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Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1560
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 12:25 pm: | 
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Background: On another thread I mentioned my great pleasure and surprise at how fully my young daughters (6 yo) have taken to learning about slavery. We have had books that have talked about slavery and have read them in the past. But they have not been as excited about those books as they are about Addy.
It could be just age: They are older now, so maybe before they were just too young to understand. But I think it is partly do to how the Addy character is marketed. Is it part of American Girl's huge historical character line. There are dolls (large, and smaller sized), clothers, furniture, accessories, and a whole line of chapter and other books. The two books we have are the first intoductory chapter book ("Meet Addy") and a WONDERFUL non-fiction book that talks about what life would have been like for a girl like Addy during slavery.
Having a specific character and creating a whole world around her (+, of course, many, many items to buy and collect) I think makes a huge difference. So, too, does the way the Addy book is written. Addy is truly a heroic figure, written with great depth and sensitivity. And the book shows true love of Black family members towards each other: Addy, her mother and father, her older brother, her baby sister.
Most surprising--it presents slavery in a way that I did not expect. It is specific, rather raw, unflinching. In some books, especially for children, slavery seems to me to be presented in a way that "tones down" the realities of it.
Anyway, I'll say more later. But I thought I'd open up the conversation with this example. I am interested in others' experiences with this book/character, but also other aspects of teaching children about slavery.
For example:
Are there similar heroic characters that have been created targeting young Black males?
How have other folks' kids reacted to hearing about slavery?
How has it been for you, the adult, in talking about slavery to young children?
How do older children (e.g., teens) react to information about slavery?
When, and under what circumstances did you learn about slavery? |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2962
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 12:32 pm: |
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Well, I'm a grandmother now and to be honest, I don't see what positive outcome it would have upon my little darlings for them to know (at a young age) that their ancestors were enslaved due to their origin/skin color. Perhaps when they get older, but not as young children. At this point, it would only instill in them that they are second class citizens and inferior to white people. If I had any control over the information that they receive, they wouldn't know about any of this until they are in their late teens.
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Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1561
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 02:23 pm: |
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Mzuri, the only problem with that is that if they do hear about slavery from someone else, they will not have the background to know what it is all about. For example, I remember a teacher in an early grade telling the class about slavery, but then saying something like "But actually, the slaves were really more like part of the family." I prefer to not have my children's first exposure to the topic be from someone else--let alone have them hear misinformation that they have no background knowledge to combat. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1562
Registered: 01-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 02:26 pm: |
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The other thing is that--at least in the Addy books--slavery is presented as something that Addy and her family members fight back heroically. They are not passive second class citizens, but full of dignity and pride. The major part of this first book is Addy and her mother's daring escape. I like that about the book. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2964
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 02:39 pm: |
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I have an aversion to the entire topic of slavery. I don't even want to think about it. I have an ancient photo of my greatgrandmother standing in a cotton field and I don't know if she was a slave or not. I don't want to know.
I'm not familiar with Addy at all. But if they are presenting the condition of slavery in a positive way and that the slaves were empowered, then that's good.
If the topic is going to be presented to children in schools, then I would prefer it if slavery were covered in its entirety. That children are taught that there were other civilizations that employed slavery (such as the Romans and the Greeks) and that slavery exists even in the present day. It shouldn't be presented that slavery only ever happened to the Africans.
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Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1552
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 03:03 pm: |
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this is a difficult issue, obviously...but there is a reason for being second class and it had nothing to do with being inferior---this is the message that black need to get....and so, i ask can a children's book convey this? |
Enchanted
Veteran Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 632
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 03:34 pm: |
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Psychologists says that children shouldknow about these things as young as possible and as truthfully as possible Its actually does a lot more damage if they learn too late in life because more self-hatred is possible at a later age and there is a way to tell children the truth (such as "your father left me" or "your mom in prison") without it causing self hatred. Children are very intelligent and they can understand if a smart sensitive person is explaining it in detail and willing to answer children's questions honestly. People who say "I dont even want to think about it" are likely to live in denial and harbor self hatred issues themselves to be frank |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2967
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 03:42 pm: |
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Well UnEnchanted - The good news is that I can think or not think about whatever I want. And you're about the last person who should concern themselves about whether others hate themselves. You think you're too dark, you don't like your own offsprings, you're on your fourth husband and whatever else your issues are. You are in no position to analyze anything. Go worry about your own self  |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7814
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 03:49 pm: |
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Yvettep,
I think the biggest problem with teaching our children about slavery is so many of us ADULTS do not want really think about, much less discuss with our children, the hell our ancestors endured.
So we avoid the issue of slavery. Blame our schools for not teaching us about it. Reflexively rebut the credibility of scholarship on the subject.
And make spurious arguments about what our children should and shouldn't know about THEIR history and legacy. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1557
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 04:08 pm: |
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abm:
right. most of us know very little about slavery; and we are very ashamed of it, as if it was something we have done to ourselves...even in the foolish jargon we use, such as "you and that slave mentality...." do more harm than good. |
Moonsigns
Veteran Poster
Username: Moonsigns
Post Number: 1714
Registered: 07-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 04:47 pm: |
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Yvettep,
My two older girls really enjoy reading and have read many of the books from the American Girls series.
As a parent, I think teaching children about slavery is vital, because parents are the best people to address any questions children many have regarding this part of history. And parents also have the ability to instill pride in children --to set an example of respect for those who suffered and died for their freedom(s).
btw, Yvettep, have your daughters ever read the Dear America series? My oldest daughter liked their books more than American Girls. The two books she owns regarding slavery from the Dear America series are "A Picture of Freedom: The Diary of Clotee, a Slave Girl" and "Color Me Dark: The Diary of Nellie Lee Love, The Great Migration North".
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Brownbeauty123
Veteran Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 1507
Registered: 03-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 06:29 pm: |
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Don't schools start teaching children about slavery in elementary? I remember learning about it in the 4th or 5th grade. |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1568
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 01:02 pm: |
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Moonsigns: No I had not heard of that series! Thanks--I will definitely check it out.
the biggest problem with teaching our children about slavery is so many of us ADULTS do not want really think about, much less discuss with our children, the hell our ancestors endured
That is key, I think, ABM. Ditto, the seeming sense of shame and self-blame, Yukio. I admit that it is not easy for me and I still have lots of my own "issues" about this topic--issues that I do not want to pass on to my children.
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Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1569
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 01:15 pm: |
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BTW, below is a real example of the kind of "white washing" I was talking about. In this case, it is a little Scholastic reader about Martin Luther King Jr. They are given out at school to all children in the classes with the idea that the kids will take these things home to keep and share with parents.
Anyway, here are some excerpts:
"When Martin was a boy, there were unfair laws. The laws kept black people and white people apart..."
"Martin wanted his children to be treated fairly. But there were still bad laws that kept people apart..."
"Today, people of all colors can be together..."
Am I being overly sensitive? I find this language extremely objectionable. To me:
1) It makes it seem as if Jim Crow was equally disenfranchising of Blacks and Whites. That was, of course, not the case.
2) The main point was not to "keep people apart." WHat in the world? The point was to keep us in our "place" as subhuman, second class quasi-citizens! If they had used the South African "apart hate" I might have less of a problem, but still.
3) And what is with this whole "there were bad laws"? Where did these laws come from? They just existed all on there own? Weren't there plenty of people who thought they were "good laws"--which is why they were enacted in the first place?
Now, I understand what is likely behind this language: Not wanting to present too many nettlesome issues to children so young, trying to explain things at a developmentally appropriate level, not wanting Black children to feel bad or angry, not wanting White children to feel guilty, etc.
But this seems like just plain poor pedagogy and misrepresentation! Now I have to go through this page by page and give my daughters greater context--while still being developmentally appropriate, insuring that they fully understand that no White person alive today that they interact with (e.g., their teachers and friends) was involved in embracing the Bad Laws, etc etc.
But of course, I as a parent should be responsible for this so I just need to get to opening up the discussion! |
Kola_boof
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3993
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 01:34 pm: |
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Anyway, here are some excerpts:
"When Martin was a boy, there were unfair laws. The laws kept black people and white people apart..."
"Martin wanted his children to be treated fairly. But there were still bad laws that kept people apart..."
"Today, people of all colors can be together..."
Am I being overly sensitive? I find this language extremely objectionable. To me.
KOLA:
Yvette it's horrible the way that b.s. is written, but the vast majority of blacks would never question it, and I got nauseated and depressed just reading it to be frank.
What a tragedy.
BTW--I teach my own children EVERY SHRED of everything I know about life period, and when it comes their blackness and the history of people from Africa--I started from birth.
It's not really that bad.
And may I suggest that you not only teach your children about American slavery---but empower them even more by teaching them the history of Africa (slavery and the Kingdoms both). It really does HINDER Black American children to not know explicitly the nature and root of these oppressions as well as the fact that "color" more than "race" has always been the first cell.
Enchanted is right about children being able to understand the most complex and unsavory of issues---provided the person telling/teaching it has formulated a well thought out of way of delivering the information and is prepared for the resultant questions.
That includes, at some point, answering your children's questions with the simple honesty of...."I don't know"..."I'm not sure, let me find out"..."I have trouble discussing this, because it hurts me so much". Parents have to talk very earnestly and sensitively to children, and they will be able to grasp and form opinions about these issues.
If the African saying "through our children we live forever" is true--then it's also true FOR WOMEN that it's through our children that we make the world a better place.
Children are the ones who change the things that hurt their parents. Change comes from mothers complaining to their children about the world---every movement, whether it be feminist, racial or whatever---is the product of one set of mothers vs. another set of mothers both united in wanting to right a wrong and not always knowing just HOW to do so---but progress comes from mothers telling their children what is right and wrong.
A child's first and most important teacher is it's mother. If you hate your hair--your child will hate YOUR hair. We really can't hide the truth from our children, even when we think we can.
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Kola_boof
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 3994
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 01:39 pm: |
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Yvette I had an "ADDIE" doll that I ordered after watching the OPRAH show.
I've never gotten the books, but I will recommend them for some other people. |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 296
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 09:25 pm: |
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I haven't heard about Addy. The books sound fascinating. But I notice that Yvettep, Moonsigns, and Abm all have daughters. I think my 6 and 9 year-old SONS will enjoy these books. Are they appropriate for little boys, or were they written specifically to empower little girls? |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1571
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 06:31 pm: |
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Urban_scribe: These books are definitely targeted to girls.
I am interested in finding out if there are similar character lines targeted to boys. I think LiLi may know something about this--I hope she comes back to talk about it.
Chris and ABM: Do you know of any characters in comics that take place during this time period? My husband has the Black Captain America series, but of course that was a later time period. (WW2?) |
Yvettep
Veteran Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 1572
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 06:34 pm: |
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U-S: I meant to mention that your sons still may enjoy thee books, especially your younger one. So far we have just read the first book. It is full of adventure so if the others are like it I could see that some boys might still like them. |
Urban_scribe
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Urban_scribe
Post Number: 299
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 - 11:18 pm: |
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Thanks, Yvette
I'll pick up the first book for him then. If he likes it, I'll buy the others. |
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