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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6569
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 03:16 pm: | 
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Why we line up for Tyler Perry
Monday, April 7th 2008, 4:00 AM
Angela Bassett is one of our finest actresses. She is such a master of the expression of human feeling that she doesn't need melodrama to communicate. Given that, why is Bassett starring in Tyler Perry's new comedy "Meet the Browns," which is so broad, so over the top and so given to sentimentality? Good question.
"Meet the Browns," like the rest of Perry's movies, is a big commercial success. All told, his movies have grossed in the neighborhood of $500 million. The man is something of an industry. But the box-office boom is a mystery to many. You can almost hear the muttered question hidden somewhere under the words of the lukewarm reviews: "Do those people really like this stuff?"
As usual, they know not what they ask - or from whence its tradition comes. It is too basic to us all.
You see, Tyler Perry made his reputation on the theatrical chitlin circuit of community black theater - in which much is accomplished by putting a man in a dress, making fun of the pretentiously illiterate, writing dialogue that is extremely obvious, and filling the mouths of the characters with threats, putdowns and puns so heavy that one could not lift them if they took the form of barbells.
Those black people who are not so estranged from Perry's kind of humor that they even find the inanely narcissistic "Seinfeld" sophisticated find something in Perry far less corny than what one encounters in the mush-mouthed posturing of hip hop's thug icons. The reason is that Perry's work always features a heart as big as it is tough. Never misses.
That quality is not so much ethnic as it is human and historic. Most of the situations and beliefs Perry presents have run through this country's comedy equivalent of bootleg liquor since the middle of the 19th century.
One of the basic strains of American comedy is that someone has lost a recognizable identity while climbing up the social stairs and must be brought back down to earth. Or someone innately noble must learn how shallow most of those who live upstairs are. Then there is the ongoing belief that all of the answers to the troubles of the world are back home somewhere - in the old neighborhood, or in the eccentric family that is just as wise as it is wacky.
What Perry has mastered is the perfect mix of buffoonery, anguish and spiritual redemption. He knows he can hold his audience with variations on slapstick, pies in the face and clown costumes as long as he does not avoid the sandpaper that has scraped the hearts of so many who are lost, living far above or all the way down at the bottom.
Finally, Perry knows that he must take his characters and his audience back to the church, where the greatest use of the English language other than Shakespeare lives. It's right there in the King James Bible, where forgiveness and redemption are made more than real in the big feeling of those who truly believe and who live it by the day.
Deep compassion is what makes the church so important, so touching and so powerful to so many. Those who go regularly maintain the essence of civilization, which is as much about morale as anything else. In the world of the black church, maintaining one's basic humanity is seen as an essential duty.
This last element of Perry's work speaks to a spiritual yearning common to Americans of all ethnic groups. The pain of these people - of the black folk he depicts - comes down to that fact that their souls have shriveled before a narcissism so focused on one's own mirror that the ennobling feeling of compassion is largely absent from daily life.
In Perry's work, we see the shallowness. We feel it. And, recognizing what is missing in these lives, we connect to something bigger.
That is Tyler Perry's great secret: He knows how to bring trash and soul together in a way that doesn't make one get in the way of the other. Like it or not, that is some form of genius.
crouch.stanley@gmail.com
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12032
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 08:45 pm: |
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Too bad that, unlike Stanley Crouch, you don't have enough insight and awareness to understand the impact of pop culture's role in the greater society, chrishayden. You're so busy calling everybody mundane and mediocre and phony that you are blinded by your own banality. |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1187
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 09:13 pm: |
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Tyler Perry's has hit on a formula that appeals to the masses. As long as he sticks to it he will have a long life in Hollywood and become a very rich man.
Kam interviewd Angela Bassett recently: http://reviews.aalbc.com/angelabassett.htm
"...why is Bassett starring in Tyler Perry's new comedy "Meet the Browns,"... would have been a good question, if one expected an honest answer.
I would go see Meet the Brown, in the theater; but Kam gave it 3 stars (out of 4) http://aalbc.com/reviews/meet_the_browns.htm.
I dont go to 2 star movies and I know I have to take a full star off Kam's rating of Tyler Perry movies.
I have not really enjoyed anything from Perry since I saw Madea's family reunion, everything else just seems like the same old story told all over again.
...but of course that is just me and I don't like very many movies.
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Rondall
Moderator
Username: Rondall
Post Number: 102
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 09:01 am: |
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I agree with you Troy except I have not really liked any of his movies/plays/etc. I support him because he is doing big things on a big stage. He seems to be a very positive role model but his work is not something I find to my liking. I can get a few laughs here and there...
There some very, very talented Black writers out there but not everyone wants to challenged with substance. Hence we have many of the books published ("Momma's Hot Itch"...?) and movies released ("Soul Plane") because someone is banking on that they will appeal to -the masses-.
I am sure Tyler Perry is being pressured to stick with the formula (so I hope) because that is what got him there and that's what he is being PAID4. I don't find he characterization of Blacks negative nor would I accept it as stereotypical. But people identify with those characters and at least for right now are very loyal in following them.
It is not worth disparaging Tyler Perry nor his success. I would rather see him trying to provide a moral to the story (he tries...I know he does) than find atypical Hollywood pushing their version.
Hmmmmm...I think I will submit an idea to the Warner Brothers. |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2220
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 06:02 pm: |
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Daddy's Little Girls, while it had some elements that could be construed by some as stereotypical was not Perry's usual fare. I actually thought it was a great movie.
I think we need to quit being ashamed of some black people's stories and let them just be what they are--one person's interpretation of life as they see it. Perry has no obligation to write differently, despite what some perceive as a "sameness".
My grandma used to say every story that a person can talk about been told a time or two already. It ain't what's being told its how you tell it. |
Connie_briscoe
Regular Poster
Username: Connie_briscoe
Post Number: 25
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 07:15 am: |
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Tyler Perry's films can get too sentimental or corny at times, but I'm just happy to see that we can have hit films and a hot filmmaker outside the usual gansta-talking or violence-ridden film. When someone has tried to do black family or relationship films before they generally were not big successes (remember Love Jones?), with a few exceptions (e.g., Terry McMillan's books). Tyler uses comedy and a light-hearted touch to hook the audience and he may overdo it at at times but I applaud his success. We are too often so critical about our successes--harder on ourselves than anyone else is--but that's a whole other subject.
www.conniebriscoe.com
On Writing and Promoting Your Book |
Rondall
Moderator
Username: Rondall
Post Number: 104
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 09:08 am: |
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I asked this question last night at the dinner table and would like to pose it to all of you:
How would you feel about Tyler Perry's movies if they were by done someone White? Written by, directed by, produced by Percival Rutherford Smithers... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12037
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 02:16 pm: |
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Black people would be offended if a white movie-maker did the kind of films that Tyler Perry does. This has to do with how all ethnic groups reserve the right to caricaturize themselves, but they resent it when others stereotype them. IMO. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6570
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 10:30 am: |
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How would you feel about Tyler Perry's movies if they were by done someone White? Written by, directed by, produced by Percival Rutherford Smithers...
(I will have to give that more thought. I KNOW I would't like it if the white guy dressed up in drag like a middle aged black woman--then again I might let that pass if he was really funny and dead on.
Some white people have done black people real good and all you can do is laugh) |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1190
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 08:07 pm: |
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A_womon I just now went to netflix and pushed Daddy Little Girls to the top of the queue.
I better like it or I'm going to come and get you!
Netflix predicts that I would give it 3.5 stars based upon my previous ratings. The average user rating is 3.9 (out of 5). This is a really cool feature of Netflix. I found a really great movie by choose a movie it thought I would rate highly.
Rondall if a movie is excellent I really don't care what color the writer, producer, or director is.
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A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2221
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 05:03 am: |
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Troy,
HAHAHAHHAHA! Ok. ! Try not to be a "critical watcher" I know you gon' let us know what you think! |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2222
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 05:20 am: |
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Rondall,
White people write about black people all the time in movies, and books, just like we write about white people in books and movies. This is not a new thing. Sometimes white people capture the essence of who we are and it's totally not offensive. Think of James Patterson writing about Alex Cross and his family. Then think about the African American woman who wrote the Matrix, or the one who wrote Grey's Anatomy.
I think the real problem lies in black people being overly concerned --still--about white peoples peception of us as we reflect our lives or our fantasies in books and on film. It's like some of us can't move beyond forever seeking the white stamp of approval on everything. Nobody likes everything and really why do we care so much? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12051
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 12:27 pm: |
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IMO, I don't agree that white and black people write about each other all of the time in movies or in books, either, except as marginal characters. Black and white people may direct movies and TV shows about each other, but they don't write the stories they are based upon, most of which contain characters who are not race-based. And I, personally, have never appreciated James Patterson's awkard attempt to replicate black life via Alex Cross, the detective character he created. Patterson has simply white-washed Alex and bent over backwards to make him not conform to what we expect of black people. (I remember there was quite a flap when Martin Scorsece wanted to direct the movie based on Malcolm X's life, because black people protested. Spike Lee, of course, ended up directing this movie. Steven Spielburg also took heat for directing The Color Purple, especially for how he allowed black men to be portrayed in this film) |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2225
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 01:17 pm: |
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You of course are entitled to your opinion as I am mine and I stick by what I said in my post. In my world it is a fact of life and I and others greatly enjoy James Patterson's portryal of Alex Cross and his family, but I expect you to disagree with anything and everything I post so by now it is no big deal. |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2226
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 01:22 pm: |
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And Steven Barnes has both written and directed movies about and by white people, just to continue my list of Black people who have==quite succssfully I might add== written about white people. Read some of the classics and you will also find this to be quite true. Richard Wright for example... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12054
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 01:51 pm: |
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What white people do you know who have written books about black life, a_womon? What black people have written books about white life? Having minor characters in a book who are of a different race than that of the author is not relevant to the question Rondall proposed.
And the appeal of The Alex Cross series has to do with things other than the fact that he represents an authentic black person. It's about the mystery and intrigue of the plots.
There were black characters all through "Gone With The Wind" by white Margaret Mitchell and she was despised by Blacks because of how she portrayed them.
Name me a classic book where the main character and his dilemmas are black and they author is white. Othello was a Moor but the story wasn't about him being black; it was about the universal themes of betrayal and lust.
And contrary to your paranoia, you aren't the only person I disagree with. |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2228
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 01:59 pm: |
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I already named two writers who are sisters who have white people as central characters. GREY'S ANATOMY and THE MATRIX both were written by sisters and both are teeming with white central characters.
And Alex Cross is a central, starring character |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2229
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 02:02 pm: |
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I addresses Rondalls question the way I wanted to. And in fact what I didn't say , but was thinking was along the lines of your reply to him-you addressed it so there was no need for me to. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12055
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 02:07 pm: |
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The examples you cite are not books about black life. They are books with black characters who are a part of an interracial cast and a neutral setting. Cosby had as the consultant on his series which was about "family life", psychologist Alex Poinsette, to make sure the integrated writing staff got it right when it came to portraying black characters.
Alex Cross could be purple. His race is not central to the plots of this series. |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2230
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 02:48 pm: |
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Who said that it had to be about black life? YOU did. I said Black people and white people write about each other all the time AND THEY DO. You interpreted that they way you wanted.
So he could be purple but he AINT. He's Black and a white man invented this Black character. A character who meets all of the criteria that you injected into this thread and you are now trying to disqualify Alex Cross because he fits your own criteria so perfectly. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12058
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 03:42 pm: |
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My whole thing is that it's presumptuous for white people to write about black life, and vice versa. There's a difference between writing stories with universal themes that have black characters in the cast as opposed to composing a story about black people in black situations the way Tyler Perry does.
You addresssed your post to Rondall, answering a question that he didn't ask.
James Patterson is not a white man writing about black life, but my gripe with him was was that he was patronizing in creating the token character of Alex Cross, probably to broaden the base of his readership and sell more books. |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 170
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 10:23 am: |
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How would you feel about Tyler Perry's movies if they were by done someone White? Written by, directed by, produced by Percival Rutherford Smithers...
This question got me thinking about TV shows like Good Times and The Jeffersons and others from that era. Here's an interview Jimi Izrael did with Eric Monte, black TV writer and co-creator of What's Happening? and Good Times:
http://www.jimiizrael.com/2005/04/eric_monte_uncut.html |
Rondall
Moderator
Username: Rondall
Post Number: 109
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 10:58 am: |
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Okay...to note on both of your observations:
A_womon: I see your point but I would like to point out that the examples you gave seem to focus on specific characters rather than our cultural experience as a whole. Tyler Perry's movies are blatantly "for us by us" type of genre. Hollywood now considers this a very viable source of income (considering the production cost for most of these movies are minuscule). And I agree that White writers are quite capable of developing and incorporating Black characters without marginalizing them, but could they really reflect the our nature?
Cynique: I could not imagine the difficulty of writing a cross cultural movie especially if the movie is targeted for a specific ethnic group. However, this brings to mind that "Sparkle" was written by Howard Rosenman and Joel Schumacher (who would have thought).
Tyler Perry has continued to grow his cult like following by providing an outlet for us to laugh at beloved caricatures that edify us as we laugh. I am still not confident that this day in age that we would establish the same type of following if the writer was White.
I am gracious for both of your inputs and thoughts. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6578
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 12:40 pm: |
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IMO, I don't agree that white and black people write about each other all of the time in movies or in books, either, except as marginal characters
(Nonsense. That's all Samuel R. Delaney wrote about. And how about Richard Wright. He had white characters in his books--the communist lawyer at the end takes over the story. And what about--I can't call his name--he wrote nothing but white characters in them bodice rippers.
And what about the guy who wrote the story that was made into the Catfish row musical--Porgy and Bess. And what about Harriet Beecher Stowe with Uncle Tom's Cabin.
William Styron with The Confessions of Nat Turner.
Wrong again, Cynique. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6579
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 12:41 pm: |
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Frank Yerby. That's the brother's name. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12070
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 12:46 pm: |
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The names of the guys who wrote Sparkle sound distinctily Jewish, Rondall. And because of their long history of being despised and rejected, Jews always seemed to have a special empathy for the black experience. Plus, as I recall, there was nothing uniquely-black about Sparkle's plot, was there? Wasn't it simply about the trials and tribulations of show biz aspirations? |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 173
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 12:56 pm: |
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The names of the guys who wrote Sparkle sound distinctily Jewish, Rondall. And because of their long history of being despised and rejected, Jews always seemed to have a special empathy for the black experience.
Hit or miss. "What's Happening" comes to mind. Also, Eric Monte's experience with the Jewish shotcallers behind "Good Times", etc., doesn't indicate such empathy. I've read elsewhere that both John Amos and Esther Rolle were vocal about their disagreement of some of the portrayals of black life and character. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12071
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 01:01 pm: |
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Frank Yerby wrote historical epics about creoles back during slavery days. And Frank Styron was greatly criticized by black historians for his portrayal of Nat Turner because he presumed to dissect the psyche of a black slave. I repeat: it's one thing to inject black characters into a plot about white people or white characters in a plot about black people as Richard Wright did, but this is not comparable to what Tyler Perry does. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12073
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 01:10 pm: |
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You're right, FK, John and Esther did contstantly argue with Jewish producer Norman Lear about how the black characters were portrayed in "Good Times". This is at the root of my argument. I said that it was presumptuous for black people or white people to write about the typical lives of each other. I got carried away with saying that this has never been done, but when it is done, it is usually superficial. IMO |
Ferociouskitty
Veteran Poster
Username: Ferociouskitty
Post Number: 174
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 01:12 pm: |
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What are your thoughts on Porgy and Bess? It's considered a classic, and yet some blacks loathe it. I've never seen it, just know the words to "Summertime." ;-) |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12075
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 01:25 pm: |
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Well, I've never read the book, FK, but I have seen the movie based on the Broadway musical, and it garnered a lot of criticism because it was rife with black stereotypes: the trickster, the heartless Jezabel, the woe begotten black man; no tragic mulatto however. Just a bunch of poor ol black folks singin and dancin, laughin and cryin around the wharves of Cat Fish Row. And I should remind chrishayden, that the term "Uncle Tom" originated with Harriet Beecher's Stowe's "Uncle Tom's Cabin". |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6586
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 02:06 pm: |
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What are your thoughts on Porgy and Bess? It's considered a classic, and yet some blacks loathe it. I've never seen it, just know the words to "Summertime
(I hate it. "Bess you is my woman now--) |
Rondall
Moderator
Username: Rondall
Post Number: 110
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 04:02 pm: |
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Ditto Chrishayden! However, I do have a strong affinity for the music...
Samuel R. Delaney...wrote science fiction primarily?
Harriet Beecher Stowe<<<I cringe at her portrial of us folks.
And again, the incorporation of a characters from different ethnicities is completely different than reflecting the relative depth of the culture of an ethnic group.
But that's entertainment... |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6587
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 04:53 pm: |
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Samuel R. Delaney...wrote science fiction primarily?
(That's all he wrote up until the 70's and 80's when he started with the fantasy and non fiction |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6589
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 04:58 pm: |
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Cynique takes it on the chin again
Frank Garvin Yerby (September 5, 1916 – November 29, 1991) was an American historical novelist. His best known work is The Man from Dahomey (1971).[citation needed]
Born in Augusta, Georgia to Rufus Garvin Yerby, an African American, and Wilhelmina Smythe, who was caucasian, Yerby was originally noted for writing romance novels set in the Antebellum South. In mid-century he embarked on a series of best-selling historical novels ranging from the Athens of Pericles to Europe in the Dark Ages. Yerby took considerable pains in research, and often footnoted his historical novels.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12077
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 05:10 pm: |
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Yerby was equally famous for "The Foxes of Harrow" and its sequels and this novel which was made into a movie. Biracial Yerby was probably the first author to bring "Mandigos" to the attention of the general public. Nothing you added contradicted what I wrote, crissy, or puts bi-racial Yerby in a category with Tyler Perry. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12082
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 05:48 pm: |
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My final say on this subject, is that I am of the opinion that term "black experience" exists for a reason. In America, a white person who attempts to replicate this mystique in a fictional or comedic setting is treading on a slippery slope.
In a non-fiction/historical context, events may be compiled and researched, but the soul of a black person cannot be permeated by a white author |
Rondall
Moderator
Username: Rondall
Post Number: 111
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 06:45 pm: |
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Yeh, kind seems like that and y'all know how meh hates agreeing with Cynique. ;' ) |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 6591
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 10:55 am: |
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In mid-century he embarked on a series of best-selling historical novels ranging from the Athens of Pericles to Europe in the Dark Ages.
What part of that don't you understand, Cynique.
IF he was bi racial, was he an Athenian in the days of Pericles?
You are WRONG Cynique. Flat WRONG.
You were blowing smoke. Admit it and we can move on. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12085
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 01:06 pm: |
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I cited examples of Whites who had written books with Blacks in them and who had been criticized for being inaccurate and I also asked how many black authors did we know who wrote novels about white life. You are blowing smoke about there being one half-black man who wrote historical novels about Greeks and Europeans. I do confess that I was thinking in terms of the racial dynamic that exists here in American culture. And excuse me if I was influenced by the original question asked in regard to whether black people would be offended if a white person wrote and produced movies like the ones that Tyler Perry does. Now, we can move on. |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1209
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 02:56 pm: |
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Awoman, I watched Daddy's Little Girls last night. I would give it 2 out of 5 stars.
I know you said don't watch it critically, and I tried to keep an open mind and just go with the flow, but the movie simply did not work for me.
I was even willing to go with the movie's premise that a fine, smart, financially successful sister could not find a man -- not even a date on her own.
The movie seemed too create drama simply for the sake of pulling on your heart strings. The situations were either too contrived or implausible to be believed.
Here is an example; Gabrielle Union's charatcer was being constantly hooked up with blind dates with comically terrible guys. However when she deals with a brother, admittedly with issues, but far better than the losers her girls hooked her up with -- they come down on her so cruely that it does not make sense.
There were too many of these character inconsistencies for me to get with the movie. The language used by the professional black women sister friends was just too silly to be believed.
The baby momma played by Tasha Smith (http://reviews.aalbc.com/tasha_smith.htm) was just too over the top. Perhaps it was the overacting, the hyper-stereotypical language, or the lack of character developement, either way that character did not work at all.
The movie's only saving grace was that Idris and Gabrielle can act. They put in performances good enough, despite the material, to allow me to tolerate the movie to its implausible, but predicatable conclusion.
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A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2240
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 09:20 pm: |
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Troy,
Well, I guess I have to respect your opinion about the movie, but I disagree very strongly with it. Also, you were supposed to be watching to tell us if it could be categorized as TP's usual fare. Which I still maintain it isn't. You didn't mention this.
I happen to like all of TP's movies, but Daddy's Little Girls stood out for me.
I think our problem as a whole is that we are hypercritical of anything done by our people, therefore, we are not as willing to suspend reality and just enjoy the movie without picking it apart.
Yet, we and when I say we I'm not being all inclusive,are more willing to suspend reality when it comes to watching movies/television shows written by whites. I mean some of the movies are just plain ridiculous, like a Mission Impossible, for example, we needed to suspend reality to believe that a person could put on a mask realistic enough to pass for a person and interact with the persons family and close friends and avoid anyone discovering the masquerade. You know?
But we watch and enjoy and don't pick these dumb movies apart, do we? But...to each his own, I guess. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12134
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 11:33 pm: |
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Just because Troy had a problem with this movie doesn't make it "our" problem. Obviously enough black people enjoy Tyler Perry movies for them to net millions of dollars at the box office. Perry's movies are examples of broad comedy. To compare them to movies of the action-adventure genre is like mixing apples and oranges. "Evan Almighty" starring Morgan Freeman as God would be an example of a comedy that requires viewers to suspended their belief system, but the difference between this movie and a Tyler Perry one is that the humor in "Evan Almighty" appeals to a wide audience, rather than a particular ethnicity. |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2241
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 03:18 am: |
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First of all if you read more carefully you would have seen that I wrote "when I said we I'm not being all inclusive" that should have given you a clue that I wasn't making it OUR problem, but was addressing those who do. And YES some people do have this problem.
And I can cite any movie that I please to make a point. I cited MP to give an example of how we suspend reality and don't pick certain movies apart, so it really is irrelevent as to whether or not the movie is action, drama, or comedy. And you suspend reality whenever you watch or a creation of a story spun from anyone's imagination. If you didn't you would think you were watching a true story, |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1212
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 10:37 am: |
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A_woman, I saw Diary of a Mad Black Woman which I also disliked for similiar reasons. I also saw the film versions of 2 or 3 of the stage plays all of which I did not care for save Madea's Family reunion which I thought was funny.
Madea's Family reunion was the first thing of Tyler Perry's that I watched. I disliked everything else I saw so I've given up -- with the recent exception of Daddy's Little Girls.
I guess I would categorize it as Tylers standard fare as of late. Put it this way; I did not see the movie Meet The Browns (http://aalbc.com/reviews/meet_the_browns.htm) or Why Did I Get Married? (http://aalbc.com/reviews/why_did_i_get_married.htm) but I can guess that each movie does the following:
There is a character who is essentially a good person, trying to do the right thing, but is met with tremendous challenges. To compound things that person is challenged by other people who are extremely cruel and heartless unable to see good in the person.
Our protaganist usually makes a diversion to a church, and/or received the council of an elderly (typically off beat) sage where wisdon or strength is dispensed. There is usually some gospel singing thrown in for good measure.
Ultimately a knight in shining armor, manifests from some unlikely or previously over looked source.
By the end of the movie the bad are vaquished, and the good live happily ever after.
Am I right about both of these movies, or at least close?
Look there is a NOTHING wrong with Perry's formula. It clearly reasonates with a lot of people -- including my movie critic.
Perry's formaula simply does not work for me.
There are people who love romance novels, which similiarly follow a pretty rigid structure. The heroine better get the bare chested man, with the long flowing hair, by the end of the book or somebody f'ed up.
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A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2242
Registered: 05-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 11:23 am: |
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"..There is a character who is essentially a good person, trying to do the right thing, but is met with tremendous challenges... Ultimately a knight in shining armor, manifests from some unlikely or previously over looked source."
Troy, you just named the must haves of EVERY story. Hero/heroine wants something and things happen to prevent hero/heroine from obtaining/attaining said something = CONFLICT
Ultimately a knight in shining armor....= RESOLUTION ( not every story has to have a knight in shining armor- but I get what you mean though most editors want the hero/heroine to rescue themselves from peril)
The only thing missing from the equation is what's at stake--the characters must have something at risk---other than that--you pretty much have listed all of the elements of a good story. I would imagine that ALL stories, whether they are movie scripts or otherwise, have to contain these elements or it's no good.
Having said that, I do understand that not everyone will love TP, but that's how it goes. I still think you read it with your critics cap on and you didn't suspend reality and take the story for what it was worth, though. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12137
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 12:57 pm: |
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You keep making as the core of your argument your notion that the reason black people don't like TP's movies is because they can't suspend reality, a-womon. But the argument could be made that the reason black people who don't like TP movies react negatively is because TP's pictures are too close to the reality, too reflective of the way a certain element of Blacks act, and this is off-putting.
Bottom line is that people like or dislike TP films for their own personal reasons and having some other person telling them why they like or dislike these movies can be presumptuous. |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2243
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 01:22 pm: |
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First of all if you read more carefully you would have seen that I wrote "when I said we I'm not being all inclusive" that should have given you a clue that I wasn't making it OUR problem, but was addressing those who do. And YES some people do have this problem.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12144
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 02:46 pm: |
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Well, gee, you could've avoided having to addend an after thought by simply not referring to it as "our" problem in the first place since you claim to be aware that this didn't apply to everyone.  |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2244
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 06:38 pm: |
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hmmph. Ya don't say? Well what do you know about that! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12148
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 07:31 pm: |
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More than you do, obviously.  |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2245
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 12:22 am: |
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Do tell? Really. A legend in your own mind if I've ever seen one! HA!
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 12150
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 02:44 am: |
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Puleeze. It doesn't take a "legend" to know more than you.  |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2246
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 03:06 am: |
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Anyway... |
A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2247
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 03:10 am: |
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On to more interesting things... |
Arioso_hum
Regular Poster
Username: Arioso_hum
Post Number: 46
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 10:49 am: |
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I still like the input. |
Troy
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 1217
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 05:22 am: |
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A_womon, sure there is a formula. I should have been clearer.
I stated their is nothing "wrong" with using a formula; indeed Perry's formula obviously works as evidenced by his hordes of fans and resulting wealth.
Tyler's formula does not work with me. His dialog is cliche driven and does not ring true to me. His characterizations of professionals is so off base it is almost demeaning. Yes, I know that is supposed to be funny but it falls flat.
I was not watching the movie to be critical -- I wanted to enjoy it. However I did think about what I did not like and am attempting to articulate it here (apparently without much success).
I can think of many movies with situations far more outlandish that those posed in a Tyler Perry flick and therefore required a more effort to "suspend reality".
Some of those that come to mind quickly are Silence of the Lambs, The Matrix (written by a sister I hear), and Pulp Fiction, each of these movies presented situations that were highly implausible, but I was drawn into to them because everything made sense in the way it was presented.
The characters were believable, and you cared about them no matter how bizzare the situation.
Now Kam Williams listed Tyler Perry's flicks as #1 & #2 (amoung Black films) for 2007
http://www.aalbc.com/reviews/blacktrospective_2007.htm. So I appreciate that I can completely disagree with people I like and respect (like you A_womom).
However, the African American Film Critic's Association (AAFCA) did not include any of Perry's Movies in the top 10.
http://aalbc.com/reviews/aafca_best_picture_2007.htm
While I don't agree with the AAFCA's selections completely my personal views are much more in line the moives they have selected.
(note: the AAFCA's selections were across all movies not just "Black" ones.
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A_womon
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 2248
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 05:08 pm: |
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"So I appreciate that I can completely disagree with people I like and respect (like you A_womon)."
Awwwwwwww! Thank you and right back at you Mr. Troy!
And I did get what you're saying, I said that not everyone will like TP. I'm just one who does. (Shoutout TP!)
Thanks to you too, Rondall. Nice to have your input around here again too!
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