| Author |
Message |
    
Misty
Veteran Poster
Username: Misty
Post Number: 621
Registered: 02-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 09:23 am: | 
|
I was just wondering what you all think in this case....do blacks have just as much power to hold eachother back as whites have to hold blacks back? if you think so why and if you dont think so, then why
this is something me and tonya were discussing in the freed slaveowners thread and i was wondering what most people here think .... |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1550
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 10:19 am: |
|
yes, we do. if you believe in the behavioralist school that claims that poor behavior--criminality, promiscuity, etc--learned from parents is what holds black folk back in the first place.
no, if you, as I do while still giving consideration to the behavioralist position, believe what holds people, in this case black people, back are institution at a structural level. This is different from talking about interpersonal relations or black consumer power...I am talking about the power to harness resources in a structural way:
a)that is resources in the form of a police force in the case of the brother in nyc [queens]
b)or the power to NOT share resources, as in the case of generations of power black and latino communities. Part of this structural power is to use people of the same group to condemn it; to produce television programs to dispersed racist, often, criminal images of people, and politicians of color who are re-elected by whites and a black middle-class that represents the larger white power structure rather than the power commmunity of which it often claims it is a part.
Jus my 2 cents! |
Brownbeauty123
Veteran Poster
Username: Brownbeauty123
Post Number: 1506
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 10:30 am: |
|
Good topic Misty. I'd like to read what others think on this. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3377
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 10:37 am: |
|
No.
Especially if you come out anti black like Ward Connerly and these people. You can say what you want bad about black people and you pay no price whatsoever--in fact you prosper.
Look at Clarence Thomas, Alphonso Jackson, (what is that guy Troy digs so much, can't recall that guy's name?)
How many blacks can deny you a job, redline your community, shoot you down in the street without getting punished, send your kids to Iraq, etc?
If they do they are working for white people.
But this is a good subject.
When do we come up with this "The brothers and sisters holding me back" stuff?
Sometimes it is when we have come up with a scheme or a business or something and the black folks don't support or patronize us.
The dope dealers don't seem to be having no problem, neither do the churches or the owners of rib joints etc.
Come up with a product that they'll buy.
Most often it comes up with blacks making disparaging comments. Negroes are too sensitive. Negroes talking can't do nothing.
MOST often it comes up in the imaginations of Negroes who think that if "these negroes weren't clowning, having OOW babies, having funny names I would be able to get farther with white people"
First of all, what you got must not be that much if somebody is willing to deny you on the basis of someone else you don't even know. Second of all such a person is a fair weather friend and don't mean you no good in the first place.
Y'all need to man up. They had the sweetest most complacent negroes in the world for years and all they did was kick them in the butt. They don't respect lickspittles toms and sellouts.
The Jews ain't let the fact that they are hated and despised by the Christians stop them. Everytime I look up an Italian is being depicted as a mafia man, that don't stop them.
Get off these computers and get out in the real world and toughen up. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2945
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:03 am: |
|
It has been my experience that Blacks do NOT support other Blacks, particularly in business. And this is a very sad and disturbing situation.
But I am a firm believer that our only limitations are those which we put upon ourselves. So even though we continue to experience racism and oppression from the white man, and lack the financial support of our brothers, we can no longer blame others for our failures.
With the advent of the internet (which is the great equalizer), Black people should no longer use the excuse that anyone else is keeping us down. If we can't make it in the real world due to adverse conditions, we can always try to make something happen online.
This past Christmas season consumers spent over $23B online. The opportunities for financial rewards are very very real!
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8MAINN00.htm
I don't believe that anyone has the power to hold someone else back anymore.
|
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3386
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:14 am: |
|
It has been my experience that Blacks do NOT support other Blacks, particularly in business.
Funny. The dopedealers ain't complaining. I got a friend who owns a liquor store and he is taking in money hand over fist every time I go in there. There is an acquaintance who sells clothes on the street at a corner stand and I personally have seen him take in a couple grand in a day.
I admit black people are hard customers and are not about to kiss your ass.
But if you got what they want they will give you the dough.
Mzuri:
Maybe you should be "nicer" to your male customers. You know what I mean. A little makeup. Some perfume. A little flirting. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2948
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:20 am: |
|
Chris - If you will read and comprehend what I wrote - I said that "IT HAS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE"
Since you and I are completely different individuals, we do NOT share the same experiences.
And fortunately for me, I don't hang in the streets with drug dealers and pimps, and I don't frequent liquor stores.
I was referring to the Black-owned businesses that I have been involved in. Legitimate businesses.
But thanks for your input anyway.
|
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3389
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:29 am: |
|
Mzuri:
The last I heard of a liquor store is a legitimate business. Licensed by the state and airthang.
Even white people have liquor stores and sell the stuff. Why even in my grocery chain I can get liquor.
One problem with you Negroes is sitting up, rocking in your chairs, saying umph umph umph when a black person does something and turning a blind eye to it when white folks do --
Say, that qualifies as a black holding another back, doesn't it?
Plus that I mentioned a dealer in clothes. I could have also mentioned owners of restaurants, cleaners--one of the top real estate agents in the area is a black woman with all black clientele, newspaper owners-
If they like ya they will come.
But if you settin' 'round with a tude and your butt up on your shoulders, well why should they?
Get in the game, girl! |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2954
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:39 am: |
|
Chris - You're starting to bore me. And that is a fate worse than death.
Have a nice day 
|
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 679
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:40 am: |
|
i agree with mzuri, blacks don't support other blacks when it comes to business. chris it's not about wanting other black people to kiss your ass as a customer, but everyone wants to be compensated properly ... i don't waste my time when people start talking that hook-me-up stuff, or being unnecessarily difficult just to try and get something for nothing. as far as chris constantly talking about drug dealers (why even bother).
i think other black people have a hard time being geniunely happy for other black people when they reach a certain level, and on the same note when other black people find themselves in a good situation too many of them are more guarded then inclusive to other black people to help them, in fear of possibly losing their position or status. i've always found it's best to deal with older people no matter what race when it comes gaining some insight on future goals you may trying to achieve, they have always been more willing to share ... at least that's how it's been for me.
and i also think that other black people hold each other down by not trying to be too hard on each other when they are trying something new or different.
i feel, as black people we need to work on a stronger solidarity to be more inclusive instaed of the "every man for himself" attitude. the only time we come together is when something really phucked up happens. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3394
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:48 am: |
|
i agree with mzuri, blacks don't support other blacks when it comes to business
That is just plain BS and there are thousands of black businessmen and women out there who make their living off black people.
You people need to get off these computers and out into the real world. |
Doberman23
Veteran Poster
Username: Doberman23
Post Number: 682
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:56 am: |
|
you need to get off of these nutts! your retarded ass was talking about drug dealers and booze peddlars, and thousands is too low of a number. you need to get out in the real world and that doesn't include stankin ass non power having missouri either ... and start looking at businesses and see what kind they are b4 u run your pie hole. this aint the 60's no more popz. |
Chrishayden
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 3397
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 11:58 am: |
|
You ain't got no nutts, fool. |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2960
Registered: 01-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 12:17 pm: |
|
Chris - I never said that no Black businesses get the support of Black people. I said that it has been MY EXPERIENCE. FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN. And I'm not talking about if I open up a hip-hop club will Black people support it. Of course they will. But they aren't necessarily coming because I'm Black.
I'm talking about Black people supporting Black business because it's a BLACK BUSINESS (all other things being equal such as pricing and quality of service).
Why does everything need to turn into an argument with you lately?
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7807
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 12:31 pm: |
|
If you assume Blacks will not support Black businesses, we're all pretty much fuhked and there's not much reason to go further except to kissa$$ with White (and other non-Black) businesses and bosses.
When Blacks feel they will receive goods and resources from other Blacks whose quantity and quality is commensurate with those of non-Blacks, they can be OVERWHELMINGLY supportive of Black businesses.
Blacks are VERY supportive of CERTAIN Black businesses. Go into your local Beauty or Barber Shop right now and you'll see clear evidence of that.
The problem is Blacks are often more suspicious of Blacks being able to COMPETENTLY provide and perform certain goods/services. And many of those suspicions are well-founded.
There are LOTS of shabby Black merchants, contractor and consultants. Some of them are dishonest people who attempt to use their Blackness to misuse others Blacks. But others are earnest, hardworking foks who simply do not have access to resources, associations and capital that would facilitate their being competitive with non-Black businesses.
So what you largely have is a vicious circle of Black foks avoiding supporting Black-own businesses RESULTING in Black businesses lacking the resources to be able to provide what Blacks want and need RESULTING in Black foks avoiding supporting Black-own businesses... |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1551
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 02:57 pm: |
|
So what you largely have is a vicious circle of Black foks avoiding supporting Black-own businesses RESULTING in Black businesses lacking the resources to be able to provide what Blacks want and need RESULTING in Black foks avoiding supporting Black-own businesses...
right...thats it in a nutshell.
but if I can get back to the question...part of blacks not have resourcing is b/c they are black and can not get the capital, the loans that whites can get...sorry to harp on these structural issues, but the big picture is the big picture, so the question becomes how does this small picture express the big picture! |
Mzuri
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Mzuri
Post Number: 2965
Registered: 01-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 03:23 pm: |
|
OT - Typically you can't get financing and business loans until you're already established in business. That's another problem for Black ppl 
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7811
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 03:29 pm: |
|
Yukio,
What do you mean by "...so the question becomes how does this small picture express the big picture!"? |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1554
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 03:42 pm: |
|
A discussion on why black people don't support black business is the small picture, as I see it. But what is the big picture? Part of it is the vertaible lack of capital we have, the difficulty as compared w/whites in obtaining loans...
I know we like to say that we have consumer power, and we do, but it is rarely harnessed as a political power at a group level. we are black people w/ black skin but we aint a black community.
|
Enchanted
Veteran Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 636
Registered: 11-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 03:51 pm: |
|
I have to lean with Mzuri on this whole topic of discussion her experience has pretty much been mine and that's not a put down of anyone its just that shes speaking a lot of truth here that we'd rather just sweep under the rug. Abm as usual is dancing around the issues and putting excuses
|
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7815
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 03:52 pm: |
|
Yukio,
Well. I guess I view this differently from you in that I think our lack of capital is a direct consequence of our NOT making and supporting our own businesses.
And vice versa.
So I'd say BOTH of the issues you describe are both Big and the Small pictures. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7816
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 04:00 pm: |
|
Yukio,
Consumer power is nothing but the power to accumulate a bunch of shyt that gives others greater power over YOU.
$1 in the hand of a producer can be worth >$100 of those in the hand of a consumer.
And, sadly, Black foks consume in large part to assuage feelings of inadequacy and inferiority. And until THAT issue is addressed, we're going to CONTINUE to consumer our blacka$$es off. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1556
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 04:06 pm: |
|
ABM:
Yes. We disagree, perhaps. I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing.
I am speaking from access to capital to start businesses. This is the issue b4 blacks get the chance to support a business or becore the entrepreneur gets the opportuntity to actualize their idea for a business.
There were a few studies done a few years ago, that stated that blacks w/better credit find it harder to get loans than whites w/poorer credit. If this is still true, then how can we compete? If this is a national reality, then we can desire to "make" businesses all we want, but not get the capital, or insufficient capital, to even give it a chance. |
Abm
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Abm
Post Number: 7822
Registered: 04-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 04:39 pm: |
|
Yukio,
Many GREAT enterprises were started and maintained without getting bank loans. Foks used their savings, cash from inheritances, loans from relatives, etc. to get start. They were able to generate enuff cashflow to pay their bills and provide their owners some modicum of income which they can subside on. Over time, you get more customers, a solid record upon which to pay your bills, etc. THEN you can borrow money.
And I will say one of the things that Black business owners don't attempt to do enuff of is to sell shares in their companies. Billionaire Bob Johnson said one of the best decisions he ever made was taking BET public (though he eventually took BET of the stock exchange). He said his doing that allowed him to guage what OTHERS truly thought about the worth of BET. And it's much easier for potential creditors/investors to consider loaning and investing when they can obtain an OBJECTIVE sense of what your business is actually WORTH.
Believe me. I am NOT at ALL discounting the issue you're citing about WIDESPREAD biases against Black borrowers. I have PERSONALLY tried to borrow cash for assorted business ventures over the years. Sometimes I was successful, while others I was either unfairly denied or because of the onerous TERMS of the lending I didn't take the money.
So I agree we should continue to highlight and thwart racist lending practices. All I'm saying is that we Black foks ALSO need to address about how WE conduct business. |
Yukio
Veteran Poster
Username: Yukio
Post Number: 1562
Registered: 01-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 04:41 pm: |
|
abm: right. and i don't discount your point. |
Tonya
AALBC .com Platinum Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 4010
Registered: 07-2006
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 04:59 pm: |
|
I'm with you - BB. This IS a good thread. I'mma sit back and lurk. |
Enchanted
Veteran Poster
Username: Enchanted
Post Number: 644
Registered: 11-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 05:18 pm: |
|
Oh sure we know what youre REALLY going to do Kola Watch her come back. LOL! |
Cynique
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Cynique
Post Number: 6695
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 08:29 pm: |
|
It depends on the circumstance as to whether blacks have the power to hold each other back. Power involves numbers and if in a specific instance, black people are in the majority, then they can control the situation by toppling another black who does not appeal to the majority. This is the Uncle Tom symdrome, wherein a black seeking to move up by allying himself with the white hierachy may be sabotaged by fellow blacks who perceive such an individual as being a "suck up" or a "sellout", whether this is true or not. This can often occur in the work place. |
Email This Page