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Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2725
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 12:58 pm: | 
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http://www.theroot.com/id/44960 |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11747
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 02:15 pm: |
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Very interesting article and the comments posted in regard to it were equally interesting. I found myself agreeing with McWhorter's "cherry pickin" as well as with most of the points made by those who disagreed with him. And that's what being black is all about for me - this, but not that. It's all very Zen, all about the water that cooks the rice.  |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3018
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2008 - 09:12 pm: |
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Agreed. I have followed John McWhorter for some time and I have a number of his books. I don't always agree with everything he advocates nor the company he keeps and I do agree with quite a bit of what he says. Unfortunately, he has some very ugly and painful (but true) things to say about black folks. For those who are not familiar with him, he will be hosting a 3 hour show tomorrow on BookTV-CSPAN2, 02 March 2008 Sunday at 12:00 PM, and Monday at 12:00 AM (EST). Please check it out.
http://www.booktv.org/
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Nels
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 1074
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 03, 2008 - 12:05 am: |
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McWhorter's out of his mind. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9986
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 03, 2008 - 10:50 am: |
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I saw most of the interview. Found it to be pretty enlightening. I mean, unless I misread something, dude listed Outkast and T.I. amongst his favorite music artists.
That can't make his conservative syncophants very happy.
The highlight of the interview was we he was compelled by a call-in from what sounded like a young Black woman to admit to having a White, Jewish wife. That was the one time when the usually icy cool McWhorter appear to 'melt' some. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2737
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 03, 2008 - 11:23 am: |
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ABM, I agree. It is easy to try to cram this man into a box. But he cannot be so easily categorized, IMO. I'll have to try to catch a repeat of the interview--It sounds interesting. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6383
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 03, 2008 - 11:59 am: |
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McWhorter sucks. |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 676
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 08:17 am: |
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One of my earliest memories is at the age of 5. It was summer and I was outdoors playing with a few of my childhood friends when my White grandmother called me in for dinner. The next day, she sent myself, my brother and our cousins out to play after breakfast and chores. I ran into one of my friends from the day before. She was one of the few Whites who lived in our neighborhood. She asked me, "What you have for dinner - fried chicken and watermelon?"
I remember feeling so insulted. That was my first brush with racism. Even at 5, I understood the implication. Worst of all, we did indeed have fried chicken, corn and rice, and watermelon for supper. Well, from that day onward, I swore off fried chicken and watermelon.
After a while, my grandma noticed that I stopped eating those foods, and she questioned me. I remember telling her that only Black people eat fried chicken and watermelon. My (White) grandma laughed and asked me did I really believe that a bunch of White farmers raised chicken and cropped watermelon just so Black people wouldn't starve. That put things is much better perspective for me, and I've loved fried chicken and watermelon ever since. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11781
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 02:03 pm: |
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There are no shades of blackness. Black is black. But it can be an option, - can be like a cloak that may be put on and taken off at one's discretion.
Black people used to be enslaved by stereotypes. Now they are reluctant to liberate themselves from the importance they attach to invoking a favorable white opinion. We are damned if we do, and damned if we don't. And so it goes. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9994
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 02:52 pm: |
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I am glad that McWhorter, a noted expert in words and language, agrees with me that "Ebonics...is not 'bad grammar.'" |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11790
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 04:19 pm: |
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The conventional wisdom on this subject has always been that Ebonics is not about bad grammar, but about non-standard English. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2745
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 09:28 pm: |
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ABM, I definitely would recommend his book "The Power of Babel: A Natural History of Language." |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6403
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 01:59 pm: |
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I would recommend rat poison for McWhorter. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11820
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 06:46 pm: |
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Can we test the rat poison on you to make sure it works, chrishayden??? |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1132
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 11:31 am: |
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NTFS, I watched the majority of the 3 hour indepth interview with McWhorter. I typically enjoy these Indepth interviews as they are obviously more informative that the biased spin you get elsewhere in the media -- especially on personalities like McWorther.
I came away more impressed with John after viewing the interviews. It even prompted me to create a web page: http://aalbc.com/authors/john_mcwhorter.htm
One thing that really struck me was John stating that the article he wrote slaming rap music was the worst thing he has done in his career. He described the "cancerous" piece as overly editted, and misrepresenting his true feelings.
It did not strike me as back peddling just a deeply regretted misstake.
I also find it interesting to see what a typical working day is like for different people, which is another reason I like about the indepth interviews.
Chris what is it about McWhorter that you despise so? |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6410
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 11:57 am: |
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Can we test the rat poison on you to make sure it works, chrishayden???
(It's pointless. It only slays rats)
Chris what is it about McWhorter that you despise so?
(You don't have enough time or patience to read all of it) |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11825
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 02:15 pm: |
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Well, chrishayden, I guess your being a mouse does give you a pass, - unfortuntately.
Troy, Chrishayden is a "blind-hater". He lives in a world according to chris. In his narrow little mind, he has everything mapped out as to how he thinks things should be, and anybody who doesn't share his cock-eyed views incurs his wrath - and my admiration.  |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1136
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 11:53 pm: |
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Cynique, of course your admiration is welcomed. However I believe Chris, despite his Archie Bunkerian exterior, is both willing and able to listen to reason.
Chris share one thing you dislike about McWhorter. Is it is white Jewish wife, his gayish comportment or his inability to handle a basketball?
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10006
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 10:55 am: |
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Troy,
I think McWhorter's himself explained why many Blacks are suspicious of or bothered by him (and you touched on it in your March 08, 2008 - 11:31 am) post. When he first hit the national scene, he has because of some of what he'd said and written largely been billed as sort of next-generation Shelby Steele or Thomas Sowell.
The In-Depth interview (somewhat surprisingly) revealed the extent to which he wants to separate from that.
Btw: I’m not surprised by McWhorter having a White, Jewish wife. Not bothered by it.
But not surprised by it. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10007
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 10:58 am: |
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Troy,
I found interesting his saying how when he works he requires absolute peace and quiet and appear to fear his someday having children might severely impact his productivity.
Of course, he could just get an office or apartment distance away from his home to work from. |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1139
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2008 - 09:28 pm: |
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ABM, I did not get the impression that having kids was high on McWhorter's list of things to do.
He could also hire a nanny and buy a bigger house; like everybody else with his financial resources.
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 3037
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 06:43 am: |
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I recorded the entire Book Notes In Depth interview with John McWhorter on my DVR. I watched the first hour but I did not watch the other 2/3 of the show (had to leave for business). However, I will finish reviewing it this week. As I stated before, I don't agree with everything McWhorter purports (like the merits of Ebonics -sorry, I know that is a super sensitive subject) but I do agree with quite a bit of it. I don't know if I would classify him as a Shelby Steele clone and I definitely would not place him on the same bus with Thomas Sowell. Sowell is living in another reality. I have tried hard to like this brother. I have a number of his books and I did learn from them. But he is too slavish and extreme in his defense of Bush, the Iraq quagmire, the excesses of big business, his open contempt for working poor people and his total refusal to fairly critique or critically discuss racism and discrimination. He is solidly in the camp of white conservatism and they love him.
I must admit, I have extreme difficulty with Negroes who openly and brazenly claim their allegiance and stake with white conservatives. But I have been much better with my tolerance and wiliness to give them a fair hearing than before. But it is hard. And the difficulty has nothing to do with mindlessly siding with or obeying the whims of the Democratic party, white liberals or a mono-block black group think. I use facts and documented history to support my beliefs -not race hyperbole and emotionalism. So, I do try to respect so-called black conservatives although I may strongly disagree with them on certain issues. For example, I meet Shelby Steele at the Monterey Jazz Fest last year. Even though I was disgusted with his voting for Bush -twice, I found him to be a very ingratiating and humble kinda guy. We had a brief but amiable friendly conversation. On the flip side, I met Julian Bond at the same fest a year earlier and the man was very impersonal and somewhat rude. I was somewhat taken back because his intolerant aloofness. Go figure…..
I try to see good in people although it can be trying at times. Someone like Ward Connerly would prove to be the ultimate test. (for me that is). And it is no so much for his rabid personal Jihad against affirmative action, but for other very specific acts and statements that I personally found to be indefensible as well as offensive. Sorry, but I can't get past it.
I must admit, I do find McWhorters emotionally detached monotone and somewhat effeminate demeanor to be somewhat distracting. But it is minor. So I digress. It’s not major to the point of having to ignore him or making it a sticking point of contention. I think he has some very interesting (although somewhat offensive to the sensitivities of some) factually undeniable things to say about race and class. And I also don't think his marriage to a white Jewish woman bears any meaning nor has any relevancy to anything. I've dated a white Jewish woman before and it had no bearing on anything I believed before or after I met her. Maybe because we had different political views to begin with (she was a very radical liberal). You would have thought she was a UC Berkeley rather than an Ohio State grad ( I just came from Berkeley two weeks ago and trust me –those people are border line political anarchists up there!).
But I am glad everyone in this thread was at least willing (except one person -for obvious reasons) to give the man a fair hearing. I'm sure you have seen another side of him you (like most folks) were not aware of. I think it's a good thing.....
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Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1140
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 10:16 am: |
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NTFS very well put.
Interesting about the Jewish wife thing. I've met a number of Jewish women that I'm fond of. However I could not image marrying one.
At the same time this is one of the reason I respect people like John. He is willing to deal with the challenges of dating and marrying someone they truly love against all the odds.
Then again, I folks like McWhorter are not from my world; so the challenges of dealing with a white Jewish wife are not as great for him as they would be for me. They travel in circles where white Jewish women are common, they have little or no repercussions from family and friends.
Besides, I love the smell of bacon frying in the morning too much. Though more Black folks are eschewing this as well...
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Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10025
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 11:13 am: |
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Troy,
I agree with you about McWhorters and kids. He seems like the type who'd consider children to be a most bothersome inconvenience.
Ditto with you about Jewish chicks. Admittedly, I find many of them to be EMINENTLY shaggable. But just being Black is messy enuff as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't want impart the drama of being BOTH Black and Jewish on my kids.
But I don't buy your IR You & Me Against The World speak. I think such Black men are often attempting to running away from certian issues and problems as they're inclined to be running towards some altuistic solutions.
Ntfs,
I mostly agree with you about McWhorter except the part about his having a White, Jewish wife. I am very SUSPICIOUS of Blacks who prescribe curealls of Black family and community who do not in their own private and intimate lives engage in such.
I saw Shelby Steele on CSPAN BookNotes yesterday basically squawkin' about Obama being some sort of slippery, deceptive Machurian Candidate or something.
Dude's losing his intellectual fastball, bruh.
But I can see what you describe of Julian Bonds happening. I had a run-in with him a couple of decades ago. Mofo tried to 'kneegrow bigtime' me in front of his entourage and synchophants.
Had it been just me and him, I might have forcefed his uppity, high yellow a$$ a facefull of knuckle samiches.
And it there's ever a race war, Ward Connerly is amongst the first mofos I burn at the stake. |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 678
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 09:03 am: |
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I wouldn't want impart the drama of being BOTH Black and Jewish on my kids.
As someone who is of both Black and German Jewish extraction, I take offense to that.  |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 10032
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 02:54 pm: |
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U_S,
Ooops! My Bad!
Well...All I've got to say is yawl must have some DOOZY family gatherings.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! |
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