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Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 766
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 08:57 am: | 
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The Invisible Manuscript
Ralph Ellison died leaving four decades' worth of scribbled notes, thousands of typed pages and 80 computer disks filled with work on an ambitious second novel. For 14 years, a pair of literary detectives labored to fit the pieces together. Now they're ready to share with the world.
By Wil Haygood
Sunday, August 19, 2007; W22
Read the rest of this Article: http://tinyurl.com/22k6uq
Side Bar: A very well known author shared this story with me earlier. They said they would have posted it here but would rather avoid the potential drama. I thought that was a shame. Though I think the reaction was probably unnecessary for this type of post I hear where the person is coming from.
Thumper's corner is not unique in that regard as "flaming" not the gay kind a poster has been around as long as the internet. However I do at time wish we could find a better balance that does not require moderation and alienates fewer people.
The discussion here can be quite compelling and I think would be even more so, if we got a few more of the many lurkers to participate.
Peace |
Emanuel
Regular Poster
Username: Emanuel
Post Number: 346
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 09:46 am: |
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Very fascinating article. It's rare that I ever read entire articles online without either giving up or just printing them to read them better but I had to hang in there for this one. I look forward to reading the new novel when it's released. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9648
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 01:21 pm: |
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Ditto! |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2195
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 01:29 pm: |
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Thumper's corner is not unique in that regard as "flaming" ... a poster has been around as long as the internet. However I do at time wish we could find a better balance that does not require moderation and alienates fewer people.
So nice I thought we should post it twice!  So what is the solution? |
Schakspir
Veteran Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 1154
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 02:41 pm: |
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Bloody fascinating. |
Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 771
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 03:52 pm: |
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Yvettep a moderator would do the trick.
But the moderator would have to know, for example, that a flame involving Cynique vs. Chrishayden is fine but, Kola vs Thumper is not. The lines are not always clear...
Either way this would have to be a compensated role. As good volunteers, that I can trust, are hard to come by.
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Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2198
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 07:25 pm: |
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Troy, at the minor league baseball stadium here they have a section called the "family section." There, no one is to drink, curse, or otherwise behave in a fashion that you wouldn't want your 4 year old exposed to. The times that I have been there, it has been wonderful. No one officially polices anyone, yet all abide by the rules. Folks are fully aware that if they want to call a player an effin bum and spit and get crazy drunk, they have plenty of other seating areas where they can freely engage in this behavior.
Maybe we can have an area of TC designated as a "no flame zone"? |
Thumper
Regular Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 490
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 07:43 pm: |
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Hello All,
I heard about the second coming of Ellison'sscond novel at the BEA. I do believe that Callahan got a raw deal when Juneteenth was published. As the article stated, he did write in the Afterword that a more complete version of the novel would be forthcoming. I love Juneteenth, so I'm looking forward to the new novel. |
Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 772
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 10:13 pm: |
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Yvettep, the flame free zone would have to be policed otherwise people would just abuse it. I can guarantee that.
See part of the problem is that most of y'all are anonymous so under that cloak people are free to say or do anything -- and they do.
I've banned a ton of people and deleted even more posts during the past year than in all previous years combined.
Then there are the spammers. 90% of the new account requests are spammers. Automated programs can sign up for an account and even post if I did not manually approve accounts -- which is another pain. |
Emanuel
Regular Poster
Username: Emanuel
Post Number: 348
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 12:45 am: |
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A real names forum would be so great. Then folks might think twice about what they say rather than hiding under the cloak of anonymity. I've seen other sites that require real names for sign up. |
Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 773
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 08:25 am: |
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You might be right Emanuel. A real name forum solely for the discussion of books.
But one disadvantange is that some of what is said under a handle is much more honest than what would be said using a real name.
There are valid reasons to disquise one's identity. The inability to do that could adversely effect the discussion as well...
Would we have been able to enjoy the posts of Thumper or ABM and so many others if they were required to reveal their true identities?
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5112
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 10:27 am: |
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Side Bar: A very well known author shared this story with me earlier. They said they would have posted it here but would rather avoid the potential drama. I thought that was a shame. Though I think the reaction was probably unnecessary for this type of post I hear where the person is coming from.
(Troy:
Writers are notoriously sensitive and thin skinned. That is why they usually become writers and not actors singers etc in that they have trouble facing the public. They probably have more recluses, paranoids and psychopaths per capita than any other art.
Then add to this that this is an internet lurker.
Think. This is a person who can come here and post anonymously and is so afraid of what other anonymous posters will post that he can't do it.
There is nothing that will help him.
Now, if you think that you may be missing something because these myopic paranoid poindexters are afraid to post, think again.
I got this same post a couple days ago because I participate in edrum.
If it is good, it will make it here.
I say if you can't stand the cyber heat, stay out of the cyber kitchen. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5113
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 10:28 am: |
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Thumper's corner is not unique in that regard as "flaming" ... a poster has been around as long as the internet. However I do at time wish we could find a better balance that does not require moderation and alienates fewer people.
So nice I thought we should post it twice! So what is the solution?
(Mass exterminations and euthenasia. If Cynique can take it anybody ought to be able to) |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 5595
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 11:25 am: |
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Myopic Paranoid Poindexters  |
Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 777
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 11:36 am: |
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While "mass exterminations and euthenasia" would solve this problem and many of society's ills; implementing this solution causes other problems, disposal of bodies, eternal damnation, etc.
In this case, I know the reluctant poster well enough to know that they are not exactly "thin skinned".
But even if they were a; "myopic paranoid poindexters"; they and others like them are capable of contributing something of worth to this discussion and should be encouraged to do so.
Besides it is a lot less messy than genocide.
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Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2201
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 12:18 pm: |
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Would we have been able to enjoy the posts of Thumper or ABM and so many others if they were required to reveal their true identities?
I guess we'll never know. Maybe I should not speak to this issue, as I have always posted under my own name. I am sure others have their reasons for doing otherwise. But using my own name does make me responsible for what I say. I do not believe such discussions would automatically be less "honest"--particularly if the topics were constrained to something like books.
Perhaps the length of time when a poster could delete his/her own posts would help calm some folks' fears about saying things they later regret? I don't know. But if what you say is true, that people would not self-police in a single limited "no flame" zone without a "thread-nanny" when they have the whole rest of the board to engage in sparring, then that's too bad. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9651
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 12:47 pm: |
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I'm amazed at how clueless the glib chrishayden continues to be, never recognizing that he and his ego-fueled attempts at assassinating the character of anyone who is not in awe of him, is a part of the problem, not the solution.
And any writer who is intimidated by this board, must harbor secret fears about not being good enough at what they do. Presumably what a writer writes is for public consumption and if he or she fears disapproval, then they are in the wrong profession. |
Emanuel
Regular Poster
Username: Emanuel
Post Number: 349
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 01:46 pm: |
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It's been my experience that many messageboard posters have two or three aliases on one board. Sometimes they even argue with each other in a strange, bi-polar sort of way. This is especially true of folks who have a product or service to sell and want to start a controversial discussion because controversy sells. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9657
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 01:53 pm: |
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You got that right, Emanuel! That is certainly the tactic of a certain "wanna-be" on this board who shall remain nameless. |
Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 779
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 06:45 pm: |
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Cynique, is the namesless one Voldermort?
Yvettep, do we know each other off the board? I will increase the length of time a poster can delete their own posts now.
Emanuel, I would image the vast majority of posters do not have conversations with themselves. But as with most things it one take a few to screw things up for many...
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Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2202
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 08:23 pm: |
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LOL, Troy--I do not believe so. At one point I think you mentioned being an engineering major and for some reason I thought we might have been at Purdue at the same time. But then you told me you were not fortunate enough to have obtained a degree as a Boilermaker, so... |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5128
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 10:29 am: |
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Troy:
One thing this tells you is that you must be making some waves. Stirring up some notice and comment.
This is your site. You can and should do with it what you will.
All I would advise is that you ask anybody with any suggestions for change--
1) Is they gonna give you any MONEY
2) Will they guarentee increased hits and ads on your site.
Other than that, I'd ignore it.
You know how cowardly and jealous our people are. |
Thumper
Regular Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 492
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 09:21 pm: |
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Hello All,
Yvettep: You may have Troy and I confused. I'm the one who has an engineering degree from Purdue. When did you attend Purdue? I graduated in 1992. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2209
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 10:11 pm: |
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Hey, I was there during that time! I'm prolly lots older than you, tho (MS program). I didn't know many engineering types--y'all were pretty studious LOL. But you may have seen me if you ever checked out any Haraka events at the BCC. |
Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy
Post Number: 783
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 10:02 am: |
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Hey Chris I appreciate the advise, but as you know, especially if you read that other active conversation about "We gotta do better"; You know while "Money, Hits and Ads" are definitely a factor they are definitely not the only motivation. But I hear where you are coming from.
Seriously, one of the main reasons sites fail to attract and grow visitors is a lack of content. The old adage: "Content is King" is paramount.
You can't generate money, get advertising, over the long haul with out content.
So when a couple of people mess that up I get concerned. Because everything else driven from content.
Add to that the mission of exposing visitors to the wide variety of our literature past and present, then you have a better idea of where I'm coming from.
So while I appreciate that many of even AALBC.com visitors are not interested in Ralph Waldo Ellison (http://authors.aalbc.com/ellison.htm). I do know there are more than a few that would love to learn more about him and would be fascinated by his next novel.
I was just disappointed that someone did not feel conformable enough to share such important information direct and rather sent it to me to share with y'all.
At the end of the day (Europeans love that line) The information was relayed. It just was not done in the most efficient manner.
Yvettep, I do recall you asking me that question -- it was at least a couple of years ago.
Thumper I did not realize that you were that much younger than me. I have to now put in you into that box where I group people who never knew a world without Rap music -- I'll try not to hold it against you! 
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Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 5137
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 10:14 am: |
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I was just disappointed that someone did not feel conformable enough to share such important information direct and rather sent it to me to share with y'all.
(He's a wimp. All black people are not strong. In fact being human most of them are weak. As I said, any number of subscribers to edrum could have gotten it to you--in fact, don't you subscribe to it? I see your newsletters on there all the time) |
Bookgirl
Regular Poster
Username: Bookgirl
Post Number: 132
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2007 - 05:54 pm: |
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"a world without rap music" . . .I remember that! LOL |
Thumper
Regular Poster
Username: Thumper
Post Number: 493
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2007 - 09:23 pm: |
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Hello Troy,
I beg your pardon. *smile* I am younger than you but I'm not THAT much younger. Actually, I do remember a world without rap music very well. When I think about all of the variety shows that were on the air and how it was nothing special to see Gladys Kinght and the Pips, or the Temptations or Aretha Franklin singing. We can't get that now, huh? |
Zane
Newbie Poster
Username: Zane
Post Number: 45
Registered: 11-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:24 pm: |
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After reading the posts, some of them amusing--Chris--I have decided to post this one. I sent Troy the link to the article about Ralph Ellison. Troy already stated that I am not "thin-skinned." Let me add that I am not jealous, wimpy, weak or afraid either. I simply refuse to tolerate a bunch of drama at this point in my life. Why? Because I do not have to.
I do often visit this site and read the posts but that does not really make me a lurker. I read a lot of boards but rarely, if ever, post. However, I did feel that the information was valuable and was surprised that it was not already posted on the site. I actually read the hard copy of the article in the Washington Post Magazine the day it came out.
Anyway, now people can stop pondering over who the "frightened one" is.
Controversy follows me every single day of my life.
Zane |
Steve_s
Regular Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 289
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 06:42 pm: |
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Hello, Thumper,
I plan to read the variorum edition of Ralph Ellison's second novel, whether he calls it Three Days Before the Shooting, Junesixteenth, or Callahan's Clearwater Revival and Traveling Salvation Show
Did you know that in 2001, the estate of Ralph Ellison (John Callahan) threatened to block publication of then 32-year old Howard University English professor Lawrence Jackson's biography, "Ralph Ellison: Emergence of Genius," if he did not remove a 3,000 word section which contained quotes from Ellison's correspondence with Richard Wright which were in the Yale library and apparently available to the public? Read about that here:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_23_19/ai_96811003
Did you know that John S. Wright's critical study, "Shadowing Ralph Ellison" (2006) contains a note to the reader in which the author explains his agreement with John Callahan to refrain from discussing the novel "Juneteenth" in the text?
It stands to reason that if John Callahan exercised that much control over the contents of an unauthorized biography and a critical study, he had equal or greater control over the authorized biography by Mr. Rampersad.
It blows my mind that Lawrence Jackson was only 33 when he produced a work of that depth.
His deconstruction of the politics surrouunding the critical reception of "Invisible Man," contained in a paperback titled "A Historical Guide to Ralph Ellison," Steven C. Tracy, ed. is essential reading as it cuts through many of the stereotypes used to explain why it won the National Book Award, why his literary legacy thrived when others' did not. |
Steve_s
Regular Poster
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 290
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 04:36 pm: |
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Thumper, I apologize for botching the quote from John S. Wright who actually writes:
"I have chosen not to address at any length here the vexed matter of Ellison's unfinished novel and the fragment published as Juneteenth (1999) at Fanny Ellison's request and with John Callahan's editorial assistance. Professor Callahan has acknowledged scrupulously that Juneteenth is not Ralph Ellison's long-awaited second novel but only the most coherent and retrievable extract from the vast novelistic saga he had conceived, labored prolifically over for forty years, released in scattered fragments but had never, to his satisfaction, reduced to "eloquent form." With this delimiting judgement I wholeheartedly agree, even as I eagerly await the publication of a promised scholarly edition of the complete unpublished manuscripts. In the absence of some unseen disclosure, Ellison's literary reputation will remain circumscribed by the texts he himself always ushered carefully and consciously into the public record. What remains to tantalize us will generate its own unending conversation."
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