| Author | Message | ||
     Tonya AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 4985 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: N/A |
A clash of culture or racism? Friday, March 23, 2007 Huntsville Times  The desegregation of public accommodations in Huntsville was thought to have been accomplished 40 years ago. But some black college students believe that Jim Crow has re-entered Huntsville in the form of racial profiling at Sammy T's, a downtown nightclub. Owner Sammy Taylor denied that his club discriminates based on skin color. "We certainly don't racially profile," Taylor said. "You or anyone else can walk in here on a Thursday or Friday night and see there are black people in here." Carolyn Britt, a 22-year-old Oakwood College student, doesn't agree. She believes that she and most of the other blacks who tried to get into the club on March 10 were screened out. In fact, she wrote a letter to the editor that The Times published on Monday detailing this incident and later talked about it on WEUP-AM. Apparently, by Britt's own admission, at least two blacks did get in when she, two girlfriends and three white male companions went to Sammy T's. She said her two friends and the white males were allowed in, but she wasn't because the security officer at the door told that she didn't resemble the photo in her state of Florida-issued ID card. Two blacks in, one black out: Where's the racism? According to Britt it came afterward, as she and her girlfriends - who left the club after seeing her dilemma - were watching other blacks try to go in. "They weren't letting any other black people in," said Britt. "We stayed outside for about another 30 minutes. We noticed that every black person, whether they were with a group of white people or not, was turned away." This is a complaint I've heard from young black folks before about some area nightclubs. Many of them have come to believe that race is being used to screen them out. Of course the real problem might well be culture. Specifically, I'm talking about culture as it's expressed in preferred styles of dress. Taylor said that Sammy T's has a dress code that doesn't allow people in who are wearing sports jerseys, baggy pants, flat-bill baseball caps and shirts that hang six inches below the waist. Folks wearing sunglasses or "grills" - the gold or platinum fronts that some rappers and hip-hop stars wear in their teeth - also aren't allowed in. "We have the right not to let anybody in," Taylor said. The problem, however, is that this particular dress code targets styles popular with those young blacks who are part of the hip-hop culture. Baggy clothes, sports jerseys, flat-bill baseball caps and even "grills" are almost a uniform for many of them. Taylor said that drug dealers, not black people, are his targets. He and his security personnel suspect that some of their previous patrons have used his club for illegal business transactions. So they try to screen out people who they believe might cause problems. Of course, drug dealers have no set dress code as far as I know. I doubt they are the only ones wearing baggy clothes or grills. Another wrinkle with the dress code is that culture frequently crosses racial boundaries. Young whites are just as likely as young blacks to wear baggy clothes, grills, sports jerseys and flat-bill caps. In fact, Britt said she saw a group of white young people dressed with some hip-hop flavor try to enter the club. "Their pants were torn, their pants were baggy," she said. "I was like 'I bet you they all get in'. "And they did." So what do we have at Sammy T's? A well-established right to regulate atmosphere via a dress code? A vigilant effort to protect a business? Or racism? Based on the many different conversations I've had over the past few days, I don't claim to know. One thing, however, is very clear: Present problems are often judged by past mistakes. Suspicions linger. The need for dialogue and understanding across cultural and racial lines is as great as it's ever been. David Person's e-mail: david.person@htimes.com; voice mail: 532-4362 © 2007 The Huntsville Times © 2007 al.com All Rights Reserved. http://www.al.com/opinion/huntsvilletimes/dperson.ssf?/base/opinion/1174641388173330.xml&coll=1 | ||
| Yukio AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 2063 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
This is actually typical, Tonya. This anti-intellectualism, that is, Person's inability to relate 'culture' with racism, although the kids could. If it was purely cultural, the white kids would have been rejected, as well. I have witnessed this too, that is the so-called dress code criteria. I've also seen case where clubs that catered to college students--mostly white--stopped playing hip hop once the semester was over to discourage the black natives of the town from frequenting the club. | ||
| Doberman23 Veteran Poster Username: Doberman23 Post Number: 912 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: |
i hate to say it but the clothes do sometimes make a difference. i have been to many a club in mylife from several different states, predominatly black clubs, predom white clubs, asian invasion, and latino clubs ... and one thing i no for sure is that even though there is always going to be a fight from some drunken fool, the thug life bruthaz always add a little more pop and whistle then everybody else. infact i have been to some clubs where you can tell that some bruthas are looking for a damn fight. in this club in texas called city lights niggaz was shooting up the joint when i was there. needless to say i'd rather go to a phucking country music club then get my head shot off. i have been to jazz clubs, martini bars, blues joints and 30 and up clubs, where it's predominatly black and that sort of shyt doesn't happen. the brothers and sisters in those clubs and bars may have an argument or two every now and then, but i don't see a squad of people beating up on one person, and i also don't see them wearing hip hop gear. i know it's not the clothes, but if you look the part then there's a good chance you might act the part. if i had a club, i'd prolly throw the same sort of requirements ... getting your head shot off is far from having a good night. ... i'd be cautious with arabs too ... getting your whole body blown up isnot a good thing either. | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1895 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: |
I'm happy to say that your experience isn't typical in Atlanta, Doberman, not in black clubs anyways....it happens sometimes in latin clubs, but not often even there. Hope you find some cool places to hang out. If not, stock your own bar and have friends hang out at your place. (Vodka and rum drinks are usually quite easy to mix). And the owner's comments about "drug dealers" is very hilarious. The best drug dealers don't look street at all. Another thing that caught my attention: "Apparently, by Britt's own admission, at least two blacks did get in when she, two girlfriends and three white male companions went to Sammy T's. She said her two friends and the white males were allowed in, but she wasn't".....so even though the other blacks were let in, they weren't with her group of friends. I'm wondering if the doorman was just pissy because she was a black person hanging out with white people, and maybe he was trying to separate them from her or something? ..... "Shirts that hang six inches below the waist"......because nothing points out a drug dealer like a possible bout of modesty. Please. | ||
| Yukio AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 2066 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
The issue is not whether the "bruthas" start trouble or not, it whether or not the club's policy is racist. If there is some a criteria based on dress, then it should apply to everyone, not just black people. Otherwise, be honest, and say I don't want ghetto niggahs in my club, because thats what they want to say anyway...NOT, you must wear dress shoes, a button up, etc.... | ||
| Toubobie Regular Poster Username: Toubobie Post Number: 237 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
can't see past all the holes in Person's non-argument to even form an opinion about this particular case ... but ... yeah, it's supposed to be against the law to discriminate based on race.... yet, all this energy spent on this Sammy T's. Perhaps we need to be more focused on NOT patronizing these establishments if there is even the slightest suspicion of racism. Hit them in their pockets, rally the young white liberals to the cause, to take their business to 'LaQuisha J's' downtown cause she SHOOO NUFF could use the business.... civil rights, jesus christ. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 9014 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
I've never really understood WHY someone would stand in line as some idiot DOORMAN decides whether or not I appear 'cool' enuff to enter a club. So, frankly, it's difficult for me to empathize with someone - regardless of their race/sex - who's troubled by some alleged bias involving such. | ||
| Chrishayden AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Chrishayden Post Number: 3955 Registered: 03-2004 Rating: N/A |
I've never really understood WHY someone would stand in line as some idiot DOORMAN decides whether or not I appear 'cool' enuff to enter a club. So, frankly, it's difficult for me to empathize with someone - regardless of their race/sex - who's troubled by some alleged bias involving such. (Amen my black brother. Stand in line, waiting to get in and pay inflated prices for watered drinks and sit around with a bunch of boors you wouldn't want to spend time with somewhere else. People are cattle. Let's open us up one of these places and make a mint off it before Nelly and Pacman Jones shoot the place up. | ||
| Tonya AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 4989 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: N/A |
So is that the answer? Don't give a shit unless it’s racism that affects us? Come on, y'all better than that.  | ||
| Yukio AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 2073 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: N/A |
i don't think boycotting will do anything b/c they don't need our money anyway, toubobie. thats what the article is saying! but if an institution is being racist, I say call them out! because they are mascarading [sp] behind the dress--but it should apply to blacks and whites. but hey...complacency in this era is the name of the game.... | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 9015 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Tonya, There are legitimate issues for Black foks to be concerned about. And there's bvllshyt we should ignore. I'd rank biases within the criteria for determining who is/isn't allowed into some overrated, overhyped club amongst the LATTER. | ||
| Tonya AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 4994 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: |
Blacks complain of discrimination By Rusty Carter The Virginia Gazette March 24 2007 WILLIAMSBURG -- A West Point woman claims she and a cousin were among dozens of people denied service at the IHOP restaurant on Richmond Road. The reason, they say, is because they are African American. Ive heard about things like this, but I never thought it would happen to me, Kristie Ross said in an interview. It was surreal. Were not letting this go, added her mother, Linda Ross. My daughter and her friend were referred to as you people. You dont treat people this way. IHOP insists the complainants were inadvertently caught up in a swell of rowdies who just showed up late one night. Linda Ross says what happened to her daughter two weeks ago is not an isolated case. Last October, she says, a group of black students from West Point High School went to the same IHOP and were denied service after waiting 1-1/2 hours in the lobby. Meanwhile, she said whites who entered after the group were served. The March incident happened just two weeks after the restaurant and a second local IHOP on Mooretown Road were sold to a North Carolina company. CFRA Inc. took over both restaurants as part of an eight-restaurant deal with Demetrius and Lucky Florakis. CFRA is the third-largest franchisee of IHOPs. Kristie Ross said two policemen were at the restaurant when the snub happened around 2 a.m. Police had been called to the vicinity after a fight at the nearby Library Tavern, according to Maj. Jay Sexton of the Williamsburg Police. The owners closed down, and police got there afterward. IHOP began refusing service after an estimated 75 people showed up, many of them from the Library Tavern. A group of six to eight people arrived about three minutes before the large group, and they were seated, Sexton recalled Friday. When the large group showed up, they stopped allowing people. No one [else] was admitted. Kristie Ross disputed that account. If there had been 60 or 70 people there, we would have left, she said. My cousin and I walked in by ourselves. Ross also said the restaurant had few customers inside. They were all in one area, and they were all Caucasian, she said. Dale Meekins, an African-American man from Williamsburg, was also refused service that night. She (the manager) wouldnt even let me get a to-go order, Meekins wrote in a statement given to Kristie Ross. So I went outside to get one of my friends to order the food for me. That friend was Alaina Northern, who is white. I went to the desk and placed the order, Northern said, also in a written statement. The lady took the money and put in the order. Everything was fine until she found out that the order was for my friend. She then went to the register and refunded the money and told him to leave. IHOP referred questions to the corporate office in Glendale, Calif. Spokesman Patrick Lenow was familiar with the case. He said admittance was only denied to people who were believed to be causing problems at another local business or had previously caused problems at IHOP. We took extra precautions to protect our guests, Lenow said Friday. Were sorry that some guests who werent part of that previous problem were excluded. Sexton said officers indicated some of the patrons were being very rowdy, cussing. Lenow qualified that the rowdy behavior could have taken place previously. Some of the people turned away were allegedly involved in an altercation at IHOP a week earlier, Lenow said. Meekins said he was told hed been banned because of the incident the week before. According to his statement, he wasnt at the restaurant the week before. Kristie Ross, who works at Avid Medical in Toano, says she had never been to the restaurant before. Linda Ross said she called CFRA right afterward to demand an explanation. She was told it would take three business days to get a reply. When she called a second time last week, she got a call the next day. Why didnt he call the first time? Linda Ross asked. The management team has reached out to those who complained, Lenow said. Kristie Ross said she was offered free food, but turned it down, adding Do you think I want to go back there now? IHOP has been criticized several times over the years for its treatment of customers, and not just blacks. * Last week the Kansas City Star reported that a lesbian couple was told to leave an IHOP in Grandview after the women shared a brief kiss. It was a kiss I would share with my uncle, Blair Funk told columnist Mike Hendricks. * Last November, some customers at a Massachusetts IHOP were required to leave their drivers licenses with a manager before being seated after a spate of non-paying customers. * In 1995, an IHOP manager in Austin, Texas, had a man removed from the restaurant after he admitted he was gay to another patron. * In 1991 IHOP Corp. agreed to pay a $185,000 settlement in a year-long discrimination suit in Milwaukee. The case stemmed from complaints that employees refused to admit a group of 15-20 blacks. Like the Rosses, the plaintiffs in the Milwaukee case said white customers were seated while blacks waited. Part of the settlement established a scholarship fund to be administered by the NAACP. A precedent lies in a huge discrimination ruling against Dennys restaurant. In a series of high-profile discrimination cases, one involving six black Secret Service agents, the chain by 1995 had paid $54 million to 295,000 aggrieved customers and their lawyers. As part of the settlement, Dennys promised to treat all customers equally in the future. The Rosses have shared their story with local media to gain more impact. Linda Ross said a Washington television station had contacted the family as well for an interview. Shes also contacted the NAACP. The King William branch has since turned the matter over to the state office, which is looking into the controversy. Ross has also called the Human Rights Council. If youre going to shut it down, she added of the restaurant, shut it down for everybody. Copyright © 2007, Virginia Gazette http://www.vagazette.com/news/va-news2_032407mar24,0,1346035.story?coll=va-news | ||
| Schakspir Veteran Poster Username: Schakspir Post Number: 931 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: |
What the hell--?? The f/ucking IHOP chain has been getting away with this kind of discrimination for over a decade, and nobody had the balls to say ANYTHING? Doesn't anyone in this country have any BALLS at all?? | ||
| Mzuri "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mzuri Post Number: 4158 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
Not everyone frequents the IHOPs, Schak. Black folks know where they are treated like second class citizens and they need to stop giving these places their repeat business and their MONEY  | ||
| Schakspir Veteran Poster Username: Schakspir Post Number: 932 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
I know I don't go, though I've thought about it before reading the above article. I was always curious about those pancakes.... | ||
| Mzuri "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Mzuri Post Number: 4159 Registered: 01-2006 Rating: N/A |
I used to mystery shop where I went to different businesses to inspect the service and cleanliness and report back to the agency (I got paid plus reimbursed for whatever I spent, if I bought any type of product - groceries, merchandise or whatever I got to keep that too). I never did IHOP but I went to Village Inn, Denny's, Chili's, and a few others. The cleanliness in those places is severely lacking especially when you're there to look at specific things. That and some other experiences have put me off to restaurants. I mean, I'll go out to eat if there's a valid reason, but being hungry isn't one of them | ||
| Yukio AALBC .com Platinum Poster Username: Yukio Post Number: 2083 Registered: 01-2004 Rating: |
NAACP v. Waffle House, Inc U.S. District Court Northern District of Georgia No. 1:05-CV-0084-WBH and U.S. District Court Northern District of Alabama No. 5:05-CV-94. The NAACP filed these lawsuits to address public accommodation discrimination against African American restaurant guests in Alabama, Georgia and North Carolina. The allegations made in this lawsuit include servers who announced that they did not have to serve African American customers; unsanitary, fly-infested food served to African American customers; ignoring African Americans while white patrons were seated and provided service; directed racial epithets at African American patrons; and verbal abuse directed at African American patrons. Waffle House operates or franchises approximately 1,400 restaurants in 25 states. More than 20 other federal cases have already been filed against the Norcross, Georgia based chain and its franchises. At this time, the NAACP is discussing settlement with the franchises. | ||
| Schakspir Veteran Poster Username: Schakspir Post Number: 933 Registered: 12-2005 Rating: N/A |
And I thought my first novel "Life of Death" (which is about a black nineteen year old working in a family resturant gone apeshit) was a grotesque exaggeration. What you can do is actually expose these assholes. Go in to these IHOPs and Waffle Houses, etc., with cell-phone cameras(like one guy did at the Laugh Factory)and secretly tape the goings-on as they discriminate against black would-be customers. Then post a whole bunch of these examples on YouTube or some other video host, and keep doing it....Then sit back and watch the shit hit the fan. | ||
| Toubobie Regular Poster Username: Toubobie Post Number: 242 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
yukio, we've stood in the picket line for over 50 years and we are back to square one. NEXT! | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1900 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
Why don't you all just go to the myriad BLACK owned restaurants? | ||
| Renata Veteran Poster Username: Renata Post Number: 1901 Registered: 08-2005 Rating: N/A |
Magic Johnson owns a lot of fast food restaurants at least in Atlanta and parts of Texas (I can't remember if it's Houston, Austin, or Dallas). Most fish restaurants seem to be black owned. With the fast food places, it just varies, but you can always check. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 9020 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Tonya, We've allow clubs mentioned in your "A clash of culture or racism?" article to determine whether or not someone 'looks' like he/she is worthy of admission. Now we can debate what their criteria should be. But if they are allowing SOME Blacks (and other minorities) in, it will be difficult to effectively prosecute/persecute the clubs for racism. But IHOP (Denny's and the like) as mentioned in your "Blacks complain of discrimination" are presumed to be open to whomever enters and are willing to and capable of paying for what they order. Thus, they can and have been effectively charged with racism So I'm not sure that these articles are making the same point that (I presume) you think they are making. | ||
| Tonya "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 5012 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: N/A |
Blacks are still being discriminated against, like nothing changed. That was pretty much my point. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 9038 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Tonya, Babe. We know that. My point is does your first article effectively make that point. I don't think so. | ||
| Tonya "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 5020 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: N/A |
I think it does, sweet thang! | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 9041 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Tonya, "Sweet thang"? You trynah call me a f*g on the sly? | ||
| Tonya "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 5021 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: N/A |
"Babe"? You trynna call me a "chick" cuz that's how you're used to treating babes? I'm not sure because you DO say "babe" ALOT. Anyway, I'd NEVER call you a f*g unless I'm mad at you, you know that. | ||
| Abm "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Abm Post Number: 9042 Registered: 04-2004 Rating: N/A |
Tonya, What is the 'official' way by which one treat a babe or chick? I mean, I call my wife and daughters babe and chicks all the time. And I (mostly) do such with love and a song in my heart and behavior. *shrugs* Btw: I've got your f*g right here, babe. Swangin' and dagglin'. | ||
| Tonya "Cyniquian" Level Poster Username: Tonya Post Number: 5024 Registered: 07-2006 Rating: N/A |
Swing it daddy!, swang it! LOL!! My brothers, cousins, uncles, actual (step) daddy, and several of my boyfriends were/are sexist. I don't mind it TOO much, just don't expect me to move them smelly shoes from the middle of the room or do no dishes ALLLL the time, and we cool! |
