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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6408
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 10:59 am: | 
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The Huffington Post
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Breaking the Final Rule
Posted March 7, 2008 | 12:45 PM (EST)
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It will come as a surprise to many people that there are rules in politics. Most of those rules are unwritten and are based on common understandings, acceptable practices, and the best interest of the political party a candidate seeks to lead. One of those rules is this: Do not provide ammunition to the opposition party that can be used to destroy your party's nominee. This is a hyper-truth where the presidential contest is concerned.
By saying that only she and John McCain are qualified to lead the country, particularly in times of crisis, Hillary Clinton has broken that rule, severely damaged the Democratic candidate who may well be the party's nominee, and, perhaps most ominously, revealed the unlimited lengths to which she will go to achieve power. She has essentially said that the Democratic party deserves to lose unless it nominates her.
As a veteran of red telephone ads and "where's the beef" cleverness, I am keenly aware that sharp elbows get thrown by those trailing in the fourth quarter (and sometimes even earlier). "Politics ain't beanbag," is the old slogan. But that does not mean that it must also be rule-or-ruin, me-first-and-only-me, my way or the highway. That is not politics. That is raw, unrestrained ambition for power that cannot accept the will of the voters.
Senator Obama is right to say the issue is judgment not years in Washington. If Mrs. Clinton loses the nomination, her failure will be traced to the date she voted to empower George W. Bush to invade Iraq. That is not the kind of judgment, or wisdom, required by the leader answering the phone in the night. For her now to claim that Senator Obama is not qualified to answer the crisis phone is the height of irony if not chutzpah, and calls into question whether her primary loyalty is to the Democratic party and the nation or to her own ambition.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6752
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 05:33 pm: |
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You Barack Obama folks are so negative, jeez! What's wrong with you people?? The first viable woman candidate, the first viable Black male candidate...you'd THINK you people would be floating on cloud nine.
WTF!!
Maybe y'all need some sunshine or something, here:
That's right. Be happy!!!
Have a smiley face
Now say:
 Hill-a-ry! Hill-a-ry! Hill-a-ry!
Grrrrreat!
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10003
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 09:28 pm: |
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Chris,
If the Democrats throughout the nation were smart, they'd tell Hillary to go fuhk herself and nominate Obama. Because if Hillary is the nominee, not only will she get utterly SMASHED in the general election the Democratic Party as a whole will be damaged to the point it will totally loose control of the US Congress (again, something only the CLINTONS have managed to accomplish in the last 50 years). |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 728
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 08:52 am: |
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Gary Hart, Michael Dukakis, John Kerry, Al Gore,
Ted Kennedy, losers all. Is that a club Senator Obama really wants to be a member?
Since Jimmy Carter, we have had one Democrat president, Bill Clinton. Liberal, elistist intellectuals don't get elected to POTUS. The Clintons many say have co-opted the Republican model and that's why they win. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10009
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 01:28 pm: |
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I never heard of a Democratic (or even Republican) candidate arguing that the nominee of the opposing party is more qualified to be president another Democratic candidate. That's just dumb on so many levels.
Can you imagine how Clinton & Co would have responded to Obama asserting that McCain is more qualified to be president than Hillary?
They would have accused him of selfishly having blind political ambition, of trying to wreck the Democratic Party or even of being some sort of Democratic Party-busting Manchurian Candidate created and remote-controlled in secret by the GOP.
I guess Hillary doesn’t care that videos and sound bites of her declaring McCain is ready on day one to be president will most DEFINITELY and EFFECTIVELY appear on McCain campaign ads that will not only used against Obama if he were the nominee but even be effectively used against HER dumba$$ if she’s the nominee.
Because howtheHELL is Hillary going to beat a Republican opponent, especially a flagwaving warhero, that she's already proudly declared to QUALIFIED for the gig?
And now Clinton & Co. wants to include delegates from Florida and Michigan, states that willfully broke the rules that EVERYONE agreed to prior to start of the primaries?? What should the Democractic officials and voters (and other potential independent and Republican who are considering voting for the Democractic nominee) of the other 48 states & US territories make of some bvllshyt like that?
Really. The Dems need to take a very public stand against Clinton’s candidacy and nominate Obama, even if he’s destined to lose against McCain. Because what Hillary is pulling here is liable to cause damage to the Democratic Party that extends well BEYOND this Presidential election. |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 729
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 01:46 pm: |
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Do the Dems really want to lose another Presidential election because "Billary" pissed some people off? All this current childish name calling will be long forgotten by November. New scandals and outrages will have popped up by then.
The Clintons have not destroyed the Dem party. If anything, they have saved it from being completely irrelevant. The media and Obama supporters are underestimating the level of support for the Clintons.
Senator Obama for all his gifts is too similar to the other losing, liberal Dems and he'll never make it the WH playing Mr. Nice Guy. At least Hillary gives the Dems a fighting chance. She'll govern just slightly left of center.
How Senator Obama will govern should he win POTUS? He has already been painted as too liberal.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10010
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 02:03 pm: |
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Robynmarie,
How will Hillary govern if she's pissing off half of the people in her own party and there already are millions of other foks who have been hating her guts since her and Slick Dyck Bill traipsed their a$$es from out of Little Rock?
You're pretty dayam deluded if you think foks are going to forget what's been going down here. This chick promoted the OPPOSITION against someone of her own party.
Ain't NOBODY forgetting that anytime soon. And you better trust&believe the GOP is going to remind EVERYBODY about that.
And if you can't see and hear McCain airing commercials of her declaring McCain to be ready to to be president being effectively run against HER you OBVIOUSLY don't know jacksh*t about what's going down.
This election has profoundly proven there is NOT this overwhelming support of Hillary Clinton. Far from that. And that's INSPITE of her having every ADVANTAGE (e.g., name recognition, money, ex-President husband) at the start.
The polls 3 months ago had her winning the primaries by 20 points. Now she's behind in votes and delegates against someone MOST foks didn't even know 4 years and she has NO chance of winning sans some seriously malevolent BS going down between now and the Democratic Convention.
And lets not forget: The Clinton's totally LOST the Congress 2 year's into Bill's FIRST term. (That sh*t hadn't happened since a friggin' EISENHOWER was in office.) And the GOP totally dryfuhked him the next 6 years.
The strength of the Clintons has ALWAYS been grossly exaggerated. And Obama's rapid ascendency has PROVEN how innately WEAK they've always been.
Hillary Clinton got no dayam business being President. And God help ALL of us if she becomes such. |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 731
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 02:14 pm: |
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The people who will be the most pissed off with Billary are African Americans. Half of black voters may vote against Hillary. The other half will be loyal Dems.
And by the way, Senator Obama raised $55 million dollars in Feb, he has all the Union support and big name endorsements-and he still could not put her away.
What's up with that? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10013
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 02:28 pm: |
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Robynmarie,
First of all, if only half the Black voters vote for Hillary, she's DONE. No way in hell she wins the big Blue states sans Black foks.
And Billary isn't just pissing off Black foks. Hell, about half the senior staff of Obama are EX-Clintonian insiders. The more foks get of the Clintons, over time the LESS they like it.
Again, when faithful, longterm Democrats take a good, hard look at ALL the Clintons have pulled during this election, the sting of it is going to linger far BEYOND just the primaries.
I mean, she's made things so nasty, they can't even merge into one ticket to go against McCain.
Just the other day that fool husband of herself said that Hillary and Barack would be a near "unbeatable" ticket. I don't believe that at all. I think Obama loses all credibility by allying with her considering what she and her foks have done.
So not only can't she win by her lonesome she likely would NOT be able to get the help she Obama. |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 732
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 03:00 pm: |
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You could be right, but the problem is the Clintons have always been scandalous. People know who and what they are and they vote for them any way. I believe (many people disagree) should Hillary get the nom, white, middle age GOP women will vote for her just to say they voted for the first woman Prez.
I hate to say it, but I doubt Hillary will choose Senator Obama should she get the nom. With him as VP she'll always be looking over her shoulder.
Remember John Kerry got the majority AA vote and he still lost the swing states. Unless you think AA will vote for McCain to spite Hillary??? Makes no sense.
If black folks stay home, Latinos will show up and be happy that their votes could make a difference. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10018
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 03:20 pm: |
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Robynmarie,
The difference is though the Clinton's had their core supporters, especially BLACK foks, to rely on. So even though they had their problems and plenty of foks who hate them, they were always able to garner enuff support to stay afloat.
But I don't know about about, but all over the place I'm seeing and hearing Black foks say if Hillary is nominated they either are voting for McCain or are not voting at all.
And all those excited generation X'ers and uppity White liberals who are gushing over Obama, some of whom would have otherwise supported Hillary, will not long forget what she's done to their favorite magical kneegrow.
I don't think even Obama himself can re-bridge the chasm Hillary & Co has created. And, assuming he's not nominated, if he intends to make another run at the White House 4 years from now, I'm not sure he'd WANT to help her.
I would agree with you the wildcard in all of this is the extent to which women of all races, politics, etc. want to elect a woman. But Hillary has never rated especially well amongst all women (which explains why Obama has gotten somewhere near 40% of the White DEMOCRATIC female vote). So while it's possible some massive pro-female vote might manifest amongst American women on her behalf, there do not appear to be great signs of that occurring.
I think there are lots of women out there who do NOT think very positively of her using her husband to get where she is. And THAT will definitely playout in the general election.
And Kerry did not cleanly win all the Blue states. Some of them were close. If Black support was lacking in those states, Kerry would have lost them.
And, yes, even with the Black vote, Kerry lost them. But if the Black vote was lacking he would have had NO chance of getting them.
And McCain does NOT incite amongst Black and other Democratic voters that Bush does. He does have a chance to compete in pro-Democratic states.
My point is that without a strong Black vote not only does Hillary have very little chance of winning swing states she'll even lose some of the Blue states and has ZERO chance of winning some of the Red states. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11827
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 03:27 pm: |
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Don't try to confuse Obama zealots with reality and logic, Robynmarie.
For one candidate to question a rival's competency and experience in order to elevate his or her own qualifications is standard procedure in a race for office.
Politics is a game. As a tactic, you settle on something that can be exploited as an opponent's weakness and then key in on it and make it an issue by hammering it home repeatedly. Veracity is beside the point. Why do they think Obama keeps harping on Hillary's voting for the war? Obama zealots are so naive, and so linnear in their thinking processes, - so taken aback and indignant when his opponent doesn't make things easy for him. They tear out their hair if Hillary doesn't adhere to the script they have crafted. Do they think McCain will go easy on Obama?
As for the States of Michigan and Florida not being able to participate in the process because they broke the rule, rule breaking has never been an irreversible crime in politics where the art of compromise is how things get done. The idea of a candidate being decided by delegates from 48 states instead of 50 ones is undemocratic; it should be rectified so that the voters of these states are not punished for the aberration of a few maverik leaders.
And, finally, those who closely examine Hillary and Barak's platforms say that there is very little difference between what they stand for. This contest is just one big circus of hot-air balloons, and if Obama's get deflated, his peanut gallery will throw tantrums and wish they could kill dat ol bad Hillary. Poor babies. That's why I hope he wins because mass nervous breakdowns can be hazardous to the health of black folks.  |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 735
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 03:30 pm: |
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Senator Clinton has gotten over 12 million votes and very few of them from black people.
She has strong support from white middle age women and Latinas. I believe Senator conceded the black vote long away, and frankly it hasn't really hurt her.
For some reason, Obama supporters want to discount this. |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 736
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 03:38 pm: |
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Cynique-I watched the Sunday morning news shows, and it sounds like it is all set up for Michigan and Florida delegates to be seated as is. Howard Dean and the Senator from Michigan both said how expensive it would be to have another election, so, unless the two candidatesa agree, delegates will be seated as is.
I kinda feel sorry for Senator Obama. I think the Dem inner circle is humoring him until they lower the boom on him and his "movement". |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11828
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 03:47 pm: |
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And as you say, Robynmarie, it's very possible that the Hispanic and Asian vote can off-set the black votes when it comes to Barak and Hillary, plus a lot of woman may come into the fold, women who are not fanatical Obama groupies, but practical ones who will settle for Hillary if she is the candidate.
Similarly, not all black people and liberals are going to sit on their hands and not vote for Hillary if Obama does not get the nomination. There are still enough rational people around who won't cut off their noses to spite their faces, who will invoke the "lesser-of-the-2-evils" option when they have to consider the alternative of putting another inept, war-mongering old white man into office. Hillary is their second choice, and these people will go ahead and vote for her. We can make these projections just as easily as ABM can so confidently declare that McCain will make inroads into the Democratic electorate.
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10021
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 03:49 pm: |
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Robynmarie,
Hillary has gotten lots of votes. But she hasn't gotten anywhere NEAR the number of votes she was SUPPOSE to get prior to the start of this thing.
She was suppose to win this thing in a LANDSLIDE. And she certainly was NOT suppose to be down in votes and delegates to a guy whose a generation younger than her and whom MOST Americans hadn't even HEARD of 4 years ago.
And it's one thing to concede the Black vote. It's quite another to break bonds with it.
Again, if you think Hillary - or ANY Democrat - can win a GENERAL election sans lots of support from Black foks you really haven't paid much attention to what's happened in this nation the last SIXTY years.
And don't feel sorry for Obama. He's a very young man. He's got the next 2 or 3 presidential elections to vie for.
Hillary's the one who either must win now or will NEVER be president. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11829
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 05:45 pm: |
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Who said Hillary was supposed to win this thing in a landslide???
And, again, this is a new ball game; how influential the black vote once was has changed. In the big states, Hispanics are neutralizing black voters and Asians are also taking up the slack.
His age is one reason Obama should consider the vice-presidency if it comes down to that. He will still be a young man when the next 2 elections come around, - one who will have paid his dues, who will have gotten "experience", and whose turn it will undeniably be.
I agree that this election may very well be Hillary's "last hurrah" if she loses the nomination. Should she accept the vice-presidency, she'll be close to 70 before she'll get another shot...an old white lady. |
Robynmarie
Veteran Poster
Username: Robynmarie
Post Number: 737
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 06:06 pm: |
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^^^LOL@ old white lady!
Didn't Michelle Obama say if Senator Obama doesn't win this time, he won't run again?
Guess "change" expires after one year. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11833
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 06:24 pm: |
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Well, there are rumors that Obama has his eye on the governorship of Illinois if he loses this race. He may be so battle-scarred by defeat that he will forego another run. |
Doberman23
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 1218
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 06:24 pm: |
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hilldawg and obama may want to actually both take it easy. the more i think about it, maybe it wont be so bad if mc cain is the next president. america is in a mess right now and who ever takes over better be one outstanding magician to make this mess disappear. right now i don't think that any of three could get things squared away within 4 years and that would be all that they would get.
obama and hilldawg both have the most to lose if they aren't immediately making successful moves. not just for themselves or the democratic party, but this would stretch into racial and gender lines as well.
if mc cain runs the show (which he most definitely will if hilldawg is able to slick in a win) he has nothing to lose. he will probably be too old to run for another term, he would be able to blame everything on bush and it would be considered acceptable (obama and hilldawg it will be considered an excuse to do so). and most of all he would be forgiven by all races for his wrong decisions (hilldawg and obama will not be allowed to make mistakes ....period)
so maybe a vote for mc cain may actually be a vote for both of the dems in the long run. no matter how this voting stuff ends up there's always one rule of thumb that rings true ... don't count on any of them... protect your own neck!  |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2751
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 09:41 pm: |
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Doberman, interesting (tho risky) strategy! LOL |
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