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Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 515
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 11:02 am: | 
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We often try to de-mythologize our hystorical figures.I think black historical figures are no exeption.They are human too,
right? I don't mean to make them look bad, but if their flaws were known, they won't seem so perfect and so intimidating.
In turn, their imperfection and humaness becomes more appealing in the eyes of the general public.
I want to comment on two women: Josephine baker, who has captured my interest since I saw Lynn whitfireld play her in the biopic, and Madame CJ walker, whom I have also followed as closely since making a book report in 4th grade.
I'm an admirer of Josphine Baker but I can't help but be a little honest with her failings:
Although she accomplished so much in matters of africnan beaty and entertainment, the woman was tragically colorstruck.
For example, When she was on the chitling cuircut she was married to three differnt black men during her adolesence on during her time on the chtling circuit. however by the time she gained succes in france, she married three white men.
In the book about her life written by her unofficial son Jean-claude Baker, in one excerpt in the book, she mentions that during a photo shoot she requests that the lights be positioned in a way to make her "appear white". Another excerpt involves her in the 1960's chastizing a journalist on calling her black. She says: "I am not black I am colored!".The journalist responds: "You've been away from the US too long Ms. Baker. Black is beautiful now. If feel sorry for you."
Was this behavior the result of her upbringing in St. louis? Or a result of the times in which she lived?
In the biography about Madame CJ walker and her decendants, It is mentioned that A'lelia used her adopted daughter
Mae, who was half N.American, to pose as a hair model to advertise her family's products. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but I felt this was a bit deceitful on A'lelia's part. How could she decieve women by implying that her product could make their pure african hair look like Mae's mixed-blood hair? How was this progressive for black women? How many women drove themselves mad trying to achieve "good hair" as the product promised? What A'lelia did I still see companies do to this day. Was A'lelia the first? Was she also subconciously enacting the result of the times in which she lived?
Do I admire these women any less?
No I do not.
They layed down the first few layers to what eventullay became the ziggurat black women continue to add on to today. |
Chrishayden
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Chrishayden
Post Number: 1747
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 11:15 am: |
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Roxie:
If we don't know anything about these peoples flaws--
How is it YOU know about them?
You are the only one right? The rest of us don't know anything about it, right? |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 516
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 01:18 pm: |
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why on the defensive chris?
All I was doing was sharing a harmless thought. If the only idea you got from that "essay" was that I was asummed no one else shared my thoughts, then you need a serious nap.
You're an accomplished author. If you feel so threatened you need to rudely insult the work of a student who's just starting to build her own literary career, then you've got problems, not me.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1363
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 07:05 pm: |
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"Another excerpt involves her in the 1960's chastizing a journalist on calling her black. She says: "I am not black I am colored!". . .Was this behavior the result of her upbringing in St. louis?. . ."
Roxie, if I recall right, Josephine Baker was not black; she was mixed. Nothing was wrong with her. It is our inferiority complex which keeps us hell-bent on claiming these people; and it was our "upbringing" which fostered our low self-esteem thus making us relive our colorist past (e.g. Mariah Carey).
There's something wrong with us, not her.
Tonya
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Henry
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 07:25 pm: |
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Josephine Baker was not mixed! She was pure negro deep dark brown woman from St. Louis.
You're oughta your frick'n era.
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Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 528
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 07:51 pm: |
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Actually, she WAS mixed.
Her father was a white man who is only known to this day as "Edw." (as printed on her birth certificate). He was supposedly of german descent and had covered Carrie's medical accomodations when she gave birth to Josephine.
Eddie Carson was ACTUALLY her STEPfather, and the father of her younger siblings.
From observing the color values of the B&W pictures of her I would guess she was around Beyonce's shade. |
Jackie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 08:43 pm: |
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Nope.
Have you watched any of her movies? She was dark brown. Go rent her movies.
Photos of her are with white paste makeup, because she liked people to think she light skinned. Never was.
Beyonce's shade?
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Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 09:31 pm: |
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Here we go again. She doesn't look dark brown to me. She looks medium brown. |
Henry
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 09:57 pm: |
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I told them. She was black and nappyheaded in her movies but light skinned in her publicity photos.
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Henry
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 09:59 pm: |
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Get her movies. She darker than these photos in her movies with negro features.
Princess TamTam
Zou Zou
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Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 10:37 pm: |
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It is possible that Josephine was made up to be darker in her earlier movies. This was done with a lot of actresses back then because they wanted them to look like exotic jungle goddesses or lusty Jezabels as opposed to tragic mulattos. I think the best source would be pictures of her taken when she was young before she went into show business. I find it interesting that some of us seem to think that there are only 2 tones in the black race. Light and dark, but damn, there's a whoooole spectrum of brown shades between! |
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 118
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 11:16 pm: |
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Josephine Baker was not mixed! She was pure negro deep dark brown woman from St. Louis.
You're oughta your frick'n era.
Josephine Baker's MOTHER was unmixed, but Josephine herself was mixed; she felt ostracized from her family because her father was a white man. |
Schakspir
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Schakspir
Post Number: 119
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 11:19 pm: |
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Also, this is a clue for "Henry"(aka Kola): black and white photographs tend to make black people seem darker than they really are. Duhhh. |
Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 11:36 pm: |
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LMAO. Is there no end to this madnesss???? |
Henry
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 12:16 am: |
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None of you know what you're talking about, although Cynique is old enough that she should know better.
Josephine Baker was dark brown. Nobody darkened her in her films. She swims out of the ocean in Princess TamTam with dark brown skin. In every movie she's dark brown. In her t.v. special in the 1960's, she is darker than Diahann Carroll. Her hair was nappy in every movie and then they "conk" it. Go rent "Princess TamTam" and "ZouZou".
If she is mixed, then it sure didn't show in her movies and televised appearances. People are confusing her with Lynn Whitfield, the actress who played her and the lightened 1940's photos. The woman was noticably dark brown and wasn't given the lead in a Harlem play "Shuffle Along" because she was "too darkskinned" to be the leading lady, she left for Paris the next day.
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Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 530
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 06:23 am: |
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Jackie,
I got ALL those pictures too. The fourth one adorns my wall. but if you look at the photos of her from the 20's to the 50's, her shade changes back and forth from photo to photo. anyway, mine was just a guess.
Henry,
remember in "princesse Tam Tam" when she san "Sous le ceil d'afrique" in the bar? She was WAY lighter than those dark blacks surrounding wasn't she?
Anyway just have to say this:
*She was too dark skinned to be in the Chorus line in "shuffle along", but when one lady got sick she took the opportunity to fill in for her. If you look at the famous photo of her in tbhe line She's the darkest girl in it. But then the other girls wer "damn near white".The other light-skinned performers made every effort to sabatoge her chances of performing with them. colorsm's a bitch!
*In france they made her appear darker because unlike the US, the french loved black people's dark skin. So her attempts to get lighter sometimes worked against her in Paris.
*Lynn whittfield was darker than the real Josephine.
My point: Josephine was brown but was not light enough for one country but not dark enough for the other. But somehow she made it through in the end . But in the end she remained wthout an identity of her own, and it affected her children and how she tried to help black people back in the US. In the end her many deeds in the US failed and some of her adopted children were confused with their own identities, her only peace WAS france. A tragic figure, indeed.
I suggest You guys read this book:
Josephine: The Hungry Heart
by Jean-Claude Baker and Chris Chase
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0815411723/ref=pd_sim_b_1/002-9241567-6630447?% 5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155
I've beeen reading about her since I was 9 going from book to book. they all say the same thing except THIS ONE. This book actually brings out the real woman and not the same old myth we've kept reading about before. |
Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 11:53 am: |
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FYI Kola/Henry, when Lena Horne made her cameo appearances in all of those MGM musicals of the 1940s and 50s, Lena Horne's color was tampered with to make her look like a sepia siren when she was in fact much lighter than she appeared in these movies. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1369
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 12:19 pm: |
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***************You're oughta your frick'n era.***************
My bad, Bro.
Tonya
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