| Author | Message | ||
     Bimsha Newbie Poster Username: Bimsha Post Number: 7 Registered: 02-2004 Rating: N/A |
Alice Walker's newest: Now Is the time to Open Your Heart - first printing is 100K as compared to Toni Morrison's LOVE at 500k. I feel as a reader, (while I love both women) that AW's writing is more accessible. They have both won the Pulitzer and the winning books adapted to the silver screen. I believe, AW has published more books, counting the volumes of poetry. What makes one author more popular than the other?? | ||
| Kc_trudiva Newbie Poster Username: Kc_trudiva Post Number: 12 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
bimsha wrote: what makes one author more popular than the other? hype! doesn't matter how much better one writer is than the other, hype sells books (and the author). although people complain that they don't do toni (morrison) because her books are too hard to read, she still continues to sell. hype! imho, ess | ||
| Yukio "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 172 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
hmmmm...I don't know, but for literary fiction, selling books is not whats makes folk more or less "popular." Accessibility is also not necessarily a variable that is important...at the end of the day, the person that will be marketed most, as far as literary fiction is concerned, is the artist whose work is considered relevant and socalled quality. In addition, these market schemes lead to more consumers knowledgeable about the artist...after Color Purple, although her work was/is quality, AW didn't receive the same consideration...perhaps because it was also nonfiction and poetry, which is also marketed another way...TM's nonfiction is primarily academic publications, and she had mostly remained a novelist, which will usually receive more publicity than poetry, thus yet another variable....but selling books, not sure if that is really a concern. At the end of the day, it seems, toni morrison's work has received more literary acclaim than alice walker...if their pulitzer's were compared, one could argue that color purple's award had more to do with the socio-political environment that co-existed with feminism...while toni morrison's work also existed in a conversative turning back the clock civil rights moment, but the themes, narrative, story, prose, etc...are perhaps more moving and more of a canonic watershed than walker's narrative...imho, that is...lmao! | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 120 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
All: Hype is part of it. Chops and Rep (Toni's got the Nobel, and Pulitzer--Alice has got just the Pulitzer) is part of it. Sales, Yukio notwithstanding, also have something to do with it--Alice's last hits were a long time ago. She hasn't been moving numbers in a long time. ("Color Purple" in the 80's was her last smash hit--Tony got another bounce out of Beloved in the 90's) If Alice's book moves those 100k, they will print more. They can always print more. But the publishers are looking at her track record and the performance of such as Possessing the Secret of Joy and The Temple of My Familiar-- But, let us not count out their business acumen. They can calculate what a book will sell based on how it reads, too--sometimes they are wrong, but many times they are right. They may have read it and said, this ain't gonna move but so many, we'll go 100k. | ||
| Kc_trudiva Newbie Poster Username: Kc_trudiva Post Number: 13 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
yukio wrote: "at the end of the day, it seems, toni morrison's work has received more literary acclaim than alice walker..." does that not seem like another way of saying...HYPE! just a thought. ess | ||
| Yukio "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 173 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
CH and KXT: Yes, yes...it is the "hype," so to speak, but hype based on what, is the question! Bimsha's question pertained to sells and Kc_trudiva's response pertained to hype leading to sells. Hype is a bit ambiguous and easy to use since you can apply it to anything, but what leads us to clarity is, i believe, What are the ingredients of the socalled hype? KCT's usage of hype leads to sells...this is an equation...for x=hype=? If i was to used "hype," as kc_trudiva has, then it would mean literary quality, which does increase sells but it is really about literary acclaim and fundamentally, how the socalled literary establishment judged the artist. CH: Hmmmm....interesting point. I do agree with your comments from the publisher's standpoint, ie "sales." Yet, I really don't think the kind of socalled popularity that each maintain has had much to do with sells once the artist is deemed as a literary writer...our boy, JEWideman does not sell well, but is very popular, of course not as popular as Walker and Morrison. My analysis is based off of our forgotten Imprint's post months ago about the different functions of literary and commercial fiction within a publishing company... | ||
| Abm Veteran Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 56 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
It seems the hubbub surrounding the cinematic presentation of the "Color Purple" may have hurt as much as helped Alice Walker. Because after that, she was - fair/unfair - made out to be as much political figure as she does a literary one. And her politics, much of which has been communicated in her poems/non-fiction, are apparently such that many might disagree with. Thus, if one doesn’t indulge her alleged politics, one might ignore her writing. I agree there has been a great deal of ‘hype’ associated with Toni Morrison that no African American author enjoys. Certainly the Nobel Prize helps. And Oprah, the literary King-Queen maker, has practically deified Morrison. And although Morrison's books can be onerously difficult to read, it has, largely due to Winfrey, become a badge of literary honor to ‘endure’ a Toni Morrison book. But more than any other that, there is something almost ‘universal’ about Morrison’s writing. Although she has most often written period pieces, her words unfurl into something that transcend the very epoch to which her literature refers. | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 123 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Why, Abm. You are practically waxing poetic. In your long absense you have become deeper. More profound. Are you smoking a pipe now? | ||
| Akaivyleaf Regular Poster Username: Akaivyleaf Post Number: 36 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
To Bimsha's question on what makes one author more popular than another, I think the answer is simply publicity. Both ladies have received critical acclaim, been awarded literary prizes and both cater to similar but diverse reading audiences. I read Alice Walker for entertainment, I read Toni Morrison for intellectual stimulation. That is not to say that either lady is boxed into my broad categories but they are marketed differently and that affects how people think of them. As to Kc_trudiva- I would have to agree with her use of the word hype... i just call it publicity. I don't think relevancy plays a huge role in the numbers game. Whose call is it to say that one book is more relavant than another. I think its marketing, hype, publicity etc. I think the numbers game between 100K and 500K is simply the fact that Toni has been marketed much more than Alice. For instance since Oprah's book club inception in 1996, every other year she's featured Toni. 1996- Song of Solomon, 1998- Paradise, 2000- The Bluest Eye and 2002-Sula. What will it be for 2004? None of Alice Walkers books have appeared. That famous O on the cover of a book, calls for many printing runs.Not the fact that one authors work is more "relevant" than the other. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 251 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Lately, Alice Walker does seem to have a tendency to indulge herself by writing about her own narrow interests. Whereas Toni writes about what she thinks will enrich her readers, and when she does this in her own inimitable way, you can't touch her. | ||
| Kc_trudiva Newbie Poster Username: Kc_trudiva Post Number: 15 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
i hear more about toni morrison than alice walker. i have read more books by toni morrison than by alice walker. why? because my interested has been piqued and therefore i was intrigued to find out what all the "hype" was about. my use of the word "hype" is merely to say that one author is receiving more notariety than the next, be it in the form of publicity, book sales, personal appearances, movies, etc. and all those equate to "popularity" in my opinion...as humble as it is. ess | ||
| Yukio "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 175 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
yes, yes...actually, in consideration of the posts...there is a difference between popularity and critical acclaim, as well. JEW has received the latter but not the former...I didn't even think about Oprah...not a fan or foe, and she doesn't really exist in my cosmology...lmao! Yet, Oprah has certainly popularized Toni Morrison... | ||
| Bimsha Newbie Poster Username: Bimsha Post Number: 9 Registered: 02-2004 Rating: N/A |
A friend of my brought up a question today w/reagrds to Oprah -- why do you all think it is Oprah has never chosen an Alice Walker novel?? My friend suggests that Alice and Nikki Giovanni are good friends and it is no secret that Nikki is not a fan of Oprah and is vocal about it. Could it be pettiness? Oprah is still human, so certainly not above it. It is something to think about since The Color Purple was Oprah's first step into motion picture stardom - and so I would think that she would show a bit of gratitude... What say you all? | ||
| Abm Veteran Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 63 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Chris, HAHAHA! Thanks for the props (I think?). Really? Do you observe a change in my style? Hmmmm. Well, no. There's been no pipe smokin'. But maybe an occassional...Ok, frequent...shot of Jack Daniels has inspired my poetic waxing (which, though it hurts like heck, sure makes my skin baby smooth). | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 260 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Bimsha, You might be right about why Oprah has never featured an Alice Walker book on her show. Once you offend her, she kicks you to the curb. Just ask David Letterman. | ||
| Akaivyleaf Regular Poster Username: Akaivyleaf Post Number: 41 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Only Oprah can answer that... but it does seem that she has a problem with getting her feelings hurt. Remember Jonathan Franzen? He single handedly changed her book club... | ||
| Abm Veteran Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 67 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Foks, It wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn that Walker is paying dearly for earning a unenviable slot on Oprah’s dreaded s#@+list. The omnipotent Oprah does not countenance betrayal. Winfrey is so guarded of her image/reputation that she requires EVERYONE with whom she has a relationship - employee, business, friend, etc. - to sign a LIFETIME contract to NEVER speak/write of her private dealings. That contract prevails even AFTER your relationship with her is terminated. And that comes from a woman who has made >$1 Billion bucks from delving into the profoundly personal affairs of others. Baby, it’s either the ‘O’ way or it’s 'NO' way. | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 141 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Abm: I thought I was the resident Oprah basher. It looks like I gotta move on over! Careful about rousing up the O-maniacs (though they are cooling off, it used to be when I slammed Oprah I used to have to walk around for weeks wearing a disguise). Those fanatics look on anything less than fawning O-worship as blasphemy. If it gets too hot you can hide out here in St. Louis. | ||
| Abm AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 77 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: |
Chris, I am not an "Oprah basher". I am more a wary observer. And most of my criticism pertains less to her than it does to all of hype that surrounds her. Don’t get me wrong. She is obviously a very bright, industrious and charismatic woman. In a capitalist society, one deserves every buck he/she legally gets. She appears to be generous of her time/money. And I truly think she has done some wonderful things to promote self-discovery and reading/literature. But come on... I just think there is something bizarre about a society where a woman who has a very modest formal education, who had never had children and has never married can be elevated to some omniscient, omnipotent social and cultural stratum. Simply, how can a woman who dropped out of college (to suck up to her, Tennessee State eventually ‘gave’ to her a Communications degree); who has never given birth to and nipple-fed a screaming newborn at 2:00 AM; haggled over sex, kids and money with a angry, stoic, cheating husband; and the myriad other things mother/wife struggle with be considered America’s Most Admired Woman? | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 278 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Oprah was a teen-aged mother, Abm, and reportedly gave birth to a son although he only lived a short time. She was also sexually molested as a child and later used sex as a means of getting her way during her depraved adolesecent years. (all of this is revealed in her autobiography.) I also hear she has a foul mouth in private and is quite different in person than she is in front of the camera. I'm not a huge Oprah fan, but I gotta give the ol girl her props. She was at the right place at the right time and was obviously ready when, by a stroke of luck, opportunity struck. | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 146 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Abm: She regularly doles out marriage advice to those pathetic shmoos though she has never been married. Child rearing advice though she has never reared a child. Weight reduction advice though she can't keep her weight off. Advice on relationships though she doesn't seem to have one. Well, Hitler was able to deify the tall blond, blue eyed virile German though he wasnt. Strom Thurmond railed against equal rights for black people though he had a black daughter. It is a triumph of marketing and merchandising--though I'll admit she is very good at what she does. I could never sit there with some of those pathetic guests and feign interest 5 hours a week, every week. It is a talent. Now if we could persuade Cynique, I am sure she could dethrone her. Think of it! Euqinyc productions! "C" Magazine! Which one of us will be Steadman? | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 280 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Very funny, Chris. Ha-Ha. You're fired! | ||
| Chrishayden "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 148 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
Cynique: Oh no! I am the Omarosa of AALBC! | ||
| Kc_trudiva Newbie Poster Username: Kc_trudiva Post Number: 20 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
what are you talking about Oprah doesn't know about marriage and children? one word...Gayle. | ||
| Abm AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 83 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
All, Again, unlike Chris, I am not out to ‘bash’ Oprah or anything. Her wealth/fame does not disqualify her from having the right to be a flawed human being. And I don’t know her personally, so I’m unqualified to criticize anything about her other than what she presents on her venerable TV show. What bugs me is all of the disingenuous praise she receives from practically EVERYONE who has any association with her. Anyone with 1/4th a brain knows all the a$$licking that she receives from other rich/famous people is really about them staying in the good graces of someone who speaks before +30 million (mostly White) women per day. Cynique, Thanks for correcting me on Oprah’s teen mom period. I had forgotten about that. But I never read Oprah’s autobiography. There’s only so much of someone else’s self-glorification I can withstand. (My own, of course, I can endure forever. HAHA!) Chris, You aren’t sticking pins in you Oprah voodoo doll again, are you? Kc_trudiva, Perhaps. Although, I think Same-Sex marriages are not (yet) legal in Oprah’s hometown of Chicago. But hey, Oprah’s so all-powerful I’m sure she/Gayle could work something out. Cynique/Chris, You 2 need to take your act on the road. | ||
| Kc_trudiva Newbie Poster Username: Kc_trudiva Post Number: 22 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
*shaking head* abm you know i wasn't implying that oprah is married to gayle. i was implying that since she's such a good close friend to her, she has been involved in gayle's marriage and rearing of her children. in fact, it was speculated that oprah caused gayle's marriage to eventually dissolve. so that's why i said oprah knows about marriage and children. and the biography cynique is referring to isn't an actual book; it was a special on that tv show Biography. | ||
| Abm AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 88 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kc_trudiva, Then baby, say whatchu mean and mean whatchu say! | ||
| Abm AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 89 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Kc_trudiva, I don’t know, but it seems to me that your own comments about Oprah being such a "good close friend to her, she has been involved in gayle's marriage and rearing of her children. in fact, it was speculated that oprah caused gayle's marriage to eventually dissolve" kinda validates my crack about them entertaining the possibility of a same-sex union. (Chess, baby. Not Checkers.) | ||
| Kc_trudiva Newbie Poster Username: Kc_trudiva Post Number: 23 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
abm: *rolling eyes* whateva man. take that and everything else i say and twist it into whateva angle you choose. i don't expect less from you. and we've only had the pleasure of conversing for how long? i don't play chess. my philosophy: why beat around a bush and read between lines that don't exist. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 290 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Oprah does an autobiography in book form. I read it. | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 294 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
correction: the previous post should read: there is an Oprah autobiography in book form. |
