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Blackbooks
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Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 12:20 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bestblackbooks.com(The definitive bestseller list for Black books) has just released the top 100 books for July. However, there are not 100 books on the list. Instead, there are 150 books!

The landscape of Black books is too large to only showcase 100 books, so we've calculated 50 extra titles.

The best list. The biggest list. The definitive list.

BestBlackBooks.com Staff
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Jmho
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Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 01:14 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Blackbooks wrote:
Bestblackbooks.com(The definitive bestseller list for Black books) has just released the top 100 books for July. However, there are not 100 books on the list. Instead, there are 150 books!

I have a few questions. Should this be the top 150 Black books for June? Are you predicting which books will be the top Black books for July? If so, based on what? Do you have a crystal ball? :-)
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Akaivyleaf
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Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 07:57 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A Few questions for you: 1. What is the significance to the BBB Point Value? 2. How is it determined? 3. Numbers 145 and 148 are the same book on your top 100 list.

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Chrishayden
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Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 11:37 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hahahaha! I love it, Jmho!

"We have a top 100 books list for July!...but instead there are 150 books!"

Don't have these people doing your taxes!
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Blackbooks
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Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 12:14 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Akaivyleaf & Jmho:

First let me thank both of you for visiting the site. As we continue to grow and create more lists for the best-selling books, visitor feedback is a priceless commodity to us.

To answer your questions:

1. Maybe we should call the list best books for June in that the data compilation was done using June data sources. However, we consider it the July list the way a magazine might publish a July issue yet it hits the stands near the end of June. If, visitors to the site(such as yourself) prefer that our list be categorized by the previous month, we will be happy to make that change. NOTE: We're working on that crystal ball. Anything to make our list the absolute best, we'll pursue.

2. The significance of our BBB value. This is a great question and so glad you asked. The BBB value is yet another feature of the BBB list which sets us apart from other lists. This value shows exactly how well a book performed at the time of our data compilation. It's very much like a score judges would award to an Olympic athlete. In our opinion, there is a significance in a runner who finished first place by five seconds as opposed to one who finished first by five minutes. Our inaugural list gave On The Down Low a ranking of 1.19 which is the highest to date yet. You'll note that book number 150 has a BBB ranking of .0009. This shows the huge performance difference between 150 and number 1. By our standards, they are both bestsellers, yet with the BBB value, readers may ascertain to what degree a bestseller has performed in terms of sales.

Another great resource of the BBB value is that it allows us to track a book's progress over time which will be invaluable to our data at year's end when we present the best-selling books of 2004. Using the BBB value, we will be able to chart, for readers, a book's yearlong history, very much the way stocks are tracked. This may seem like too much information, but we believe in order for a book to have a future, it must have a history. Furthermore, someone must document it.

3. How the BBB is calculated. The BBB is a result of our proprietary formula. For obvious reasons we cannot reveal it as we are trying to be the definitive list for Black books. However we can let you know that we use nine different sales data sources . Each of those nine have a different weight on each title. For instance source 1 might weigh 200 points while source 9 might weigh 50 points. The weights have been determined based on the source's location, amount of sales, access to the public, other significant and practical variables.

If you're familiar with college football, they have what's known as the BCS ranking. That model is similar to ours.
We'd like to think that the accuracy of our list is determined simply by the results. If you notice, the list contains every type of Black book on the market. Our list has a Pulitzer next to urban pulp fiction. There are books by writers who are no longer living. The list has classics and fads. We don't assign these positions. We simply plug in the numbers and whatever rank the computer gives, we post them on the site.

The BestBlackBooks.com list, in our opinion, is an extremely accurate snapshot of the entire landscape of Black books, which is our number one goal. Because we are not one type of book nor are we a category lumped together labeled 'other'. Instead, like Maya Angelou said, "..We are a vast ocean leaping and wide..." That ocean is too big for a list of ten books or twenty books. Maybe even 150 is not large enough. But at BestBlackBooks.com, we think it's the best thing going.

Thanks again for your concerns. Contact us anytime with feedback, corrections you feel the list may need, or any other item that will help us serve readers better.

Read On,


Jasmine Searles,
jsearles@bestblackbooks.com
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Thumper
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Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 09:52 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello All,

Jasmine: How are you? Thanks for visiting the discussion board. I do have a question, why are you covering up your nine sources under a cloud of mystery? How do we know these nine sources covers the whole spectrum that you say makes your list the "definitive" list? Besides that, your whole point systems reminds me of the electoral college that is used during our presidential elections, where one vote in California carries more weight than a vote in Rhode Island or Wyoming. While I applaud what you're doing, I can't help but to be skeptical about your compilation method.
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Cynique
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Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 11:26 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

List, lists, lists. 'Think I'll compile a list of the best lists.
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Blackbooks
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Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 11:47 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Thumper,

Thanks for you inquiry and your candor. I hope people are not getting the impression that our data sources are mysterious or fictitious. The reason we don't reveal them is because our data sources are available to the public and if we revealed how they are used, anyone could create a list like ours. If this were to happen, we would essentially be giving away our 11 herbs and spices.

I must point out again, that we feel the proof of our hard work and our integrity is in the final product. If readers were to take a glance at the other bestseller lists which report Black books, they would find several things to compare with our list.

1. Other lists do not have the quantity of books we showcase.
2. Other lists do not have the diversity of titles that BBB incorporates into our database and computes the sales data for final results.
3. Others lists are published monthly where the BBB list is published weekly with a Top 100 list(or more) published once per month.

If the majority of the visitors to our site continue to express interest in our propriety data sources, then we will certainly consider making them available. Yet at this time, our feedback from readers has been positive and many are glad that we exist since there is not another list like ours.

As you are a respected member of the book community, I understand your concern. But our philosophy is that the list makes sense. And if the list makes sense, then people will appreciate whatever sources we use to compile data for the benefit of the readers.

I will however let you know(since there may be concern) the data we analyze takes into account, books purchased over the internet, books purchased at chain bookstores, books purchased at independent Black bookstores and books purchased from street vendors.

While other lists may publish their sources, we feel this introduces noise(or inaccuracy) into the data. If we published our sources, not only would it be easy for someone to copy our model, but it would also be easy for titles to be strategically funneled into those sources. As our model stands, if a title makes a significant impact at the various places where Black books are purchased, our radar will detect the title and ultimately it will be showcased.

Thanks again for your feedback. It is certainly appreciated. I hope you agree, Thumper, that after taking a good look at the list, it makes sense.

Also, I don't mind you being skeptical at all. There's alot at risk here. The BBB name is being built on accuracy and fair reporting. There's nothing wrong with being skeptical about our list or the other published bestseller lists. After all, it's up to the readers to decide which list(s) they will subscribe to.
Read On,

Jasmine Searles
jsearles@bestblackbooks.com


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Tee
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Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 08:45 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jasmine, though I don't know all the computational methods and things of that nature, I love the concept of the list, though I will admit Top 100 is a whole lotta books. I try to scan the list, but can't really see myself reading to see what's on the entire list every week.

And as someone else brought up, why call it Top 100 if you're going to have 150 (or more) books at any given time? Are some of those books ties?

In RAWSISTAZ, we once had a best-sellers list, but it's solely based on what our members are reading and considering to be best-sellers, in addition, there's a list based on the number of hits to books linked on our site (more accuratey called Top Interest List).

The work involved in keeping up with these lists is tremendous, so again, I'd like to compliment you on the vision for the BBB list.

Kudos.

P.S. Think you can come up with a formula for figuring out how much more space I can utilize in my home for bookshelves? I'm afraid I'm running out of not only bookshelves, but space too. :-(

-Tee C. Royal
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Akaivyleaf
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Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 08:53 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I tend to agree with Thumper and while I'm not necessarily asking for your sources, I am more interested in the rating. Is it possible for a book to get a 1.0 which I could then, in my analytical brain associate to be a "perfect" score? Or could I at least get the list to total to a 100%? When something is quantified or qualified with a number, the sum of those parts should equate to something reasonable. I think that was the original intent of my post.

If you take 9 sources(whatever they may be), again my mind automatically assumes that each of these sources has a sum total of 100% so therefore when you're scoring a book against these 9 criterion, the possibility of 100% or 1.0 is apparant.

Nevermind...while writing this I figured it out. Each book does have the possibility of attaining a 1. Based on sales, but this just hasn't happened for any books on your list. The question now becomes, are the scores cummulative over the weeks? So at some point a book can get a 1? The more they sell, and the more they achieve against your 9 barometers? Am I right?

and as an aside...street vendors keep accurate sales records? Scary in that some of the ones here in Atlanta, can't even count you back correct change.
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Tee
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Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 09:23 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There are street vendors in Atlanta?

:::thinking:::

Not that I could find them if they were with my "getting lost everytime I leave Gwinnett County" self.

-Tee
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Brian_egeston
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Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 09:36 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Street vendors that sell books in Atlanta?

Where they at? Where they is? I mean where are they? Sorry, Mr. Cosby.

I know about the 50% man downtown the sells stolen black books, but I don't know about street vendors that sell books.

Brian
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Akaivyleaf
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Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 09:41 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The 50% man has an outlet on peachtree street proper on the sidewalk in front of Woodruff Park. Sometimes he moves closer to where the old Macy's was. Of course he's running from the law, so when Atlanta's Finest appear he moves it along.

Aren't those street vendors that are across from South Dekalb Mall? They have books and purses and other junk.
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Blackbooks
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Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 10:19 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Akaivyleaf & Tee,

Thanks for continuing this dialogue. This feedback is crucial. And thank you Tee for your encouraging words.

Akaivyleaf, it is indeed possible for a book to get a 1 on our list. A book may even get a 2 or 3, but that would be an extremely rare case. To give you an analytical example. On The Down Low, to this point has been the highest ranked book to date. And we believe, after computing the numbers, is that the book is being purchased at several different places. Over the internet, independent bookstores, Black bookstores. Let's take a look at The Known World. Currently, it has the highest ranking on the TOP 100/150. Logic would indicate that a book which was not long ago awarded the Pulitzer and received national media coverage would rank high on our list after the data is computed. Our data shows that the book is being purchased in large volumes over the internet, chain bookstores and independent bookstores. This would indicate that this particular Black book has left the niche market and now crossed over into the mainstream and is being purchased by the entire book-buying community.

Therefore it makes sense that using a sound computation method, The Known World and On The Down Low rank high on our list and continue to be in the top five. Honestly, it's confusing why these titles aren't on the radar of the other lists.

Take Zane's titles for instance. It only seems logical that after computing the numbers, the single most bestselling Black woman writer today would rank high, but not as high as those books that have crossed over into the mainstream of books buyers such as a Pulitzer. It is not our intention to say a Pulitzer is better than any other book, but we simply plug in the numbers and the results are what they are.

If we were to take a step back in time, and place Waiting to Exhale on the list, it probably would have been the number one book on the list for quite some time because women of all different ethnicities were reading the book.

To answer your questions Akaivyleaf:

Our BBB value is how we rank the book and quantification of that book is simply the BBB value with the highest number. In the purest form of numbers, there is no limit. Infinity is the highest number. Our BBB value weighs different sources, but the end result has no limit. If readers were to analyze the BBB value, they'll see that the higher the number, the better a book has performed for that week of data collection.

The BBB value is not cumulative from week to week, although we take that into consideration for future TOP 100.
Our lists are generated based on data at the time of our weekly collection.

The BBB value is also a way for readers to keep us honest. It would be easy for us to grab 10 titles at random, put them on a list and assign them a value of 1-10. But the six-digits number on the TOP 100 and four-digit numbers on the fiction list are an indication that are lists are truly dynamic each week and we've taken time and hard work so that readers may see the entire landscape.

As for street vendors and accurate records. I would guess that it's difficult keeping records on a busy street corner, but I spoke with a writer for a Black book magazine who consulted with a major Black book distributor. Supposedly, street vendors account for 40% of the Black book market in New York City. Even if that number is half accurate, we feel 20% of book sales is a significant amount that we can't ignore while computing our data.

In fear that I sound like a broken record, we hope that readers will agree, the list makes sense. Thanks again for your time and attention to BBB.

Read On,


Jasmine Searles
jsearles@bestblackbooks.com
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Njanene
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Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 01:03 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I went to the Best Black Books website and I have to wonder about the compilation data also. While I understand the need to protect sources (Just try finding out the sources for the New York Times bestseller lists), as an independent bookseller of African American Titles (online and physical locations), I would like to know how Best Black Books contacts individual booksellers.

For the most part, the list seems kind of accurate. For Example, On the Down Low is definitely a hotseller. On the other hand, I can't possibly see how The Known World is doing better than Zane or some of the hip-hop fiction titles on the market. If you are compiling data from street vendors in New York, it just seems that several popular hip-hop fiction titles should be on the list because many hip-hop authors live off New York street vendors. In addition, I haven't seen The Known World on several of the major bestsellers' lists (New York Times, Publisher's Weekly, USA Today, etc.) for some time.

There is another book, The Dew Breaker by Edwidge
Danticat, that is a Today Show Pick, definitely
on the cross-over track, and yet, it is not on
the list.

And another thing that concerns me: One of the bestselling titles last month, A One Woman Man by Travis Hunter, is 106 on the list. It just seems like it should be higher because it has been so popular that the publisher, Random House (One World), ran out of copies and is on another printing. I didn't even see My Daughter's Boyfriend by Cydney Rax, also a fast-selling title (please correct me if I'm wrong and it is on the list).

Of course, I know that the popularity of books is regional (for example, Dancing on the Edge of the Roof by Sheila Williams continues to be a bestseller for KISO here in Columbus). In addition, I think Best Black Books adds an interesting mix to the bookselling game. I totally understand and support your desire to maintain the integrity of your sources. I think that Troy gave Best Black Books a vote of confidence on another thread and that's good enough for me. I guess I mainly want to add the perspective of a bookseller who is not a source for Best Black Books' compilation data.

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Blackbooks
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Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 07:19 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Njanene,

You've raised some valid questions and I'm happy to answer them. You'll notice at the top menu bar, we have a link specifically for booksellers. Booksellers can contact us via the website and if their data is not already inclusive within our various sources, we are certainly obliged to incorporate their individual sales data.

This is an issue of great concern to us. Current Black bestseller lists use specific booksellers for results and in the book community their has been some concern as to the significance of the sample size from a small number of bookstores. While the number of sources/stores is large when compared to the the number of active Black bookstores, it may seem rather small when compared to number of places where Black books are purchased.

For instance, what about Black books purchased in Iowa, Nevada, or Alaska? These states and more go virtually unaccounted for. But at BBB, we feel that by using various sources we are funneling a larger sample of all areas where Black books are purchased.

Yet another advantage of the BBB list is that our weekly publication makes the list incredibly dynamic. So books that may not have been showcased one week may very well be listed the next. The Dew Breaker is a prime example. By all indications the book will make its way to the list, but its ranking can only be determined by our formula.

We'd like to think BBB is interactive. If a reader knows of a title that is not on the list, we are happy to run the title through our sources and compile a BBB number to see if it makes the list. This is not, however, the same as recommending a book for the list. It is merely a way readers can interact with this great tool and have a voice in which books may be considered for the list. To our knowledge, no other list does this. Unlike other lists that report only titles that certain stores are selling, we go out and find titles to add to our database and run them through our formula. This is why we can list 100/150 books per month.

With regard to your questions about specific titles, it just makes sense that the Travis Hunter book would debut at 106 since it was released July 1 and the sales data is just now starting to make its way into the data sources. If the publisher did indeed order more books, that data should be reflected in the following weeks and the title should see a higher position as well as longevity on the list. Compare the Hunter book to an Eric Jerome Dickey book. Dickey has a larger following than Hunter so it only makes sense that Dickey's Drive Me Crazy would debut high on the list based on advance sales. Hunter's following is growing and he too may debut higher. It just makes sense.

If we look at the speculative numbers of Zane and The Known world... I hesitate to do this because it enters social variables into the the equation. Yet for the sake of critical feedback, I'll try to examine why it makes sense.

I've read Zane's work before. Many of my friends have read Zane. Many people like me have read Zane. People unlike me or my background have read The Known World. Some people like me have read The Known World.

According to old data, 12.5% of the US population is like me and a large portion is not like me, if you follow me. If we were to take a room filled with people who represent the US population and give them a choice of reading Zane or Edward P. Jones, it makes sense that the majority would pick Jones. I'd pick Zane by the way.

Now if we think about schools and libraries. It's summer time and many students have required reading over the summer. It's not a far stretch to assume that The Known World might be on a suggested summer reading list, while Zane might not be. It just makes sense. When the numbers match logic, we hope readers will find that the end result(our list) is a prodcut of hard work, ingenuity, and fair reporting.

I do appreciate your questions and concerns. You can contact me directly if you like by the e-mail below.

Read On,


Jasmine Searles
jsearles@bestblackbooks.com
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Emanuel
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Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 09:20 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Jasmine,

Have you considered expanding the site to include a compilation of reviews as well? I'm thinking something like they do with movie reviews on Metacritic.com. Check out their site; and you'll know what I mean?

Emanuel
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Njanene
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Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 07:37 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jasmine,

Thank you for your insights. Like I wrote before, I think that Best Black Books adds an interesting mix to the bookselling game. I only have one point of contention: the reasoning behind Zane's and Jones' placement on your list.

You wrote "Many people like me read Zane." However, as a New York Times bestselling author, I would imagine that Zane, in some respects, has received mainstream recognition.

Well, I will continue to visit your site and recommend it to others so they can make their own determinations.
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Thumper
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Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 08:59 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello All,

Jasmine: Thanks for your replies. I have read them all and I don't want to seem that I badgering you. I believe I understand your system. Your explanation of the ratings of Zane and The Known World isn't logical, or if it is smacks of prejudice. Comments like, People like me reads Zane, backs up my statement.

Second, I can understand why you don't want to reveal your sources and how your tabulate the data, but I still have a question. I notice that in your replies, you fail to mention the input from libraries. Why is that? I know that publishers count on libraries and not everyone that lives on a budget can afford to but every book they read. I know I couldn't. I was among the first ones to call to library and put my name on the lists to check out newly published books. Does your list reflect books that are being checked out at the library?
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Blackbooks
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 12:01 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear Thumper,

Please don't feel as though you're badgering me. It's my pleasure to help readers understand why we feel that our list is the definitive one. I regret that you feel my previous explanation wasn't logical. Maybe we will have to respectfully disagree on that issue because I respect your opinion as a reader.

Also, if my explanation came across as prejudicial, it was not my intent. I prefaced that statement with my hesitation for making such a comment and unfortunately I feel it does play a factor in who, where, when, why, and how America buys books.

Thanks once again for your feedback. Our sources analyze data that is reflective of U.S. library sales. I do believe that we are the only list that can make that claim. This gives us yet one more reason to keep striving to become the definitive list.

Hope you enjoy this week's list.

Read On,

Jasmine
jsearles@bestblackbooks.com
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Abm
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 02:07 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jasmine,
You have provided a most vigorous defense of the hows/whys of your ranking mechanism, though I suspect as long as you obfuscate your methodology amid ambiguous concerns about ownership and licensing, many will continue to view the what/how/why of your listings with suspicions.

For example, one might consider your lists to be merely shills for the more popular/famed (wealthy) writers/publishers.

Have you considered listing the top 100 and/or 150 Black books sans any ranking? This might reduce some of the concerns about bias toward select authors/books.

Also, have you attempted to copyright and/or patent your ranking methodology. Doing such might grant you the freedom to discuss your system without concerns about about improper licensing/usage.
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Blackbooks
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Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 10:02 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dear ABM,

Thanks for your comments. As with all feedback, we will take it into consideration. We hope that readers who peruse our list will notice right away that it is comprised of Black writers from the entire spectrum of Black books. For instance, one might notice the diversity of writers famed and not so famed.

Our list shows Shannon Holmes, Alice Walker, Eric Jerome Dickey and other very well-known writers.
But our list also shows Wahida Clark, Carl Hancock Rux, ZZ Packer, Elijah Wald and other writers that may not be as well known as other popular writers. In that we respect, we sincerely hope it's obvious that our lists are made without favoritism but instead with fair reporting and unbiased input.

If a reader were to compare any other Black bestselling list, we believe they would notice right away the books and authors featured on our list are much more diverse and representative of the entire field of Black books. As an example The Three Musketeers made our top 100/150 list. When the numbers computed, we were confused, surprised, then delighted. It makes sense that one of the most classic books make a bestselling list and it was a plus that the author of this great book was of African descent. Two spaces below Alexander Dumas, is Karen Miller a well-known urban writer. A reader would have to search far and wide in order to find a list with a combination such as that.

At BBB we realize, as with all new ventures and businesses, there will be some resistance. Our plan is to simply win people over by offering consistency and a product that does not exist.

So far our feedback has been great. Here are some comments from readers:

Read On,

Jasmine Searles
jsearles@bestblackbooks.com

"...Your effort is an awesome attempt to bring more recognition to Black writers and their work. I applaud you for doing a job well done. Your web site is well organized and easy to use. I will check your lists each week before making my book purchases. Thank you for your service. It is a much needed addition to the world of Black Books."

I.U.

"...I think this is going to be a great resource for book clubs and an excellent goal for authors to strive toward. Best of luck."
J. M.

"Congratulations on your new site. It's really an
achievement..."
S.J.

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