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Bleekindig0
Newbie Poster
Username: Bleekindig0
Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 04:57 pm: | 
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I am reading a biography on Richard Wright. In the process of doing so, I began to wonder why I was reading a biography at all. I had already read the autobiography. In reading the bio-was I inadvertently questioning Wright's integrity? Was it for perspective? Is authorial integrity enough? In asking this question of myself, I wondered if my integrity would be enough should I decided to write my own autobiography. How different would I paint myself than those who know me would paint me for the biographer? Would your integrity be enough if you were to author your life story? I've thought on it and i've decided that... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 670
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 07:55 pm: |
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A particularly interesting question for me, since I've recently developed a preference for biographies. Truth has more of an impact on me than fiction, and a bio, is, after all, a collection of glorified gossip. Who can resist being made privy to someone's personal life. Furthermore, being portrayed through the eyes of others probably makes a better read than an autobiography which can be too self-serving. As for me, I would certainly be interested in reading a version of my life written by someone I had confidence in but, in the end, I'd prefer to write my own biography because I have no delusions about myself or my life and have, in fact been called my own worst critic. (Even so, my self-esteem remains in tact.)
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Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 175
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 10:32 am: |
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It may not be a question of integrity. I think, like Cynique said, an author may leave things out that he may want to keep private or he may think wouldn't be of interest to a reader. That may be self-serving in a way, or it may be unintentional. If someone else writes the story of your life you have to wonder what is driving the author's pen. Is he trying to sell a book? Make a point? Is this a vindictive move? To what lengths will this person go to achieve their goal?
How low will they stoop? How much is actually being embellished, because no one can know everything about another person's life? |
Bleekindigo
First Time Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 10:53 am: |
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Cynique-thank you for your response.
Can you recommend a few good bio's that you've read?
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Bleekindigo
Newbie Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 11:01 am: |
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Lambd you said:
If someone else writes the story of your life you have to wonder what is driving the author's pen. Is he trying to sell a book? Make a point? ...To what lengths will this person go to achieve their goal? How low will they stoop? How much is actually being embellished, because no one can know everything about another person's life?
You made the above remarks in reference to the biographer. My question to you is--can't the same questions be wondered when the writer is the subject? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 331
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 11:02 am: |
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Bleek:
By the Way, what Biography were you reading and which autobiography of Wright--Black Boy or another?
You were not questioning Wright's integrity at all. The human memory is faulty, and at best the author of an autobiography will forget details or get them wrong that a careful researcher, a dispassionate biographyer, will check up on. At worst though, the autobiographer (is that the right term) will have prejudices, axes to grind, things he or she is embarassed by and will leave out, and tell outright lies.
An interesting facet of Wright's life is to read the telling of the fabled falling out he had with James Baldwin through his eyes, Baldwin's eyes, Chester Himes' eyes (Himes who was present was Wright's devoted friend) and those of a fourth party--I think it was Ollie Harrington. It was like Rashamon.
You should write your own autobiography. It will definitely be of interest to anyone in that it will reveal how you saw things. Without a doubt you will paint yourself differently--I am reading a biography of Chester Himes by James Sallis. Himes spent about 7 1/2 years in prison and wrote a novel about it and a number of short stories but he devoted about 6 pages to it in his autobiography. Additionally, prison was where he became a writer, contributing to such magazines as Esquire. Something more than 6 pages worth occurred (compare Autobiography of Malcolm X) That period was a pivotal point in his life when he embarked on his life's mission.
Was he lying? Leaving something out? Had it all faded away by the time he wrote it?
So far I have not had a life worth an autobiography. When and if I feel it is time to write one I am going to lie like a rug. |
Bleekindigo
Newbie Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 3
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 12:17 pm: |
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Chrishayden I could not stop laughing at the last line of your post!!! I was- floored!! (No pun intended to that of your lie like a rug!!) I'm still laughing over here.
I read Black Boy.
"...the fabled falling out he had with James Baldwin through his eyes, Baldwin's eyes, Chester Himes' eyes..."
This "falling out", I have never heard of it!! Where can I read of it?? I have to investigate Chester Himes.
You've mentioned Baldwin. The air in my literary world!! You must then, be able to recommend a few marvelous bio's/autobio's that you've read--on/by anyone!!
As for you post. Very well said. |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 177
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 12:29 pm: |
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Bleek, you are absolutely right. My bad for not mentioning that the same could be wondered about an autobiographer. I was trying to be unbiased, I guess I didn't make myself clear. That's why I write technical manuals. There's no mistaking in what I'm trying to say. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 335
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 12:36 pm: |
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Bleek:
Some background on the fabled falling out. Wright had been very helpful to Baldwin early in his career. Got him a grant. Loaned him money.
While in Paris in about 1949 Baldwin took it in his head to write an essay, "Everybody's Protest Novel" which is a criticism of the notion of protest literature in general and Uncle Tom's Cabin specifically--at the end of which he made some statements that could be taken as an attack on Wright's Native Son.
Supposedly not long afterward at a cafe in Paris, Wright had it out with Baldwin about it. According to Wright, Baldwin became hysterical and began to shriek, "I'm going to destroy you!" According to Baldwin, he tried to explain to Wright that he hadn't tried to attack him but Wright was all worked up and wouldn't listen.
Himes' account is somewhere between the two. During the exchange, or later, Baldwin may or may not have said, "We must all slay our fathers" which everybody took to mean something different. You can read about it from Baldwin's POV in "Alas Poor Richard" which is included in his collected Essays. You can read about it from Himes' in his autobiography, "The Quality of Hurt". You can read about it from a third in "Chester Himes A Life" by James Sallis--which is a good biography. There is a Wright Biography I just read that you can read to get his take on it, which would be a good one. I also just read a good Baldwin Biography, but will have to get the name of the author.
Anybody else have any other good ones to suggest? |
Bleekindigo
Newbie Poster
Username: Bleekindigo
Post Number: 4
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 12:54 pm: |
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Chrishayden:
I have my Price of The Ticket with me here at work--I am going to read again, Everybody's Protest Novel and for the first time, Alas Poor Richard. I am excited.
What other authors do you read? What kinds of writings move you most? Lambd? Cynique? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 672
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 01:10 pm: |
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Bleekindigo, in answer to your query, some of the biographies I've recently read and would recommend are those about Zora Neal Hurston, and Nella Larsen,(both Harlem Renaissance figures), Madame C.J. Walker, and Sammy Davis. Lena Horne, Joe Louis, and, of course, W.E.B.Dubois have all had great biographies written about them. Also the 2-volume Langston Hughes one, where, incidentally, his version of the legendary feud between him and Zora Neal Thurston is detailed and, not surprising, differs from Zora's version of it. "All God's Chillun", the life the Bosket clan, a family of "bad niggas" was another book I found just fascinating!
There are just so many great biographies out there, mainly because if a person has led an extraordinary life, his story will eventually make it into print. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 339
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 03:22 pm: |
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Well, Cynique. Aren't you wondering how you'll come off in my autobiography, hmmm? Just a little bit? hmmm? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 675
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 03:28 pm: |
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No, I am not. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 340
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 03:48 pm: |
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I'll give you a hint. What movie is this line from: "I'm still big! It's the pictures that got smaller!" |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 677
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 04:50 pm: |
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It's from "Sunset Boulevard". And just why would I be in your autobiography?? You're too egotistical to acknowledge the people who think you are full of yourself. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 342
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 05:07 pm: |
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Cynique:
Very good--I'll have to try to be more obscure with my references in the future
You are too modest, madame. Remember when you found me, barefoot in my village? How I could barely speak English and ate the mashed potatoes with my hands? Remember that crash course in language and manners and culture (oh, I admit the electric shocks were a little gauche but they got the job done).
Yes, truly the dedication of my autobiography would have to read--"To Cynique. All this I accomplished I owe to you--it wasn't your fault I didn't bury those bodies a little deeper--- |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 400
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 05:27 pm: |
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So...will the enchanting gypsy dancing girl Esmeralda (Cynique) fall in love with the misshapen knuckle-dragging bell-ringer Quasimodo (Chris)? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 680
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 05:27 pm: |
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Chris, you could be the poster boy for the term "Creative Nuisance." |
Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 53
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 11:36 pm: |
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ABM, you still manage to crack me up! Man, that came out of nowhere and had me.
Carey |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 181
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 09:13 am: |
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If I didn't want C-neek so badly myself, I would get her and Hayden a room! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 405
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 11:17 am: |
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Lambd,
Why? So you can hide in the closet and enjoy watching them 'throw down'? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 346
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 11:42 am: |
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All:
That's allright. Laugh if you want to. The stripes I bear away shall be badges of honor--
Abm:
I didn't know I had included a photo in my poster profile! Is that you beaming those messages to my mind when I'm sleep from your secret flying saucer base under the volcano? |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 184
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 02:21 pm: |
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Abm: You are twisted.
Chishayden: What an imagination. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 415
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 02:44 pm: |
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Lambd,
You think this is something, you should hang with me when I'm drinking.
Chris,
~"I always feel like somebody's watchin' meeee...And I've got no privacy. Oh Oh Oh Ohhhh!"~ (Rockwell & Michael Jackson)
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Tee
Regular Poster
Username: Tee
Post Number: 41
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 08:56 am: |
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Abm/Chris, I'm sure I've missed this over the years, but do you have published books or books on the horizon? I'd love to read your work.
Bleekindig, I don't read too many auto-bios because as someone said, it just seems self-serving to me and I always wonder what are they leaving out, what are they sugar-coating, what REALLY went down in their life. Though I still have similar questions about biographies...
But, one of the recent ones I read that was simply one of the best books I've ever read was Success Never Smelled So Sweet by Lisa Price, the founder of Carol's Daughter.
Instead of rambling on and on, I'd like to share a portion of my review:
There is nothing in the world like seeing someone take a passion and making it into something that not only benefits them, but is a blessing to others as well. SUCCESS NEVER SMELLED SO SWEET is such a book, as it shares the life story of Lisa Price, the founder of Carol's Daughter, Inc., a line of bath and beauty products. To be able to read such a remarkable story is indeed a blessing that so many others are now able to receive. Through her memoir, we're able to see not only a glimpse into the growth and development of a million dollar empire, but also into the strength of one woman who chose to follow her dreams, despite hard times and obstacles along her path.
...
Lisa Price's determination, passion, and drive for what she does slides off the pages of this book and into your very soul. This book is truly an inspirational story that anyone who reads will benefit from, as you are able to see that it was not until she let go of her fears, her self-doubt, and inability to break away from the past and move forward with what the future may bring that she was able to truly receive the blessings in store for her. There are exact passages and lines in this book that I felt were written by me on my own journey towards following my passion and entrepreneurship; things I could relate to so closely that they left me in tears. I give high praise and thanks to Lisa for sharing her story as well as to the person who referred this book to me as I normally do not read this genre. I don't recall any other book that I've ever read which has touched my life so much...
-Tee C. Royal
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Tee
Regular Poster
Username: Tee
Post Number: 42
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 08:59 am: |
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I meant to include the link to the book for more information:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1400061091/aalbc-20
-Tee |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 349
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 11:10 am: |
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Tee:
I have poems published online and on the AALBC Poetree site next door.My poems have appeared in the print magazines Drumvoices Revue, Long Shot, Break Word With the World Sisters Nineties and Black Magnolias.
This fall, my first novel, Vampyre Blues: The Passion of Varnado (an African American Vampyre Romance) will be published by Door of Kush Publications, the courageous publishers of Queen Kola Boof.
My speculative fiction stories "City of Corners", "Cold Chillin' On Mercury", "A Girl 2 Die 4" and "Shadow of Death" (and an interview) appear in issues 1-4 of Cecil Washington's Creative Brother Sci Fi Magazine--Da ONLIEST magazine on or offline that is solely dedicated to black speculative fiction.
http://www.lulu.com/cecilwashington
My crime/noir short story "Waitin' For Sweet Saphronia Mae" (so black and strong Cynique couldn't stand to read it) appears at the Plots With Guns website
http://www.plotswithguns.com/SaphroniaMae.htm
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 422
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 01:34 pm: |
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It is difficult to know which is superior: The Biography ("B") or the Autobiography ("AB"). Certainly, you would assume the AB might include info that only the subject him (her)self can know/reveal. Conversely, the subject might derive a more direct/immediate benefit from distorting and/or omitting uncomplimentary elements of their life than the author of a B might.
It all comes down to the credibility of the author.
I imagine an AB may be pretty complete/candid if its subject has already "fallen from grace". Because if one has already endured obloquy, what reason remains for them to edit out the bad stuff? (For example, would former Pres. Clinton admit in his autobiography that he did what he did with Lewinsky simply because "I could" if he had not already endured Ken Starr's sordid report of cigars and soiled dresses? Doubt it!).
And consider the B that is written by someone with an unbiased, apolitical (and perhaps even academic) background. Sure, it is difficult to discern the relative degree to which one politicizes his or her writing. But a review of documents written by and about them might reveal whether the author is inclined to pen a full and impartial accounting of the subject's life.
Lastly, a great AB/B can provide some of the very best fodder for learning about history in general. Because seeing how an individual was influenced and was affected by past events can bring to life the study of history in ways that can rarely (if ever) be achieved via pursuing sterile, inert facts/figures/dates.
Tee,
My Dear, I am not an author. Alas, I am but a measly literary dilettante. But I promise should I ever stir up the guts to officially publish something, I will be sure to share the fruits of my estetitic mediocrity with you and the rest of our fellow 'Thumpites'. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 424
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 03:01 pm: |
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Tee,
WOW! Was Lisa Price born in a manger? |
Tee
Regular Poster
Username: Tee
Post Number: 46
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 08:07 pm: |
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Chris, thanks for the information, I'll have to check you out!
ABM, I thought long and hard before I put that "high praise and respect" in the review, but to remove it takes away from just how much the book touched me. It is not to imply that I look at her as I look at Christ, but sometimes we need that extra "force" or "something" that moves us.
Quite simply, this book is that for me.
-Tee |
Lambd
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Lambd
Post Number: 194
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 12:01 pm: |
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Abm, you kill me, man. You say some wild stuff. And you get away with it. That's the best part. Most of the time, if I try that crap, I get crucified. I wanna be you, man. You are my new hero. Consider that ass freshly kissed.
Enjoy it while it lasts, MF. I'll be cussing that ass out tomorrow!...born in a manger. LMAOS&F! |
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