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Bodybutter
First Time Poster
Username: Bodybutter
Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 10:36 am: | 
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Black writing comes from sociological, political, ideological and cultural situations. can this be fully appreciated or understood by a white reader? Any thoughts??? |
Kc_trudiva
Regular Poster
Username: Kc_trudiva
Post Number: 28
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 11:03 am: |
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of course it can. that statement is almost comparble to asking if Black people can fully appreciate something written by a White author. it almost as if you're suggesting that Black writers use a different language (aside from a Fruedian slip of ebonics). of course we (Blacks) may analyze things on a different level than our counterparts but i don't believe that would make them less appreciative as readers. jmho |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 156
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 11:08 am: |
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It can, but it would take work on behalf of the white reader a suspension of expectations. If we can do it, they can too.
For instance, I was watching Sunset Boulevard the other day. I like the movie. There ain't a black person in it. Same thing with Amadeus. Not only are there no blacks in it, it takes place in 18th Century Vienna. I still like it. The human dilemmas in the movies transcend race.
I think that if the white reader can see where the themes in black literature are universal, then he or she can enjoy it. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 198
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 12:39 pm: |
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no!
I wouldn't even assume that black people understand black fiction "better" than whites, since one would have to assume that black folk have a common essential experience.
I do think, however, that there is a heterogenous experience within this broader common black experience. Consequently, generational, geographical, cultural, and national, gender differences affect the interpretation of fiction, history, etc...
At the same time, I would slightly disagree with Kc_trudiva, using ChrisHayden's points.
I think white folk have to work to understand our culture. If we are too reread Hughe's Ways of WHite FOlk, it is clear that black folk understand white folk better than the understand themselves, since we have to learn their culture, values, etc...in order to get anywhere is this world(Caveat, this may not apply to younger folk who are too young to know that their is a difference between african american and the broader anglo-american culture...this also depends on geography and class, etc...). I think that we have to learn their culture very early, while, unless they live amongst us, they won't have to do it until they take a class in Afro-Amer. lit, africa american hist....
Finally, while we all speak english, the vernacular is different, and I'm not talking about ebonics. Our idiom is different, motifs, symbols, etc...although, ChrisHayden, had said they are universal...the white person who have to learn to attach particular meaning to the word, symbol, etc....
Consider my two points: black not necessarily understanding black fiction(really cultural idioms) and white having to work harder because I motifs, etc... are different.
What is the cultural significance of blowing up 4 little black girls in the church in 1964?
If we were to ask different blacks of different generations, you'd get very different answers...this is especially the case for different black ethnicities and nationalities within the black community and even regions within the US(caribbean, african, Northern african americans). |
Kc_trudiva
Regular Poster
Username: Kc_trudiva
Post Number: 32
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 01:51 pm: |
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yukio: i never suggested that White people would fully understand what a Black person writes. i said that because it's written by a Black person would not make it less appreciative. however, i agree with your points about understanding our idiom, motifs, etc. but again that does not make it less appreciative. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 199
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 02:10 pm: |
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Kc_trudiva: I understand your points and agree, which is why i said i would have to "slightly disagree,"...perhaps disagree is too strong. I meant to qualify your points... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 292
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 03:44 pm: |
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Having never experienced being black, a white person is obviously relegated to being more sympathetic than empathetic. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 204
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 10:18 pm: |
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cynique...what about caribbeans, africans, etc...we don't necessarily have the same experience as other folk of african descent, of course...there are commonalities and experiences we share...also, what about these younger kids who have integrated with white kids, their socalled "black" experience is quite different other folk of other generations, even folk in different regions and socio-economic sectors...consider Chris Rock's joke that blacks' experience during the 60s was white people being "nice" in comparision to blacks' experiences in the 30s, 40s and 50s |
Kc_trudiva
Regular Poster
Username: Kc_trudiva
Post Number: 35
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 07:11 am: |
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cynique,
i don't know about that statement: "a white person is obviously relegated to being more sympathetic than empathic." just in everyday life i don't sense a high level of sympathy from White people but you're insinuating that a book will make them feel that way? please correct me if i'm misconstruing what you're saying. |
Abm
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 93
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 11:38 am: |
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Differences in race, geography, epoch, idiom and/or lifestyle are not the chief barriers to greater White consumption of AA literature. The biggest reason why Whites avoid reading African American literature is because AA writing often signals what is worst about being White.
Much of the very best AA literature is largely (if not entirely) polemical of the White power structure. Therefore, for a White person to appreciate many AA books, they must be willing to tolerate and understand some unflattering opinions about themselves and a society/culture that they have helped created/maintained.
For example, how many White women can endure continually hearing/reading stories written by/for Black women that complain about how the glorification of Caucasian female has been used to belittle/degrade non-White women worldwide?
Most people, White/Black/Other, are not mature enuff to bear such criticism.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 296
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 12:14 pm: |
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I agree Abm, and in response to Kc-trudiva, I was speaking about white people who would take it upon themselves to voluntarily read a black book. The everyday white person doesn't do this, so the ones who do do this, are ones who have an interest in black people although I think the way they'd identify with the black characters would be different.
Yukio, the question specified "African-American" literature. Admittedly I was generalizing. I guess we can all gain some perspective if we ask ourselves whether we react to a book about white people differently than we do to one about us. |
Abm
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 100
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 12:21 pm: |
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WOW! More agreement between myself and Cynique. Surely I must have ascended to Valhalla! |
Akaivyleaf
Regular Poster
Username: Akaivyleaf
Post Number: 48
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 02:07 pm: |
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Would a white reader want to understand AA literature? I think we all- regardless of race, culture, creed - read for different reasons. Depending on the book we read for entertainment and as ABM mentioned, it wouldn't be entertaining for a white woman read how a black woman detests having to cook for her, clean up after her and her children, fend off her husband and then go home and take care of her own family.
We read for understanding and growth. Its not flattering to read Condolezza Rice's autobiography if you're a white woman and see where priviledge can take you inspite of growing up in Birmingham, Alabama as a black girl educated in a completely black school system. How can a white person relate?
As mentioned by Yokio, Black people who have been educated in school systems in this country have learned from a very early age how to adapt and function in white society so we have a unique perspective of understanding white literature as well as our own. We were forced to learn it, maybe not understand it from the authors perspective but we can discuss it with the best of them. We experienced one thing out of the home and another in the home. Just as the US is increasingly become more than a two race nation I look around at hispanic and asian children. They go to school, they learn proper English from the English Teacher, Spanglish and Ebonics on the playground and cafeteria and come home and speak Spanish exclusively. Children today are becoming multicultural and so their reading tastes will vary as well. They will understand more of it. (I digress for just a minute. I went to get my nails done in an asian nail shop, Their children translated what the customer wanted done (and don't think for a minute they weren't translating other snippets of conversation) to their parents. What a way to become bilinqual.)
I personally have almost emersed myself to the point of drowning in AA literature. I can swim though. There wasn't enough of it growing up so I'm getting my endless fill of it now. I had an emense library of books at home. I read anything in print and I read the greats Ellison, Hurston, Wright, Malcom X, Martin Luther King in school right along with Dickenson, Bradbury, Shakespeare, King, Mitchell, Kafka, Twain but it wasn't until I could make a choice, that my preference and reading tastes were truly defined. I now have little desire to read books authored by Caucasions I get what I need from my people. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 206
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 02:12 pm: |
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ABM: hmmm...I can't say that I agree. I would agree if we were talking about some of the older fiction, but today's "writers," for the most part, have no critique of white society. If there is a critique, it is usually an internal critique of other blacks.
Cynique: the question was "Black writing comes from sociological, political, ideological and cultural situations. can this be fully appreciated or understood by a white reader? Any thoughts???"...the term or cultural identity "african american" is no where to be found in this question. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 104
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 02:38 pm: |
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I partly agree, Yukio. Today's AA writer is less critical of Whites. And I think that may broaden the consumer base for current/future AA books.
But AA writing still holds before Whites a mirror that few of them can stand peering into. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 303
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 03:02 pm: |
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You're right, about the "African-American" reference, Yukio. And you know what? I am not going to make any more definitive statements on this subject because I can't speak for all of these other races. Good literature and well-documented non fiction should be respected and comprehended by all races. Mainstream pop-lit is probably more appreciated by its target audience... I guess. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 208
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 04:43 pm: |
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ABM: I don't know if it broadens the consumer base to whites and other groups. Perhaps, the black consumer base, particulary those interested in pop. fiction, and recently sci-fi...there seems to be more black sci-fi writers...not sure.
Yes, I agree our best literature usually "holds before Whites a mirror that few of them can stand peering into." Erasure, for example, was not only a critique of recent black fiction, but also the white literary establishment that often helps to canonize problematic black fiction.
Cynique: For clarification, when you say "races" are talkin about whites and asians or what i would call other black nationalities and ethnic groups such as caribbeans, latin americans, and africans?
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 308
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 01:34 pm: |
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I mean all races and their nationality sub-divisions, Yukio. I am no more qualified to speak for a Haitian than for an Italian. That's why I'm backing off this subject. I get into too much trouble trying to second guess what other people think. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 209
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 02:15 pm: |
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gotcha...anotha question, Are u talkin about interpersonal trouble with friends, family, etc...or throught exchanges..., such aalbc? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 113
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 02:31 pm: |
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Cynique,
I think you are trapped in one of those infamous Yukio 'Vulcan' mindtraps. All you can do now is click your heels 3X's and say "I wish I was home. I wish I was home. I wish I was home." |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 313
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 02:36 pm: |
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Mostly on the board, Yukio. Because a lot of my reponses are impulsive.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 315
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 02:46 pm: |
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Abm, Yukio is now your fellow member in the platinum club, so cut him some slack. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 115
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 03:12 pm: |
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Cynique,
I grew up in 'da hood'. Where I come from, no matter how 'smart' you are, you've got to know when and how to 'fight'. |
Yukio
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 211
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 03:54 pm: |
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cynique:
Gotcha...following your impulse is good, sometimes... |
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