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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5083
Registered: 07-2006
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 07:23 am: | 
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Cover Story
April 5, 2007
The ••••• Ho Problem
Vandy scholar explores the sexual politics of hip-hop
by Maria Browning
A crowd of rowdy young men enter a mansion that’s staffed by an army of voluptuous, thonged and bikinied women. They shake and pop and gyrate, bend over and spread their charms, take it from behind and get busy with each other. The guys haul them around like sides of meat, pulling their legs apart and shoving their asses toward the camera. But it’s cool: the girls are smiling because these boys have plenty of cash, and that makes it all right. The bills shower down on female flesh, along with champagne—and whatever else might be flowing. The climax to this conjoining of sex and money? A grinning man swipes a credit card between a girl’s ripe buttocks.
That’s pretty tame porn, you might say, and you’d be right—but it’s not porn; at least it’s not marketed as such. It’s the video for rapper Nelly’s hit “Tip Drill,” which has been beamed into millions of U.S. households via cable’s BET network, along with other rap videos in the same vein. Networks like MTV and VH1 show them, too. The “Tip Drill” video leads the pack in raunchiness, but only narrowly, and its lyrics are mild compared to some.
It’s rude stuff, but there’s no denying its popularity. Slick, sexed-up, beat-driven party rap is the most lucrative segment of hip-hop, and hip-hop has CD sales of more than a billion dollars annually, accounting for about 14 percent of the overall music market. That means a large chunk of current youth culture features the wild ho and the pimp who does her, pays her and kicks her to the curb as stock characters. They’re the Punch and Judy of the 21st century.
There’s never been a lack of voices condemning “indecency” in pop music, and rap has taken its lumps on that score since the days when Tipper Gore launched the Parents’ Music Resource Center. Rap has always loved the “f” word and the “n” word and a lot of other words that drive Mom crazy. But the brutal treatment of women has become far more pronounced as rap has entered the big money ranks of the music industry, and that has led to critiques from all sides, even from its supporters. Leaving aside the question of why the marketplace is suddenly filled with hypersexual music, it’s worth asking what effect it has on the kids who consume it.
Tracy Denean Sharpley-Whiting explores one aspect of that question in her book, Pimps Up, Ho’s Down: Hip Hop’s Hold on Young Black Women. While the “Tip Drill” aesthetic may be an insult to all women, Sharpley-Whiting contends it has a particular effect on young black women, who are still largely invisible elsewhere in mainstream media. Because there are few other images of young black women to balance it, the way they are portrayed in the world of hip-hop music and fashion is especially potent. Sharpley-Whiting believes what she calls the “pervasive misogyny” of current rap represents a real threat to black women, both in terms of how they see themselves and in how the world sees them.
Speaking in her office at Vanderbilt, where she is a professor of French and director of the Department of African American and Diaspora Studies, Sharpley-Whiting is quick to say that she grew up listening to Public Enemy and still has a certain fondness for Snoop Dog and Tupac. “I love The Chronic,” she says. “I think Dr. Dre is a genius.” These are surprising words from a feminist scholar. Dr. Dre’s The Chronic (1992) is a classic gangsta rap recording, including tracks with titles like “Bitches Ain’t Shit.” But Sharpley-Whiting wants to make it clear that her book is not an anti-rap screed. “I don’t beat up on hip-hop culture,” she says. “There are some aspects of hip-hop that make me absolutely proud.”
And she wants it understood that hip-hop is more than rap music and videos. “It’s not just the music. It’s the style of dress, a certain swagger. There’s the linguistic aspect of it, there’s literature—there’s a whole range of things. Music tends to be at the forefront when we have these discussions about what hip-hop is or what it should be, but it’s bigger than that.”
In fact, there is a lively world of hip-hop art and literature, and there’s a contingent of “conscious rappers,” who produce music with thoughtful social commentary. Critics of raunchy rap invariably mention Common, who seems to be regarded as a combination of Pat Boone and Bruce Cockburn—virtue meets consciousness-raising. (To get an idea of what that means in the marketplace, go to Crave Online’s database of hip-hop videos and compare viewing stats: “Tip Drill,” as of this writing, has been played 50,844 times. Common’s gently sexy “Go” has had a total of three plays.)
Sharpley-Whiting’s book is the latest entry in a long and lively discourse about the cultural worth of hip-hop. Prominent black culturati—including critic Stanley Crouch and jazz great Wynton Marsalis—have made it their mission to slam hip-hop and rap for promoting pathology within the black community, and for playing to white prejudices. Marsalis calls rap “ghetto minstrelsy” and says that it debases its audience and its performers. At the same time, there’s an equally heavy-duty contingent—including leading academics Cornel West, Michael Eric Dyson and Henry Louis Gates—who speak up for hip-hop as a genuine black cultural expression, and argue that rap music, in its lyrical agility and sexual frankness, has something in common with Chaucer and Shakespeare. Many academics, including Sharpley-Whiting’s Vanderbilt colleague Kathryn Gines, have incorporated hip-hop into their classrooms and their scholarly work.
When asked where she comes down in this debate, Sharpley-Whiting says, “I recognize it as an aspect of African American culture.... It makes me quite proud when I think about the ability of black people to be so creative in the cauldron of U.S. racism—that they’ve been able to survive, and that they’ve been able to be so creative and create things that have a global currency in a way that is undeniable.... I take pride in that aspect of hip-hop.”
As for the “minstrelsy” accusation—i.e., that hip-hop’s large white following is somehow motivated by pandering to racist stereotypes—Sharpley-Whiting sees more of a positive crossing of the color barrier. “What we’ve seen is that it’s become race-transcending. It really is American youth culture. Someone from North Nashville may have a hip-hop flavor that’s different from a student at Vanderbilt, [but] I still see the influence of hip-hop. I still see the influence of black culture.”
And yet, for all her admiration, Sharpley-Whiting is appalled by the gross sexism of today’s rappers. Somewhere on the road from the eloquent angst of rap pioneers such as Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five to the mindless party beats of Crime Mob, hip-hop’s image of women became utterly demeaning. The voluptuous video ho, strutting, gyrating, offering herself as a commodity, is the female face of hip-hop today, although “face” may be the wrong anatomical term. There was a time when strong, pro-woman female rappers had real currency in the hip-hop world, but one look at the play list for Nashville’s hip-hop station 101.1 The Beat reveals that commercially successful women rappers are pretty scarce now. And performers like Lil’ Kim only put a feminine spin on the same crass notions of sex and beauty found in the men’s recordings.
In fact, Lil’ Kim, with her reported skin lightening and surgically narrowed nose, is a walking illustration of one of the biggest burdens hip-hop imagery places on black women—a “whitened” standard of beauty that features long, straight hair and fairer skin. It’s a cruel irony for young black women when a realm of pop culture that claims to embrace African American experience actually repeats an ancient rejection of beauty that’s too defiantly non-European—in other words, too black. Sharpley-Whiting describes some of the ways this “whiter is better” beauty ideal plays out, whether in the rejection of a young black candidate on America’s Next Top Model (a show that is extremely popular with African American viewers), or in the current fetish among some African American men for ethnically mixed Brazilian women as objects of sexual tourism and mail order brides.
It’s fair to say that most women feel subjected to impossible standards of beauty, and apart from their particular racial twist, hip-hop’s beauty issues closely mirror those in the media generally. But the booty issue is another matter. Rap’s portrayal of sexuality is far more explicit, and more cold-blooded, than what’s usually found in the mainstream culture. Party rap rarely refers to a woman as anything but a “•••••” or a “ho.” Only the ho has any value, and that’s solely as a sexual object who earns an equal measure of admiration and contempt for her sexual insatiability. Her sexuality is not an expression of her desire—it’s a commodity for sale to the high bidder, to the alpha male who claims sexual rights by virtue of his power, wealth and prowess.
Sharpley-Whiting looks at this heartless portrayal of sexuality from a number of angles. She provides sympathetic insight into what motivates the video vixens, writing that “many of these women are singers, professional models, dancers and aspiring actresses, earning their rent, tuition monies or commercial exposure for a day’s work on a shoot.” She devotes a chapter of the book to hip-hop’s groupie culture, examining its appeal to young women. But she also documents the sad result when they follow its sexual model: black teens “represent 65 percent of reported HIV/AIDS cases among youth, in spite of being only 15 percent of the U.S. population.”
Pimps Up, Ho’s Down attributes part of the problem to black strip clubs, which have become the main proving ground for new rap music. It’s cheaper to plunk down a 10 dollar cover and tip a DJ than it is to pay for radio ads, and if the dancers and men go for a song, it’s on its way to being a hit. “Strip clubs are to hip-hop what Zogby [polling] is to politics—an indicator of what moves the crowd.” Obviously, what goes over well in the atmosphere of a strip club is more likely to be raunchy than respectful, and to perpetuate the image of women as sexual property.
But why would women who aren’t denizens of the strip club world be happy consumers of its music? Sharpley-Whiting suggests history is at play. In racist cultures, African American women are seen as promiscuous, she says. Indeed, when rape charges against the Duke lacrosse players topped the headlines last year, black women students at Vanderbilt were quoted in the national media about recurring sexual harassment from white men on campus, who seemed to assume they were sexually available because they were black. In this persistent context, black women have sometimes reacted by moving to the opposite extreme—denying their own sexuality. And yet reactive sexual conservatism within the African American community has also weighed heavily on young black women. For some of them, the unrestrained sexuality of hip-hop, though it is deeply poisonous in its own way, can be a sort of antidote to repression. “Hip-hop says it’s okay to be sexual,” says Sharpley-Whiting. “Celebrate your black ‘womanness.’ ”
Sharpley-Whiting also suggests that there is a certain tolerance of sexual aggression—or at least silence about it—within the black community, again due to the legacy of racism. She uses Aishah Simmons’ outstanding 2006 film about African American women’s experience of rape, No! The Rape Documentary ( notherapedocumentary.org ), as a springboard to discuss why it’s difficult for black women to protest sexual hostility from black men. Just as black women have been stereotyped as promiscuous, black men have been labeled as sexually dangerous—false charges of raping white women were the common justification for lynchings. Combine that history with the general distrust and devaluation of black men in white-dominated society, and the result is tremendous pressure for black women to avoid burdening black men with further criticism, or giving prejudice more ammunition. This pressure contributes to a “code of silence” about sexual assault and harassment at every level; thus the tendency to turn a blind eye to the lewd images of hip-hop.
There’s no doubt that hip-hop’s image of women has currency within the larger culture, even at a privileged institution like Vanderbilt. Former Vandy student Ketura Brown, who is of African American and West Indian ancestry, recalls a conversation with a male student in which she jokingly said she hated rap. He replied, “It’s probably because you’re not like the girls in the video: you’re smart, maybe a little like them because you are light-skinned, but you don’t seem stupid. I can’t see you acting like that; you’ve got class.” She says, “I realized in that moment, assumptions—about my intelligence, class, education and expectations—were all being made and influenced by rap/hip-hop.” Brown was relieved to be seen as different from the women in a typical rap video, but she also couldn’t help wondering “whether or not he started with the assumption that I was like them and he had to be proven wrong.”
The rap music world is keenly aware that it is under attack for its sexism. Sharpley-Whiting herself says “it’s fashionable to critique hip-hop,” and there’s a host of organized efforts to improve it, from Essence magazine’s Take Back the Music campaign to the Rap Sessions tour that will visit Vanderbilt next week. The people within hip-hop’s profitable commercial mainstream don’t always get much of a voice in this debate. They tend to be dismissed as merely money-grubbing, but some of them do have thoughtful things to say on the issue.
Julia Beverly, founder and editor-in-chief of the hip-hop fan magazine Ozone, which is discussed at some length in Pimps Up, Ho’s Down, agrees there’s a problem but feels the blame is largely misplaced. “I’ve always been a critic of the men’s lyrics. I don’t think that anyone could argue it doesn’t affect us, but I think the way you’re raised has more effect. [Rap music] doesn’t change who somebody is.” She points out that she’s a young woman who’s been listening to the music and working in hip-hop circles as a journalist for years, and she’s never been lured into the drugs and sex scene. She argues for personal responsibility when it comes to sexuality. “There’s too much emphasis placed on the symptoms of the problem rather than the root of the problem. If you respect yourself and who you are as a person, you’re not going to be out there sleeping around.”
Sharpley-Whiting will be a featured panelist for Rap Sessions: Does Hip Hop Hate Women? On April 12, at 4:40 p.m. in Stevenson Center Lecture Hall 4309 on the Vanderbilt University Campus. For more information visit rapsessions.org Speaking to the question of why rappers don’t produce more high-minded music, she says, “Some of the blame belongs on the public. If you listen to the complete album or catalog of an artist, there’s often a song in there dedicated to their mother or their wife that does show respect to women. The public doesn’t support it.” It’s the sex that sells, she notes, pointing out that Ozone got a big sales boost when it put out the controversial “groupie confessions” that Sharpley-Whiting discusses in her book. “If people want the rappers to put out more positive messages they have to support that.”
Rapper/actor David Banner produced the recording of the infamous “Tip Drill” and has clearly gotten tired of defending it. “’Tip Drill’ is adult entertainment—for adults,” he says in exasperation. He seconds Beverly’s complaint about critics who don’t put their money where their mouths are. Mentioning his spiritually focused “Cadillac on 22’s,” he says, “America didn’t flock to that. The people that are criticizing us are not buying our records.” He points out that artists are ultimately at the mercy of the music business. “Record companies find one type of music that sells, and they don’t do anything else.”
As for damaging effects of misogyny in hip-hop, he says, “America’s the most misogynistic place in the world. …If we want to talk about misogyny, let’s talk about the beer companies putting women in bikinis to sell their product. People are blaming America’s misogyny on young black men.” He argues that the violence and sexism of hip-hop are being judged by a hypocritical and racist standard. “Everything that America crucifies young black men for is what America was built on—slavery, murder, misogyny. This is America’s problem.”
Tracy Sharpley-Whiting doesn’t disagree. “The misogynistic aspects of hip-hop are pervasive in American culture,” she says. “The idea that women today would rather starve themselves than eat in order to conform to a certain idea around beauty is just as damaging for me when I see it as some guy in a rap song saying ‘•••••, ho.’ I find it just as troubling.” And she agrees with David Banner that black men are judged hypocritically, pointing out that their negative behavior is always treated as if it’s “the dirtiest of the dirty.” Indeed, the frankness of hip-hop is apparently too much for the wider, whiter culture even when it’s attached to an intellectual critique: the title of her book shut her out of book signings at suburban Nashville bookstores.
But her recognition of the failures of the larger society doesn’t mean she thinks hip-hop should be let off the hook. What she’s trying to promote with Pimps Up, Ho’s Down is a constructive criticism that encourages hip-hop to revive its creativity and authenticity, and stop pandering to what she calls the “lowest common denominator.” The “global currency” of hip-hop holds real cultural potential. Like jazz, it can be both a positive face of America and a truly international art form.
Battling the sexism of hip-hop is key to accomplishing that goal, as Sharpley-Whiting sees it, and she envisions that process as having benefits that go far beyond elevating popular music. For young women of color, as for their white counterparts, “feminism” is something of a dirty word, but the glaring misogyny that permeates hip-hop is awakening a new generation to gender issues in an immediate, personal way. They take a look at the endless gyrations on BET and begin to consider that maybe sexism is worth thinking about.
As Sharpley-Whiting puts it, “I think we’re at a moment when hip-hop can revivify feminism. I think hip-hop has made young women much more conscious about gender. They may stop short of calling themselves feminists, but they are exhibiting gender consciousness. Hip-hop can learn some things from feminism, feminism can learn some things from hip-hop … It’s a very interesting moment when those two are meeting.”
http://www.nashvillescene.com/Stories/Cover_Story/2007/04/05/The_Bitch_Ho_Proble m/index.shtml |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9126
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 07:57 am: |
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In summary:
Young Black men are vile, evil misogynists hellbent on destroying any/everything involving Black females. And Black women are the heroic, long-suffering victims of any/everything they become involved with that negatively features them.
Bvllshyt!
The most important, relevant thing expressed with this article is from rapper David Banner: "Record companies find one type of music that sells, and they don’t do anything else."
If foks were SERIOUS about wanting to thwart what they decry of hip-hop, they would confront Sony Records, Universal Records, BMG, etc. Not a frickin' Nelly, Ludacris and Fitty Cent. |
Dahomeyahosi
Regular Poster
Username: Dahomeyahosi
Post Number: 247
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 11:29 am: |
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The record companies have been confronted. That's the reason why there are parental advisory labels etc. However the rappers are also at fault and shouldn't be viewed as innocents caught up in a whirlwind. Record companies are money making entities and they'll promote anything that makes money. If David Banner were right the music landscape would have never changed and we'd be seeing jazz videos on MTV today. The record companies will take a chance on whatever they think will sell. However the "artists" are just as ready and willing to spew the most vile filth and they have to take personal responsibility for their product.
The saddest part of this issue, for me, is having to see black women pack audiences for these "artists." It just makes no sense. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8178
Registered: 01-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 11:58 am: |
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This subject has been done to death, and maybe it's time to take a different tack. At this point, I'm inclined to ask do rappers really promote mysogyny? I don't think their lyrics influence guys to hate women. They're more about fearing what women are capable of doing to them and the videos just serve to portray how desireable women are. Strong smart black women are not threatened by images. They know that any man worth having is someone who respects them for who they are. The rest of the bimbos have to learn the hard way. But learn they do. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9130
Registered: 04-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 12:35 pm: |
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Dahomeyahosi,
The music business is like any other business: The record companies have the money. And as the money goes, so does the power.
There are PUUUULENTY of hip-hop rappers and singers who do NOT espouse mayhem and misogyny record companies can take chances on (Hell. I personally know and have helped financially support a few of'em myself). But why should the record companies change when they believe they can safely make money doing what they're already doing?
Most of these hip-hop artists are hustling to get paid. They are NOT especially concerned by any of our views about morality or social responsibility.
(Hell. Fitty Cent went within the span of just a 2 year period from getting shot 9 times to being at the top of the Billboard Charts. You honestly think he gives a dayam what foks like you and I think/say about the kind of music he's made MILLIONS from?)
Popular hip-hop artists are NOT going to be moved to change by anything OTHER than what their employers - the foks who've made them rich & famous - the record companies require of them.
15 years ago, Ice T released a song called Cop Killer. Police groups and their supporters protested Time Warner, the distributor of T’s record. Time Warner got LOTS of negative press, the company's stock price began to fall and, guess what, Time Warner caught the holy spirit and pressured T to remove the song from his album.
PS: " The saddest part of this issue, for me, is having to see black women pack audiences for these "artists." It just makes no sense."
Now that, THERE, is a part of the problem too. |
Schakspir
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Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 958
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 03:48 pm: |
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The article was a rehashing of a rehashing of a rehashing. The author even misread what Prof. Gates really feels about people like 50 cent and Nelly. Gates doesn't like them, Crouch and West don't like them, etc. I don't think anybody with a brain enjoys much of their mindless doo-doo.
BTW I've always felt that there was a strong undercurrent of homosexuality in these thug rappers--or, if not homosexuality then definitely a sexual insecurity. The hatred of "faggots," coupled with the constant need to prove how macho and manly they are, and the endless parade of mindless bimbos on the screen are an attempt on these rappers' parts to assert a masculinity which is actually very weak. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5084
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 06:55 pm: |
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"The saddest part of this issue, for me, is having to see black women pack audiences for these "artists." It just makes no sense."
Yeah, but let's get it straight. The majority of the Blk women packing these night clubs, concerts & ect are NOT the poor Black women who are affected the most by these artists/images. They are NOT welfare mothers or women from low income housing developments. They are usually at least somewhat educated, middle class Blk girls and Blk women who can afford these events. ...When I’m at clubs, concerts, record stores, ect, THAT’S who I see. |
Yukio
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Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2213
Registered: 01-2004
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 07:48 pm: |
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Hmmm...very interesting article, and book too, I suspect. I, however, think as Schakspir put it, [t]he article was a rehashing of a re-hashing of a rehashing."
Implicit in this article, the books, and others like it, is that there is some sense of black solidarity or black community.
And it is, but its fractured by class and gender, of course. Gender and class issues are always issue throughout society, but it takes greater urgency because we are a 'minority' group, that is both in terms of numbers and basic power.
Thus, what this article is really saying is, black culture is good, black men exploiting black women is acceptable, because white folk like, and it contributes to white folk think black women are easy....thats it! And this....is true!
But the class dynamic is undervalued, here. for obtaining a ph.d in french literature is one way of stepping up in the world, and selling records and making millions, as ABM has pointed out, is another. It is the rags-to-riches story, hortio alger, etc....protestant work ethic; we can spin it many ways, but Fifty has fulfilled the American Dream, but since he's black he is slandered for it....
Now mind you, I don't agree with the misogyny, but this is indeed ironic, and an interesting way to look at the politics of race in America! |
Dahomeyahosi
Regular Poster
Username: Dahomeyahosi
Post Number: 248
Registered: 01-2006
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 09:39 pm: |
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Tonya,
I can't honestly say I've attended any of these concerts so I'll take your word for it. I have second hand information because of what I see on tv (i.e. females screaming in the audience of 106 & Park) or the award shows. But why do you say that poor black women are affected most by these artists/images ? Why are they affected more than working class or middle class black women?
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Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1941
Registered: 08-2005
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 09:53 pm: |
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ABM, I think what would help most is if there were more men like you who raised their children to be respectful, instead of leaving their sons to look to neighborhood drug dealers for lessons in manhood.
I own two hip hop albums: The greatest hits of The Fresh Prince and The Carnival by Wyclef Jean (which is absofreakinglutely beautiful, even the song that are in French). There is no disrespect on either of their albums towards anyone and you can blare it and not worry about being offended by it. But from what I've read about their fathers, they both were raised to be as respectful as they are. |
Dahomeyahosi
Regular Poster
Username: Dahomeyahosi
Post Number: 249
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 09:55 pm: |
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Abm,
Yes some people will do anything for a dollar and I'd expect nothing more from a person who calls himself 50 cent. However my problem is that these people don't expect to be called out on it. Ludachris and 50 cent have actually appeared surprised when people have pointed a finger at their trash and implied that they should be ashamed of it. There are plenty of ways to make money: rappers, soldier for hire, and pimp are some of them. I'm not sure if these rappers are authentically surprised to hear that many people think their line of work is less honorable than other lines of work. I can only hope they are pretending. It seems you are saying that the American dream is about earning money irrespective of its source. What a sad dream. I don't think that calling these people out has anything to do with race. There are plenty of black people who've succeeded financially, without sullying themselves, and therefore have no fingers pointed at them. 50 cent and his brethren are attacked because they are essentially disgusting human beings, just as white Eminem is. Black people do not have to stoop anywhere close to this level to succeed financially.
Yes there must be some decent rappers but I am of the opinion that the world of music would be better off without this genre even if the decent ones dissapear as well. However at the end of the day it is the individuals who buy this garbage that drive its production and I support their freedom to make poor decisions. But when women do it I see it as equivalent to me buying white supremacist (sp) jingles. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5089
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 05:08 am: |
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Dahomeyahosi
The poor & the voiceless ALWAYS suffer the most. In this particular case, the women being degraded in these videos are by all accounts there to represent the artists’ deeply flawed perceptions of poor/working class "ghetto" Black women. Not saying other Black women aren’t affected. Whenever women are shown in such an undignified degrading manner, all women suffer, regardless of class, race or color. But poor and working class Black women are affected the most in this case because supposedly that's who's being depicted in these disgraceful humiliating outrageous videos & songs. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9136
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 11:03 am: |
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Dahomeyahosi,
You all are ignoring the source and history of why "50 cent and his brethren" have become so prominent. If you ignore the fact that over 85% of all of the millions those guys earn and virtually ALL of their financing come from non-Blacks, you're not really serious about addressing the problem. |
Yvettep
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Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1880
Registered: 01-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 08:39 am: |
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ABM, I agree that the $$ behind the music is a big part of what is driving this nonsense. But who are the consumers? At least where I live, it is the White teens and 20-somethings. The demand for the most outrageous of this music is being driven less by Black consumers (who are a minority anyway) and more by White ones.
A while back I joked that the only way to change this is for there to be a new punk or grunge or some other music form that speaks to and captures the imagination of White youth--and that perhaps Black producers should be actively seeking these performers out to hasten along this process!
What also may change is that as older rappers become more and more replaced by the more minstrel-ly types, they will find that it is easier to go against the grain than to try to compete. Also, there may soon be a change in "tastes" that naturally happens in any popular art form, where young people decide that a new form of hip hop is more in.
In the meantime, however, the fact remains that no one is forcing rap artists to behave the way they do--on disc, in videos, and too often in real life. If your soul can be bought that easily then you must not have had much of one to begin with...
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Dahomeyahosi
Regular Poster
Username: Dahomeyahosi
Post Number: 250
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 11:44 am: |
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Abm,
I'm addressing the whole problem and the rappers are a huge part of that problem. As are the consumers. However without the rappers the consumers would have nothing to buy yes? You seem to be letting the rappers off the hook entirely. If I'm wrong let me know but if I'm right how can you justify this?
Honestly I'm not interested in the reasons that cause white people to pay for this garbage but I assume it's the same reason they enjoy watching Dave Chappelle -- minstrels are fun. It's a reflection of the fact that some black people continue to allow themselves to be amusement for white people and honestly don't care about the repercussions as long as they are making their money. Whites make up the majority of this country and it is only natural that they make up the majority of the popular music-buying audience. It makes no difference if the popular music be rap, country, or bubblegum. Blacks have always made commercially viable popular music so this is no surprise.
On the other hand, I certainly am concerned about the black women who enjoy hearing themselves insulted as long as the insults are accompanied by a hot beat. This is pathology, self-hate at its finest. I've seen the results of black women trying to fit into their defined role of video ho 24/7. My students claim they can't afford textbooks yet they have multi-colored weave and their clothes look like they fit someone 7 years their junio. This behavior is mind-boggling, not the behavior of white Preston Jr. whose life is completely untouched by these filthy lyrics and accompanying depictions. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9149
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 05:58 pm: |
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Local Chicago sports columnist Rick Telander makes a point I think bears repeating again and again:
"What we come up with is a schizoid society that is not sure about when to say what, only that there are darned sure times when being Borat, Chris Rock or even Don Rickles is not funny, entertaining or OK.
The trouble is, no one can define precisely when that over-the-edge moment occurs in this crazily evolving techno world.
''South Park,'' Carlos Mencia, Dave Chappelle and Jon Stewart exist in a world just a click away from Christian dogma, from history, from art.
My issues of ''Rolling Stone'' and ''Esquire'' came in the mail today, well-written mags showing Halle Berry dressed like a prostitute (black stockings, G-string panties, corset, come-hither look) on the Esquire cover and Rosario Dawson and Rose McGowan, slutty and nude (except for some bullets), on the cover of Rolling Stone.
What are we to think?
Sex, humor, out-there nuttiness, racist, ''•••••''- and ''ho''-laden rap, satire posing as news, over-the-top censorship next to the cruelest taunts -- who can get his or her bearings these days?
The Rev. Jesse Jackson wants Imus fired.
Remember Jackson calling a city ''Hymietown''?
Who is pure? Who knows what is right?"
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/telander/335951,CST-SPT-rick11.article
Part of what I find unfortunate about this Imus’ fiasco is how everyone sorta goes into some mass, self-righteous fingerpointing mode. None of us want to face the fact that we ALL have and are contributing to what enables the Imus’ of the world.
And why should we do that when it's much more comforting for all us good upstanding foks to blame everything on Fitty and Ludacris. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5109
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 10:13 pm: |
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I’ve condemned Dave Chappelle Chris Rock Rosario Dawson Halle Berry, and the like, to the point of showing no mercy, as well as Bill Cosby Oprah Winfrey and John Ridly...so I really don't know what the hell you're talking about. And what does this have to do with Imus’ guilt or innocence anyway? And why are SO MANY trying to defend this man...? I notice you haven’t said a POSITIVE thing thus far about the REAL victims, the TRUE innocent ones--those amazing young girls from Rutgers. How come? |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5110
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 10:57 pm: |
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And one more thing, I don't care if a woman is walking down the street butt naked with nothing but a toe ring on. That is no reason to call her a "nappy-headed ho". |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9153
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 03:53 am: |
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Tonya,
I'm not aware of all those you've PERSONALLY condemned. Nor is that relevant to what's being expressed here. This issue is less about what you (or I) might do INDIVIDUALLY as it what we as an overall COMMUNITY and SOCIETY permit, condone and support.
And I'm not defending what Imus said. I'm just saying there may be a reason why he felt licensed to say what he said that extends beyond his own racist mind. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5115
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 04:26 am: |
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...He said it was the rap music and the way Black men treat, debase and denigrate Black woman in general that made him feel he could say those things. Unfortunately, I'm not making this up, that's exactly what he said. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9156
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 05:46 am: |
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Tonya,
Well. I don't have a problem with Imus saying that. Because, hell, that might be how he truly feels and thinks. But that don't mean what he thinks is valid nor does it means it should have led to how he ACTED. |
Enchanted
Veteran Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 768
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 06:47 am: |
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the Rutgers girl team are going to be on the Oprah Winfrey Show fyi Miss Tanya |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1971
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 10:43 am: |
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#1: I don't agree with him saying that, but there must be something said about our willingness to accept such language from black men that we don't accept from anyone else.
#2: I think there is a (hopefully small) percentage of women who were probably more offended at being called nappy-headed, than at being called a ho. But seriously, the "ho" part was the only part that offended me. |
Dahomeyahosi
Regular Poster
Username: Dahomeyahosi
Post Number: 251
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 12:40 pm: |
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Renata #1 hit the nail on the head. I am personally unwilling to accept that kind of language from anyone yet most black women don't seem to care about the rappers and, worse, dance along to the filth.
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5119
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 12:52 pm: |
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Reneta, I sincerely want to see where this all goes next...because if it doesn't address Black men and Black music REAL SOON, it was never really about our daughters, now was it? Enough about Don Imus... It’s time to get these niggaz off our backs. I can’t believe Bob Johnson actually had the NERVES to sit his ass up on the news last night to BLAST Don Imus---it’s time we bytch about that. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9167
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 01:30 pm: |
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Renata,
Could Tom Joyner, Steve Harvey or some other famed Black male radio personality get away with saying "nappyheaded hos" on the airways? I don't think so. Though I think it's less likely there would be as many BLACK foks clamoring for their termination as there are those who are after Imus' canning.
And my wife and I were noting the irony of how/why Black foks are bothered by the "nappyheaded" part of Imus' comments. Because, hell, most us do have naturally 'nappy' hair. And we BLACK foks are as much responsible for (via all the straightening/perming) maintaining the negative connotation of that word as White foks are. |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1974
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 01:41 pm: |
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I do believe if they had said "hos" without nappyheaded attached to it, no one would bat an eye. But mostly I'm thinking of the rappers and such.
HELL, if Imus had alluded to weaves or relaxers and said SILKY-HAIRED HOS, no one would have been offended enough to even have this conversation. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5122
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 01:55 pm: |
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PLEASE!! It's not like he said "nappyheaded" in a positive way. He was clearly being racist when he said it. Why is everybody defending this man?? He's just as bad as the rappers--even worse--because that shit shouldn't have come out of the mouth of a 66 year old man - (White, Black or Whatever).
|
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1491
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 01:55 pm: |
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Why are black people always looking for way to place the blame on ourselves for white peoples wrong actions? Can't they just be damn wrong on thier own about any damn thing without thier wrongs having a root in something we've said or done????????????? |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1492
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 01:59 pm: |
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HELL, if Imus had alluded to weaves or relaxers and said SILKY-HAIRED HOS, no one would have been offended enough to even have this conversation
Renata please tell me that you don't really believe that black people would not have been equally as offended by Don Imus calling them a silky headed ho????
HO is the more offensive word even though i'm sure Imus meant for nappy headed to be offensive as well |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9170
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 02:05 pm: |
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Renata,
I'm not sure Imus would have gotten away with calling them hos. I do think, though, the nappyheaded part set this thing off.
Tonya & A_womon,
Why is nappyheaded in/of itself a slur? |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1977
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 02:07 pm: |
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Nappy headed doesn't offend me. I don't care how anyone says it or who says it. It just doesn't bother me. Sorry. Anyone else can be as offended with it as they wish, but it just doesn't offend me at all.
I'm not making an excuse for him. My point is that I won't accept that language from ANYONE, black or white or other. |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1978
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 02:08 pm: |
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LOL......I have chemicals in my hair to get a manageable AFRO....that's pretty nappy! It would hardly make sense for me to get annoyed if someone points it out. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5124
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 02:20 pm: |
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Abm,
"Why is nappyheaded in/of itself Why is nappyheaded in/of itself a slur??"
It's not. But I KNOW you are not going to sit up here and act like Don Imus didn't mean as a racial slur. If so, why are you trying so hard to defend this man? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8243
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 02:28 pm: |
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Nobody is saying Imus is guiltless. But he was supplied with the lingo to deliver his comments. Although he may have thought it, he probably never would've called the Rutgers team "wooly-haired whores". But he apparently thought he had a license to use the slang so casually popularized by rappers when he called them "nappy-headed hos". He used poor judgment and he is paying for it. Blacks and feminists are taking him to task and his job is on the line. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9173
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 02:28 pm: |
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Tonya,
First: Stop getting cranky. K?
Now. I agree Imus meant it as a slur. Especially when connected with ho. But I wonder if we should begin to undemonize the term so that it does not mean that (West) African hair is inherently inferior to that of others. |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1494
Registered: 05-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 02:55 pm: |
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It sickens me as I said before for our community to accept something just because white people say it! Now, some white person thought to shift the blame by screaming Imus didn't make up the phrase and that it originated in the black community THAT IS A LIE! White people were trying to insult black women for DECADES with the term nappy! And please--you gonna tell me that white men have never called black women whores before rap??? This is just a smokescreen created by Imus and those like him! I believe that's he knew all he had to do was mention rap and black people would start agreeing with him and bowing down all over the place. YEP YOU sure are right! Hadn't been for those rappers, Imus wouldn't have said what he did! GOOD GOD!!
And then we have the NERVE to say that it was NAPPY and NOT HO that caused the outrage????? No wonder we're in a freakin new millinium discussing race like it was 1920!
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5126
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 02:58 pm: |
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"Tonya, First: Stop getting cranky. K?"
Sorry bro. That's what happens when you fuhk with a sistah while she's PMS-ing. Well...maybe not all sistahs, but I'm just saying...that's how it is with this sistah today. But I WILL ease up because it's really not your fault.....today.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9178
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 03:09 pm: |
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A_womon,
Who here has tried to exonerate Imus of what he's done? Really. If he dies penniless in Montana shack somewhere I'd be Kool-n-the-Gang with that.
I guess what some of us are saying is maybe we can get MORE from what's happened here than just the firing of one some racist cracker.
Tonya,
Cool. I though it might be PMS. But then, these days it ain't quite PC for a man to say such.
Hope you feel better.
And put a hotwater bottle on your tummy. It helps.  |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2045
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 03:14 pm: |
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"And put a hotwater bottle on your tummy. It helps."
Braaaawwwwwwwhaaahhaaaahaaaa! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! ha! Ha! Ha! ...Oh Lord!!!!! (on the floor rolling...!) |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8248
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 03:23 pm: |
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And it sickens me that some are so quick to overlook how black men denigrate and dismiss black women. You can moreorless expect this attitude from white men, but the disgrace is compounded when these white men co-opt the language of a certain element of black men to hurl these insults at black women! |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9182
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 03:25 pm: |
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Ntfs,
It's does, bruh.
Why you laughing? (Hahahahaha!!!) |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1495
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 04:14 pm: |
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Like I said, black men did NOT originate those words I don't care how much you and all the rest of the white people say they did cynique! |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5128
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 04:32 pm: |
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Abm, thanks
I just took a Motrin and 2 Tylenol Pm's and now I'm about to take a nap. I should feel better once the meds kick in...If not I'll whip out the hot water bottle, lol. What do you know about hot water bottles anyway? I'm REALLY enjoying your sensitive side, thanks.
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9188
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 04:42 pm: |
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Tonya,
Babe. I've got a wife and a teenage daughter. If there's one thing I know about it's cramps.
When her cramps are really kicking in, my wife likes for me to spoon her. You know, the whole body heat thing.
-----Wife: What's that stickin me...oh...Dang! Can't you do it without getting hard?
-----Me: Sorry, babe. I figured the extra heat down there might help. |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1496
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 04:45 pm: |
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If you've been down south White men say "hoes" not whore! Take a trip and see or study history a bit more. LIKE I said...rappers did NOT invent the word |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8251
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 04:46 pm: |
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Black men did originate the word "ho", a-woman. We are talking about popular slang and its usage, not the etymology of the word "whore". And the word "nappy" is not in question here, since, presumably, it is not an insult but simply an adjective used to describe the natural state of black hair. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8252
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 04:48 pm: |
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You don't know whether rappers coined the word, or not. How do you KNOW that black men didn't originate it down south?? |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1497
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 04:49 pm: |
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and if Imus wants to credit rappers for thinking for him I guess the next thing we'll see is him walking down the street, busting a sag, and flashing his solid gold fronts!!! Screaming this aint really me this originated in the black community so I had to do it!!! HAHAHHAHAHAHA!! |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1498
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 04:50 pm: |
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And how do YOU know they DID????? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8255
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 05:03 pm: |
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If Don Imus decides to bust a sag and get some gold grills, he will have picked this up from rappers just like he did the word "ho". And he will once again undoubtedly suffer the consequences of his bad judgment. I know that rappers popularized the word "ho". Imus didn't pick it up from listening to rock and roll or C&W. |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1979
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 05:13 pm: |
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"It sickens me as I said before for our community to accept something just because white people say it"
Who said we're accepting "nappy headed" because some white person said it. We accept that term because we are in fact nappy headed. Just because you permed your hair and decide you don't want to be anymore doesn't change that fact for those of us who like it as it is.
I'm angry that he called us "hos", but that would be for anyone. |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1980
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 05:21 pm: |
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I saw Wanda Sykes on the Tonight Show last night. Her response to this controversy: "I'm not nappy headed. My hair is curly."
Of course she is a comedian, so I don't know how serious she was. |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1499
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 05:39 pm: |
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Aint nobody talking bout the word nappy, Renata! so if you're not sure what I mean ASK me!
And according to you you ONCE permed your naps too, right? right. Let's get real! |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1982
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 05:43 pm: |
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And got sick of it because I like MY hair BETTER.....
and didn't even wait for it to grow out, just cut it all off I was so sick of it.
|
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1500
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 05:45 pm: |
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And since you claim to like natural, Renata, natural is not the same as blow drying your hairs STRAIGHT. It is just a matter of the degree of straightness that you have the problem with right???
And cynique since you KNOW that the word ho originated in the black community, which black man was it that first used the word? |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1983
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 05:49 pm: |
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OK....new discussion:
It's been said that everything that happens on the physical and mental planes must happen or be wished for on the astral plane first. According to a couple of people in another discussion board I visit, there have been spirits who show up on the astral to take laughter that they hear. Apparently there is a shortage of laughter on the astral plane, and they're harvesting it to share with others.
The questions is are they hoping to share it and the accompanying positivity with others in the astral so that it can be shared with even more on the physical and mental planes? If so, would this lead to more happiness in the world?
Discuss. |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1501
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 05:51 pm: |
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Yeah, that's what I thought! |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1984
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 05:56 pm: |
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Lady...when I blow dry my hair straight, I know I can go back to afro just as quickly. This is what is meant by CHANGE OF STYLE instead of PERMANENTLY having to put up with it. And I haven't had my hair blow dried straight since I last worked, which was a little over 2 years ago.
I would wear it, straight week one, curly week two, twists week three and four (takes too long to do to leave in for just one week), twist outs for about a week. Sometimes I wore afro puffs (but that was more in my early to mid twenties). No one wants hair that just hangs flat for 365 days because all of the body has been permanently relaxed out of it. |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1985
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 06:00 pm: |
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So I take it you're not interested in spirits on the astral plane stealing stuff from the physical plane? |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2055
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 06:12 pm: |
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"And it sickens me that some are so quick to overlook how black men denigrate and dismiss black women."
Good point. I agree........When I was back in Ohio, my younger cousin had two of his black male friends over one evening. They were laughing at black women and focusing on three subjects: 1. Black women being overweight, 2. Weaves and wigs, 3. Single black women with multiple fathers for their children and no husband. The language and adjectives they used was, well….let’s just say it was very harsh. All three are into hard core rap and hip hop. I’m sure they have learned a lot from those lyrics and those ignorant ass gangsta rap videos. None will date black women. It’s kinda depressing.
"You can moreorless expect this attitude from white men, but the disgrace is compounded when these white men co-opt the language of a certain element of black men to hurl these insults at black women!"
Sigh......True again.....
|
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1502
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 06:15 pm: |
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Permed hair will curl when it's washed, at least mine does, and I can do all of the same things you've named after a perm. I don't fry my hair, I relax the curl...
Ha! Nope! Sorry nope I'm scared of ghosts! See ya! |
A_womon
Veteran Poster
Username: A_womon
Post Number: 1503
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 06:24 pm: |
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Yall act like white boys don't talk about white girls, Just as bad as black boys do! Sheesh! I guess to hear yall tell it aint no white girls with a mulitple baby daddy's and aint no fat white ugly broads neeee ther right ???? Please that's some old bullshit that white people love to keep going...I have HEARD white boys dog out white girls for being fat and ugly too so gimme a break! |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1986
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 06:31 pm: |
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My hair wasn't fried.....just straight. My hair is heavy, though, so that may have contributed to my problems. I tried to get Nia Long's short style once, and it didn't look light and curly. It looked like a bowl haircut, like MOE from the three stooges. It was just too heavy to hold a curl. It wouldn't even bend on the ends. BORING.
NTFS....that's some BS right there (from your cousin's friends). My prissybytch brother in law gave those as his reasons for not EVER dating a black woman. Married a white woman who looked like THREE Oprahs. When I met her, she had already had a stomach stapling and said that she had lost 100 pounds.....but was still so overweight that her hormones were out of wack and she couldn't get pregnant. They divorced and he wasn't even allowed to take his car or any of his furniture. Had to start over with his second wife, who was also overweight and already had a baby.
I can't lie....I've never felt angry towards him about that. I'm so happy that he isn't even an option for black women because who would want that? Unless they just really need a car and some furniture. LOL |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1987
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 06:34 pm: |
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I even tried that Diana Ross thing and my hair just flops over in my face.......but that can probably be fixed with a good cut. |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1989
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 06:41 pm: |
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LOL...BTW....second wife kicked his ass to the curb, too....
LOL
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Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1990
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 06:49 pm: |
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This is the look I would like: |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 2077
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 05:15 am: |
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Uh oh.........................!!!! |
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