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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6691
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 09:12 am: | 
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Clinton backers may find an alternative named McCain
By FROMA HARROP
Despite the hard contest between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, party leaders keep telling Democratic-leaning voters that they have two good candidates. They are right, but one of them may well be a Republican.
Far from the pumped-up Obama rallies, centrists who voted for John Kerry last time now say they are considering John McCain — especially if the Democrat is the vaporous Obama. At least that's what many are telling me — and I'm telling myself.
One friend said he'd vote for the New York senator, and if she's not the candidate, then McCain. When I reminded him that he doesn't like Hillary, he shrugged. Another acquaintance e-mailed, "Hillary is to me extremely unlikable, but I do not regard likability as a qualification."
The notion that many Clinton voters cannot be easily transferred to Obama contradicts much "expert" opinion. But a Super Tuesday exit poll suggested there is something to it. While 52 percent of Obama's supporters were amenable to a Clinton candidacy, only 49 percent of Clinton voters said they'd be happy with the Illinois senator, according to the survey by Harvard University's Institute of Politics.
And at that time, the news media were still lavishing love on Obama. That situation is about to end. "He's the fashion plate of the moment," an editorial page editor remarked, "but fashion week is over."
Sophisticated commentary now notes the growing creepiness of the Obama campaign: Its aversion to substantive policy discussions. The sermonizing — "In the face of despair, we believe there can be hope." And the messianic bit — "At this moment in the election there is something happening in America." (That would be he.)
Volunteer trainees at Camp Obama are told not to talk issues with voters, but to offer personal testimony about how they "came" to Obama. Makes the skin crawl.
Centrists generally do not find cults of personality entertaining. The mass hypnosis reminds them of the mortgage frenzy — all these people buying into a dream and not caring about the fine print.
The Republican Party, meanwhile, has given them a choice. This is despite the best efforts of its right wing to pick a candidate against whom any Democrat would be better. And the more the radicals beat up on the Arizona senator, the more he looks like a contender to moderate Democrats.
Why might this group like McCain? Count the ways. He had the fiscal discipline to vote against the Bush tax cuts in 2001 and 2003, and the decency to complain that they unfairly favored the rich. He's OK on the environment, concerned over global warming and against oil drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. He supported tighter fuel-economy standards and opposes torture. John McCain is not an embarrassment.
Of course, much could happen before November. To try to make up with the right, McCain might hedge on the very positions that moderates admire. He's already vowed to make permanent the tax cuts he once opposed.
And there's the war in Iraq. McCain courageously slammed the Bush administration's early handling of it, and the troop surge he supported has calmed things in Iraq, at least for now. But he has yet to adequately explain why going to Iraq was ever a good idea.
On the Democratic side, Clinton might prevail and thus offer a serious alternative to McCain. Or Obama might decide to get serious and apply critical thinking to real issues in a way that appeals to wonky centrists.
What Democrats must understand is that their moderates now have another candidate to consider. And this slice of the electorate is big enough and grumpy enough to swing a general election to John McCain.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/5550837.html |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6316
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 10:11 am: |
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Hillary faces the same problem if and when they steal the nomination from Obama in August.
So THERE, Tonya. |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2119
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 10:15 am: |
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ONLY a fool would think having republicans back in office after 8 years of HELL is a "good alternative" to electing Obama.
More americans can't afford health care so more americans die over illnesses they didn't know that had because they can't get routine exams!
But we don't need CHANGE. In fact CHANGE is a bad word, right?
More americans losing jobs because the super wealthy republicans can clear more millions in their bank accounts due to the many tax breaks and cheap labor they get by shipping jobs to india and like nations.
But SOME SAY we don't need CHANGE. In fact CHANGE is a bad word, right?
More americans becoming the new homeless because they lose thier jobs to somebody in India because of greed. They lose their homes because the same wealthy people look the other way as unscrupulous preditory lenders sprung up and multiplied like popcorn praying on families struggling to stay afloat in an economy bent on destroying the middleclass and splitting the country into the very rich and the very poor and the homeless!
But SOME SAY we don't need CHANGE. In fact CHANGE is a bad word, right?
More americans left with no retirement plans because the wealthy republicans allow filthy rich CEOs to funnel pension funds to finance their mult million dollar "golden parachutes"and use Social Security to finance wars and "balance the budget" (how can a budget be balanced when you have a deficit in the TRILLIONS?
But SOME SAY we don't need CHANGE. In fact CHANGE is a bad word, right?
And let's not even talk about the BLATANT
minupulation of gas prices that is breaking our backs and driving up the prices of everything including GROCERIES!
And on...and on... and on!! |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2983
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 11:43 am: |
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"ONLY a fool would think having republicans back in office after 8 years of HELL is a "good alternative" to electing Obama.
More americans can't afford health care so more americans die over illnesses they didn't know that had because they can't get routine exams!
But we don't need CHANGE. In fact CHANGE is a bad word, right? More americans losing jobs because........."
 .....Thank you. Factual and undeniable...
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11560
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 12:11 pm: |
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Who said we don't need change??? Anybody other than Bush is a "change". It's what "change" turns out to be. |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2120
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 12:37 pm: |
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Go back and read some of your other posts. The word Change became almost a curse word to hear you tell it! A word used to "manipulate" people. |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2121
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 12:45 pm: |
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Anybody other than Bush is a "change". It's what that "change" turns out to be.
You got that right and those who want a CHANGE FOR THE BETTER WILL VOTE FOR OBAMA! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11563
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 12:48 pm: |
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Change is a double-edged word. I have NEVER said change is a bad thing, - only that change for the sake of change can prove to be disappointing. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11564
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 12:54 pm: |
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Something else I have never done is to tell people they should vote for Hillary Clinton. I have simply encouraged anyone who supports her because I believe there should be some balance on this board and people have a right to choose for themselves who they want to vote for. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6694
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 01:27 pm: |
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Hillary faces the same problem...
How?
Ironically Barack created this problem on his own by slamming Hillary on the war. Despite all the attention he's getting from independents and so-called Obamacans, he's seen as too liberal…perhaps too liberal for centrist Democrats.
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A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2122
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 01:39 pm: |
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Cynique,
I haven't told anyone who to vote for. I just made a statement. I said those who want change for THE BETTER will VOTE for OBAMA. HA!
And no you don't come right out and tell people who to vote for you just call people ignorant and gullible who are for OBAMA. So what's the difference? |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2123
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 01:39 pm: |
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Cynique,
I haven't told anyone who to vote for. I just made a statement. I said those who want change for THE BETTER will VOTE for OBAMA. HA!
And no you don't come right out and tell people who to vote for you just call people ignorant and gullible who are for OBAMA. So what's the difference? |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9942
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 02:07 pm: |
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Much of Obama's support comes from Independent voters. And the same is the case for McCain. Hillary's supporters are more traditional (and largely undereducated and ignorant) Democrats. Should Obama win the nomination, he is much more likely to get Hillary's voters than she will his if she wins the nomination. If he doesn't win the nomination, many of Obama's supporters will either go with McCain or just avoid voting altogether. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11566
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 02:21 pm: |
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Well, a_womon, I'm not going to apologize for or retract what I've said. I will assert that a lot of my scorn is motivated by the viciousness of the Hillary haters, a viciousness that reeks with wild-eyed guillibility laced with an attachment to buzz words. These followers are the same people who pooh pooh HRC's claim of experience but can't reconcile their criticism which lumps her with her husband's regime.
And I'm not alone when it comes to assessing the tenor of the Obama road show. There is a consensus that it is too much hyberbole and oration and not enough substance. Even his staff has started to try and develop a different image because the Republicans will cream him unless focus is taken away from all of the mindless adulation.
I repeat: I love Obama, but I am personally turned off by the groupie element among his supporters who wouldn't suprise me it they stuck out their tongues and said "nah-nah, our guy is better than that ol Hillary". |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11567
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 02:31 pm: |
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How independent and intelligent can a person be if he cuts off his nose to spite his face in a fit of vindictiveness and votes for an old white guy, - a Bush-lite who might choose a bible-thumping red neck for his VP.
And sitting around pouting and refusing to vote for a Democrat just to punish Hillary is being just as stupid. Hopefully all of these poor sports won't have to make this poor choice and that Obama will be elected. Jesus Christ! |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2124
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 02:52 pm: |
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See this is what I don't understand, when we show pride and get behind who WE LIKE (OBAMA) we are thought to be wild eyed and gullible,mindless groupies, bedazzled by Obamas charm and his amazing ability to mass hypnotize his millions of supporters, using buzz words. But anyone who maniacally supports Hillary is just that, an avid supporter. Why is this? Why the disparity?
We are not supposed to be excited about what we see in OBAMA? If he were a WHITE MAN would his experience be at issue? I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT!
Charisma Got AHNOLD elected and NOBODY CARED about his experience or lack thereof to determine if he could adequately GOVERN a state. And were it not for the constitutional provision that prohibits naturalized americans from running for president NO DOUBT he would be running in THIS ELECTION.
LOOK AT George DUMMYa BUSH? SURELY no one considered his NONexperience in foreign policy/ affairs, his INABILITY to master common english language, his INABILITY to deliver a prewritten speech and cause people to believe they were his own words, HIS INABILITY TO connect two coherent sentences together, and his inability to DO ANY DAMNED THING CORRECTLY before he was "voted" into office TWICE!
Obama's blackness IS at issue here. BUT IT IS HIS detractors that are QUICK to point up his being black because IT IS ALL THEY CAN bring up to try to raise a cause, an argument, no matter how weak, against him. |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2125
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 02:55 pm: |
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I believe it was a BILLARY SUPPORTER who said they would vote REPUBLICAN all the way down the line if BILLARY didn't get the NOD. NOT someone from OBAMA's camp. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11570
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 03:09 pm: |
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Well, I can't help what you don't understand, a-womon. But it should be pretty obvious that Hillary doesn't attract the kind of voter that Obama does or draw they kind of crowds that he does, and that she is perceived as unlikable. Her people can't understand why this is so.
Everybody is saying that Hillary's followers would more likely support Obama but that his would not support her. Do you understand this?
And I don't think anybody is publicly saying that Obama's blackness is a big handicap; they are too busy saying that his ability to transcend race is a part of his amazing appeal. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9947
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 08:51 pm: |
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When Bush was elected it was trumpeted that he would be installing the most experienced and savvy Administration ever. With their long and vast experiences in foreign affairs, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, Wolfowitz, Rice & Co. were suppose to restore dignity and honor to White House.
How the hell has THAT worked for us?
Experienced don't mean much of a dayam if you're going to make the WRONG decisions OR you won't (because of all the fighting) be able to execute what you plan and want to do.
And if Clinton is going to take credit for her husband's presidency then I'd like to ask her supporters to describe WTF Bill Clinton HIMSELF do and achieve, other than promote and support Welfare Reform, 3-strike sentencing laws and NAFTA? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11573
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 11:01 pm: |
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Who is the "they" who was "trumping" that about Bush (who was, after all, a "change" from Clinton)??? Experience wasn't an issue because Dukakis and Kerry had experience, too, when they ran against Bush. Furthermore, I'm sure Obama will assemble an experienced staff, should he win the white house.
Experience and change are both relevant; change can be for the worse, and experience can be inappropriate. Those who resent being criticized because they are "ga-ga" for change, should stfu if they can't take people saying that experience is the best teacher.
Experts and historians do not agree with your slanted assessment of Clinton's presidency which is nothing more than opinionated grumbling. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 6698
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 7 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 11:31 pm: |
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Barack Obama is taking credit for being Black, but are we asking WTF has the Black man done lately to bring jobs and schools and better sentencing laws to Black people? No. Though we probably should.
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Doberman23
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 1196
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 04:49 pm: |
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whatever ... hillary rodham has done absolutely nothing in life NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING hillary clinton was married to a president and proved that name recognition can be a powerful thing.
she counts her time in the white house as experience? wtf? i guess the janitors that worked in the white house have experience then. her job was the first lady, which she must not have been that great at, otherwise billy wouldn't have been searching for so much strange (outside ass). she has parlayed her whole life off of what bill has done, if jackie kennedy ran for a position she could have been just as effective as hillary has been.
really, you would have to be a fool to think that she has done anything on her own merit. thats why her campaign is so weak, she yaps about her experience and then tries to attack people for theirs or lack there of. it's hard to win a fight win every punch you throw misses ... so she better fight dirty, or just have bill throw in the towel. i find it amusing that since they are losing and can't beat the man himself, they are now trying to diss obama supporters. call them crazy, call them hoodwinked, call them what you will but in the end you will call them winners. and as far as the man speeches, you can't help but hate on what he says if your a hilldawg supporter, because he could take her exact same speech and it would sound better ... hilldawg you don't get hated on just for the hell of it, people see the light in her and it just doesn't shine like obamas.
tonya $50 send it to michigan baby girl, because your on the losers squad. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11583
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 05:43 pm: |
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Come on, Dobes. Don't get carried away. Be fair. Hillary has a long list of accomplishments as a senator, and while First Lady she was very active as a Children's Advocate - you recall her "it takes a village to raise a child campaign"?
That's why I fall out with Obama fans. They resort to personal attacks and never give credit where credit is due. |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2128
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 05:53 pm: |
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That's why I fall out with Obama fans. They resort to personal attacks and never give credit where credit is due
OH.MY. GOD! HAAHAHAHHA! And all of the Billary fans have adhered to your golden rule? And of course you have too... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11584
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 05:59 pm: |
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Hillary fans are noted for being staid and pragmantic; they are not wild-eyed, over the top fanatics. Nobody on this board has lied on Obama or not give him his props - as scant as they are. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11587
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 06:30 pm: |
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Boy, talk about proving my point about over the top mania. Let's hear it for a_womon.
The only 3 people on this board who have ever shown any affinity for Hillary are Tonya, Robynmarie and me. And none of us have ever said that he wasn't intelligent, charismatic and electable. We have all noted that he is lacking in experience and his worshippers have agreed with this, regarding it as an asset.
I didn't dish out anything when Hillary was ahead. I don't get my jollies from gloating. I always felt that whomever came out on top between Hillary and Obama, it was good for the Democrats unlike some cheerleaders who will tear out their hair if the quarterback of the highschool football team doesn't win the homecoming king title. |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2131
Registered: 05-2004
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 06:31 pm: |
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Nobody on this board has lied on Obama or not give him his props - as scant as they are
Just so you know...
Obama's, list is too substantive, so I'll mainly categorize.
During his elected service he's sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced
233 regarding healthcare reform,
125 on poverty and public assistance,
112 crime fighting bills,
97 economic bills,
60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,
21 ethics reform bills,
15 gun control,
6 veterans affairs and many others.
His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These inculded **the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 - became law, **The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, - became law, **The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate, **The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, - became law, **The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, In committee, and many more.
In all, since entering the U.S. Senate, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096.
An impressive record, for someone who supposedly has no record according to some who would prefer that this comparison not be made public.
He's not just a talker.
He's a doer.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11589
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 06:42 pm: |
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The same thing could be done with Hillary's record. It's twice as long. And we all know how easy it is to sponsor a bill. And getting it passed is not a solo effort. So retract your fangs.
I would just like to hear you be intelligent enough to admit that HRC is not a demonic do-nothing. You can't, can you?  |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11591
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 07:07 pm: |
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The more you rant, the less I have to impugn your intelligence. Just keep on. Pretend you're at an Obama rally. Read, set, eyes bulging, YELL. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11601
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 09:00 pm: |
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Guess a-woman realized how crazy her manic posts were making her look. That's why she deleted them all. Sneeeaky. |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2146
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 10:11 pm: |
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  AWWWWW Cynique,are you lost and can't find your way home? Here booboo, there's Teddy and there's your house. Go home. You're much much too tired!
Time for night night. And NoNo , your friend can't sleep over tonight! HA! NO you can't stay up! Now SHOO!
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11605
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 10:19 pm: |
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Never left home, babe. You oughta know that. One of your played out lines is how homebound I am. And better to look like a cute little teddy bear than a laughing hyena like you. Although I do have laugh myself at your attempt to make somebody other than yourself look childish.  |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2147
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 10:26 pm: |
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No Booboo, You make yourself look just like a schoolgirl without any help from me. Now didn't I tell you to go night night?? Where's my belt! AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA!
Bye for now. You and your new little friend carry on without me! I'll be back in a few days! Don't hurt yourself now! AHHAHAHHAHA! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 11608
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 10:48 pm: |
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Got that laugh in didn't you, hyena? And stop being modest. You are the poster girl for childish pettiness. Even you realize that, which is why you deleted those post that revealed the true you. And you're just mad cuz we big girls won't let you play with us. Run along now. |
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