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Chrishayden
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Username: Chrishayden

Post Number: 1119
Registered: 03-2004

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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 09:38 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

POV: rejection
==================

http://www.mediachannel.org/views/dissector/affalert362.shtml
The Sixth Coming of Harry:
Book Publishing's Rejection Culture
By C. I. Chatelle
MediaChannel.org

Most writers have to pay his or her dues by steeling themselves against editors' repeated rejections while trying to keep the creative juices flowing. It's always been and will most likely always be the case. However, it is those rabid rejections that the author can eventually rejoice in when he or she is able to flaunt them as a lack of editorial judgment following their book's success. For instance, some years ago, this rejection was sent to a struggling author about his submission:

"I haven't really the foggiest idea about what the man is trying to say. It is about a group of American Army officers stationed in Italy, sleeping (but not interestingly) with each others' wives and Italian prostitutes, and talking unintelligibly to one another. Apparently, the author intends it to be funny — possibly even satire — but it is really not funny on any intellectual level. He has two devices, both bad, which he works constantly… This, as you may imagine, constitutes a continual and unmitigated bore."

Paint this arrogant editor's face red, since the author was none other than Joseph Heller. The book — "Catch 22." Perhaps a simple, "Sorry, not right for us," would have kept this scathing rejection from being repeated all these years later.

Fortunately, Heller persevered and was able to break through, in spite of the attempted wall built by someone who couldn't see the gem the novel was and still is today. Catch 22 was published in 1961 and one wonders how many other books were stopped in their tracks by someone who simply didn't have the vision or creativity to bring the work to print.

Today, publishers are painting a gloomy picture for their industry, which doesn't bode well for the struggling writer, especially if they have something important to say. Booksellers are trying to drive sales by bringing gewgaws and cafes into the arena of books. Apparently, the writings of Atwood, Byatt, Grisham, Irving, King and a long line of others, isn't enough to bring readers into bookstores. However, these same booksellers are focusing on July '05, eagerly anticipating the sixth coming of Harry — "Harry Potter," that is.

Midnight parties for the laydown date are being planned, while events coordinators' have been instructed to rally their staff to pull out all stops in an effort to compete with each other for sales of J.K. Rowling's "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince," a book that is being protected as if it were the Christ-child itself. It's all about creating a buzz of financial forecasts in order to secure monetary redemption for booksellers while using the media as its voice box. The booksellers' success for this financial quarter is dependant on the resurrection of Harry.

Hey, I'm all for getting excited about books and reading. Indeed, let's celebrate, especially when it causes kids to turn off their Play Station long enough to pick up a book and devour it from cover to cover. Harry may just be the saving grace for the future of reading. And I couldn't be happier for J. K. Rowling, the author who was close to destitute before Harry was a household name.

I wish this kind of success for all creative people. However, there are many other authors out there with books that deserve to be read and are not given a venue to do so simply because publishers don't want to risk their dollars on something iffy. This says more about the milquetoast publishers and less about the talented, determined writers.

However, one wonders what on earth Random House was thinking when it gave Charles Frazier an eight million dollar advance for his next novel, following the success of his National Book Award winner Cold Mountain, as was reported three years ago. True, Cold Mountain sold very well and was made into a movie starring heavyweights Jude Law, Nicole Kidman and Renee Zellweger.

But eight million dollars?

And, not only that, but according to a New York Times article from April 8th, 2002, the advance was based on a one page outline with the book being scheduled for publication in 2005.
And here it is 2005.

Eight million dollars would be enough to inspire writer's block and little else. But not wanting to be cynical, I checked Amazon.com to see if there was even a hint of Frazier's book being released any time soon, and found that I could purchase "Cold Mountain" the hard cover, paper back, movie tie-in, screenplay and even a book titled "The Collected Songs of Cold Mountain," but as of this writing, nothing else by Charles Frazier is on the horizon.

Now, I'm not about to badger an author, since I have nothing but respect for the profession of writing, but my point is, how many other writers could have, should have, been given a piece of that very large pie while Frazier was shut away in his writer's shack pounding the keys to keep his agent salivating in anticipation.

Gloomy times for publishers, indeed. And nothing will change if they continue the path they are presently on.

There is often this conjecture that publishing houses entrust their submissions with enlightened editors who have their pulse on what the readers want. One can almost imagine these graying, bespectacled editors, hunkered over their desks, considering each manuscript with scrutiny when in reality most often the editor is an intern just out of college who hasn't lived long enough to appreciate writing that illuminates the mind or influences a revolution.

No doubt, many rejections are deserved for one reason or another. But then again, many of those books that do make it to publication are less than worthy. So, what does this tell the writer?
First, do not give up.

Second, become your own advocate.

Big publishing houses are beginning to lose their cache as more and more authors are learning how to break through the medium using creative devices to publish and promote their book. From self-publishing, print-on-demand and electronic publishing, the competition is going to be more fierce while readers will be the ones given the opportunity to reject or welcome a writer's work. It should also give the writer more reason to hammer away with passion, knowing that when an editor closes a door, there's a window somewhere wide open.

Imagine if H. G. Wells decided to give up when he received this comment in response to submitting "The Time Machine":

"It is not interesting enough for the general reader and not thorough enough for the scientific reader."

So, if you are a struggling writer, take heart. Remember that "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" was rejected by several publishers before finally being purchased and J. K. Rowling is now the ninth richest woman in the UK.

And take notice, because while the Harry hoopla is going on, having the publishing community's full attention, something else is occurring: Writers are beginning to make their own publishing success through unconventional means. Consider yourself warned.

Readers, writers, publishers: be ready for the next coming.

— C.I. Chattelle is a Book Publishing industry insider.


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A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: A_womon

Post Number: 1259
Registered: 05-2004

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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 01:44 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

CHRIS H! Thanks for posting this article---I NEEDED this!!
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Cynique
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Username: Cynique

Post Number: 2212
Registered: 01-2004

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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 04:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Reminds me of a while back when I submitted a manuscript to a publishing house. The editor wrote back patronizingly telling me that my writing showed promise but that there was just no market in contemporary fiction for a novel that was for and about "Negroes". A few of years later, Terri MacMillan made a lot of short-sighted white editors eat their words when "Waiting To Exhale" became a blockbuster best-seller.
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Sisg
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Sisg

Post Number: 177
Registered: 01-2004

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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 04:36 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

yeah, thanks Chris. A good and timely article. heyyyyyy A_womon, missed you! AWWWWWWWSHADUP! missed that too!

I hear ya Cynique, so? what do they know?
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A_womon
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Post Number: 1260
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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 05:00 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Sisg! HAHAHA!! I missed yall too!!!
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A_womon
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
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Post Number: 1261
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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 05:03 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HI THUMMMPEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR!!
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Cynique
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Username: Cynique

Post Number: 2213
Registered: 01-2004

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Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 02:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ABM, Sowell said that the "red neck" culture originated in a certain segment of the population of white America, and he did acknowledge that it is still around today, presumably in the places that you named. He also said that "red neckism" was brought to this country by certain European colonists. His point was that the term "red neck" can be defined as a pattern of behavior and a way of life that can exist in a segment of any race, in any place. And if you think that what Sowell said about red neckism existing in the ghettos is in error, then you are in denial. Why do you think the black community, itself, continues to bewail the negative, low-life element in the inner cities. And the "they" who condone and call for the preservation of the ghetto gangsta culture as it is represented in Rap, are the people who perpetuate it for profit and gain. I consider Thomas Sowell to be one of the more original thinkers around today. He rankles his detractors because the constructive criticism he voices goes against the grain of those spokesmen who advance the same ol standby arguments that excuse rather than solve problems. I welcome this different point of view as espoused by Sowell.
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Cynique
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Post Number: 2214
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Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 02:32 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oops posted this under the wrong heading. I moved it to the right one.
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Abm
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Post Number: 2465
Registered: 04-2004

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Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 02:43 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique,

About Sowell...
I only read what was posted on the thread. And I responded to that, which included...

"Today, the last remnants of that culture can still be found in the worst of the black ghettos, whether in the North or the South, for the ghettos of the North were settled by blacks from the South."

I interpreted that to mean that Blacks are, by Sowell's definition/argument, the only remaining "rednecks". And THAT I patently disagree with.

and he said "The counterproductive and self-destructive culture of black rednecks in today's ghettos is regarded by many as the only "authentic" black culture--and, for that reason, something not to be tampered with. Their talk, their attitudes, and their behavior are regarded as sacrosanct..."

And my response is by WHOSE perspective is he judging? If you look from the perspective of Whites who have historically been profoundly ignorant of most issues concerning AA's, I'd agree he's largely correct. But that not the opinion of all, or even most, Blacks that I know. Must of us know that that is largely what Whites wants to think of Blacks so that they can feel justified in maintaining the racial/wealth/power status quo.

I didn't read more than that because Sowell rant is as boring as it is predictable. But if you can think of anything you think that (effectively) support Sowell (and I'll presume to be your) position, please present them.


About your book submittal...
You probably made the mistake of using Standard American English in your novel. Had you gone the ebonics-strewn sistahgurl route, you might have gotten published and optioned for a movie.


All,

I remember hearing or reading somewhere there’s some hip-hop groupie who scored a $7M advance for penning a tell-all book on the music industry.

This chick is basically getting a 7-figure payoff to saying she knocked-boots with P. Diddy and Missy Elliot while Russell Simmons watched.

And THAT, My Dear People, is the state of the contemporary book biz!
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Cynique
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Post Number: 2216
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Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 03:32 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, Folks, you just have to be discerning enough to distill from what Sowell says, the things with which you agree. And I notice how the people who disagree with Sowell are just as flawed as he is. They are never objective, but are up arms because he gets disgusted with his race for not living up to its potential. The truth hurts and rather than concede certain points to Sowell, his opponents will try and debate him, using specious arguments to score points. But the truth stands. If Sowell does, indeed, hate his race, maybe it's because he knows it can do better if it would divest itself of the problems it brings upon itself. Sowell always struck me as being a kind of a sad guy. I think he's frustrated because certain black leaders with self-serving agendas are holding the race back because they have a vested interest in making themselves spokesmen for black grievances. Where would Jesse Jackson be, if black folks got it together? Who would be hanging on every word the came out of the mouth of Cornel West if black folks thought for themselves.
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Abm
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Post Number: 2471
Registered: 04-2004

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Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 09:58 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique,

I'm not sure to whom you refer to regarding Sowell's opponents. But I for one could easily debate him without having to tow the line of his liberal detractors.

I might agree with PARTS of Sowell's premises. It's the conclusions he draws that are faulty.

His arguments are every bit as flawed as those he disagree with. The difference is he says things that are congruent with those in power, thus appearing more plausible.

The truth is there have been INNUMERABLE attempts by Blacks to become independent and self-supporting, self-educated, etc. as Sowell purports to desire. And there have been as many potent attempts to subvert our every effort.

And our being the most visible of minorities has contributed to our woes. Most Blacks can't disquise their race. Most of us can't pretend to be Greek or Italians like certain others can feign and just fit into White society.

We're far fewer in number, thus our political influence has been profoundly constricted. And we are the 'least' White looking people. So it's has been easy to rally Whites against us, simply by appealing to their most irrational hatred/fears/ignorance of us.

Yet Sowell conveniently leaves such things out of his self-reliance dogma. To him, its as if slavery, KKK, Jim Crow, Separate but equal, redlining, etc. never happened.

And lemme ask him (and you) this question: WHO other than African Americans have survived the specific horror that we've endured?

No one!

So who's really to know where we should go and how long it should take for us to get there.

Yet foks carry on as if none of it meant anything. As if every slate is wiped clean with the arrival of a new generation ala Russian immigrants or something.

But who were our fathers, mothers, grandparent, etc.? What did they endure HERE in the US? Doesn't any of that even matter?

I'm as inclined to disagree with as much of what Jackson says as I am what Sowell says. They're both propagandists to me.

But as least Jesse has had the stones to take a very public stand for what he believes. He could have EASILY had his head blown off like his fabled mentor.

Sowell's, however, been protected by massah. Though that's not really necessary. Because when was the last time Blacks have killed sell-outs amongst us?

You'd probably have to refer back to slavery for the answer to that question.


PS: Do you know if Emmitt Til were alive, he'd just be eligible to draw Social Security?
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Cynique
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Post Number: 2218
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Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 12:56 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ABM, you, like Sowell, define problems. So do you think solutions exist? Can the white power structure be coerced into reform, or will the black minority unite and mobilize for an armed revolution? Or, will the revolution actually consist of black factions shooting down each other's arguments, everybody just marching in place. Who knows? The Bulls got their asses kicked by the Wizards today. So for the moment, I have other things to worry about.
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Abm
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Post Number: 2473
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Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 08:44 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique,

I imagine an effective strategy would require some of ALL you suggest. We have many problems of many contours, textures and colors.

Some of our problems are internal. Some are external. Some are a combination of both. And some we’ve yet to identify, much less cure.

Thus, there’s no single silver bullet to kill off the demons we confront.

So we’ll have to fight and persuade ‘the power’ and our own selves (perhaps as we are doing here) to divine methods to move forward.
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Abm
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Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 08:46 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique,

Have you EVER heard/read Sowell present a book or essay that thoroughly criticizes ALL (not just liberal, hippie) White people?
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Abm
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Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 08:47 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...If you have, PULEASE direct me to it!
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Mahoganyanais
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Post Number: 255
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Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 10:57 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Speaking of rednecks, here's a joke:

Why would CSI:Redneck flop as a TV series?

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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.


A: Because there would be no dental evidence, and the DNA would all be the
same...
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cynique
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Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 12:50 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No, ABM, my exposure to Sowell is mostly visual. On every interview I've seen him in, he is morose and intense, but extremely articulate and passionate about his beliefs. He is, however, inclined to be theorhetical. I never heard, but I don't think he'd be soneone in favor of the trend toward theocracy that the religious right is advancing. I'm also inclined to believe that he'd consider the Iraq invasion a technical mistake. So I wouldn't consider him a neocon. Where black folks are concerned, Sowell is a visionary; but his problem is that his vision is one of Utopia. He wants everything to be ideal. If Sowell was white, he'd probably be a little more flexible because he could then be benign and patronizing instead of hyper-critical and obstinate. But I think his views have a place in the dialogue about race. In the end, the issue of race will probably not be resolved by liberals or conservatives, but by a natural selection that will create a species best equipped to survive in a changing enviromnent.( And that sound you hear is Kola screaming and beating her breasts.)


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cynique
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Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 01:30 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

MAH, that red neck joke was funny. Certainly a welcome relief from all of this "creased-brow" pondering.
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abm
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Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 01:44 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cinny,

I think you give ol' Sowell mo' credit than he deserves. But I'm tired of squabbling about bootlickin' kneegrows. So I'll leave that be.

Don't worry 'bout Kola. My music can soothe the most savage beast.

Hehe!
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Yvettep
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Posted on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 11:14 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique, I have always been intrigued by speculation about what the next phases in our planetary evolution will look like. Partly I guess it's my own nerdishness. But I just find sci-fi and other genres with this as the subject matter fascinating.

I agree that evolution is inevitible. I do not think the "ultimate" in this process, however, will include us humans at all--of any "race." There are "post-humanists" who actually look forward to that type of scenario--like downloading brains into computers and whatnot. And then there is the not-so-absurd notion of human-other species hybrids and chimeras.

As one example, I ran across this artist's work (http://www.patriciapiccinini.net/wearefamily/index.php?sec=yf&pg=01) the other day.


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Yvettep
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Posted on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 11:15 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, I posted this in the wrong place--SORRY!
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Cynique
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Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 01:47 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know whether you're putting me on or not, Yvettep, but that Kolaesque picture cracked me up. I would think if it was possible for a dog sperm to successfully fertilize a human egg, that their offspring would be barren like mules who are the spawn of a horse and donkey, and that this regressive species would hopefully not multiply. They look too retarded to be members of a super race. But who knows what genetic technology lies ahead? Glad I ain't gonna be around to see the possibility of bestiality becoming the vogue.
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Yvettep
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Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 12:21 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique--First of all Happy Mothers' Day! (And to all the other moms out there, too.)

And no, I'm not putting you on at all. The picture is just one artists' imagination. There is a whole subgenre of art that merges science--especially genetics--and modern art that is just totally fascinating to me. I went to see an exhibit last year--Gene(sis) http://www.gene-sis.net/home.html --that included, for example, photographs of the green glow in the dark bunny and work by performance artists Critical Art Ensemble.

One thing I find interesting, and that intersects with a lot of conversation on this board, is that this type of work confronts us with how/why/what we call "beautiful." At that exhibit some of the works were at first glance "ugly"--yet I could not keep my eyes off of them. On second pass thru some of the exhibits, some work became "compelling" without the initial revulsion I felt. Then in a couple of cases, on third or fourth passes the work actually became "beautiful" to me.

What is going on here? Is it just a kind of interest or fascination? Is it a kind of fetish? Just a curiousity with the "different"?

I don't know. But I think my reaction is part of a continuum that includes how people react to "real" humans--for example reactions to very dark skinned people or albinos, or to what some might normally consider "beautiful" but out of its usual context (e.g., full round breasts on a man, intricate artwork rendered on someone's back...)

As far as "super races" bacteria were here long before us, are the most populous species on earth, can survive almost in any environment, can bring even the strongest human down--thus they are the likeliest species to be a "super race" to survive the next planetary cataclysm...
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Yvettep
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Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 02:34 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I feel bad, Chrishayden, for continuing to post here off topic. To make up for it (or at leat to contribute something halfway relevant!) I want to say that I always appreciate this kind of advice and stories about success following rejection by others.

As an "advanced" graduate student I am in a strange place right now with regards to my writing and attempts at getting published. Up to now, profs have had to accept my seminar papers and they have had to read them. They can grade me any way they liked, but in large part they were comparing me to other students who they were currently tteaching or had taught in the past.

As a result of this kind of feedback over the years, I think I have gotten a pretty "bloated" picture of my talents and skills. Now I am competing with--not just graduate students trying to break into print--but assistant profs trying to get tenure, full profs continuing with their publishing careers, and all manner of policy makers/idependent researchers/others who are increasingly seeing publishing as an appropriate means to dissemenate their work and ideas.

I have only had one journal rejection so far, but I'll tell you it was rough!

What helped me was talking to faculty I respect and admire and hearing them tell of their first rejections. In fact some of them published tales of their early rejections in a special issue of one of our discipline's journals a few years ago.

To me, that takes a lot of courage to share failures with others. I don't know if it ever really gets "easy" to deal with rejection--even after you've become successful.

I don't know if there is anything that can be done in graduate education to help us "learn" how to deal with rejection. One thing that has helped me is to become a journal reviewer myself. As I've evaluated articles, often by professors with a lot more experience than I have, I have come to see that "perfectionism" is both elusive and a waste of time and energy.

Part of the key, I think, is to train yourself to keep getting stuff out the door, recovering quickly after both setbacks and triumphs. Kind of like getting a high overall field goal percentage in basketball by throwing up more and more basket attempts...
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique

Post Number: 2237
Registered: 01-2004

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Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 03:45 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yvettep, I agree that the bizarre and the exotic are very compelling. That's why freak shows are such an attraction and odd-looking people so intriguing. As for a super race, they say that cockroaches have been and always will be around. Too bad these critters never figured out how to use tools.
Thanks for the Mother's day greeting. You have a nice one, too.
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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep

Post Number: 226
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Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 03:59 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Too bad these critters never figured out how to use tools.

Cynique, you've perhaps never seen Miami or Houston cockroaches. LOL
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West_africa
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Username: West_africa

Post Number: 47
Registered: 08-2005

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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 12:38 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Why is Harry Potter (seemingly) so popular?

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Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep

Post Number: 678
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 03:33 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

>Why is Harry Potter (seemingly) so popular?

Know what freaked me OUT? Did you see the movie "Sin City" and the Harry Potter character in that? What was *that* about?

(Still having nightmares following that movie...)
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Cynique
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Username: Cynique

Post Number: 2493
Registered: 01-2004

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Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 11:23 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Harry Potter's popularity stems from its author successfully utilizing an age-old plot formula: pitting good against evil within the context of magic - as in fairy tales. Get it?

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