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Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4967
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 02:27 pm: | 
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I ran across a notice where this publisher is trying to get authors to do some books on a work for hire basis.
They will pay--but work for hire means they retain all rights. Which means if there are 20 reprints too bad--you got your money.
Which means that if there is a movie--too bad, you got your money.
Which means that if characters from the book spin off and you keep writing--too bad. You got your money.
Would any of you writers ever do work for hire? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9445
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 02:56 pm: |
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Isn't this how best-selling author James Patterson churns out a book every six months by "collaborating" with authors he hires to put his story ideas into book form? If I was a writer who hadn't had any success, and a publisher had enough confidence in my writing skills to want me to flesh out a ready-made plot line, and if my name appeared along with the title and the price of the flat fee was right, I would do this at least once. This does make you a "published" author, which is always a plus. |
Emanuel
Regular Poster
Username: Emanuel
Post Number: 333
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 12:35 am: |
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I agree with Cynique. It might be a good way to earn a little money (nobody wants to be a starving artist) and make some connections in the industry (like a really good literary agent). If the book does well, you can always leverage some PR from it for future book projects, even though you won't make the loot up front. Of course, it all depends on how much money we're talking too. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4972
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 10:32 am: |
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What if, say it had been to write a Harry Potter book. All you get is a lump sum. You don't get no royalties. You don't get nothing when they do the movie. You don't get nothing on the toys, the games, the etc.
What then? |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4973
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 10:33 am: |
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to flesh out a ready-made plot line,
(How fleshed out would it have to be?) |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 497
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 10:34 am: |
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They will pay--but work for hire means they retain all rights.
Not exactly. The creator of the work signs a WFH contract BEFOREHAND, assigning rights they're willing to forfeit to the work. In this day and age, no one's stupid enough to give up ALL rights to their work. So, they may sign over their publishing rights, but not the film rights. Unless, the publisher says "Five million dollars for all rights," and you say "Cool" and you turn over all rights in the WFH contract agreement.
But still, it's THAT particular work. Now let's say, as in your example, a certain character catches on. The publisher now owns the character, but does NOT own the next installment of the story that hasn't even been written - so who's going to write the next installment? Mo' money, mo' money, mo' money! Plus, now you (the creator) are a little smarter and in a better position to negotiate.
Unless... you signed over those rights in the original WFH contract agreement. But, as I said, you'd have to be the dumbest •••• on the face of the earth to shoot yourself in the foot like that...or the price was right.
Another example of WFH would be if you work for a publisher at an hourly, daily, weekly, annual wage/salary and as part of your job you're assigned to a team to develop and write books. That would be a WFH where the creators have no rights to the work because creating the work is their job description, and the reason they were hired in the first place.
Y'know, if you discover the cure for cancer on company time, you better keep it to yourself. Otherwise, your company could claim that you were in their employ, on the clock, when you made the discovery, therefore, they (the company) really discovered the cure - that may very well hold up in court. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4978
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 11:43 am: |
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Unless... you signed over those rights in the original WFH contract agreement. But, as I said, you'd have to be the dumbest •••• on the face of the earth to shoot yourself in the foot like that...or the price was right.
(Well that's who this outfit is trying to get because in their proposal they say that up front. ALL rights. And what they are arguing is in the four figures. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4979
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 11:45 am: |
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so who's going to write the next installment?
(You have to get an agreement for that of course. If you don't have it you don't have to be on that ship when it sails if I understand it correctly.
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Emanuel
Regular Poster
Username: Emanuel
Post Number: 334
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 11:54 am: |
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Chris,
I'm sure no one would be crazy enough to accept four figures to write the next Harry Potter book. More than likely, the author will have no idea on how well the book will do, which is why there is a dilemma regarding the deal. Before taking on a project giving up all rights, the author needs to seek legal counsel and figure out what's in it for him. On the other side of the coin, the book may not sell more than a hundred copies but you would still have your four figures and hopefully some new contacts in the industry for future projects. |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 498
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 11:55 am: |
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(You have to get an agreement for that of course. If you don't have it you don't have to be on that ship when it sails if I understand it correctly.
True, very true, Chris. The publisher/rights owner could assign future installments to ANYONE they desire, also on a WFH basis. But they generally return to the work's orginal creator who knows the nuts and bolts of the story, and who probably already has the next SEVERAL installments already written - but they've been holding out. LOL!
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Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 499
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 12:07 pm: |
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I'm sure no one would be crazy enough to accept four figures to write the next Harry Potter book.
Emanuel, I looove JK Rowling's story. She wrote the first HP book in the mid-90's while a single mother on welfare in England. She banged it out on an old manual typewriter. After the ms was rejected over a dozen times, she finally sold it for the US equivalent of $3000. Today Rowling is the only writer in history to become a BILLIONAIRE as a result of her writing. Talk about "rags to riches". (I'm glad I didn't throw away my manual typewriter. LOL!) |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9448
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 12:09 pm: |
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To me, to a book deal like this would have to be worth at least $10,000. Am I dreaming, Urbanscribe? LOL |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 502
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 12:37 pm: |
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Y'know, when it comes to book deals, I like the tactic that lawyers use when they sue: demand an astronomical amount upfront. They know they won't get it, but they just may settle the case for a bit more than their client expected.
A first time unagented unknown author can expect an advance in the range of $500-$5000. Ask for the 10G's and you just may receive an advance in the $3000-$5000 range, rather than the $500-$2000 range.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9452
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 12:56 pm: |
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Well, inasmuch as no personal expenses would be incurred in such a project, and time is money, if I was approached for such a job I could deal with 5 grand. Now, - back to the real world. LOL |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2169
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 08:57 am: |
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This is a great discussion! This practice sounds pretty widespread. Are authors/publishing houses required to let the reader know when this happens? (I'm guessing, no.) You know, this would explain a coule of my (previously) favorite mystery writers whose work as of late has seemed pretty predictable and uninteresting. I thought maybe I was just outgrowing the series but maybe the books are now being churned out by for-hire folks. |
Yvettep
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 2170
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 09:02 am: |
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if I was approached for such a job I could deal with 5 grand
LOL @ Cynique! You ain't lied! But in all seriousness--I read recently of a phenomenon of people paying others to "be them" on-line because they were too busy but needed to maintain a virtual presence. WIth you knack for witty repartee, maybe you could pick up some cash as a for-hire web ghostwriter!  |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9457
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 03:38 pm: |
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That's something to think about, Yvette. As much time as I spend surfing the net I should try and capitalize on this. This virutal reality thing can be very useful. Just ask kola boof. heh-heh |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9462
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 02:34 pm: |
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Actually, the virtual reality thing in kola boof's bag of tricks wears thin and become desperate and insufferably boring after a while. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4982
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 10:22 am: |
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On the other side of the coin, the book may not sell more than a hundred copies but you would still have your four figures and hopefully some new contacts in the industry for future projects.
(But on the other hand if it does you are out of the box and sitting there while they make money off your idea.
This is what happened to the creators of Superman. When DC Comics decided they were out of the box they were out of it. Other books were put out with their character, they got no money. Other characters were spun off the character (Superboy) they got no money. Movie serials? They got zip. Toys? They got zip. TV show? Nothing.
Why take a chance? |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4983
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 10:24 am: |
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, she finally sold it for the US equivalent of $3000. Today Rowling is the only writer in history to become a BILLIONAIRE as a result of her writing.
(Did she give up her copyrights?) |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 9471
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 12:08 pm: |
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Oh get it over it, chrishayden. You asked a hypothetical question and got hypothetical qualified answers. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4992
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 10:59 am: |
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If the book does well, you can always leverage some PR from it for future book projects, even though you won't make the loot up front. Of course, it all depends on how much money we're talking too.
(I have made up my mind not to do it but did a little further enquiry. The jack is 4000 British pounds for a 90,000 word novel. They provide a slender "Bible" with some character and setting details. I would probably consider it if they had a more detailed Bible or a chapter by chapter summary. Or if it was a porn novel, which probably wouldn't sell well or have ancillary possibilities. Or if it was like a Star Trek novel with everything in place already.
I asked them if
1) Who owned any characters created by the writer (there weren't very many)
2) Who owned setting details--modes of transportation, customs etc
3) Was there any guarenteed work on any more books.
4) Whether ownership of already named characters changed when details were provided (these characters had names and occupations but no physical descriptions, personal histories etc)
5) And who owned any ancillary rights--tv, movies, games, etc.
The assignment is to write a genre book--these have great possibilities for toys, comic books, etc.
They answer was they keep all rights and contracts are for one book.
I'm sitting up, remembering this story one of the Superman creators told. They signed away all rights for the character for $350 with the first story (it had been rejected by almost every publisher in the business over 4 years, they thought they were getting over).
When all the toys, and watches and games and radio shows and comic strips came out, their friends and relatives said, "man, you guys must be getting rich."
Of course they weren't.
Why take a chance? |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 5467
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 12:51 pm: |
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To answer your original question - yes, I would work for hire if the price is right.
But I probably wouldn't write a book. If I were to write a book that I'd relinquish all rights and future earnings to, it would be a half-assed effort.
These publishers probably want somebody to write one of those trashy paperback romance novel type things, the ones that you find at the grocery store that people read once and throw in the garbage.
But my advice to you is this: since you lack imagination and initiative anyway, I think you should go for it. You couldn't do any worse than you did with that crappy vampire book of yours.
LOLOLOLOL!
Thanks for the laughs.
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