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Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3996
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 12:06 pm: | 
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An acquaintance had a story rejected by an editor (I presume white) because the story was set in the Pre Civil War South on the grounds that the dialog was too modern sounding.
The writer said that he didn't have the black slaves mouthing dialect and he feels that this is why the editor rejected it.
I thought that not having the blacks use dialect was realistic because not all blacks spoke dialect then (at least not all the time)
I brought up the examples of Frederick Douglass, Phyllis Wheatley who were learned even as slaves.
I also conjectured that some slaves might automatically imitate the more cultured diction and grammar of the masters, rather than that of lower class whites, and that some whites--maybe all--would have wanted their house servants to speak in more proper tones and might have instructed them so.
What do you think? |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 395
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 12:49 pm: |
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Maybe it wasn't that the AE (Acquisitions Editor) was looking for a heap of "yessums" and the like, but rather correct word usage that marked the era.
Y'know, language is constantly revolving. The American English we speak today isn't even the same American English venacular spoken at the turn of the 20th century.
I may be way off here because I haven't seen the ms, and don't know whether the AE issued a form rejection letter or detailed rejection letter, but perhaps your friend would be well-served by researching the customary venacular used during that time period. He could then incorporate that language into his dialogue and even into his narrative to add authentic voice to the work. He could also read newspapers and books and letters and other documents written during that period to grasp a better understanding of the era's language usage. The Library of Congress would be a great place to begin his research. Everything written during the antebellum South is public domain. Only thing left to do after that is submit it to a different editor/different press, and keep submitting 'til he gets a yes! |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 396
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 12:51 pm: |
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sorry, "revolving" should be "evolving" |
Afrika
Newbie Poster
Username: Afrika
Post Number: 39
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 01:56 pm: |
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Greetings Chris,
I would have to agree with Urban Scribe.
Peace,
Afrika Midnight Asha Abney |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2163
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 11:10 pm: |
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I dont nothin about publishing, but what US said makes sense...on the historical note, however, the language skills also was determined by the region. The upper south--MD and VA--slaves had greater facility with english than the deep south [Frederick Douglass was from Maryland; PW was not quite antebellum(1830s and after) and she was in the North, by the way].
Also, the South as a region too was just less literate than the North; finally, if the story is set in a southern city, it is more likely that the slaves were literate; consider denmark vesey and gabriel prosser....urban and skilled slaves. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4001
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 10:31 am: |
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Boy you guys are good.
You haven't even read the MS and you have taken that editor off the hook already! Do you find lost objects for people and read fortunes, too?
Are you saying that editors are not racist? |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1433
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 12:18 pm: |
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Chris,
I think editors are like all other groups on this planet---some may be racists, but most aren't... |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4006
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 01:05 pm: |
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You are too kind
Stalin was an editor
Goebbels was an editor
John W. Campbell was an Editor
Pat Buchanan was an editor
Martin W. Duggan was an editor
What more do you need?
What writer was that who wrote that book on fiction in which he said one must resist the temptation to think well of editors? |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2170
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 01:31 pm: |
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LOL! There are so many variables that need to be considered when trying to recreate the language and the world of the antebellum South.
Also, another source that could be useful, though it too has problems, is George Rawick's The American Slave: A Composite Autobiography, and Ira Berlin's Remembering Slavery. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8111
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 01:51 pm: |
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Why does chrishayden asks a question, then get indignant because he didn't get the answer he wanted to hear? If folks haven't read the manuscript, then how in the heck can they come up with anything but an opinion? Just to make the ol guy happy, I say it. Yes! of course the editor is a racist. He's white, isn't he? |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1435
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 03:33 pm: |
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Chris,
There are hundreds if not thousands of editors around the globe and you name...five??? Come on now... |
Libralind2
Veteran Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 746
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 04:13 pm: |
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I was thinking the same thing..why did Chris ask the question then get angry about the responses
LiLi |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4007
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 04:31 pm: |
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If folks haven't read the manuscript, then how in the heck can they come up with anything but an opinion?
(That isn't an opinion. That's clairvoyance. That's akin to me telling you in Mayberry whether or not you've pooped in your pants--then again, that's a bad example, since I'm sure to be right half the time)
There are hundreds if not thousands of editors around the globe and you name...five??? Come on now...
(I named the five least culpable. Next question)
I was thinking the same thing..why did Chris ask the question then get angry about the responses
(Because I'm a free black man. You got a problem with that?)
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8113
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 04:59 pm: |
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What you really are, chrishayden, is an enslaved asshole shackled by your insufferable ego. How dare those folks not kow-tow to your demands! |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 397
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 06:28 pm: |
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Chris, based on the limited information you provided, I don't feel you can play the race card. You're not even certain if the editor is White.
The editor could be White and racist, but just as easily, the editor could be Black and your friend's manuscript sux. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 4307
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 07:12 pm: |
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Chris, I can't believe I missed this interesting thread for a whole entire day.
Here's my 2¢
Being that you are such a mystical magical negro, I think that you should convince your friend to abandon this entire antebellum project and write about something else.
Let me think.
Hmmmmm
Oh yes, I have the perfect subject.
He could write about . . .
Vampires!
You can thank me later.
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A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1436
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 09:25 pm: |
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US: Chris, based on the limited information you provided, I don't feel you can play the race card. You're not even certain if the editor is White...
A_Womon: US I was thinking that very thing so I'm glad you said it! HA!
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Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2184
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 09:43 pm: |
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The editor doesn't have to be white for him/her to be racist!
Also, ChrisHayden, have you told us the entire story? Setting? Region, occupation of the slaves, their master's class background, etc...
consider charles johnson's middle passage... |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1438
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 09:53 pm: |
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Yukio,
It's true that a racist doesn't have to be white, but chris is the one who said that he thinks that the editor was white...so isn't it fair to infer that he is referring to a white racist? |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1439
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 09:56 pm: |
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and what happened to the IM last week? hmmmmmmmmm?? |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2185
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 11:37 pm: |
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a_womon: you talkin to me ? |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1441
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 12:59 am: |
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Yes Yukio |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2186
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 01:05 am: |
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my bad! |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1442
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 01:11 am: |
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Yukio, Ok so whut is yall gone do bout dat, suh? eye's gittin moighty sleepful hangin roun
dishyeah boad all de nigh' longe, suh, an Iount nose effen eyes gone be aba ta stay woke wiffen my eyebawls a boinin in such as dat an aclosin upon me all de nigh' longe.. |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1443
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 01:12 am: |
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eyes shole is gittin so dat ahm nyeahbout sleep |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4011
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 12:49 pm: |
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Vampires!
You can thank me later.
(My next book is an 800 page opus that takes place inside your booty! |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4013
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 01:06 pm: |
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(My next book is an 800 page opus that takes place inside your booty!
Man! That one was so funny I about fell out laughing at it myself! I can hardly wait to see how you come back on it!
For now, some details--
It's the story of the struggles of a family of Katrina refugees that takes up residence in your A$$ without your knowledge. You aren't a total idiot--at some point you discover them and the rest of the book is you coming to terms with how we are all brothers and sisters. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8126
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 01:19 pm: |
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I can hardly wait for the oppportunity to review and rip into shreds what promises to be a waste of paper masquerading as a book by an author with a dubious reputation. (BTW, why don't you ever close your parenthesis??) |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1837
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 01:20 pm: |
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So basically your next work will be full of sh**?  |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 4014
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 02:03 pm: |
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(BTW, why don't you ever close your parenthesis??)
Same reason I don't zip up my pants--I needs to be READY
So basically your next work will be full of sh**?
(Good God, you brought out a good point. What happens when she needs to--you know--make a poo poo?
Back to the drawing board!)
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A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1447
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 03:15 pm: |
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YVETTEP:So basically your next work will be full of sh**?
OMG!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!! |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 4315
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 03:51 pm: |
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Hey, y'all stop disparaging my ass  |
Libralind2
Veteran Poster
Username: Libralind2
Post Number: 751
Registered: 09-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 05:11 pm: |
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Chris...your your your ::thinking of a good word::
ummmmmmm I cant find a good one...::sigh::
LiLi |
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