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Jackie
Veteran Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 524
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 12:33 am: | 
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Black Women/Black Atheists?
Digress Magazine
Since the days that black women and men were kings and queens in Africa, black women have been regarded as the spiritual backbone and symbol of society. Throughout the middle passage, the centuries of slavery in the United States, and oppression of black people thereafter, religion (mainly polytheism and animism before colonialism followed by Christianity) and the belief in the existence of God or gods for black people helped them wade through many troubled waters and turmoil throughout history.
From pastors to priestesses, black women have adapted some type of religious principles for spiritual sustenance, blessings, and/or to combat adversity in life. Even the Hollywood entertainment industry has perpetuated the image of the religious or spiritual black woman in its movies and television, i.e., Good Times, Waiting To Exhale, Eve's Bayou, The LadyKillers, Woman Thou Art Loosed, The Secret Laughter of Women, MaDea's Family Reunion, Black Snake Moan and many more.
On the contrary, various cultures of people have used religion to perpetuate violence, violence against women, mind control, racism, sexism, hatred, and to commit mass murder. Just research world history and discover what’s done in the name of God. It has been argued that religion is a coping mechanism, a crutch for individuals in distress, and offers believers a false sense of security.
By definition, atheism is the disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods. Given the history of black people in general, what about black women who are non-believers? It’s an oxymoron…a black woman with no spiritual or religious foundation? Well, there are black women who don’t believe in a god and reject religions of all kinds. One may ask: what does it take for a person, especially a black woman to come to terms with such views? Most would assume that these women must have undergone some traumatic event in their lives in order for them to negate the existence of God. Nothing could be further from the truth; I contacted two black females who professed atheism; Veronica Hinton (age 34) and Amber Finley (age 33). Amber was born in Rochester, New York and is married to Reggie Finley, the host of the atheist radio program and website, The Infidel Guy. Amber has been an atheist for 5 years and became one after several in depth conversations with her husband Reggie. It was her prerogative to become an atheist and her family acknowledged her choice. However, when asked how her family accepted her decision, she states, “they just don’t talk about it.” Amber was raised Presbyterian and recalled the methodical procedure of attending church as a child. Amber went to church with her father and brothers, “ I would fall asleep on his lap, have some grape juice and a cracker, that was about it for me.” After her parents divorced, they didn’t go to church anymore. Should Reggie and Amber’s children decide to follow a religion, Amber states, “we will still love and respect them”
Amber adds that she cannot say that there is definitely no god, “When I have proof of the existence of a god, then I’ll know.” Amber is a housewife and occasionally assists her husband with his business. Books that Amber recommended, Atheism: The Case Against God (George H. Smith), Losing Faith In Faith (Dan Barker) and of course her husband’s website, Infidelguy.com.
Veronica Hinton was born and raised in Virginia. She is divorced and has three daughters and currently works in the health/medical insurance field. Veronica’s parents were divorced when she was four years old. She stated that her parents were never really religious but believed that god was around. Her parents were indifferent to her choice of atheism as long as it didn’t hurt anyone. Veronica’s grandparents were devout Jehovah Witnesses.Veronica does not discuss the issue with her grandparents or other religious relatives. When asked what was Veronica’s upbringing and how did she become an atheist she suggested an alternative way for the question posed: How did you maintain your purity and not be indoctrinated by the masses? She made this suggestion because she believes that we are all born atheists. Veronica studied religious doctrines with a passion in college; she’s read the Koran, Torah, six different versions of the Bible (old and new testaments) and the Hindu Dharma. “All of my research and adventures only bolstered my reasons for thinking that religions were all make believe. A device invented as a means of control,” concluded Veronica. She also admitted that she’d fight beside any Christian or Muslim that’s been oppressed because it’s their freedom to believe like it’s her freedom to disbelieve.
In my research and personal experience, I found that there was a severe lack of communication among black families; nuclear or extended. It’s unfortunate that with many black families, issues cannot be brought to the dinner table such as religion and so forth, because a family member is too emotional, self-centered, egotistical, angry, immature or narrow minded to carry out a productive and decent discussion. There’ll be family members who will turn their backs, leave the discussion, curse out everybody, shut down, or worse inflict bodily harm (actually these types of reactions are not just limited to black families). In any event, these negative reactions occur when a discussion only involves personal attacks, blame, resentment, etc. Discussion is supposed to be healthy and involves a great degree of listening and even if there is a disagreement, family members should be able to agree to disagree. This is not to say that discussions won’t be painful or sensitive. They will. However, if black families made a conscious effort to communicate more frequently, then maybe more tragedies, misunderstandings and volatile disagreements and reactions would be thwarted. As far as the topic of religion is concerned and given the state of the world today, one should ponder the question; would this world be a better place with or without religion?
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Brownbeauty123
Veteran Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 1871
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 12:40 am: |
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"would this world be a better place with or without religion?"
It would be the same.
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Brownbeauty123
Veteran Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 1872
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 12:42 am: |
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I've never been a church person, in fact, I cannot stand church at all. I'd rather read the Bible from home. |
Yukio
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 2123
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 12:42 am: |
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where's the link... |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 300
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 07:54 am: |
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I stopped at the first paragraph...couldn't stand to read the rest.
Where is this article from? |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1903
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 08:12 am: |
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LOL....I think that's what most people remember most about their childhoods in church....WELCH'S. |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1904
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 08:18 am: |
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The article actually says little more than nothing: many black women are religious, and atheist black women are uncommon, but they exist, here's the story of two of them. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9021
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 08:20 am: |
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Renata,
That's pretty much my opinion. I mean, there always has been and always we be though who don't think and do as the majority think and do. That doesn't necessarily mean their position has merit and/or they reflect some trend. |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1906
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 08:58 am: |
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I've heard more than once that Catholic children actually have to drink wine in church and have always wondered if that's true. One friend said she even remembers first drinking "Wild Irish Rose" in a church. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9026
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 09:01 am: |
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Renata,
Darling. In France, Children drink wine with supper. |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 307
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 09:04 am: |
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Yeah they do drink wine in Catholic church....represents the blood of Christ. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 5011
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 09:06 am: |
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"Wild Irish Rose"?? Good, Lord--sounds like a set up! They were trying to get her drunk & take her cooty. |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1907
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 09:13 am: |
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That's just psychotic. LOL |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9028
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 09:18 am: |
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Tonya,
Catholic priests are less interested in taking some girls' cooty than they are in taking some BOYS' BOOTY. |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1908
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 09:18 am: |
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Sorry...that was in response to ABM....
all of this has reminded me that my brother sent me as a joke a kitschy Jesus clock with a picture of a blue/blonde Jesus and it lights up. Sorry about the stereotype, but it seriously looks like something a mexican might buy along with a few dozen candles and whatever else they put on those altars of theirs. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9030
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 09:22 am: |
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Renata,
No it isn't. Kids drink wine over there like our kids drink milk. And the French do NOT have the incidents of drunkeness and problems resulting from such that we have here, IN SPITE of our legal prohibitions of children drinking alcohol. |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1909
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 09:30 am: |
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I getcha....LOL....I remember sneaking and getting drunk in my late teens....then I turned 21 and it wasn't so much fun anymore. Maybe if I'd been ALLOWED to drink it wouldn't have been such a big thrill. |
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 921
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:02 am: |
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you can drink beer in germany at a very young age, they have it in their mcdonalds there. |
Fortified
Regular Poster
Username: Fortified
Post Number: 467
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:16 am: |
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The black church has done more harm to the black community than good. I could totally understand a growing number of black women becoming disillusioned with religion and the concept of a God altogether. I believe in God firmly, but go to church and/or read the Bible when I feel like it. It has to be genuine to me, not forced. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9032
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:35 am: |
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Fortified: "The black church has done more harm to the black community than good. I could totally understand a growing number of black women becoming disillusioned with religion and the concept of a God altogether."
What's IRONIC about what you say is that most Black churches have membership that are +70% female. So, really, who's done harm to WHOM? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8038
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 12:46 pm: |
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If anybody is justified in embracing atheism, it's long-suffering, god-forsaken black women whose unrequited love affair with Jesus Christ has left them wanting, - present company excluded. Whassup, Buddha! I love how down to earth you are. Ohmmmmmm. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3983
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 03:12 pm: |
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If anybody is justified in embracing atheism, it's long-suffering, god-forsaken black women whose unrequited love affair with Jesus Christ has left them wanting, - present company excluded. Whassup, Buddha! I love how down to earth you are. Ohmmmmmm
(Well I'll just be Gott-DAMMMED!
I can't belive you call yourself a BLACK woman and write this.
I can see you now. Sitting on the sofa. A picture of Jesus on the wall above you . Fanning yourself with one of those paper church fans. Eyes turned to hebbin'. Clutching your hard working hands to your copious bosom. Singin' one of them old Negro spirituals--as an old Negro you know a million of 'em.--
And then you go and write something like this-- |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8041
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 03:17 pm: |
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Did I call myself a black woman? Didn't I say -"present company excluded"? I hope Bill Cosby's drive to find a cure for autism is successful so you can be healed. Ohmmmmmmmmmm. |
Jackie
Veteran Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 527
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 03:53 pm: |
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I wrote the article and am in the process of revising. ABM & Cynique. Interesting points ! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 8048
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 04:36 pm: |
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Good for you! |
Toubobie
Regular Poster
Username: Toubobie
Post Number: 248
Registered: 08-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 06:49 pm: |
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it's sterotypical to assume that black women are born spiritually inclined. such a stereotype puts a huge burden on black women to be absolute moral beings. such a stereotype is a sexist mechanism used solely to 'keep us in our place." if Mary Belle doesn't aspire to be 'Mammy' or 'Big Mamma,' she 'art LOOSED.' F*CK DAT!
that which motivates many black women to reject religion is our resistance to these age-old predefined notions of black female respectability coupled with the ritualized sexism that is the cornerstone of many religions.
these moral constraints condition us first as little girls then as little girls in adult bodies to not speak up about all things biblical and nothing that pertains to our sexual freedom (wants, needs, desires, RIGHTS) or social equality. Other than that, she is taught to keep her legs and mouth closed.
There is nothing in Christianity, Islam, or Judaism which black women can reference when escaping the physical blows of her abusive husband or even subtle racist/ sexist mechanisms. In fact, the 'sacred' religious doctrines of these socially influential faiths only serve to buttress female marginalization. |
Jackie
Veteran Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 533
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 07:51 pm: |
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Toubobie:"it's sterotypical to assume that black women are born spiritually inclined. such a stereotype puts a huge burden on black women to be absolute moral beings."
I totally agree. I've personally never made the assumption, but it's definitely a widely grasped stereotype. |
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 930
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:18 pm: |
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i have dumped girlfriends over religious stuff. to be honest with you i have never met a sistah who wasn't a christian of some sort. i really don't care unless they do the holy ghost shyt or start putting oil on me and crazy azz stuff like that. |
Renata
Veteran Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 1917
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:30 pm: |
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LOL.....Doberman....
My grandmother was one of those "oil" people. Would want to put it on all the grandchildren's foreheads. And it was just extra virgin olive oil. I just wanted to pour it on my salad. |
Jackie
Veteran Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 534
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:34 pm: |
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Oil on the forehead...dayum ! I saw some extreme rituals in Cuba and Ghana. It's interesting to me tho. |
Fortified
Regular Poster
Username: Fortified
Post Number: 469
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 04:23 pm: |
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Fortified: "The black church has done more harm to the black community than good. I could totally understand a growing number of black women becoming disillusioned with religion and the concept of a God altogether."
Abm: What's IRONIC about what you say is that most Black churches have membership that are +70% female. So, really, who's done harm to WHOM?
*****************
Abm, think about that 70% black female population in the church. Think about what led them there. The vast majority of them are single mothers. How many times have I heard that God will be a "husband to the husbandless and a father to the fatherless"?
These women subconsciously crave a male presence in the home and since they don't have one, they often turn to churches where the head is God-fearing, authoritative, (typically) male leader--their pastor. These women are taken in...it gives them a sense of belonging and purpose outside of their 9-5's.
I have seen cases where some of these married women are so wrapped up in their pastors that they lose respect for their own husbands. My mom's friend almost left her husband (a good man, mind you) over church. I am so glad she stopped herself.
These church administrators see this, know this and are so busy cashing in, instead of seeing this as an opportunity to better our communities.
Who's at fault here? Both black women and black men. If black men were true present leaders of the home, the pastors wouldn't take their place. If black women were to think for their damned selves and not fall into the christian mammy stereotype, they would strive to establish themselves as real pillars in their communities and not just fill up pews on a Sunday.
To be brutally honest, I find it refreshing when I meet a sista who is not a Christian. |
Brownbeauty123
Veteran Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 1878
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 04:37 pm: |
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"To be brutally honest, I find it refreshing when I meet a sista who is not a Christian."
Why? Not all Christians are like what you describe. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 9068
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 04:51 pm: |
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Fortified,
I've also witness sistas FLEE their men for the church. I've seen them make their views of GOD and Christianity into something few (sane) Black men would hardly want to have a gotdayam thing to do with.
I too have seen families torn asunder via some woman's rabid dedication to her passah. And I also had a relative nearly leave a wonderful husband (a man who even became the father to her daughter after the child's father abandoned them) because she'd bought into to bizarro notions of what 'good Christians' are 'spose to think and do.
Perhaps for many women it's easier to love and embrace some perfected notion of what a man should think and do (via Jesus Christ) than it is to deal, scrape and work things out with a man who down here on earth, imperfect flesh et al.
We're no longer at a place and epoch where the Church will save Black men and women. We must stop all the foolishness and think and lives for what works best for where we are and what must do NOW, on THIS here Earth. |
Fortified
Regular Poster
Username: Fortified
Post Number: 470
Registered: 04-2006
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 08:48 pm: |
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@ Brownbeauty:
Of course not all Christians are like that. It is just refreshing to see a sista take a different path and find out why. It's sort of like meeting a sista who prefers country music over R&B...
@ Abm:
BRILLIANT! I couldn't agree more. This is why I feel that in many churches, God is just NOT there. A lot of these women disregard their current lives for a life they have no evidence of. It's sort of an escapism, a coping mechanism, a crutch, rather than a spiritual relationship with the Infinite Being. |
Toubobie
Regular Poster
Username: Toubobie
Post Number: 256
Registered: 08-2005
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 12:26 am: |
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Fortified... PREACH!
got me doin the holy ghost dance up'in heya. GLORAY! shananatiemichelangeloroadaboataaa... HAL-LE-LU-JA-RAH!
"The vast majority of them are single mothers. How many times have I heard that God will be a "husband to the husbandless and a father to the fatherless?"
"These women subconsciously crave a male presence in the home and since they don't have one, they often turn to churches where the head is God-fearing, authoritative, (typically) male leader--their pastor. These women are taken in...it gives them a sense of belonging and purpose outside of their 9-5's."
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