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Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 01:35 am: | 
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Hello All,
I'm ticked about this mess with these silly people and I'm ready to move on.
October 28, 2003, Toni Morrison's new book, Love, will be in bookstores all over the country. I can't tell you all how much I'm looking forward to it. I know several people had trouble reading Paradise. Just because a book is literature, does that necessarily mean that it should be hard to read. I ask this question every time I begin a Toni Morrison book.
Every few years when Morrison publishes a book it seems people who discover the pleasure of reading chooses her latest book to read first. I strongly recommend for those who fit that bill to read Song of Solomon, Tar Baby, or Sula first. Take your time. |
Cmack
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 09:43 am: |
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Thumper,
Thanks for bringing back the books!!!!
Karibu Book Store in the Washington, Dc area is hosting a reading and signing of her new book on November 14. The tickets are 25.00 but you get a customized autographed bookplate and a copy of Love. For all the folks that live in the DC area who might be interested.
Peace. |
Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 10:46 am: |
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Hello All,
Cmack: Thanks for the Morrison signing date. I wish I could be there.
We have some new reviews up. Check out the homepage, http://aalbc.com and click on the links. I didn't really cut into anybody in this latest round. I can't say the same thing about the next one though. *smile* |
yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 01:00 pm: |
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Hmmmmm.....
I think the difficulty comes from the richest of the quite layered stories Morrison constructs. For example, in Paradise, there is sooooo much to think about and there are many subplots which contribute to the main plot....this is quite reminiscient to classical literature, where the plots are very complex.
The other thing is that Morrison requires here readers to think, which is something many folk who don't necessarily respect literature as intellectual work can not appreciate and don't look for literature to do.
And finally, Morrison also requires folk to address issues that many of us don't want to address, like slavery, intra-racial racism and prejudice, .......
BTW, i would add that these remarks are also indicative of the differences between "literary" and "commercial" literature. |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 01:21 pm: |
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Yukio:
I'd say the same thing about John Edgar Wideman--yet I can get into his books and can't get into Morrison at all.
I have tried to read Beloved several times and always wind up giving in--it isn't that I don't understand her, she just ain't doing nothing for me.
There is obviously something here. And it ain't sexual--I enjoyed those arcane Alice Walker books--what were they, Possessing the Secret of Joy and Temple of My Familiar--they were almost like automatic writing. And I loved BeBop ReBop by Xam Wilson Cartier, even though it was like reading the densest poetry.
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Daniecia
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 02:09 pm: |
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As I said yesterday, people shoudl read THE KNOWN WORLD.
That book will have you with your mouth open it's so good. It's also the most original story I've read about slavery in a very long time and it was so gripping I couldn't put it down.
Excellent book! THE KNOWN WORLD.
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Yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 04:30 pm: |
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Chris Hayden:
You're too self-conscious about this sexism thing, it seems. You've brought it up even before you've given me the chance to respond.
BTW, I don't think you meant to say "sexual," which pertains to copulation, while "sexism" pertains to inequality based on sex, ie our biological, chemical and physiological differences.
Also, you sound like one of those white folk who claim they can not be racist because they grew up with black people and they have black friends. Arguing by analogy is always difficult, but i do get your point. We have no disagreements.
With that said, i would suggest that you read Morrison's novels just because she is one of OUR literary geniuses. In addition, it has been suggested that Wideman's and Morrison's novels are intellectually engaging eachother. Consider that their literature span several generations, ie slavery, migration, urbanization, etc.. and especially both are masters of the community narrative. They also address gender: Morrison portrays a variety of African American women's perspectives and Wideman a variety of African American male perspectives, though both have had main man and female characters. Hmmmmm....maybe not. It is debateable if the female character in Two Cities could be considered a main character.
Lets read or reread something together....one of Morrison's or Wideman's.
All:
Anyone read any of J.M. Coetzee's novels? He is a white south african who has recently won the Nobel Prize in Literature.
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Mr. Immigrant
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 04:40 pm: |
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Yes,
First Nadine Gordimer a white woman in South Africa gets the Nobel prize for her patronizing Driving Miss Daisy tomes and now J.M. Coetzee a white man from South Africa gets the honor.
Disgusting considering that many of South Africa's most gifted authors are real Africans and hardly noticed in America.
Try reading "The Beautiful Ones Are Not Yet Born". You would be better off.
Coetzee is the typical white man with a heart of gold and "sympathy" for the poor, undernourished blacks that his (WHITE LOVE) validates via pity from his ivory towered perch.
Both are rubbish and they're no Africans.
Where is Miss Cynique, BTW? I wish she would not shut herself up, although I was on Kola's side in the recent battles, because I identify greatly with the "Bola", it's no need for Cynique to be silenced. I miss Cynique's mouth. I always thought of her as Kola's mother to be quite honest. They were a lively pair, mother hen and breast chick.
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Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 08:06 pm: |
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I don't know how you've missed me, Mr. Immigrant, I've been very visable on the board. And because you are so sincere in your concern about my whereabouts, I will forgive you for casting me as Kola Boof's mother. I have it on very good authority that Ms Boof is in her forties, and I'm ain't quite old enough to be her mommy. LOL |
lurkerette
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 08:09 am: |
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The beautyful (sp!) ones are not yet born is not by a South African. The author Ayi Kwei Armah is from Ghana. I'm pretty sure Zakes Mda is from SA though and you might want to check him out.
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Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 11:18 am: |
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Yukio:
Just grabbing on to something that gets a rise out of you really--
How about we start out with something short by Wideman? There is this short story, the Silence of Thelonius Monk. Do you have access to it?
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Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 12:26 am: |
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Hello All,
Chris and Yukio: Sorry to be meddling in yawl's conversation, but where is The Silence of Thelonius Monk? Was it in a short story collection? |
Thumper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 12:28 am: |
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Hello All,
Yukio: I would consider the female character in Two Cities to be the main character. Do you have a different opinion? |
steve
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 01:05 am: |
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Yukio,
Coetzee is considered "heir to the traditions of Franz Kafka and Samuel Beckett." According to a recent piece in the NY Times, he "has often used his country's apartheid system and its post-apartheid transition to mirror the bleakness of the human condition." So the description of him as a purveyor of "white love" is actually quite bizarre. "Disgrace," the only one of his I've read, is a very strange novel which I read about in an interview with saxophonist Michael Brecker. I didn't like Disgrace. It depicts the gang rape of a white female farmer, the kind of violent attack which occurred in neighboring Zimbabwe under the encouragement of Robert Mugabe. The novel is very controversial and Coetzee was accused of sensationalizing South Africa's violence during a crucial period in the country's history. Zakes Mda's "Ways of Dying" also contains a lot of violence, although its main characters, Toloki and Noria, although extremely poor, are really lovely people. Mda's "The Heart of Redness" is set in the same Eastern Cape location as "Disgrace," and it seems very Achebe-like in its warm depiction of contemporary village life. There's a parallel story set in the nineteeth century based on the amaXhosa cattle killing, an event which also inspired a John Edgar Wideman novel of the same name (I have a copy but haven't read yet). I read Ayi Kwei Armah's "The Beautyful Ones are Not Yet Born" a long time ago (it, too, was recommended by a saxophonist - Branford Marsalis - who used it as the title of one of his CDs), but at the time, I felt it was too specific to the situation in Ghana for me to really appreciate. It's about a man with absurdly high ideals who's surrounded by a corrupt and decadent society. I'd like to read it again sometime.
If you ever do read them, here's a comparative study of Mda's and Coetzee's novels:
http://webs.wofford.edu/mandlovenb/SAfrica/content/redness.html
steve |
Mr. Immigrant
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 05:21 pm: |
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Hey Steve,
I spoke for Black Africans when I said that COetzee and Nadine Gordimer mean nothing to us and are not really Africans.
You being a white man see it differently. Still the truth is they mean no more to the storytelling process, which is oral first, of African literature than most white jazz men mean to authentic jazz.
I did not say that Ayi Kwei Armah was from South Africa.
I make the point that there are many Black skinned Africans far more deserving of the Nobel Prize, if for sheer heroic life's effort to write at all, than Gordimer and Coetzee do from their protected ivory towers. They don't speak for us!
Their work is primarily to make white people feel better about their guilt. I wish Bola was here to be even more specific, perhaps Cynique will help me be understood as I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings.
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Yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 07:25 pm: |
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CH:
I haven't heard of the essay, but where can it be found?
Thumper:
I do think she was the main character, but i'll need to reread it to be sure.
Steve:
Thanks for the link. I've read Ways of Dying and will read Heart of Redness soon. |
Cynique
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 12:11 am: |
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Mr. Immigrant says:
...their work is primarily to make white people feel better about their guilt. I wish Bola was here to be even more specific, perhaps Cynique will help me be understood as I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings.
Cynique responds:
Yeah, right, I'm really the one to call on if you don't want anyone's feelings hurt. LOL. Seriously, You made your point adequately. I have nothing to add. Or do I think Steve was defending Coetzee. He was just doing what he usually does which is to supply additional information so an informed conclusion can be reached.
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yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 04:56 pm: |
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Chris hayden anf Thumper:
I think i have the citation; i'll try and retrieve it today and i'll comment tomorrow; thumper, here's the citation:
John Edgar Wideman issue, Callaloo, vol 22, no. 3.summer 1999, Special issue: John Edgar Wideman: The European Response (Summer 1999)pp. 550-557. |
Daniecia
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 05:34 pm: |
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Hi all,
I'm looking forward to Terry McMillan's new one THE INTERRUPTION OF EVERYTHING and I heard that Gloria Naylor is going to surprise us and come out next summer with a new tome!
YAAAAY! I love Gloria.
I'm also looking forward to "Flesh and the Devil" this February!! Yaaaay!
Here's a link detailing the book:
http://flesh.5u.com
Alice Walker's new novel is called "Now Is the Time To Open Your Heart". That's not til April, though, according to Random House.
Once again...read THE KNOWN WORLD. That's a truly great novel and worth every penny.
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Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 10:02 am: |
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Yukio and Thumper:
Sorry for taking so long in getting back. Yukio indeed has the correct cite for that piece. |
yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 01:41 pm: |
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CH and Thumper:
i have the story and will comment tomorrow. As usual, i love Wideman's language and especially the internal dialogue, but i have yet to really internalize the story...one because i just skimmed it and two, because as usual, Wideman does so much.... |
yukio
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 06:03 pm: |
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CH and Thumper:
Hmmmm...what can i say about Wideman's love letter?
As usual, Wideman's language is so lyrical and confrontationally masculine. The narrative, if one can call it that, seems to be a reflection, as the stories suggests, during silence, which functions as communicator, catalystizing memories of love, pain, and other emotions.
Monk's silence with his colleague KC and the butcher, if i recall correctly, and finally to wideman's "invisible man" is authoritative and patient, and at the same time, his music reflects the emotions, ie sound track, of a moment or the moment that Silence, not necessarily Monk's silence, brings forth. Monk's silence and Silence, therefore, reinforce eachother; both illuminating the "invisible man."
The story reads, i think, like a bout, as the opening paragraph introduces, between lovers: the protagonist and the women(the poets as lovers in a bout) and the protagonist and Monk's music/Monk(who i think i representative a LOVE as teach, albeit of pain or joy).
These are my immediate remarks..... |
Chris Hayden
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 12:21 pm: |
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Yukio:
Found this one. While we are still on it did you also read his essay in there (right before "The Silence of Thelonious Monk" titled "In Praise of Silence"?
It is odd to me that Wideman writes so much about silence as his writing is anything but silent. It yells, it hollers, it preaches it pontificates it instructs it goes on and on in long sentences.
Why do you think he has made this (silence) a theme?
Could it be that he isn't speaking of his writing per se but in the periods between the writing--like the spaces in Monk's piano playing?
I mean he gives few interviews. Doesn't make the rounds of the talk shows. There was that long period between The Lynchers and Damballah when he wrote (or at least published) nothing.
He doesn't have a website. There was the time he retreated to Wyoming. He writes of retreating to Maine every year--he needs the silence the isolation to concentrate, to think?
Some have accused Wideman of over-writing. What do you think of this accusation? |
Mecca
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 04:53 pm: |
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Thanks for the heads-up Mr. I pertaining to "The Beautiful..." I just added that to my wish list. I read 2000 Seasons years ago and loved it. I dont know if it was mentioned but "So Long a Letter" by Mariama Ba is also excellent. |
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