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 387
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 11:57 am: |
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as i reread my last post, i have to laugh at the incoherence...this is why when i described myself as educated I did so in quotes...lol!
please feel free to ask for clarification... |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 228
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 02:56 pm: |
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Yukio,
As is often the case, you have unnecessarily confused what I say.
I am not suggesting that we "avoid" anything per se. What I said is the "why" must precede the "how". Or simply: If there are no compelling answers to "why" our communities should be fixed, the "how" likely won’t...‘fly’.
Yukio, there are countless reasons why one might avoid trying to fix our communities:
1) They might find to be unworthy of their time.
2) They fear risking their property/lives.
3) They are too busy pursing their own business/career/familial/entertainment interests.
4) They’ve tried to help before and have had bad experiences.
5) They feel ‘those’ people don’t WANT to improve their situation.
6) They don’t like interacting with people who are less affluent/educated than them.
7) They have a biased, may be even racist view of Black people.
So, I say, weighed against those and many other possible reasons, "why" would someone - especially if they live fairly comfortable, even affluent lifestyles - trouble themselves?
"Why" should we bother to fix our communities? What benefit is it to all of us, especially those of us who 1) doubt doing such is even possible, 2) think the cost of achieving such is too high and/or 3) prefer that our communities and our society remain just as they presently are.
I think posts made by Chris and Cynique support what I am saying.
What appears to be implicit in the subject you propose is the presumption that many or most will and should prefer other than what exist. But that might not represent what many think/feel/want. And if the majority of those who have the resources/talents to effect the change(s) that you desire are not themselves convinced that such change is possible/warranted, that it is worthy of efforting, then the horse race may be effectively lost before the gates are even open.
I am glad you mentioned your differing views/experiences from those of your peers, siblings, etc. Because that is indeed a microcosms of the problem.
Like you, I have more formal education than do my siblings. For that, and other reasons, we live different lifestyles, have different values, beliefs, goals. And we were raised by the same woman, share the same kin, ate the same food, attended the same churches, etc.
Well, project those and many other differences among COUNTLESS strangers, many of whom have value systems that are wholly different from, perhaps even antithetical to your own, then you may begin to grasp the gravity of what it is you purport to do achieve.
I believe if our communities are in tatters it is in large part because many of our more resourceful/talented Black people harbor few if any reasons for them to be otherwise. So, unless you can change that mindset, it is unlikely you will engender/sustain viable solutions. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 389
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 06:26 pm: |
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here we go again......You seem to like to start conflict where there is none. SO let me say that you win.
I did not understand, so I asked questions to circumvent confusion. Confusion would assume I made conclusions based upon what you wrote, and I did not...so your "as often the case" is not the case.
Also, the thread was inspired by Cosby's speech where he stated We need to take back the community.
Chris and cynique are understandable, though I'm not sure if your comments exactly charterize them( One could argue that CH's poetry is political, that he is a cultural intellectual...). It would be nice for more of the socalled "more respourceful/talented black people" to join board, but there are other talented and resourceful black people helping as well. Progress through reform is always slow...
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A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 126
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 07:05 pm: |
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Yukio,ABM
Yall better not get into a gin!! If you can't agree then agree to disagree!! I has spoken!!!! |
Desire1962
First Time Poster
Username: Desire1962
Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 11:15 am: |
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What Cosby said is true and the truth hurts. Why are people all over him? If you look at our people as a whole, we are in serious trouble.
I stumbled across a white supremacist web-site, and it was amazing what they think of us and our behavior.
The most far reaching and lasting effect would be for us to get OURSELVES and our own households in order. Community programs should be the second line of defense, not the first.
Is there any one from the Charlotte area? I'm looking to get info on the city.
Desire1962@yahoo.com |
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