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Thumper
Veteran Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 577
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 08:25 pm: | 
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Hello All,
I was reading the debut novel by Judge Greg mathis, and I have a question, "Do we speak in correct grammar?" I don't mean using the $2 or $5 or more words, but in everyday talking are we grammatically correct? I believe we are. I've been trying to monitor myself, and unless I start cussing somebody out, I'm pretty straight. But as I listen to those around me, I can't detect a lot of incorrect grammar. |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2493
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 09:01 pm: |
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Whom is this "we" you are speaking of? According to Troy, the posters and readers of AALBC are not necessarily demographically representative of the black community or even the white community.
This place of misfits is made up of the educated earning more than the average of the middle-class (not sure if I said this right).
Also, does one speak in correct grammar or does one use grammar properly?
I think it is the latter. |
Thumper
Veteran Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 579
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 09:32 pm: |
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Hello,
Yukio: The "we" is in the people around us, not necessarily on the board, but everyday life. You did bring up a good point concerning education, but I have to say that the people that I talk with everyday, black and white, are not all college educated, but the "we" are a certain age where the basic education (K-high school) I would argue is better than the one being taught in today's schools.
You wrote: Also, does one speak in correct grammar or does one use grammar properly?
Is there a difference? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12657
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 11:02 pm: |
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I'd say grammar is not black people's strong suit, not to mention their habitual misprouncing of the word "ask" as "aks" and the misspelling of the word "receive" as "recieve".
"Do she" co-ops "does she". "It's a girl that I like", replaces "there's a girl whom I like". We also have a tendency to use plural nouns with single verbs as in "where is they going" instead of where are they going. I "seen" instead of I "saw". And we continue our long-standing love affair with the verb "be"; e.g. I be doing, he be doing, they be doing instead of I am doing, he is doing, and they are doing. Yes, a lot of our incorrect grammar is the careless speech that characterizes Ebonics and colorful street slang.
Of course, many educated blacks are bi-lingual, knowing correct grammer but only using it in specific situations.
And, actually, the question posed, should be "who" is we, not "whom" is we. "Whom" is never the subject of a sentence because it belongs to the objective case and is usually preceeded by a preposition. 
Proper grammar is more about enuciation rather than correctness. Correct grammar is simply Standard English. |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2495
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 11:42 pm: |
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Cynique:
I wrote:
Whom is this "we" you are speaking of?
The "whom" is the object of the sentence, though it is at the beginning of the sentence. Thumper (you), the subject, is speaking (verb) of whom (we), the oject.
I dont know about "proper grammar[being]about enuciation rather than correctness. You enunciate but the syntax and inflections can be all wrong.
Also, correct grammar is certainly not simply Standard English. American Standard English is not British Standard English.
Finally, all American ethnic groups--Italians, Irish, etc . . . have similar problems among their less educated when it comes to what you have called Ebonics, so it is imprecise to claim that "grammar is not black people's strong suit."
Of course, this question of class and education is complicated, because economic status is not always derivative of one's educational attainments.
Thumper: I agree about the difference in the K-H.S. point. I think the internet has something to do with it; but I would also add the use of blackboard, powerpoint, and a general over-reliance on technology on our college and university campuses. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12658
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 12:03 am: |
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Then you should have said of whom are you speaking? LOL
And grammar is grammar. What about British grammar is different from American grammar?? That's like saying their British math is different from American math.
And Blacks are among the ethnic groups whose strong suit is not grammar. Would you dispute this statement. Or simply augment it?
As for being bi-lingual, I didn't say anything about economic status. I spoke only of educated blacks, who may or may not be affluent.
I'd also argue that "proper" English would not be a phrase applied to anyone who cannot speak distinctly in a "cultured" setting. |
Emanuel
Veteran Poster
Username: Emanuel
Post Number: 633
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 08:56 am: |
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No we don't. Many of us drop the "g" when we say words like running or playing. Just about everyone ends sentences in prepositions, which is really wrong. "Where are you going to be at." Most sentences like this stand alone without the word. Lots and lots of people use the word every instead of ever, like when we say "every since I was little," when we should say "ever since I was little."
Who here learned to diagram a sentence when they were in grade school?
Bottom line, we screw up our grammar but we usually know what the other person means. Right? |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2496
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 09:20 am: |
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no the order, in this case, doesn't change the role of the parts of speech elements...lol!
i am no expert. and once i finish my project, i may need your services, so i will humbly follow your instruction.
elder cynique, i said class plays a role in people's ability to speak english properly. in the past, the far, far away past, children could learn the three R in school. i didn't, and i went to very good schools. i was corrected verbally. i would say aks instead of ask, for example. or mines instead of mine. i have continued this tradition, and you will find me passing those same corrections over to passersby, friends, and family . . . lol!
now, this the 3 rs and more really something you find in the better public schools and private schools. they learn the three rs as well as receive very early standardized test taking classes.
thus, since the middle-class receive a better education in the better public schools and private schools, the working-class will receive a poorer education. and my point is that this is across class, generally speaking. a walk in chicago around the working-class polish, or here among the working-class irish and italians, you will mind these groups killin some english.
and among the strivers in those groups, (this is what leonardo di caprio represented in The Departed) you will see how it was for those who have grown up in both worlds. you too make a similar point about people who can code-switch.
finally, i added that some folk are in the middle-class but did not arrive their through their educational pursuits and attainments. for example, maybe 7 yrs ago, on a 4th of july weekend, i was hanging out with some italian cats who owned their own businesses, one a modest size construction company. nice guys, but their use of english was neither correct or proper. BUT, they all owned their homes, owned several cars, traveled, and owned nice big azz boats.
this gets at the crux of a point that i didn't even know i was making (lol) there is a small minority of us who really, really care about using and can use correct grammar.
Thumper:
i was sidetracked by cynique. now, the difference i was suggesting is a matter of word choice.
i think we use grammar, that is, it is something applied to speech. and, and this is a stylistic issue, the question "do we speak in correct grammar?" does not fall well on the ears....
so who knows, don't pay me any attention, thumpers.
by the way, welcome back, brother! |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2497
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 09:25 am: |
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Emanuel,
correction:
one can end a sentence with a preposition. for stylistic reasons, it may sound better, and the sentence will be grammatically correct. if you look through some few english usage books, that is what they will say, along with an interesting history of who said not to use it and who said propositions ok to use at the end of a sentence, etc . . . fun stuff! LOL!
the sentence you used:
"Where are you going to be at."
that is just poor grammar. LOL |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2372
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 10:53 am: |
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the problem of poor grammar is not exclusively a black problem.
If you could read some of the emails from some who hold supervisory positions on my job or hear them speak, it would surprise you.
using "then", when they mean "than" is a big one. There are many more. |
Thumper
Veteran Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 580
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 12:03 pm: |
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Hello All,
Cynique: Your bi-lingual statements are on point. I believe that it does have more to do with education than economic because there are some poor people have a good education. Remember years ago when it came out that some school district in California(?) was teaching and allowing their students to use Ebonics? All hell seem to broke loose. I was mad too because I wanted to know who told the white folks about it in the first place. There went our line of secret communication, hiding in plain sight.
I have to agree with Yukio that there is a difference between Standard American English and Standard British English. True, there is not a lot of difference, a majority of the English is the same. But ask a some of the British if the American English is the same as the British English, let me know before you ask so I can go to the other side of the room and duck behind something. There are word definitions that are different, perfect example lift (in Britain) equal elevator (in the US). There is also the "er"; example, "theater" spelled in Britain "theatre". I don't know Cynique it also sounds as if you have never studied a foreign language. Americans are known for doing things backwards, i.e. sentence structure.
There must be a group of American English professors (I use to know the name of the committee) who get together every so often and actual change some of the rules of grammar that is being taught. I did not know about this until I was in college the first time and had an English professor who told me that my grammar was old fashion and out of style. One of the "out of style" errors that I made was putting a comma before or after an conjunction; "...orange, banana, and a grapefruit" & "But, I did not do it." The commas before the "and" and after the "But" I was told were unnecessary, old school.
Emanuel, you may be right about ending a sentence with a preposition according to the particular style of correct grammar you were taught, but you may be wrong today. I was taught the same thing. We even had to memorize (I can't do it now so don't ask me) the whole list (approximately 15) of prepositions. It all goes back to that damn secret English committee who declares what is grammatically in style this year.
Yukio: Thanks, good to be back. *smile* I see your point about "code-switch"-ing. I wonder if its because of the age we grew up in that some of us older ones are able to do it and yet the younger generation don't have a clue about it or simply don't care? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12659
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 12:29 pm: |
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Word-style, definition and pronunciation have nothing to do with grammar, which is the correct use of the parts of speech that compose a sentence.
Of course, British people speak with a distinct accent and, in many cases, their semantics differ from American ones, but both languages observe the standard rules of grammar.
And every country thinks foreigners speak backwards. Who is to say who is right?
Yes, Emanuel, I can diagram a sentence. I learned how to do this in 8th grade back in the dark ages.
For all of its wealth and power, America is probably among the most semi-illiterate countries in the world. Here, people are proficient at their chosen professions but lacking in other skills.
And remember, y'all, "affect" is a verb and "effect" is a noun. |
Thumper
Veteran Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 581
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 01:19 pm: |
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Hello,
Cynique: You wrote: I'd say grammar is not black people's strong suit, not to mention their habitual misprouncing of the word "ask" as "aks" and the misspelling of the word "receive" as "recieve".
And it's "i before e except after c" and that was taught to white children to as well as black children, so I take it you are wrong on that score.
You wrote: "Word-style, definition and pronunciation have nothing to do with grammar, which is the correct use of the parts of speech that compose a sentence."
According to Webster: Grammar is "1.)a.) the study of the classes of words, their inflections, and their functions and relations in the sentence, b.) a study of what is to be preferred and what avoided in the inflection and syntax."
In case you don't know what inflection is *eyebrow raised* and are too ashamed to admit it: inflection is change in pitch or loudness of the voice.
*clearing my throat* |
Rondall
Moderator
Username: Rondall
Post Number: 160
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 01:27 pm: |
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Cynique said: "Word-style, definition and pronunciation have nothing to do with grammar"
TRUE! Many can not differentiate between grammar and diction.
My life is spent on the phone speaking with executives leading Fortune 500 companies. I have doing this job for over a decade (old azz dirt) and I work very hard to be acutely aware of my vocabulary, grammar, and my enunciation. Like it or not prejudicial outlook affects my ability to do business.
Grammar rules are ever changing and overwrought with antiquated rules that do not apply to everyday communication. Classroom proper speech is rare and a seldom practiced art.
Where does the usage Ebonics (do we still use that word?) and colloquilisms come into play? And how should these tools of communication get incorporated properly? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12664
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 01:33 pm: |
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Thumper, didn't I use the "not to mention" parenthetical expression indicating that I was not talking about what preceded??
The defintion you posted did not contradict what I said. I said the 2 languages differ in semantics and accents - but the bottom line is that both British people and American people adhere to the acccepted rules for parts of speech.
Now lower your eybrow and spit out your snot. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12665
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 01:44 pm: |
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Yes, Rondall, language is evolving. As it should. The question is what do we mean when we say say what we say. The break down in communications is the growing problem. |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2373
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 01:52 pm: |
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and people also do not use "have" and "has" correctly.
This is a common grammatical error that many make, and often. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12668
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 02:31 pm: |
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I am assuming that when I refer to "parts of speech" folks know I am talking about nouns, pronouns, verbs, adverbs, adjectives, prepositions, conjunctions and interjections, all of which have a different function in a sentence. |
Emanuel
Veteran Poster
Username: Emanuel
Post Number: 634
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 03:16 pm: |
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I do have several pet peeves in regards to how we speak.
1. I hate it when people say "I could care less" instead of "I couldn't care less."
2. Ditto for "I have the slightest idea" versus "I haven't the slightest idea."
3. "You welcome" versus "You're welcome."
Um, I'll post more when I have time but you get the idea.
I agree that the way we speak has evolved, which explains why Webster is always adding words to the dictionary. I believe it is also true that you must know the rules of grammar before you can break those rules (if you're breaking them on purpose).
Truth is, when it's just me and my peeps I become an Ebonics-speaking mo fo.
P.S. I don't think we should judge based on messageboard postings because we don't always have the advantage of spellcheck and time to re-read before posting. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12669
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 03:32 pm: |
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Very true, Emanuel. How often I have resisted the temptation to blue pencil some of these posts. And many of my own "dissertations" make me cringe upon closer scrutiny later.
When I did my little thing as a newspaper columnist years ago, I was told that I was a natural editor because they never had to cut anything I submitted. I think I am. This accounts for my propensity for conciseness. This is also why I will never be a successful novelist because I don't have the inclination to go into minute detail in my narratives. |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2498
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 04:45 pm: |
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cynique and thumper:
you can use a variety of dictionaries, and they will all more or less give a very general and broad definition of grammar.
with that said, regarding parts of speech, the actual use of it, as opposed to conceptually distinguishing the difference between diction and grammar, can lead to poor grammar.
since i am not in a writing nor teaching mode, i do not have any handy examples.
so when one incorrectly joins a word, lets say a noun, and with the wrong preposition, this can ruin the syntax, that is, the ordering of the sentence, as well as the meaning of the sentence.
here's another definition, by the way, for grammar:
n.
1.
1. The study of how words and their component parts combine to form sentences.
2. The study of structural relationships in language or in a language, sometimes including pronunciation, meaning, and linguistic history.
2.
1. The system of inflections, syntax, and word formation of a language.
2. The system of rules implicit in a language, viewed as a mechanism for generating all sentences possible in that language.
3.
1. A normative or prescriptive set of rules setting forth the current standard of usage for pedagogical or reference purposes.
2. Writing or speech judged with regard to such a set of rules.
4. A book containing the morphologic, syntactic, and semantic rules for a specific language.
5.
1. The basic principles of an area of knowledge: the grammar of music.
2. A book dealing with such principles. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12670
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 05:39 pm: |
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Riddle me this. Do the British say "I just came from the loo and am about to board the lift" while Americans say "I just come from the john and is about to enter the elevator? |
Thumper
Veteran Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 582
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 06:10 pm: |
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Hello All,
Cynique: You wrote "Thumper, didn't I use the "not to mention" parenthetical expression indicating that I was not talking about what preceded??"
No Bay-B, you did not. There is nothing in that post that would give me the slightest indication that you were referring to the standard English-American English portion of the discussion. My reply to you was in reference to what you said to Yukio. *eyebrow STILL up*
Cyniue wrote: "I am assuming that when I refer to "parts of speech" folks know I am talking about nouns, pronouns, verbs, adverbs, adjectives, prepositions, conjunctions and interjections, all of which have a different function in a sentence."
Well Cynique if you don't know what you are assuming, I assure you no one else will know. *now the other eyebrow is up* Woman, have you been drinking?
To the point I was trying to make between the differences in sentence structure between English and the others, is not just a matter of opinion or likes. For instance, while there are some similarities, words in which the roots exists in specific languages, one of the differences between English and some other is that in English the masculine/feminine of words does not exist. Yes, we have the singular and plural, but no masculine/feminine.
Rondall: You contradict yourself, what is the difference between diction and enuciation? *eyebrow raised* Yeah, you go to the back of the class and keep Cynique company in the corner.
Emanuel: I don't think anyone judges each other by their posts. I make mistakes all the time and its no big deal. It should be in light of this thread, but its not...well only for Cynique because she should know better. *LOL* |
Thumper
Veteran Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 583
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 06:13 pm: |
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Hello All,
Cynique: Riddle me this. Do the British say "I just came from the loo (...and I can tell too! Stinky ass) and am about to board the lift (that's good, I'll catch the next one! ) " while Americans say "I just come from the john and is about to enter the elevator? *LOL* |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12671
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 06:25 pm: |
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I am just clarifying my position, Thumper, in case I'm giving people like you too much credit for knowing about the parts of speech.
And you are entitled to misinterpret what I meant by "not to mention", in spite of the fact it was obvious that the examples I said were not related to each other.
Now you can raise both eyebrows and choke on your words because they ain't debunked anything. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12672
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 06:35 pm: |
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And I guess, Thumper, you have never heard of the suffixes "esse" or "ette" or "enne" that are added to English words to feminize them as in actress and comedienne being the feminine versions of actor and comedian. And of course at one time black women were referred to "Negresses". There are many other examples of this. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12673
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 06:38 pm: |
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And the point of my riddle was to illustrate that in spite of the difference in terms, correct use of the parts of speech remains constant. |
Thumper
Veteran Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 584
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 07:13 pm: |
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Hello,
Cynique: Alright, if you say so. *sliding my shot glass in your direction* Can a brotha get a little love from your bottle?
Cynique, for example in French the verbs can be use in the masculine and feminine forms, i.e. to sell, to listen, to run, etc. The same is not true in English with the -esse, -ette, or -enne. I got cha.
You wrote: And the point of my riddle was to illustrate that in spite of the difference in terms, correct use of the parts of speech remains constant.
I know but my version is funnier. *LOL* |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12675
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 07:30 pm: |
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Just think. Lurkers get all of this good stuff for free. Who needs Kola Boof to stir up slam fests??  |
Thumper
Veteran Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 585
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 08:13 pm: |
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Hello,
Cynique: You wrote: Just think. Lurkers get all of this good stuff for free. Who needs Kola Boof to stir up slam fests??
You have utterly, completely, unmercilessly KILLED my buzz!! Now I really do need a bottle and a couple of Zanacs!!!! |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1485
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 08:29 pm: |
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Damn Thump, she f'ed up my high too -- LOL |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12676
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 09:50 pm: |
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Egads! Sorry, guys. How was I to know? 
Just substitute the name "Chris Hayden" in place of she-who-shall-remain-nameless, and re-fuel. |
904diva
Regular Poster
Username: 904diva
Post Number: 32
Registered: 06-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 03:19 pm: |
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I have one for you all... a lot of grammar depends on where you live. I have relocated to Florida, and when I say they mess up the English language!!!!!!!!! Their sentences are so messed up, i.e. "What that was!" Even the teachers speak incorrectly, which is really scary. So much so, I want to move!!! I have a teenaged son who I almost slapped silly because he asked me "Who that is" when I beat him to answering the phone!!!!!!!
Also, thanks for the advice on prepositions. I didn't know it was okay to sometimes use them at the end of a sentence. Also didn't know I didn't need the comma after the "but" (But, she really hated the south). |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12680
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 07:39 pm: |
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I've noticed this "backwards" speaking among young people, too. Is it a sign that their brains have been re-wired, and that this will have a trickle-down effect on their behavior? Hopefully not.
I think the 2 most common errors people make in regard to commas is the failure to not only set the date off in commas but the city and state as well. e.g. Today is August, 8, 2008, and the people in Chicago, Illinois, are enjoying pleasant weather.
People also confuse "it's" with "its". "It's" is a contraction of "it is" and "its" is a possessive without an apostrophe.  |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2499
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 08:46 pm: |
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well, i think it has a lot to do with reading habits. so if they writing the poor (hint, hint) and the speaking will be poor too. if kids aren't taught that both the grammatical and logical uses of the comma then they will forever fumble differentiating its from it's, etc . . .
the commas is a slowing down or slight break, as it were..., and if one knows that there is a such thing as its and it's, then they don't need to remember which, but know when they want to use such to seek the correct information in a book.
no one or few of us remember all of these rules. but if you know that there is a difference in using, for example, "that" instead of "which" or "like" instead of "as," then u know that you need to look it up.
it is about levels. there are many people who speak well but write poorly....writing is serious business. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12682
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 11:17 pm: |
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People who speak well but write poorly must have some kind of disconnect. I guess it is a true gift to be able to coherently express your thoughts in writing.
I've found that I've never forgotten all of the little rules of grammar that I learned in grade school, but I guess I was fortunate enough to have had teachers who made learning fun, and class mates who wanted to learn. I know, I know. Times have changed. |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2500
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 01:57 pm: |
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it depends on if its contemporaneous speaking or not..., but if one has time to prepare, then it should be as organized and orderly as the well written essay. |
Libralind2
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 1085
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 10:52 pm: |
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OH HAIL NO..
LiLi skurid to speak |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1015
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 07:37 am: |
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Li-Li, would you hold my hand, after reading this thread I also need a hug. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12693
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 04:54 pm: |
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It should be noted that a question was posed in this thread and various posters offered their feed-back. Nobody suggested that it was imperative for Blacks to speak correct grammar. If they don't want to, they don't have to. Doing so is a matter of personal choice. |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1019
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 06:31 pm: |
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You're kidding me, Cyn-Cyn. You mean we all don't have to sound like you.  |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12694
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 07:36 pm: |
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It has nothing to do with "sound". |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2501
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 12:16 am: |
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Perhaps it is about sound, at least according to your previous comments. In your first post Cynique, you did say that it is "more about enuciation rather than correctness."
But I know what u meant . . . just messing with you, Cynique. |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1021
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 03:16 am: |
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Come on Cyn-Cyn, of course it's about sound, what are you talking about? Thump's original post talked about "hearing" others speak. Throughout the whole thread we've talked about how others "sound". Now I am sure you will not concede this point or mis-step on your part but please don't play yourself like that. Don't you have no shame. How does that sound to you......DON'T YOU HAVE NO SHAME. Opps, I forgot, you done already told us about dem dangling modifiers and dat der proper talk.
But of course you are going to spin it and say it's not about sound or that's not what you meant. See, I wasn't paying you no attention until you came up with that silly mess.
Besides, isn't communication it's best when those talking and those listening are on common ground. What's right, huh, who's right?
Practice this: "Yes, I was wrong, I was in such a hurry to throw salt on Carey that I made a mistake". Practice that, who knows it might get good to you  . |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12697
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 09:30 am: |
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Have you ever HEARD me talk, Carey? Be precise; all you can speculate about is what I write. You no NOTHING about my pronuciation or enunciation. If my answers are silly, they are in response to your silly comments. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12698
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 09:35 am: |
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I adjust to Carey's level when I respond to him, Yukio. I give his comments as much weight as I think they deserve.  |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12701
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 10:22 am: |
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Oh, OK. I apologize for not realizing that Carey didn't know the definition of the word "sound". And since he didn't participate in the discussion he can be excused for saying it was all about how people sound when is was actually about whether or not they used correct grammar when they spoke. |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1023
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 12:03 pm: |
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Ouch, stop hitting me in the gut . You're are so mean.
See, I knew you were going to put your evil spin on it. So, sound and enunciation have nothing in common???
Hey, I'll admit to being silly, no shame here, but that wiggly worm backstroke you do when you've stuck that big foot in your mouth is ugly. Yeah, I said it, BIG UGLY YELLOW FOOT IN YO MOUF .
Yukio is my partner, we go way back so don't be trying to call him into the fray. He's already said what he KNEW was correct. Now you know that boy got some great skills. I pick my fights and he's a little bit out of my league. So stop it, you can't explain it away. You laid an egg, period.
It was nice to see that you do have the word
apology in your vocabulary, you should use it more often.
Why don't you apologize to me, huh? Don't be saying for what, you know what, for always kicking me, stabbing me, hurting me. You are just a meanie! I see why ChrisHayden put you down. I know y'all got caught in that hideaway hotel but am just saying.....
Now stop it, am trying to be your friend. Can we kiss and make up? You know I love me some big ol'hefty black women. Yes sir, love'em like homemade biscits on Sunday morning, YUM YUM!
I bet inside that crusty layer is a sweet sensitive thang. That's it, here you go: ***smack...right on your cheek**** |
Thumper
Veteran Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 592
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 12:06 pm: |
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Hello,
Carey and Cynique - Go get a room, why don't cha! |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1024
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 12:24 pm: |
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See Thump, you done thrown my business all in the street, that's what I've been trying to say *LOL*. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12702
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 12:34 pm: |
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No, "sound" and "writing" have nothing in common, Carey. You may know how I write but you don't know how I sound.
And what's the big deal about us being friends? I don't really give a s h i t about gettin along with you or chrishayden.  |
Carey
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Carey
Post Number: 1028
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 08:11 pm: |
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Twizzle Twazzle Twizzle Twone, Time For This One To Come Home.
Well Cynique, it appears you've squandered your humor somewhere along the line and since you refuse to get a room like thump asked, it's time to call it a night.
See, I knew it was a rap when you put that white girl cry on me.
I must have been losing my mind. I got a women that loves my dirty drawers and I don't know why I spend so much time flirting with you *LOL*.
***My head is bowed, I am walking away***
Ooooh, the agony of it all! LATER |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12708
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 10:15 pm: |
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Buh Bye. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12709
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 10:22 pm: |
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