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Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 806
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 09:36 pm: | 
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The emerging conflict over Barack Obama's true racial and social allegiance is just the tip of a really huge iceberg, as in a continental shift. America as a whole is finally being forced to reevaluate who is black and who isn't. Sadly, "black" America just might get left off the (decision making) bus on that one. All things being relative, a fundamental realignment of race in America is approaching like a Tsunami, and those who will be affected the most don't even see it coming.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypodescent
http://newpeople.weblogger.com/gumbo
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/12/3/232S
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-4179942/The-one-drop-rule-the.html
http://blogs.suntimes.com/mitchell/2006/12/us_senator_barak_obama_and_the.html
http://www.afn.org/~dks/race/wright.html
http://mulattonationtimes.tripod.com/articles/OneDrop.htm
http://www.halfblack.com/community/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1
http://www.articlealley.com/article_124918_22.html
http://www.springerlink.com/content/xq0x46n8m22034uw/
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-4179942/The-one-drop-rule-the.html
http://www.webcom.com/~intvoice/editor2.html
http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.11451/pub_detail.asp
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_7_53/ai_72411660
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/feb/03/society_sees_it_obama_black/
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And the list of interpretations both valid and invalid goes on and on.
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Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3669
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 12:00 pm: |
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This is something we don't have to waste time worrying about.
The man will drop out before the primaries. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 811
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 05:04 pm: |
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Chris --
I know that's what you're hoping for. Just don't bet the farm on it. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3687
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 05:15 pm: |
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Why would I hope for it? I just live in America that's all. I know how white folks (and he is going to need white folks to win, every Negro in America can vote for him and he still won't make it) lie about voting for and supporting for somebody and how they change their mind when they go in the booth.
Item--in almost every race like this there is at least a ten percent difference in the number of white people who actually vote for a black candidate than those who say they will in the polls.
And where is he now--third behind Edwards? |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1837
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 06:00 pm: |
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"I just live in America that's all."
You just live here? Uh huh......I see. Is there anything else you would like to say about just "living" here? Things ya like or would like to see?
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Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1838
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 06:05 pm: |
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"The emerging conflict over Barack Obama's true racial and social allegiance is just the tip of a really huge iceberg, as in a continental shift. America as a whole is finally being forced to reevaluate who is black and who isn't."
What crisis is this? Barack Obama is a black man -not a Mexican, Korean, Russian, Vietnamese, German or a Brazilian. HE'S BLACK! What is there to opine or labor over? And what allegiance is it that you (or others) are concerned with? It appears that his allegiance is to the United States and the people within -not Iraq, North Korea, Canada, Nigeria or Yemen. Why all the confusion?
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Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 812
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 08:53 pm: |
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Ntfs --
"Barack Obama is a black man"
WRONG! He's not black by definition, he's bi-racial. He chooses to identify as black (perhaps because of the ODR and what's expected of him), and that's the premise. By identifying as black, he keeps the radical black "hot head" faction happy. He's only black as defined by the ODR. Until that (fact) is understood, this dialogue will probably be meaningless, or to a lesser degree, irrelevant. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 813
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 08:55 pm: |
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Ntfs --
"What crisis is this?"
I don't think you'd understand, and no - you don't have to follow up with 'try me'. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1843
Registered: 10-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 03:07 am: |
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"WRONG! He's not black by definition, he's bi-racial."
Really? Ok.....question for you Nels. If you (and everyone else) saw Obama speaking at a conference and you knew nothing about him nor had you ever heard of him and someone asked you if any black speakers were present at the engagement -what would say? I think the answer is obvious. End of subject.....
He chooses to identify as black (perhaps because of the........
He chooses to identify as being a black man because he has no other choice!! What else is anyone with a brain and a functioning pair of eyes going to identify him as??? Chinese? No..? White? No again...?? How about Mexican? You can attempt to opine or promote any of the nefarious absurd race baiting nonsense about this man all you want -it changes nothing! NO ONE IS GOING TO CONFUSE HIM WITH BEING ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT HE IS -A BLACK MAN! Now, if you don't like his politics or him as a person, fine. That is your right. But perpetuating this inane trash talking about him not being a black man is the symptomatic of a deep delusionary detachment from reality that seems to only affect a very small number (thank God!) of Negroes.
"Until that (fact) is understood, this dialogue will probably be meaningless, or to a lesser degree, irrelevant."
Ya got that right! Any meaningful dialogue that has roots in reality and common sense will be meaningless until this minor fractional cabal of Negroes come to grips with their debilitating ignorance and caustic racist fantasies.
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Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 150
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 08:23 am: |
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^^^NTFS: I think going down to what Obama 'looks' like is a matter of opinion. I know of someone who mistaked him for a hispanic when they first saw him, in the UK - where we didn't have the ODR- people often mention he is mixed raced but take the lead that he identifies as black.
Growing up at the time he did I can totally understand why he would have leaned towards wanting to be known as black. That is his prerogative. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 438
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 12:13 pm: |
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What about his mama ? He's biracial. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1850
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 03:45 pm: |
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"What about his mama ? He's biracial."
Irrelevant. Once again, if you knew nothing abut him and saw him for the first time, if someone asked you was he white, black, Indian, Asian or Latino, you would say he was "black" -not white, Asian, or Indian. Latino? Possible, because there are black Cubans, Puerto Ricans, etc...but still black! End of subject....
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7414
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 04:02 pm: |
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I agree with you, NTFS. The fact that Obama does not have straight hair or white skin or blue eyes, that his nose is not sharp and that his lips are purple, are all things that would influence my first impression of him as being a black man. And to me, he actually sounds black when he talks. There is a certain black timbre to the tone and inflections of his voice. His voice resonates with a very subtle hipness that he probably isn't even aware of. If I closed my eyes and listened to him without knowing anything about him, I would guess him to be a "brotha". So, I agree that Obama doesn't have a choice but to identify himself as a black man, because he doesn't look white. The ODR that Nels is so preoccupied with may have biologcial implications but the litmus test is which race manifests itself most in appearance and demeanor. Moreover, Obama can lay claim to what regular light-skinned black Americans can't declare: his father is pure black. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 815
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 05:04 pm: |
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Cynique --
"The ODR that Nels is so preoccupied with may have biologcial implications but the litmus test is which race manifests itself most in appearance and demeanor."
That's the point... To the contrary, the ODR has "no" valid or proven biological basis or implication. It was an arbitrary standard that was conjured up to force people to identify with a certain group. Unfortunately, it's got folks like Ntfs up in arms over who "looks" black vs. who "is" black.
The intention of the ODR was to falsely and (punitively) associate "the black look" with blackness, when in fact blackness is much more complex, and in the continental sense of the term - it is wholly and purely a 100% ancestral association with sub-Saharan black Africa.
But as most well know, blacks in America who can't even fake an association with anything other than a predominantly black ancestral lineage seem to be scared to death that they'll get left off the boat when those who can, choose to do so and in some cases, bail completely from the black American identity. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 816
Registered: 07-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 05:09 pm: |
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Ntfs --
"But perpetuating this inane trash talking about him not being a black man is the symptomatic of a deep delusionary detachment from reality that seems to only affect a very small number (thank God!) of Negroes."
There ain't enough NO2 (laughing gas) in the world to keep the masses from chuckling over that one. And...that 'small' number of Negroes you're referring to is a lot bigger than you think. It's just amazing how a glimpse of the future causes the (NO ONE IS GOING TO CONFUSE HIM WITH BEING ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT HE IS -A BLACK MAN!) crowd to go ballistic. And so it goes. |
Jackie
Regular Poster
Username: Jackie
Post Number: 446
Registered: 04-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 06:25 pm: |
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What about his mama ? He's biracial. |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7421
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 08:01 pm: |
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Being bi-racial doesn't negate one's blackness. And the fact remains that Obama does not have the option of passing for white. |
Brownbeauty123
Veteran Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 1805
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 08:13 pm: |
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Why can't a person look mixed? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7423
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 08:19 pm: |
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Well, I guess it depends on whether every light-skinned black person in America is regarded as looking mixed. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1878
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 08:46 pm: |
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I have a question. What if Baraka was what some Africans call, a real "African American," that is, born of African parents in the U.S.
Would we still have this debate?
Also, would a "black" person the child of a native American and an African American and reared within a native american and african american communityw/no immediately identifiable "native american" features be more acceptable than Obama?
Again, would we still have this debate?
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7425
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 10:36 pm: |
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There would be no reason to have the debate because the African you described would not be bi-racial and wouldn't look mixed. A person identified as half black and half Indian would undoubtedly be more acceptable to native Americans than a half-white half-black candidate. Who knows whether we would be having this debate. Do you have the answer? |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1880
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 10:49 pm: |
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but the question of the thread is....who is or is not black, right?
are people questioning his politics, his record, his culture, or his 'race'? In other words, have some voters conflated 'blackness' w/coming from the South or being steeped in civil rights or church leadership?
how is he different from the Bobby Scott of Virginia or that 'brutha' from Tennessee, Harold Ford [damn have u seen a picture of his pops?]? Dem cats look biracial or something but they aint, according to some of you here, BLACK, are they?! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7428
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 11:16 pm: |
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Ask Nels, this is his balliwick. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 817
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 02:25 am: |
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Cyn --
"Ask Nels, this is his balliwick."
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7471
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 12:43 pm: |
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As usual, spelling was a problem for me; that should've been "bailiwick." But apparently you knew what I meant. |
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