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Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2798
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 02:54 pm: | 
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...but what about "postgenderism"?
"Postgenderism: Beyond the Gender Binary"
Abstract: Postgenderism is an extrapolation of ways that technology is eroding the biological, psychological and social role of gender, and an argument for why the erosion of binary gender will be liberatory. Postgenderists argue that gender is an arbitrary and unnecessary limitation on human potential, and foresee the elimination of involuntary biological and psychological gendering in the human species through the application of neurotechnology, biotechnology and reproductive technologies. Postgenderists contend that dyadic gender roles and sexual dimorphisms are generally to the detriment of individuals and society. Assisted reproduction will make it possible for individuals of any sex to reproduce in any combinations they choose, with or without “mothers” and “fathers,” and artificial wombs will make biological wombs unnecessary for reproduction. Greater biological fluidity and psychological androgyny will allow future persons to explore both masculine and feminine aspects of personality. Postgenderists do not call for the end of all gender traits, or universal androgyny, but rather that those traits become a matter of choice. Bodies and personalities in our postgender future will no longer be constrained and circumscribed by gendered traits, but enriched by their use in the palette of diverse self-expression.
Full papere as pdf available at http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/dvorsky20080320/ |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2799
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 02:57 pm: |
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A (slightly) more accessible blog post about the topic: http://sentientdevelopments.blogspot.com/2008/01/overcoming-gender.html |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6538
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 02:58 pm: |
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1970's claptrap, tossed on the garbage heap when women elected Ronald Reagan, George Bush I and George Bush II.
When the boogieman is out there (The Soviet Union, Black people, Islamofacists) they want their big strong daddy. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2800
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 10:04 am: |
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FYI, the authors of the piece are both male. |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 161
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 10:26 am: |
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LOLOLOLOL!
Glad to see you back around these parts, Dr. P. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2803
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 11:47 am: |
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Glad to be back, FK!  |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11995
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 12:53 pm: |
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Yes, Yvette, welcome back! I was wondering if you got lost in the shag of Nap town.  |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6545
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 02:41 pm: |
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FYI, the authors of the piece are both male.
(Males have produced more of this crap than females--the attempt, which started in the 70's to breed some sort of unisexual being has failed--
Women don't want them and most men don't want to be them. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12003
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 04:34 pm: |
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How do YOU know?? |
Libralind2
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 1036
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 06, 2008 - 09:50 pm: |
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Ummm Yvettep...?? What da HAIL are you talking about....???
LiLi..going to da corna to ponder |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2811
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 07, 2008 - 11:25 am: |
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LOL, LiLi. Hey, those were not my words--just quoting from the authors' abstract. You ponderin' about the academic mumbo-jumbo---er, I mean, jargon...or the content of the topic...or both?
For what it is worth, when I post on topics such as this, it is not just to thrill Cynique--who I know loves the whole "the future is now" theme(). I am interested in stories like this that push the boundaries of what we believe and know because I think it forces us to examine more mundane phenomenon more closely.
Like this whole "post--________" talk. We decry racism and sexism, and rightly so. Yet some of us are hesitant about--if not downright averse to--the idea of somehow "getting rid" of the concepts or realities of race and sex/gender.
If I ever teach a class about this one thing I plan to use are clips from one of the animated Batman series (Batman Returns, I think?) where young people were going "post-species" by incorporating aspects of animals--tails, horns, fur--permanently into their physical make-up. How can we use something "pretend" like that to think of human-nonhuman chimeras to cure illness? Animal to human organ transplantation? Even something like "animal rights" where nonhuman animals are deemed to be owed some things more usually and widely given to humans? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12019
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 07, 2008 - 01:35 pm: |
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And what better evidence that this exists than the transgendered male who is now pregnant! |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6559
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 07, 2008 - 02:23 pm: |
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Postgenderists argue that gender is an arbitrary and unnecessary limitation on human potential, and foresee the elimination of involuntary biological and psychological gendering in the human species through the application of neurotechnology, biotechnology and reproductive technologies.
(Millions--no, billions of years of evolution will be rendered null and void through technology. Is this a dream, or a nightmare?
Is everyone to have the "benefits" of these technologies? What about cost? You got folks who are balking at paying $3.50 for gas--how will they pay for this?
What about people who do not want to stand around with no gonads or ovaries? Will they be killed or forcibly spayed?
Once you have rendered one portion of the population a bunch of capons--much like I suppose the aliens in Close Encounters, will they be but victims for those who don't undergo the process?
It sounds like a wonderful matrix for tyranny--all the rulers keep their testosterone and estrogen, all the proles are deprived.
Postgenderists contend that dyadic gender roles and sexual dimorphisms are generally to the detriment of individuals and society
(Sounds to me like these guys just want to get out of paying child support or doing the dishes)
Assisted reproduction will make it possible for individuals of any sex to reproduce in any combinations they choose, with or without “mothers” and “fathers,” and artificial wombs will make biological wombs unnecessary for reproduction
(Never happen)
Greater biological fluidity and psychological androgyny will allow future persons to explore both masculine and feminine aspects of personality.
(One minute they say these aspects are artificial, the next they argue that we must go to great effort to dispose of them.
Again, what of those who do not want to be "liberated"?
Postgenderists do not call for the end of all gender traits, or universal androgyny, but rather that those traits become a matter of choice.
(Haven't they ever seen RuPaul or KD Laing?)
Bodies and personalities in our postgender future will no longer be constrained and circumscribed by gendered traits, but enriched by their use in the palette of diverse self-expression.
(I can't wait for their Post Gender wonderland--)
We decry racism and sexism, and rightly so. Yet some of us are hesitant about--if not downright averse to--the idea of somehow "getting rid" of the concepts or realities of race and sex/gender.
(It is because we cannot do it and remain human--maybe we cannot even maintain our civilization.
What if this means we have to give up all this and go back to living like people did thousands of years ago--gathering, hunting.
Since you are into movies, remember the Nutty Professor movie where Professor Klump, once deprived of the "Buddy" side of his personality was just a dumb shmoe?
Even something like "animal rights" where nonhuman animals are deemed to be owed some things more usually and widely given to humans?
(You need to start writing Sci Fi. Have you ever read anything by Charles Stross?)
And what better evidence that this exists than the transgendered male who is now pregnant!
(Excuse me folks. Time to take Granny to school again. The so called "male" who was a female before this kept all his/her female organs.
All "his/her" problems are in "it's" head.
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6560
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 07, 2008 - 02:24 pm: |
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Have you noticed that women's liberation has not been applied to the ruling class? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6561
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 07, 2008 - 02:30 pm: |
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I reject this on many grounds but mostly on grounds of truth.
Gender is only a problem to the few misfits who see a problem with it.
They see gender as a disease or a condition that should be rectified through radical means.
They should admit that they have the problem and end it all. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12022
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 07, 2008 - 02:45 pm: |
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Why do you think I referred to the impregnated person as "transgendered", you idiot. And how do you know where its problems are, chrishayden, if gender is superficial? STFU.
And the species doesn't need a gelding like you to defend it or decry what the future might hold. Time will bring change whether people want it or not. And believe me, any change in you would certainly represent an improvement. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2823
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 10:18 am: |
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Is everyone to have the "benefits" of these technologies? What about cost? You got folks who are balking at paying $3.50 for gas--how will they pay for this?
Chris, this aspect is a key one for many bioethicists. One thing you find with new technologies is that--if it fills some more universal psychological need--someone will find a way to fill the market for those with less money. Thus, for example, you have "shopping mall" cosmetic surgery outlets. These places advertise on local radio, have installment plans, and are often located in very accessible locations. THey are not as pricey as their "boutique" counterparts.
Of course one issue is, who are the physicians performing these surgeries for the masses? Are they safe and well-qualified? So far as even expensive surgeries have risks, are these "knock-off" places even riskier?
Then that does not even count the gray market for these kinds of services...
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