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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 7102
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2008 - 10:52 am: | 
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In his latest novel, Slumberland--which is gonna make some people mad--Paul's character D.J. Darky goes off for a couple of pages on Wynton Marsalis, calling him, and I paraphrase "Somebody nobody ever plays"
Oooh! Don't be so mean.
I have heard hardcore jazz fans diss Marsalis, too.
What do you think about Marsalis? Is he all that? |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3251
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2008 - 12:55 pm: |
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Great player but has some serious PR problems. I love his first three recordings, ending with Black Codes From The Underground. However, ever since he hooked up with Stanley Crouch, creative wise, it's been a ride down hill. Wynton is dedicated to very conservative renditions and interpretations of the music of Duke Ellington, Monk, Louis Armstrong, Fletcher Henderson, et al. Nothing wrong with that per se but his ongoing music projects are caught in a time warp. Unlike his brother Bradford (who is very outside the stale and predictable), Wynton is quite happy to continue playing and writing music that has been done. Nothing new nor innovative comes from his horn. Not to mention what many people see as an overbearing obnoxiously arrogant and self righteously intolerant persona. I've heard some blistering harsh comments about the Wynton, many that stem solely from his personality. |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1383
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2008 - 02:52 pm: |
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NTFS, do you really believe Wynton has serious PR problems? I would think the opposite is true.
While I like Jazz and go hear a few folks play from time to time. Speaking from the persepective of a slightly more than "casual observer", Wynton has an excellent reputation. He is the go to guy when it comes to Jazz.
His comes across on camera as personable and a great officinado and perfromer of Jazz. Here in NY his is the artistic director (I could be wrong about the exact title) of Jazz at Lincoln Center.
Now those "in the know" may have a completely different and more accurate perception, but they are in such a relative minority that they are insiginifcant -- at least as far as Marsalis' PR.
That said, I don't recall anyone putting Wynton in the same class with any of the great Jazz musicians Monk, Parker, Davis, et al. I don't think that is a function of PR, but perhaps, as you suggested Wynton's a lack of creativity...
By the way, who are the great contemporary Jazz musicians? The ones who will go down in history like an Armstong or Roach?
Does the list include Herbie Hancock? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 7111
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 10:17 am: |
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Wynton is dedicated to very conservative renditions and interpretations of the music of Duke Ellington, Monk, Louis Armstrong, Fletcher Henderson, et al. Nothing wrong with that per se but his ongoing music projects are caught in a time warp.
(This is it.
I dig Wynton's dedication to the tradition of jazz. It needs to be preserved.
On the other hand, I hate to see a young man not blazing new trails and branching out.
It was like this young white poetry editor I was talking to who told me his favorite poet was Robert Frost.
I knew he was a loser.
Linking up with Stanley Crotch was the kiss of death. He needs to drop that zero and make like a hero) |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12397
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 04:47 pm: |
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To me, Wynton always came across as smug and self important. His compositions, while technically brilliant, lack soul. |
Mike_e
Regular Poster
Username: Mike_e
Post Number: 30
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 03:37 am: |
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Outside of his Crescent City Christmas album very little by Wynton has blown me away in a long time. I liked his first couple of albums, including the classical stuff, but his music for the last 15 years leaves me cold. when he started denigrating his earlier music I just about had had enough. I just got through listening to his most recent cd & must admit it wasn't too bad but its nothing I'm going to be listening to again. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 3063
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 11:34 am: |
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I agree with what many have said here. Wynton is a superb technician, and has been a wonderful "public face" for jazz. His educational books, CDs and other programs for children have been without peers. I have his entire "Standard Time" series and would recommend it to anyone who wants a sampling of jazz history. His classical music work is masterful and impressive. His melding of classical and jazz long forms is impressive as well.
But he has lacked a certain passion and innovativeness that you'd expect of someone with so much obvious talent. As to the critique that no one "plays him," I do not know enough about the contemporary, on-the-ground jazz scene to judge but offhand I can think of no Wynton piece that is already or seems destined to be a standard that is played by everyone.
Rarely does someone start out technically perfect, then transform to add passion and risk-taking. It seems it usually happens the other way around. But I keep buying him, because I guess I hope that it will be possible. I get the sense that he still feels he has something to prove, to somebody. Maybe if/when he no longer feels that way he'll allow himself to be a little more free-wheeling. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3271
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 05:25 am: |
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"NTFS, do you really believe Wynton has serious PR problems? I would think the opposite is true."
No doubt. Bro Troy, yes, Wynton does have a cult following. But that is the tip of the iceberg. I know of many hard core music fans who have harsh and not so flattering comments about Wynton's music and his personality. I could not make this up. I can reference you to the All About Jazz music forum (absolutely fantastic site for jazz lovers) and you can read the comments about Wynton and his music. Many recognize his technical facility for playing and his contributions to educating the general public about jazz and its wonderful history. This is not in dispute. The issues and criticism stem from his obsession with narrow neo-traditionalism and his refusal to create music that is not simply renditions and recantations of other artists (Ellington, Monk, Basie, Armstrong, et al).
"While I like Jazz and go hear a few folks play from time to time. Speaking from the persepective of a slightly more than "casual observer", Wynton has an excellent reputation. He is the go to guy when it comes to Jazz."
Uhhhhhh....Troy, no disrespect, but if you think Wynton is the "go to guy for jazz", well, it sounds like you must have an extremely limited understanding and knowledge of jazz. I can fill this board up with players who are blazing trails and producing some very creative and interesting music when compared to the stale and very predictable regurgitation's of Wynton.
"Now those "in the know" may have a completely different and more accurate perception, but they are in such a relative minority that they are insiginifcant -- at least as far as Marsalis' PR."
Ummmmm....wrong again. They are not a minority. At least not in the sense that you have suggested. Wynton does have the backing of some high profile and connected supporters but in the world everyday serious listeners, critics and jazz writers and fellow musicians, there is a mindset supplemented with opinions that do not support your claims. Case in point; I have four very serious hard core friends who live and breath this music. NONE ONE WOULD AGREE WITH YOU! In fact, Chris Albertson, a long established jazz critic and writer (he wrote the only definitive biography of Bessie Smith -awesome book) has never passed up the opportunity to harshly criticize Wynton Marsalis while recognizing and praising the music of his father (Ellis Marsalis) and brother Bradford. Now, I don't agree with everything he says about Wynton because he makes uncalled for personal attacks on the man. I see no need for that. But he, along with many other writers and listeners have all maintained unflattering remarks about Wynton, his music and his controversial handling of Jazz at Lincoln Center.
As I said before, I like Wynton's early Columbia recordings (Black Codes -From the Underground, The Majesty of the Blues, Wynton Marsalis and Think of One). He was very interesting and generated attention I thought was well deserved. But when he hooked up with Stanley Crouch, well....he's still good but very predictable and unflinching in his commitment to the early masters and not his own creativity and inventions. |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1421
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 05:34 pm: |
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NTFS, cool your jets dude (smile), when I wrote "He is the go to guy when it comes to Jazz" I meant when it comes to the public face of jazz, anytime someone needs a talking head on a documentary Wynton will be contacted. I was not trying to suggest that he was the most talented or creative performer or composer.
I still assert that those "in the know", the hardcore Jazz heads are in the minority: because they are.
The average person (not the folks who participate here) not only knows very little about jazz they don't really even like the music. But the average person WILL mostly likely have heard of Wynton Marsalis and probably won;t have a negative impression of him. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3282
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2008 - 09:24 pm: |
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"NTFS, cool your jets dude (smile),....."
Ha! Ha! Ha! No problem bro......
".... when I wrote "He is the go to guy when it comes to Jazz" I meant when it comes to the public face of jazz, anytime someone needs a talking head on a documentary Wynton will be contacted."
I can agree with that. But unfortunately, Wynton does not represent the more creative and exciting aspects of the music. As I stated before, it you are happy with neo-traditionalism and meticulous renditions of other peoples music, fine -he is the go to guy! |
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