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Yukio
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Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 08:45 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What makes a good book review.

Having read hundreds, I tend to require critical engagement, that is more than description, even in the less scholarly book reviews.
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A_womon
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Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 09:41 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Yukio,

I think a good book review will show that the reviewer has read more than the jacket before forming an opinion. The s/he is critical of the writing, content, characters, insofar as was all of the above engaging, clearly defined, a good read (although the latter is purely subjective...come to think of it ALL reviews are purely subjective and merely a matter of personal taste!) :-)

Mostly, I think a good reviewer will stick with reviewing the book and not the author...after all, most reviewers have never even met the author, so any criticism of the author based on what they have written is flawed at best. And sometimes, just plain dumb! HA!
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Cynique
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 12:59 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

IMO, Yukio, good reviewers should, themselves, be good writers; able to analyse with clarity and skill while substantiating their points with good examples and sound insight. Above all, a good reviewer should not be cruel.
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Emanuel
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 09:42 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Reviews should be written with book readers in mind not the egos of authors. A lot of readers base buying decisions on reviews. The reviewer's reputation is on the line when he or she recommends a poorly-written book or berates a well-written one.

I like to read reviews that are a bit concise that reveal a tad more about the book than the cover does without giving away too much. I mainly want to know if I should or should not buy the book.
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Urban_scribe
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 09:55 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I really enjoy reviews that explore the nuances of a book, imagery, symbolism, and theme; elements of a story that the casual reader might overlook.

I'm in total agreement with all above - review the book, not the author.
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Chrishayden
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 12:46 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm in total agreement with all above - review the book, not the author.

(How do you separate the book from the author. The book did not fall from the sky. It did not sprout up from the ground. A human being wrote it. We need to know something about this writer--if space permits. If somebody writes a screed against the abuse of women I want to know if the SOB beat his wife. We need to know that Jules Verne rarely left Paris. That the author of "When Malindy Sings" was an educated black man who also wrote classical poetry as well as dialect.

Above all, a good reviewer should not be cruel.

(When a book deserves it should be ripped to shreds along with the motherless crud that wrote it.

They used to call Edgar Allan Poe the Tomahawk Man for his savage reviews. It keeps a little life in an otherwise dry, lifeless souless literary world peopled with pale nonentities.

I will say this--I will no longer do a review of a book I don't like because I feel like any bum can rip apart a book he doesn't like and its a waste, I'd rather promote something I like.


God I'm going to regret this, but here I go--

I expect from a book review some indicatiion that the writer of the review has actually read the book. I expect some discussion of the elements of the book--if fiction discussion of plot, theme, setting, character style, and comparison with other like works. I expect a little bio of the author. Maybe some mention of the authors other works.

If non fiction I'd like some analysis of whether or not it was properly documented, how it stacks up with other works, and how well it illuminated its subject, as well as work on writing style, the credits of the author, etc.

Finally I'd like to know if the reviewer liked it or recommended it.

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Yukio
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 02:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I expect from a book review some indicatiion that the writer of the review has actually read the book.

LOL!

How do you separate the book from the author. The book did not fall from the sky. It did not sprout up from the ground. A human being wrote it.

Right.
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Yukio
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 02:28 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you find authors to be good reviewers?
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Chrishayden
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 02:34 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you find authors to be good reviewers?

(Sometimes. They are prone to hold back because they are afraid that if they stick it to somebody somebody might get payback on them later--they tend to git into a scratch my back I'll scratch yours, situation.

The main fault that authors have is that sometimes they start thinking the review is about them and not the book they are reviewing--they work too hard on their own deathless prose and try to impress.
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Steve_s
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 02:38 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've read all of Zake's Mda's novels; five so far. He's a South African novelist/playwright who is very unique and something of a contrarian. I like his work and I'll continue to read anything he writes. His latest, The Whale Caller, a novel about an interspecies love triangle, may not be his best, but still I find it interesting. The NY Times reviewer, Madison Smartt Bell, the noted author of a series of novels about the Haitian revolution, didn't quite know what to make of it, and his references were J.M. Coetzee, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, and Chinua Achebe. But I noticed that he missed what I thought was an obvious allusion to Samuell Beckett's Waiting for Godot. When Saluni blinds herself by looking into a solar eclipse and is then led on a leash by the Whale Caller on a tour of the countryside, it seems very reminiscent of the relationship between Lucky and Pozo in Beckett's play. Then I read Maya Jaggi's review in the Guardian, and she pointed out that ". . its tragicomic passion between marginal misfits [is] reminiscent of Athol Fugard's Boesman and Lena." And as it turns out, Fugard's play was adapted into a move starring Danny Glover and Angela Bassett, something I had no knowledge of before I read the review. It sounds right though, because Fugard is a South African playwright.

Bell's review:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/08/books/review/08bell.html?ex=1175400000&en=76c2 147e612b8564&ei=5070

Jaggi's review:

http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/generalfiction/0,6121,1557049,00.html

Who she is:

http://www.africacentre.org.uk/africanvisions2002chairsI.htm
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Steve_s
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 04:02 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Finally, in the case of black literature, I want to read honest, critical reviews and not booster reviews or propoganda. I managed to find reviews by black reviewers of Pride of Carthage, I Got Somebody in Staunton, and Dancing in the Dark, which were critical but fair. I don't need to hear that an author's hand was "kissed by God" or any of that.
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Urban_scribe
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 05:34 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chris, you write about vampires. Are you one? That's how you separate the book from the author.

Novelists write about many, many subjects. They write about past, present, and future. Your friend, for instance, is writing about slavery. Was he a slave? That's how you separate the book from the author. Some of the fiction I've written, I personally haven't experienced and/or I, the author, take a different stance in real life. But my characters have had these experiences and/or do agree with the perspective presented in the novel. That's how you separate the book from the author.
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Yukio
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 05:47 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

urban_scribe:

Right, but I don't think that's what CH is saying, though. For example, I remember discussing Love by Toni Morrison, and many readers felt that her portray of the young boy was at sub par; another example is the Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad, and the attendant responses of Achebe, Phillips, and Wilson.
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Urban_scribe
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 06:24 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yukio,

Ah, I see. The writing itself was not subpar, but it was subpar because of what readers have come to expect from Toni Morrison? Am I following you correctly?
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Yukio
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 09:20 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

not exactly. it was believed that she expressed poorly the angst, and general feelings, of the teenage boy. And then the discussion transitioned into one based on whether a woman can treat a man and vice versa...i actually didn't have to much of a problem with her treatment, especially since, as i recall, the boy was not essential to the narrative...

in the case of the heart of darkness, this involved a discussion among three respected black authors--caryl phillips [the youth] and the two giants of black literature chinua achebe and wilson harris--about whether or not the heart of darkness was racist or not...during the historical moment, Conrad, in fact, was a critique of colonialism...
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A_womon
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 09:52 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yukio check your email

And IMO, the examples you give speak of the writeR's ability to convey certain aspects of character. or character traits. This still speaks more of the authors skill than the author him/herself. For example, no one would say that Toni Morrison is illiterate and needs to give up writing just because she didn't convey traits of a particular character correctly, yet some writers have been told things very similar just because a reviewer didn't like the writers book.
Authors are not what they write, as US has said.
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Yukio
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 11:42 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Traits is not the word. I don't believe that word is really in usage anymore.

It isn't a matter of ability about perspective. So, for example, the issue that Achebe addressed in his criticism of Conrad was based on that author's failure, according to Achebe, to see Africans as humans.
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Emanuel
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Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 08:52 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Check out Shon Bacon's piece on the trouble of being nice when writing reviews here:

http://www.tnc-magazine.com/writelife7.html

I think it's great!
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Cynique
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Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 01:43 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I opined that a reviewer should maybe refrain from being "cruel". And not being "cruel" is not synonymous with being "nice" or is being caustic synonymous with having literary expertise. One can thoroughly pan a book without taking a fiendish delight in ridiculing the author, - without using the critique as a opportunity to show off how clever and mean-spirited one is at crafting put-downs, something that ultimately makes the review more about the ego of the reviewer rather than the merits of the book. To me, excessive scorn bespeaks more of self-indulgent priggishness than professionalism since, after all, people are "reviewers" only by virtue of the fact that this is a title they have given themselves.
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Squirt
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 05:55 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree that some reviewers are cruel. But, there's nothing wrong with a bad review. It's a learning process. I feel that a writer should be able to learn from criticism. I felt bad because one person that read my novels criticized how my endings were. I took it with pride and said to myself that he loved what he read but hated how it ended. Another person told me that my chapters are too short, but they loved the novels. So, it's a learning process.
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A_womon
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 07:52 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Squirt, I checked out your website and I saw that your book was self published by publishamerica. I'm curious about your experience with them. I had a coworker who used them to print thier bbok and honestly it was terrible! No editing and the "contract" sucked. PublishAmerica paid for all of the printing up front, but they basically owned all rights for seven years.

I have read many horror stories about PublishAmerica, has this been your experience?
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Squirt
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 10:34 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, I have had a bad experience with them. I'm learning. The only reason why I had my second book published through them was because of my lack of money to pay a good publisher. My third book (part 3)will not be published through them.
They don't pay you your royalties that's due. I keep track of my book sales. But, they keep making an excuse saying that bookstores have so many months to pay for their orders. My romance novels are a great read and I'm proud of myself for getting them out there. I'm doing a lot of promoting through the internet. So, hopefully I will have my name in lights one day. I did feel offended when they sent me a dollar bill saying that it will help to bring in sales and that it
was an advance. But, I looked on the bright side of it. Their contract does suck and you are locked in for seven years. My books do have errors in them because of their poor editing team. I have complained to them about that.
But, they continue to print it like that. I hope that your coworker's book is selling because I'm learning that POD books don't get recognized because they are not on a bookshelf
anywhere. It has to be ordered by the store or online book-store. Also, PublishAmerica prices their books too high. I wish us both luck with our success. What's the name of your friend's book.
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A_womon
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 12:46 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You know I can't remember the name of the book o offhand and it wasn't really a friend, it was a co worker. You shouldn't have to pay a good publisher to publish your book. In fact a good publisher will pay YOU.
I'm sorry you had to go through them. Some of these people that advertise they are a publishing company are nothing more than ripoff artists and should be made to shut down operations!
Do you know how to submit to a traditional publisher?
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A_womon
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 01:22 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

by the way Squirt---I do freelance editing and I would be happy to take a look at your book for you!
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Carey
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 02:21 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello A_Women

I still hate trying to type that name and I just noticed that I got it wrong again.....capital (A)(_)...what the ....

Anyway, HI! I'm just dropping by. Don't have much to say. Saw your name on the board and thought I'd say hello.

Carey

Carey
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A_womon
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 05:50 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

CAREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!! HI!!!!! Me and Miss SeSe was just saying how much we miss you!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope everything is going well with you! I miss you!
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A_womon
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 05:53 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh Yeah Carey, I won't be hanging out here as much as I have lately---can't meet my deadlines if I'm sitting on this board all the time, now can I? The trouble of it is, once you allow yourself to be drawn in again, it's hard to stop! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! LOVE YOU CAREY!!!Take Care!
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Emanuel
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 12:01 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I write about the pitfalls and benefits of subsidy publishing all the time. Check out my article here:

http://blogginginblack.com/2007/02/01/when-print-on-demand-makes-sense-by-emanue l-carpenter/

And listen to this informative radio series here, which includes info on Publish America, IUniverse, and AuthorHouse:
http://www.wbjbradio.com/series/pod.php

Bottom line. Subsidy publishing is NOT self publishing. If you're going to pay to publish, do it all yourself and get all the profits (unless making money or getting recognition is not important).
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Sese
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 07:34 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A_Woman
I not only missed Carey's post, but the whole thread. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Do you have a website?
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Carey
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Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 01:29 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello you two

Thanks for thinking of me. Am just poking along trying to find some purpose and direction. It's still been hell.

Sese, I didn't know you where caught-up in the Kaatrina mess. Damn, life is full of mountains ain't it. I hope the best for you. You've always given me something to think and even smile about.

Hey A_women, what you been up to. One big question, where is Thump?
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A_womon
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Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 02:19 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Carey!

Thump is back! For the summer anyway! He's started the thread "IM BACK" on this board!

Wow I guess some big mouth people on this board don't know as much as they think they do! They said you and Thump were gone for good and I might as well get over it! HA! SURPRISE!!! HAHAHAHAHAH! Now if only Lambd and a few others would show up we could have that "family reunion"...
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Cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 04:36 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As a regular poster on this board, I don't recall that anybody here ever said that Thumper or Carey wouldn't be back. It was reported that Thumper was working toward his degree and that Carey was "chilling out".
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A_womon
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Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 08:19 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Who asked you big mouth number one? I was speaking to Carey and SOMEBODY did! In response to one of my posts about the good old days when Thump ruled the board. As a matter of fact YOU put your half cent in that thread to and said the good old days weren't that good among other things. ANYWAY CAREY, read the Is Thumper Ever Coming Back Thread on the other board if you want to know who said what...
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A_womon
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Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 08:41 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carey,

The thread aint on the other board anymore. Must be archived or something. It doesn't matter though, Thump is BACK for the summer and that's ALL that really matters! I hope you drop by a little more often too!
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Cynique
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Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 12:50 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola claimed she was responsible for Thumper leaving and I said that Thumper was on hiatus working on a degree in his field which was what HE himself had posted on the board. Now take your perch and sit there like a little bird, keeping an eye out for the return of the good ol days.
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Carey
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Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 01:44 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Damn, I see some things never changes * take your perch and sit there like a little bird* and * Big mouth number one* ....I see you two still love one another *smile*.
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A_womon
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Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 03:47 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

and you just keep talking out your azz thinking you all wise and shyt but sounding like the stinkin old fart you are!
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A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon

Post Number: 1558
Registered: 05-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 03:49 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

UMMMMMMMM CAREY! That last post was meant for sTankiuqe of course! NEVER you!



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A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon

Post Number: 1559
Registered: 05-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 03:57 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

AND I don't need to wait for nothin! with THUMP and CAREY posting I have no need to 'wait for the good old days' they are already here! HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA! Tata for now OLD GIRL! HAHAHHAHA!

LAMBD!! COME ON BACK JOIN THE REUNION!!!!
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Carey
Veteran Poster
Username: Carey

Post Number: 515
Registered: 05-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 04:10 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, am gone, hope to drop by again tomorrow.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique

Post Number: 8673
Registered: 01-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 07:03 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hold your breath everybody while the little old droopy-feathered wren sits on her perch waiting for "the good old days" to kick in. Tweet-tweet. Jeeze, a-woman would be hard pressed to even fake having any wisdom. It's pathetic how somebody her age lives in the past, thinking the presence of screen names will fill a void she so desperately needs to have filled. tsk-tsk. Excuse me while I go wait for the cicadas to come out for the first time in 17 years. They're overdue. Oh well, so much for the good old days when the shells of millions of dead locusts covered the ground around Chicagoland.
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Sese
Newbie Poster
Username: Sese

Post Number: 41
Registered: 05-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 11:34 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A_womon Did you receive my two emails?
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A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon

Post Number: 1561
Registered: 05-2004

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Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 10:21 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry Ms Sese I didn't. Please resend to briawriter-thumperscorner@yahoo.com.

Troy, I hope you don't mind me using thumperscorner in my temporary email address. I'm getting a lot of email and I want to track where it's coming from. If it is a problem let me know and I will change it to something else.
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Troy
Veteran Poster
Username: Troy

Post Number: 653
Registered: 01-2004

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Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 02:20 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A_woman, sure, use thumperscorner.

Cynique; "...people are "reviewers" only by virtue of the fact that this is a title they have given themselves. this is true, but this is also true for authors as well. Unless some form of professional certification or other requirement to use the title title of "Author" or "Reviewer" is imposed then this will remain as it is. I do not necessarily think this is a bad thing (but I see good arguments on both sides).

I read a bunch of reviews from various sources. The most interesting reviewers have a unique voice, and clear opinion and ability to expose the subities of the book is knowledgeable enough to relate relavent, related information.


Just some related random thoughts on book reviews


Authors are typically not good reviewers as many admit they find if difficult to write an unfavorable review of another author's work for fear of repercussions.


Customer Reviews on Amazon are useless -- too many are written by the author, a friend or enemy of the author -- either way the are very biased. Amazon's Editorial Reviews are better but typically too short.


I like the New York Times Book Reviews


Publishing good book reviews is hard and expensive. It is not surprising some newspapers are getting out of this business of maintaining staff to do this.


At the end of the day, readers of reviews want to know if they should consider buying a book.


Often a favorably written book review will signal to the reader that they should NOT by the book.


Interesting quote from a agent friend of mine "Not all books deserve to be reviewed"


I'll publish multiple reviews of the same book:
http://www.aalbc.com/reviews/book_reviews.htm
Black Like You
Diary of a Lost Girl
Hokum
Is Bill Cosby Right?
The Emperor of Ocean Park


Generally the reviewer's style makes reading more than one review of the same book interesting and allows you to learn the reviews tastes.



Here is an interesting conversation I had with and author Monica Jackson regarding charging for Book Reviews http://monicajackson.com/blog/?p=2069



I was paid Thumper to review a book which he panned. The author was SO adamant in expressing her outrage and disbelief at having her book panned by Thumper (in his special way). I decided to pay another reviewer with a different voice to write a review of the same book (this was before I started charging authors for book reviews). The second reviewer panned the book too!

Cost to me $300 bucks. Cost to author <$25. I have never made that mistake again. One reason I charge authors for reviews


Interestingly enough most authors take unfavirable reviews quite well, learn from the experience and realize it is one person's opinion.


Authors still use unfavorable reviews for promotion. One can usually find one favorable string of words in a negative review to use as a quite. I've even seen entire unfavorable reviews used for promotion.




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A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon

Post Number: 1566
Registered: 05-2004

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Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 10:26 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Troy!

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