| Author | Message | ||
     Tonya "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 5145 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: |
Don't this motherfucker look EXACTLY like Satan??  Trash rap makes Imus possible The same standard of racial accountability must apply whether the offender is an Imus or a 50 Cent. by Earl Ofari Hutchinson The Philadelphia Inquirer (MCT) 13 April 2007 “Can U Control Yo Hoe”—so asks the high priest of gangster rap, Snoop Dogg, on his CD “R&G: (Rhythm and Gangsta): The Masterpiece.” In “Housewife” on his CD 2001, Dr. Dre says, “Naw, `hoe’ is short for honey.” Rapper Beanie Sigel says, “Watch Your Bitches” on his 2001 album “The Reason.” And 50 Cent commands: “••••• choose with me” on his 2003 track “P.I.M.P.” Just a light sampling of how gangster rappers, some black filmmakers, and comedians routinely reduce young black women to “stuff,” “bitches” and “hoes.” Their contempt reinforces the slut image of black women and sends the message that violence, mistreatment and verbal abuse of black women are socially acceptable. Despite lawsuits, protests and boycotts by women’s groups, gangster-themed films and rap music continue to soar in popularity. Hollywood and music companies rake in small fortunes off them, and so do a few rappers. Now enter shock-jock Don Imus, the latest white guy to be transformed into a racially and gender-incorrect punching bag for his Michael Richardsesque epithets against the Rutgers University women’s basketball team. He, of course, has been verbally mugged, battered, abused and (momentarily) furloughed from his radio and TV show. Imus has genuflected—no, groveled—to the Rev. Al Sharpton, civil-rights leaders, and the Rutgers team, begging forgiveness. Imus certainly deserves the kick in the shins he’s getting. Even he admits that he rocketed way past the line of what—even by the raunchy and low-road standards of shock-jockism—is considered acceptable. But again, Imus is the softest of soft targets. The same can’t be said for the black rap shock-jocks. They made Imus possible. They gave him the rapper’s bad-housekeeping seal of approval to bash and trash black women. In many ways, their artistic degradation has had even more damaging consequences for young black women. Homicide now ranks as one of the leading causes of deaths of young black females. A black woman is far more likely to be raped than a white woman and slightly more likely to be the victim of domestic violence than a white woman. Who are the assailants? Not white racist cops or Klan nightriders, but other black males. The media play their own roles, often magnifying and sensationalizing crimes by black men against white women, but ignoring or downplaying crimes against black women. The verbal demeaning of black women has made them the scapegoats for many of the crisis social problems in American society. What’s even more galling is that some blacks cite a litany of excuses, such as poverty, broken homes and abuse, to excuse the sexual abuse and violence (both physical and rhetorical) by top black male artists. These explanations for the misdeeds of rappers and singers are phony and self-serving. The ones who have landed hard on a court docket are anything but hard-core, dysfunctional, poverty types. P. Diddy, who predated R. Kelly as the poster boy for extramusical malevolence, is college-educated and hails from a middle-class home. He typifies the fraud that these artists are up-from-the-ghetto, self-made men. The daunting puzzle, then, remains why so many blacks storm the barricades in fury against a Richards or an Imus, but are stone silent, or utter only the feeblest of protests, when blacks bash and trash. Or even worse, tacitly condone their verbal abuse. There are two reasons for that. Blacks have been the ancient target of racial stereotypes, negative typecasting, and mockery. This has made them hypersensitive to any real or perceived racial slight from whites. That’s totally understandable, and civil-rights leaders are right to criticize celebrities, politicians and public figures for their racial gaffes, slips or broadsides. The second reason is that blacks fear that if they publicly criticize other blacks for their racial attitudes, such disagreements will be gleefully twisted, mangled and distorted into a fresh round of black-bashing by whites. But that’s a lame reason for not speaking out, and loudly, against blacks who, either out of ignorance or for profit, or both, routinely commercialize racial and gender trash talk. Such failure fuels the suspicion that blacks, and especially black leaders, are more than willing to play the race card, and call white people bigots, when it serves their interests, but will circle the wagons and defend any black who comes under fire for bigotry—or anything else, for that matter. The same standard of racial accountability must apply whether the racial and gender offender is an Imus or a 50 Cent. When it doesn’t, that’s a double standard, and that always translates into hypocrisy. Imus got his trash-talk pass yanked. Now let’s yank it from blacks who do the same or worse. ABOUT THE WRITER Earl Ofari Hutchinson (hutchinsonreport AT aol.com) is a political analyst and author of the forthcoming “The Latino Challenge to Black America: Towards a Conversation between African-Americans and Hispanics.” He wrote this for The Philadelphia Inquirer. http://www.popmatters.com/pm/news/article/33113/trash-rap-makes-imus-possible/ | ||
| Mzuri "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mzuri Post Number: 4481 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
Post one more Imus thread and I'm coming up to Philly to snatch your nappy head  | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 8269 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
This Imus incident has really taken on a life of its own. In some quarters Imus is starting to emerge as a scapegoat and with the focus shifting to the rappers who inspired him, black folks are going to have to do some serious soul-searching. Ironically, the politically-correct position would seem to be that rappers are not responsible for white racism. And if blacks proceed with this line of attack, who will be the winner??? | ||
| Tonya "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 5147 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: N/A |
It's a 50 Cent, Beanie Sigel thread... I ain't scurrred of the Black community! | ||
| Yukio AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 2261 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
This IS all very interesting...only subject people have to be perfect. Hutchinson's point, well taken, is ridiculous. The drive of his article is to not be hypocrtical and not to legitimize doublestandards. Well, how to we really determine and measure these? In other words, as part of our challenge to racism and sexsim, we then have to be super human and raise above what is humanly possible. Context is everything, but certainly black men can be as verbally and physically misogynist as white men, but white men control the world. And ultimately in this context, the white man is controlling the conversation. If we are really going to equate Imus to 50 cent [not talkin bout money here but their differing power and its reach], we must place them in the context of this racist country and world for that matter. And when we do that, we can see that in order to legitimize our pleas for justice, we ultimately must tighten up our ship, because once we call someone outside our community a racist, they will say but what about your about how you speak of your own, and then since we dont have backbone we generally fall away, or in this case, we try to make an entire industry respectable, the same, and bourgeois [where sexism and racism is expressed by omission or calling someone the best black or something or another].....just some thoughts! | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 8273 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I seems that in order for blacks to prevail, they have to adopt an attitude that whites are always wrong and blacks are always right and where this seems to lead to is a dead end. | ||
| Tonya "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 5150 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: N/A |
Yeah, well, I'mma be hanging out with the Black moderates and conservatives, even the far right Black extremists, for a little while. Sorry, Yok! | ||
| Yukio AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 2262 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
No Cynique, they have extract the actions of individuals out of the larger context. You should be with whomever you like, Tonya. Thats none of my business. | ||
| Mony Regular Poster Username: Mony Post Number: 56 Registered: 02-2006 Rating: N/A |
Since when did Snoopy dog, 50 cent and their ilk become arbiters of whats what in society. On the other hand, society is in trouble if they hand these guys any credence given their misogynistic views. | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1996 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: |
To keep it short, I actually quite agree with the article. I don't want to be thought of as a ho by Imus OR Snoop Dogg OR 50 Cent. I just heard some lady on the news say appropriately: We have to lead by example and show how we want our women treated. If we don't want other people calling our women hos, we can't call them hos. | ||
| Enchanted Veteran Poster Username: Enchanted Post Number: 774 Registered: 11-2005 Rating: N/A |
rappers wield more power globully than white men when it comes to what young people think and use that power to abuse black women. | ||
| Tonya "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 5151 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: N/A |
"You should be with whomever you like, Tonya. Thats none of my business." Damn that was COLD! ...LOL I was only joking, you know...forgot the L-O-L Of course I'd never swing with the conservatives/extremists! ...not that you care.  | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 2000 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
Tonya and Yukio...don't you both live in New England? | ||
| Mzuri "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mzuri Post Number: 4484 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
Yeah Tonya and Yukio. Where is the love? I thought you two were gonna get together and have some nappy headed children  | ||
| Yukio AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 2264 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
no, i live in on the left coast. if there was total agreement, life would be boring! | ||
| Yukio AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 2265 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
well, i think there is a huge difference between the two men. one is black and the other is white. one called black women hos because they're black women and the other calls women hos when they're hos [that what he said...LOL!] There is a quandary, here. Are we so concerned with what white people think that we can not call a ho a ho? While we embrace our groupness, do we have to equate the actions of one person with the values and cultural of the entire group? Is Snoop's and others' music so penetrating that black women think they are hos? | ||
| Renata AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 2001 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
Yukio. That isn't a difference at all. Why would I want a black man to call me a ho if I don't want anyone else calling me one? And who do you think you're KIDDING? I'm sure that I'm not the ONLY woman here who has been called a ho or a bytch for something as simple as not giving my phone number to someone I've met on the train (or in a club, on the bus, on the street, in the mall, etc.). I usually walk off from them and say nothing because they're in a GROUP with other men and I don't want any trouble, not because I agree with them. And I PROMISE you that black women (not just WHORES) are called ho MORE by black men who know nothing about us than by white men and to our faces. Why is this OK with us? | ||
| Renata AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 2002 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: |
Seriously.... Women, say something if you have ever been approached by a STRANGER and you told him you're not interested or you're with someone and he says out LOUDLY to your face "you're just a stank ho or stank bytch anyways"....and without even knowing your name. Or even if you've just witnessed it on a train or bus. Yukio, we don't even have to buy rap cd's to hear it. Just because you guys ONLY notice it in music doesn't mean the rest of us don't have to hear it. | ||
| Renata AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 2004 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
Or even better.....if you're a woman and you don't mind being called a ho, please forward your information to these rappers so they can mention you in their songs by name. | ||
| Yukio AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 2268 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
You are right that black men call black women bitches for no reason but their own shortcomings. But this aint because of rappers; it is reflection of broader society, as you are pointing out. This doesn't mean that it is ok, because it isn't. But if there is a difference between callin a ho a ho and a black woman a ho because she's a black woman. And to equate them, especially in this case, places the burden on black men and lightens it for the white man... if black men are misogynist then it because they learned it from white men. | ||
| Renata AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 2005 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
Again, WHAT THE FUK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? It doesn't lighten it for ANYONE. We don't want to hear it from ANYONE. Just remember that. Stop trying to rationalize and wonder what percentage blame goes to you and what percentage goes to the white men. WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT AT ALL. I don't know how to put it any simpler than that. And here's something REAL to think about...if Imus' language hadn't been so CLOSE to the same language black men use, you all would have REALLY looked good literally stringing him up by his balls. And if there's a difference between calling a ho a ho and a black woman a ho, there must be a very thin line between the two because MOST women who are called hos AREN'T. MOST OF THEM. The MAJORITY. | ||
| Enchanted Veteran Poster Username: Enchanted Post Number: 775 Registered: 11-2005 Rating: |
black men DO call us "ho" and "golddiggers" just becuase we are black yukio where you been? Any blindman can see the dif how they talk about black women more harsher than white because we are black. if we were white we could no wrong. | ||
| Enchanted Veteran Poster Username: Enchanted Post Number: 776 Registered: 11-2005 Rating: |
QUOTE Yuki: if black men are misogynist then it because they learned it from white men. So I guess you skipped African history before the white man right? you making less and less sense. | ||
| Yukio AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 2270 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Renata: I got your point along time ago, and dont agree with it. There's not need to you to say it again or differently. enchanted: black men DO call us "ho" and "golddiggers" just becuase we are black yukio where you been? I already agreed with that...reread above! Enchanted:So I guess you skipped African history before the white man right? you making less and less sense. Misogyny in one place isn't misogyny in another...the kind that Africans practice and Africans Americans practice is quite different; the latter's is fundamentally euro-american, that is, derivative of those in control of this country and our history. I'm talkin about power. To call abuse a woman is wrong, be it verbally or physically. So, AGAIN, I am in agreement with you concerning the abuses of black men... BUT, at both the interpersonal level and structural level, white men are more powerful, and their beliefs, rhetoric, etc...has much greater sway than a black man's. But thats my opinion... | ||
| Renata AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 2008 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
WHATEVER, Yukio. In your typical African American neighborhood, white men aren't around enough to care about the power there. When teenage girls are hurt by that word at school and in their own neighborhoods, who do you think they're being hurt by? There aren't any white men around calling them that. Just wait until your daughter tells you someday that someone called her that, and come back and tell us if it really wasn't such a big deal because a black guy said it. And I PROMISE you and SWEAR to you she's going to hear MUCH MORE OFTEN from black guys in her own neighborhood than she's going to hear it from any white man. And if you say black men learned it from white men, that implies that your brains are still in working order.....please be at least smart enough to learn from YOUR OWN WOMEN to call them something not so derogatory. You seem to "learn from the white men" to call us hos.......learn from us that we don't want to be called that. LEARN SOMETHING NEW. | ||
| Yukio AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 2274 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
I already agreed--several times, in fact--that black men are abusive. But I said, the abuse coming from black men and white men is different. When teenage girls are hurt by that word at school and in their own neighborhoods, who do you think they're being hurt by? Black men and boys!... And who consoles them? Black people, men and women, mother and father, brother and sister, aunt and uncle. | ||
| Renata AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 2010 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
It's the SAME. TAKE IT FROM A WOMAN. The problem with men is that we will tell you exactly how we feel, and you tell us what we feel is wrong and then try to tell us how we SHOULD feel. You just want to THINK it's different so you can CONTINUE to use the term. Don't even front. It's either WRONG for any man to call us that....OR it's "not quite so wrong" for black men to call us that. It can't be both. How can you tell me that it's different when men abuse me, when I TELL YOU that it's the same to me? That's like telling a chicken that being fried hurts more than being boiled....how the hell would I know? Girls usually keep a lot of this kind of stuff to themselves and aren't consoled by anyone. We may tell some friends, but what would another 15 year old know? More girls (in the south anyways) grow up without father and grandfather than with, so they're not even an option. We're seriously so used to hearing it that after a few years, we're not even shocked by it. And if I'm saying something that any woman here doesn't understand or disagrees with, chime in anytime, because I really want to understand it from another point of view. | ||
| Yukio AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 2275 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
renata: Again, i agree with you...how many times do I need to say this? As far as the interpersonal, as your examples demonstrate, it is the same. I've agreed with a gazillion times... Regarding power relations, that is, at the structural level what a black man does and a white man does it is not the same. | ||
| Yukio AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 2276 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
LOL! We are repeating ourselve...i think we are done! | ||
| Renata AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 2011 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
Another thing... if you think it's the same. Do you know how it truly hurts deep inside to be called names by black men. NOT EVEN BECAUSE THEY CALL ME A NAME PER SE.....but because it's so COMMON for them to do so. Do you know how much it hurts to hear MORE THAN ONCE, MORE THAN TWICE what a ho or bytch you are by men you would THINK would have at least a little respect for you? That's why it hurts...not because the word means anything different, but because we truly want your love more than anyone else's.....and we hear derogatory terms from you guys MORE than from anyone else. | ||
| Renata AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 2012 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
DAMN STRAIGHT YOU AGREE.... That's something else you can learn about women (me anyways).......if you don't agree with me, I'll beat you in the head until you do. LOL | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 2058 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"Do you know how it truly hurts deep inside to be called names by black men. NOT EVEN BECAUSE THEY CALL ME A NAME PER SE.....but because it's so COMMON for them to do so. Do you know how much it hurts to hear MORE THAN ONCE, MORE THAN TWICE what a ho or bytch you are by men you would THINK would have at least a little respect for you?" Don't take it personal my dear. They're just playin'....... | ||
| Chrishayden AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 4118 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: |
BS: How long have white people been calling us N**ggers? How long has rap been out? I rest my case. Self loathing Negroes will always back any crime against them. | ||
| Renata AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 2013 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: |
WHATEVER, Chris. Many southern Black people....especially women and girls....live in ALL BLACK communities and don't interact with white people unless they leave their neighborhood. I'm 32 years old and I've been called nig-ger and ho and bytch PLENTY, starting as a YOUNG girl of 14 or 15 or so. MORE TIMES THAN I CAN COUNT. USUALLY BY STRANGERS WHO DIDN'T KNOW MY NAME. And I SWEAR to you no white man EVER called me that. They may have felt it or wanted to or whatever, but they didn't disrespect me by calling me that. And again, get it into your HEADS.....stop trying to rationalize it to make it OK JUST FOR YOU. We don't want to hear it from ANYONE....All your BS dancing around is just "well, if they say it once, OF COURSE IT'S OK IF WE CALL YOU THAT." We don't care who calls us that....NONE OF YOU have the right to disrespect us. And dipstick, what kind of intelligence must YOU have to want to follow some white man in insulting us? SO ANY WHITE MAN OR ANY BLACK MAN WHO CALLS US THAT CAN FUK OFF. You and Imus can both jump off a bridge holding hands. | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 2064 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: |
"How long have white people been calling us N**ggers? How long has rap been out? I rest my case." Case? What case? Where you trying to make a point??? | ||
| Renata AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 2014 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
And to put this into perspective for your ass.... at least we can hurt Imus in his pocket for saying it and make him lose some jobs and he won't say it in the future again. Snoop Dogg calls us that and GETS PAID FOR IT and will CONTINUE TO CALL US THAT on a regular basis into the future. I bet Imus LEARNED how to shut the fuk up. You guys like learning shit from white men. Learn how to shut the fuk up from him. | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 2065 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
”I'm 32 years old and I've been called nig-ger and ho and bytch PLENTY, starting as a YOUNG girl of 14 or 15 or so. MORE TIMES THAN I CAN COUNT. USUALLY BY STRANGERS WHO DIDN'T KNOW MY NAME. And I SWEAR to you no white man EVER called me that. They may have felt it or wanted to or whatever, but they didn't disrespect me by calling me that.” Good point. Unfortunately, many Negros don’t understand this. An entrenched rigorously enforced double standard has them believing they can use the “n” word with total impunity and refer to black women (and all women for that matter) with derisive language and daily degrade them in a hip-hop culture of misogyny while hysterically screaming at others who may traverse similar terrain. The hypocrisy and double standards of Negroes is like festering open wound. ”And again, get it into your HEADS.....stop trying to rationalize it to make it OK JUST FOR YOU. We don't want to hear it from ANYONE....All your BS dancing around is just "well, if they say it once, OF COURSE IT'S OK IF WE CALL YOU THAT." We don't care who calls us that....NONE OF YOU have the right to disrespect us.” I agree. Your point is well made. Unfortunately, Negros believe it is fine to use racist language and sexist epitaphs with complete immunity while foaming at the mouth with indignation and shouting “foul” at the top of their lungs when others use like language. It’s OK for me but not for thee! End of subject….. | ||
| Mzuri "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mzuri Post Number: 4491 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
You tell 'em Renata. All y'all nappy headed negroes need to STFU and stop calling us bitches and hos | ||
| Cynique "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Cynique Post Number: 8283 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
It's becoming obvious that when chrishayden can't come up with a rebuttal to being told off, he calls on the old "self-hatin negro" label to give himself a way out. It's beyond me how black women who resent being the object of the rap terminology that degrades them, and the men who sympathize with these females can be referred to as "self hatin negroes". Ridiculous. | ||
| Yukio AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 2282 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
LOL! I thought it was over. And, I'm still trying to be respectful, Renata. Let me talk off my "church clothes," for a second and remind you of a few things: 1. Your comments have pertained to actions at the interpersonal level, which I have agreed with.I am glad that you have noticed this. 2. Mine pertain to the structural and interpersonal level. Consequently, we disagree because we are talkin about different levels, all important but different. 3. You have harped on being disrespected by black men. 4. I have said that not all of are disrespect, and as I stated in #1, I agreed with you that it is wrong and unacceptable. 5. Yet, ironically, you have--here because of your own experiences with many men--put all brothers in the same boat, put all women in the same boat. Consequently, you have "called me out my name," like Snoop has and many brothers have done to you. This is an illustration of your shared hate--some brothers for women and you--it seems [I'm not a therapist]--for brothers. 6. I have tried to be one of those brothers--or men in general--who respects women, especially sistas. Finally, and here is my point so hopefully you will get it, your actions--as illustrated by our conversation your tone and disrespect and inattention and insecurity--are the SAME as the misogyny of black men. Their behavior, like yours, is based on--lack of respect, inattention, and insecurity. Right? | ||
| Tonya "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 5160 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: |
I'm noticing a parallel here. When Imus was in the process of losing his job, I'm sure you all noticed that it was mostly white men rushing in to save it & Imus. It was white man after white man on the air aggressively fighting to free Imus. And none of them could step back enough to rationally consider the PAIN Imus' comments caused the young ladies at Rutgers. I mean they understood it to a point, but they couldn't understand it enough to think Imus should lose his job. And the reason for this inability to understand was simple: these men flooded in to rescue Imus because they could see them in him. Which made the threat of Imus losing his job hit a nerve that the pain of the Rutgers players couldn’t quite touch. It was Imus and his livelihood that these men could identify with completely, to the point where their ability to relate more w/the ladies' pain was blocked. Fst fwd: notice what's happening now that the livelihood of Blk men could be on the line. Notice the stance that Black men are taking. They cannot identify with us, nor our pain, nor how wrong it is for us to be called B*tches and ho's and gold-diggers and etcetera by Black men and their music. | ||
| Mzuri "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mzuri Post Number: 4514 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
Tonya - I'm sure that your points are valid, but there's an old establishment known as the "old boys' club" and that's what they do - they protect and defend each other regardless of the situation or offense. Well, I think that's what they do cuz I ain't in it. | ||
| Yukio AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 2288 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Tonya: I don't know about your point. While some may call Sharpton "fried head," because of his hair style, ol' boy isn't a woman. My point, you claim equates places people in ideological camps based on so-called "race" and gender. Sharpton and others have criticized Hip Hop long before this Imus debacle. Indeed, I'm sure that many black women do not equate Snoop's usage with Imus's, and differentiate adamantly the bruthas that call them ho in the streets, the club, and the lodge from both Imus and Snoop. The "us," you use should be I or better "some of us"; the black men you use should say "some black men." Until there aren't women--of all color shades-- complaining to their girls because their boyfriend/husband doesn't beat them, you should be caution when you say "us." | ||
| Tonya "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 5163 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: N/A |
Yukio, my "claim" is my observation of the men in the media during this event, which I explained in my post, and the men on this (and the Snoop) thread, which I thought would be clear since I posted it here and I started out by saying "I'm noticing a parallel here". | ||
| Tonya "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 5165 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: N/A |
"I'm sure that many black women do not equate Snoop's usage with Imus's..." When did I equate Snoop's usage with Imus's? I compared the reaction to the Rutgers ladies-----from most of the white men I saw in the media-----with the reaction from some of the Black men here to much of what nearly all the women here expressed. And I said I see a parallel. | ||
| Yukio AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 2289 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
Tonya: My bad, but: When you said "here," I thought you meant figuratively not "here" at AALBC. Be that as it may, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are men in the media who side with you. When did I equate Snoop's usage with Imus's? You did not. The article does, however. "The same standard of racial accountability must apply whether the racial and gender offender is an Imus or a 50 Cent." I compared the reaction to the Rutgers ladies-----from most of the white men I saw in the media-----with the reaction from some of the Black men here to much of what nearly all the women here expressed. And I said I see a parallel. Right. That does not explicitly say "equate Snoop's usage with Imus's," but parallel sounds a whole lot like the same. Also, only Chris and I have commented here [don't know Ntfs's sex]. And, Chris's comments do not support black men calling black women hos. He is criticizing the logic of the article. And I don't support neither women being called hos nor misogynist lyrics. So, the question becomes, if you are talking about "here," who are you talking about? | ||
| Tonya "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 5170 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: |
Obama hits out at black rappers who degrade women By Tim Shipman, Sunday Telegraph Last Updated: 11:54pm BST 14/04/2007 The man who hopes to become America's first black president has launched an outspoken attack on rap singers who use derogatory language about women. Barack Obama told a crowd at a campaign rally in South Carolina that rap artists were "degrading their sisters", and added: "That doesn't inspire me". The Democratic hopeful for the White House also compared the references to "bitches" and "hos" in rap music to the racist outburst last week which cost the country's most famous "shock jock" his job. Radio talk show host Don Imus, who is white, was sacked after branding a female college basketball team "nappy-headed hos" - a term for black prostitutes with unkempt hair. Sen Obama's comments are part of a growing backlash at the double standards in American public life that mean Mr Imus was fired, but black rappers like Snoop Dogg and Ludacris continue to cash in by using similar imagery. They are also further evidence of Sen Obama's determination to align himself with the concerns of middle America. Last week, however, he came under fire for that very strategy, from black activists who said he was too slow to respond to the Imus affair. While civil rights activist Al Sharpton toured the studios condemning Mr Imus, the senator from Illinois waited five days before making any public statement, and then pointedly refused to make it a racial issue. It was only following a wave of public criticism of his caution, that he later joined the calls for Mr Imus to lose his job. A California Democrat activist, who worked on the previous presidential campaigns of both Rev Mr Sharpton and Rev Jesse Jackson, told The Sunday Telegraph: "A lot of people of colour are uncomfortable with Barack Obama. He wants the kudos of being the first African American who could win the presidency, but he does not want to get there by becoming a leader who speaks to African-Americans." Melissa Harris Lacewell, a professor of African-American studies at Princeton University, said: "Black people want to love Barack, but they will turn on him." As the son of a recent African immigrant, Sen Obama cannot claim any link to slavery or the civil rights movement and is, therefore, not seen as "authentic" by many in the traditional black leadership. The latest poll shows Democrat front-runner Hillary Clinton leading him by 50 per cent to 41 per cent among black voters. Sen Obama's calculation, however, is that he has a greater chance of winning the presidency if he remains a candidate who happens to be black, rather than "the black candidate". One European diplomat compared Sen Obama to Tony Blair: "Most Americans have moved on from the civil rights battles, in the same way that people in Britain have moved on from the union politics of the 1970s. "Obama is a post-civil rights politician just as Blair was post-socialism. The problem he has is that many in the black hierarchy are still fighting the old battles." Information appearing on telegraph.co.uk is the copyright of Telegraph Media Group Limited and must not be reproduced in any medium without licence. For the full copyright statement see Copyright http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/04/15/wrap15.xml | ||
| Tonya "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 5172 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: N/A |
Yukio, I'm aware of Jesse and Al's position on this issue and I'm happy with it (not that it has anything to do with either of my post). "That does not explicitly say "equate Snoop's usage with Imus's," but parallel sounds a whole lot like the same." So what? I’m not applying the word "parallel" to anything Snoop or Imus said. Reread my post. "Also, only Chris and I have commented here..." And I said I was responding to this thread AND the "Snoop on 'ho's'" thread. "...who are you talking about?" All the men who have been opposing the women on this and the other thread. | ||
| Ntfs_encryption "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Ntfs_encryption Post Number: 2076 Registered: 10-2005 Rating: N/A |
"Notice the stance that Black men are taking. They cannot identify with us, nor our pain, nor how wrong it is for us to be called B*tches and ho's and gold-diggers and etcetera by Black men and their music." This is true. All black men enjoy and actively partake in the denigration and personal attacks (both verbal and physical) of black women. Ive never met a brother yet that did not despise them. Why not? Just because their mothers, sisters, daughters, family members and lovers are black women, that's not a good enough reason to not hate and degrade them. Besides, it's fun. You didn't know this..??? Just earlier today, I heard a young black man say the only thing worse than a nappy headed n/igger b/itch was a nappy headed n/igger bitches mama (his words -not mine). And there ya have it...... | ||
| Renata AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 2015 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
LOL.....black people would rather vote for Hilary because Obama ain't "black enough" for them. Because if there's one thing Hilary Clinton is, it's black enough for us. FUCKING JOKES. | ||
| Enchanted Veteran Poster Username: Enchanted Post Number: 784 Registered: 11-2005 Rating: N/A |
Bet Quote of the week: "Notice the stance that Black men are taking. They cannot identify with us, nor our pain, nor how wrong it is for us to be called B*tches and ho's and gold-diggers and etcetera by Black men and their music." | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 9212 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Are we to believe that Imus REALLY takes his cues for how to talk about and to Black women from gangsta rappers? WTF kinda idiots are Hutchinson trying to take us for, here? I agree that Black women (and, btw, men) are often unfairly scapegoated for many of America's social ills. But gangsta rap and the hip-hop thug culture endures largely because the foks who are MOST responsible for the financing and disseminating it are almost NEVER confronted about what they're helping to enable. I say, again, if you want to blunt the violence and misogyny within hip-hop, you must confront the people and entities who finance, support and profit MOST from what Snoop and 50 do. That's Viacom, Sony, Vivendi, Universal, etc. Because THEY'RE the one's who enabled gangsta rap to become as potent as it is. But let's be real, here: It's much easier for Hutchinson to decry how evil 50 Cents and Snoop Dogg are than it is criticize their much more wealthy, powerful sponsors and backers (foks who might, at least indirectly, back Hutchinson HIMSELF). It's interesting. I mean, are we basically asserting that a man should not be able to call a woman ANY unflattering name simply because she’s a WOMAN? Because, really, if I want to call a woman a b*tch or ho whom I think DESERVES the title, and I'm angry enuff, I'm going to call her a b*tch or ho. Fuhk that PC sh*t. Because there ARE whorish, b*tch type women. And I don't think there should be any more special prohibition of someone citing such as there is, say, against calling an idiot and idiot or someone who cheats a cheater. PS: I declare. In a minute, a Black man's going to have to get prior approval from a committee of rabid, man-eating dykes just to occasionally hold his own dyck in his hand. | ||
| Renata AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 2018 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
ABM, no one's even saying anything about those who ARE whorish, bitchy women. But as I said, the MAJORITY of women who are called that AREN'T, and are called that by men who wouldn't know whether we are or not anyways. |
