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Lil_ze
Veteran Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 750
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 08:39 pm: | 
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in the "sports illustrated-vouge cover" thread serenasailor said "i don't like ethiopians because of their non-african features".
my question is what are "african features"?
because ethiopians ARE africans. ethiopians ARE black.
so i don't understand how someone has this idea that all natives of the land called africa must (or should)look a "certain way", in order to qualify as having "african features" or really "being black".
the "bushmen" who dwell in places like namibia have eye folds that are similar to asians.
do the "bushmen" have "non african features"?
or do the various racial groups that dwell on the african continent have different physical traits?
i feel the latter is true.
what about the aboriginies of australia who have dark skin and blonde hair?
its clear that the ethiopians DO have african features because the ethiopians are no less "african" that ANY of the other natives of the continent of africa.
hey, serenasailor newsflash-
someone does not have to be black as a car tire and have a super flat nose in order to be an "african" or have "african features".
i suppose in the world of serenasailor, if you are not super black and butt ugly, you are worthy of castigation, because you don't fit in to some mythical notion of what constitutes being an "african".
very intelligent way of thinking. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 795
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 09:11 pm: |
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Everyone's nose doesn't have to be the size of an aircraft carrier, and their lips don't have to be the size of a Jumparoo. Serenasailor should either get a life or get a phenotype makeover. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1842
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 09:35 pm: |
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lil-ze: being 'african' is not a question of region, but culture. And considering that Ethiopia has had a long history of imperialism, collaboration with the west and the middle east, many ethiopians embrace a kind of non-african identity....and their culture and history of miscegnation with "others" has contributed to them looking quite different from Africans's whose borders are indeed contiguous with ethiopia....it is like askin a nuyorican if they are puerto rican, the answer would be complicated... |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7335
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 09:55 pm: |
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Emperor Hallie Selassie of Ethiopia, known as the lamb of Judah and who was supposedly a direct descendent of King Solomon was a light-skinned, keen-featured little man. About 50 years ago, scientists classifed Ethiopians as hybrid Caucasians. But when this subject came up on the board previously, some posters said that Ethiopians come in all skin tones from light to dark, but their facial features are more keen than broad. |
Lil_ze
Veteran Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 751
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 10:16 pm: |
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prince ras-tafari (emperor hallie selassie) was known as the LION of judah.
the notion of ethiopians having a "history of miscegination" that has somehow contributing to them looking differnent than the other natives of africa, i feel is a bit untrue.
its clear the the ethiopians, somalians, ertitrean's, and the people of djbouti have distinct racial characteristics.
i don't think these characteristics are due to "race mixing" of anything else.
the people who dwell in those areas look the way they do, because thats how they look.
the reason the "bushmen" of namibia look TOTALLY different from the other people on the african continent, is NOT due to "miscegination".
the bushmen look the way they do, because this is how they look as a people.
the same is true of the peoples of ethiopia, somalia, eritrea, and djbouti.
these people have "keen" features, not because of "race mixing", but because these are the traits they carry as a nation (racial group). |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7337
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 10:25 pm: |
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This may well be true, but the Ethiopians like the idea of being thought of as something other than negroid, and some of them who you run into in this country will let you know that they are not "black" Africans. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 3516
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 10:42 pm: |
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A co-worker who studied anthropology told me that the Ethiopians were classified as Caucasian. And that's because race is supposedly based upon hair texture, not skin color. |
Lil_ze
Veteran Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 754
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 10:44 pm: |
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well mzuri, what you say about ethiopians not thinking of themselves as "black africans" is true.
but to me thats the same as a dominican (the color of michael jordan) who doesn't think he's "black".
that goes more into culture and mindstate.
but what im talking about is the undeniable fact that there are different "racial groups" on the continent of africa, who all have "dark skin", but clearly different physical features.
but for someone to claim that one racial group on the continent of africa, "doesn't have african features", just because they don't look a certain way, is foolish to me.
all of the racial groups on the continent of africa, are africans (with the exception of some of the arabs that dwell there).
now group has the advantage of being a "true african", because they are ALL africans.
these groups look different ways. |
Ntfs_encryption
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Ntfs_encryption
Post Number: 1823
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 03:30 am: |
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"A co-worker who studied anthropology told me that the Ethiopians were classified as Caucasian. And that's because race is supposedly based upon hair texture, not skin color."
That's bullshit! There is a large community of Ethiopians, Somalians and Ertitrean's (and varied other Africans) here in San Diego. The Northern Africans are distinctive from the Subsaharan Africans in certain physical aspects but they are still Africans and they are still black. Their skin color and hair texture varies somewhat but the same could be said for American blacks. They consider themselves black and African (why not? -they can't pass for anything else). I see them every single day and I interact with them all the time. I can't believe someone who has allegedly studied Anthropology would make such an ignorant comment. THERE IS NOTHING EVEN REMOTELY CAUCASIAN ABOUT THEM....PERIOD!!
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Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1844
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 04:55 am: |
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Ntfs: ethiopians, somalians, and ertriean's are e.african not north african. also, these three countries are quite different, so there isn't a ready made way to determine how they see themselves. Of course they're african, but that because they are on the continent of africa. But regarding their color or what some would call "race" that is open to the religion, region, etc...from which these people come from. In other words, you will get different answers from people who come from the same country! LOL! Why, because they have different beliefs and they all don't necessarily embrace a ready made national identity...what you should do is ask them if their experience in the U.S. has impacted how they see themselves...
You can't ask foreigners questions presume that you understand what they mean just because they use the same words...LOL! |
Latina_wi
Regular Poster
Username: Latina_wi
Post Number: 121
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 08:46 am: |
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Most east africans I have met defintely consider themselves africans. I read a young woman's account of Italian colonialism in Somalia and she referred to 'her people' as black somalis. She did mention the difference between other africans, but that isn't odd - many africans do that. |
Dahomeyahosi
Regular Poster
Username: Dahomeyahosi
Post Number: 197
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 10:31 am: |
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On Somailian ancestry from http://www.somalishir.org/genealogy/index.htm :
There are currently several quite different views concerning the history of the Somali People. Some claim that this history extends back several thousands of years. Others claim that the Somali Ethnic Group was founded about 800 years ago by a small number of Arabic settlers on the coast of Somalia who married primarily Oramo ("Galla") women. A comprehensive study of the Somali genealogy offers the opportunity to provide more definitive answers to many of these open questions. (The late Gen. Mohammed Farah Hassan ('Aidid') discusses some of these competing theories in Chapter 2, "Origin of the Somali People (50,000 -- 30,000 B.C.), and in Chapter 3, "The Ancestors of the Somalis", in his book, "Somalia: From the Dawn of Civilization to The Modern Times. Appendix 4: "The Somali Ethnic Group and Clan System" in "Reunification of the Somali People", by Jack L. Davies gives another summary.)
First, the genealogical charts seem to go back about 25 - 30 generations to about one dozen "founding fathers", which is within the time frame of 625 - 900 years, if we assume an average from one generation to the next of about 25 - 30 years. If the Somali Civic Organization defines a project of collecting and consolidating all available genealogical information and it does imply a maximum lineage of about 30 generations, this would provide powerful support for the latter hypothesis above.
Although this study is written as hypothetical it reflects common Somali views. If the founding fathers of Somalia are Arabs it makes little sense to call them black. Many Somalis consider themselves non-black, although African. And for very good reason.
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Dahomeyahosi
Regular Poster
Username: Dahomeyahosi
Post Number: 198
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 10:37 am: |
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Here is a lively discussion on the racial origins of Somalis, clearly something they themselves disagree about. The answer is simple in view of an American ODR but complex in view of the measures that most of the world uses.
http://www.somaliuk.com/Forums/index.php?topic=1775.24
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Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1845
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 11:05 am: |
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Dahomeyahosi: Interesting, just what I thought. Many 'black' Americans, as you call us, can't seem to different 'black' from African, etc...., and interpret what we hear or read through our own cultural lens...people of African descent will never get to know Africa it we keep doing this. And vice versa, of course! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7345
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 01:17 pm: |
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Blond, fair-skinned, blue-eyed, award-winning movie actress Charlize Theron is an African, having been born in South Africa. So we do, indeed, have to make a distinction between being African and being black. |
Misty
Veteran Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 723
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 01:29 pm: |
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A co-worker who studied anthropology told me that the Ethiopians were classified as Caucasian. And that's because race is supposedly based upon hair texture, not skin color.
was he white? i ask because ive heard whites try to claim something similar to that....the only reason whites are trying to claim them is because ethiopians can lay claim to being the cradle of egyptian civbilization. ntfs is right...what that guy told you is pure bullshit...again...a typical example of whites trying to take credit for everything thats great by any means nessesary. |
Misty
Veteran Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 724
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 01:34 pm: |
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something ive wondered for a while is have arabs always been indigenous to africa?
if they are then that brings about more questions on race classification and what we label black. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 3524
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 01:46 pm: |
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No, Misty - My co-worker was a Black man. As to NTFS's assertion that my post is "bullshit," that's his prerogative but it's nothing new that Ethiopians were classified as caucasian - corroboration is all over the internet. So y'all can believe whatever you want. I gives a shit.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7349
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 01:49 pm: |
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Whether we like it or not, Misty, Ethiopipans are in a class by themselves and are considered to be at least as much caucasian as anything else. Like everybody has previously reminded: just because people are from the African contintent doesn't mean they are negroid. |
Brownbeauty123
Veteran Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 1766
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 02:02 pm: |
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So Iman is Caucasion? |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7350
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 02:45 pm: |
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Iman is a Somalian and they have their own classification, too, which is similar to that of Ethiopians. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4518
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 02:51 pm: |
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Re: Iman
That would be ODR in reverse, and, I don't care where you are on the globe, ODR is heading for extinction.
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Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7351
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 03:04 pm: |
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There seems to be confusion about what caucasian is. What follows is a dictionary definition. Caucasian: constituting, or characteristic of a race of humankind native to Europe, North Africa, and southwest Asia and classified according to physical features -- used especially in referring to persons of European descent having usually light skin pigmentation |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 7354
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 03:18 pm: |
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And I should backtrack on Charlize Theron. She is from the population of white Europeans who colonized South Africa but who are not indigeneous natives of this land. |
Lil_ze
Veteran Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 757
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 03:56 pm: |
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i have also had professors tell me the ethiopians are classified as "caucasians".
the idea of a person (or nation) being classified as "caucasian", is NOT based on their skin color, but on their PHYSICAL features.
the ethiopian, (or some of them) having high cheek bones and noses similar to "the caucasian type" (a skull was found near the mountains of georgia russia, this skull was said to possess "caucasian features"), is said by some to be "caucasian" because many ethiopians possess these traits.
a person could be "classed" as a caucasian (by some), no matter what there skin color is.
the ethiopians ARE indegeneous natives of the land mass called africa. |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 1286
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 05:32 pm: |
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Lil_ze you are the biggest idiotic, colorstruck, loser in the world. First of all I never said that I didn't like Ethiopians because of there non-African features. What I said was that YOU guys only like Ethiopians because of their non-African features.
And yes it is true that Ethnic Ethiopians do not consider themselves BLACK because of their history of miscegenation with other races. Most Ethiopians are dark, African featured ppl. However, ethnic Ethiopians are mixed. They also don't like Black Americans because 1. We are the descendants of slaves(Ethiopia was the only country in Africa that fought slavery and colonialism)2. We are descendants of West Africans. 3. We do not look like them.
Now I will admit Ethiopians are Africans YES!! But so is Sir Ian McClellon, Charlize Theron, and Thandie Newton, BUT they are not Black. Algerian, Morroccans, and Tunisians are Africans but they are not BLACK!!
So get your facts straight you colorstruck, white worshipping, self-hating MORON!!! |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1847
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 05:33 pm: |
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Arabs are not indigenous to africa! Remember, the middle east is just west of east africa, so that trade, imperialism, etc...along the e. coast of africa has been frequent throughout world history. And with any kind of imperialism, groups often assimilate, and in the case of ethiopia, as well as egypt, the arabic presence has been so strong that they are fundementally different from 'black' Africans.
Finally, the notion of being 'caucasian' doesn't mean the something in Africa, Latina America, and throughout the world in general as it means here. So that a 'caucasian' in Ethiopia would not be considered physiologically'caucasian' here, although when they fill out information identifying themselves some may indeed place an 'X' or check Caucasian. |
Serenasailor
Veteran Poster
Username: Serenasailor
Post Number: 1289
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 05:52 pm: |
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Thats what I saying Yukio. Arabs, and Europeans are not indegineous to Africa. The same way that Ethnic Ethiopians are not either. BUT they are Africans because they share they live in the land mass known as Africa.
However, they are not BLACK!!! |
Dahomeyahosi
Regular Poster
Username: Dahomeyahosi
Post Number: 199
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 10:54 pm: |
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Yukio you are right...most Americans make no distinction between "black" and "African." But to be fair some Africans think all Americans are white! |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1848
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 11:50 pm: |
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Dahomeyahosi: almost ten years ago, I almost had an alteraction w/a kenya when said that I wasn't black. My ghanian friend had to explain it to me, because the Kenyan was about to take a bad one...LOL! I was very romantic and unsophisticated, as this same Kenyan still is, in fact. At any rate, I have had quite heated intellectual exchanges w/Africans throughout the continent, in fact, usually this conversations include some rum and smoke...[I only drink]...LOL! |
Lil_ze
Veteran Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 761
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 02:59 pm: |
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ethnic ethiopians ARE indigenous to africa.
"ethnic ethiopians are mixed"- words of serenasailor.
serenasailor do you have ANY proof to support saying that the ethnic ethiopians (whatever "ethnic" means in this context) are "mixed".
just because ethipians don't have big lips or wide flat noses, doesn't mean they are mixed.
it just means that these are the physical features they possess.
someone does not have to be UGLY and SUPER DARK to be native african.
and the ethiopians ARE native africans.
whether or not the ethipians "like" black americans is of no issue.
hey newsflash serenasailor, the nigerians don't like black americans either.
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Lil_ze
Veteran Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 762
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 03:06 pm: |
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and i stand corrected you didn't say "i don't like ethiopians because of their non-black features".
but serenasailor you DID say "i don't like ethnic ethiopians".
and you called ethiopians as*holes.
why are ethiopians as*holes?
because they are not UGLY? |
Dahomeyahosi
Regular Poster
Username: Dahomeyahosi
Post Number: 200
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 09:56 pm: |
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Serenasailor you're right. There is a large Afro-Asiatic population extending throughout the horn of Africa including Djibouti, Eritrea, Ethiopia, and Somalia.
Some people erroneously promote "diversity" amongst Africans in order to make room for people who look like them under the umbrella of "black African". However the diversity found amongst descendents of slaves and the diversity found amongst those of northern and Eastern Africa have the same source -miscegenation (sp). I'm not sure why these people can not face the facts that they possess non-black blood and move on. |
Lil_ze
Veteran Poster
Username: Lil_ze
Post Number: 773
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 10:34 pm: |
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please someone (one of you who are SO convivced that the ethiopians possess "non black" blood) explain to me how the "bushmen" of namibia, can look TOTALLY different than all of the other people on the african continent, and have "eye folds" like asians?
im not sure why these people (who think ethipians are somehow "mixed) cannot just accept the fact that there are different racial groups, that look different on the african continent.
these groups looking different has ZERO to do with "non black" blood or race mixing. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1854
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 10:39 pm: |
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Lil_ze: it is true that there is diversity in features among "black" Africans, but there is a clear and long history of trade and imperialism in the case of ethiopians and arabs. how difficult is it to understand this? |
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 794
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 12:23 am: |
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my ex would say she was black in a heartbeat, even though she said when she was growing up other kids used to make jokes all the time about hungry ethiopeans to her and her brother. i would have never even known she was african if it wasn't for her last name being so different, but then again i also didn't care. i am assuming that this is the reason why indians (native americans) got phucked over in the long run, wondering who was chrokee and who was mohawk and all that other trivial bullshit when people on the outside looking in just called them all indians, red men, savages, or whatever. it must be nice to be able judge a whole nation of people that even though they are located in an african continent and are just as black as all of us that they aren't african. hmmmm, maybe thats the reason why the "real" africans are so sucessful and don't ever want to leave and come here. |
Nels
Veteran Poster
Username: Nels
Post Number: 804
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 01:51 am: |
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One might even surmise that in their quest to be "non/less-Black", the Ethopians (and the Somalis, for that matter) are simply full of sh*t". As my late brother used to say, those "wiffle headed" bastards can't even see home plate, even when the catcher's out to lunch. In the end, the "black" look supercedes all, and that continues to be the crux of the matter. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1857
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 09:37 am: |
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doberman23: who are the real africans? |
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