| Author |
Message |
    
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2397
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 06:07 pm: | 
|
My friend, Keith Boykin, had this on his board today.
http://www.keithboykin.com/arch/001689.html
_________________
Comparing Civil Rights to Gay Rights
by Keith Boykin
There's a scene in The Color Purple, the movie, where Shug Avery is singing in a lounge when she hears the distant echoes of a familiar song. The choir at her father's church is singing "God Is Trying To Tell You Something" and when Shug hears it, she stops singing her jazz tune and walks out, leading a procession of fans and band members on a trip to the church. In full voice, she bursts into the church, confronts her father and reconciles their years of division. "See daddy, sinners have soul too," she whispers in his ear.
Maybe God is trying to tell us something today too. This year, World AIDS Day falls on the 50th anniversary of Rosa Parks's courageous decision to refuse to give up her bus seat, a move which sparked the modern civil right movement. But today is also the day when Oprah Winfrey's The Color Purple opens on Broadway. And it's the day when the highest court in South Africa has ruled that "gay marriage" must be made legal in that country.
Your Blues Ain't Like Mine
"Can you compare civil rights with gay rights?" That's the question a young student at Vassar College asked me Monday night after I spoke at the school. "Of course you can," I told her. "The problem is that when people hear 'compare' that think they hear 'equate' and black people are reluctant to equate the civil rights movement with the gay rights movement." But to compare simply means to look at the similarities and differences, and on that score, we absolutely can and should compare the civil rights movement with the gay rights movement.
One of the principal arguments raised against comparing black suffering with gay suffering is the red herring that gays did not have to sit in the back of the bus in the same way that gays did. Well, not exactly. Of course gays had to sit in the back of the bus because some gays were black. Bayard Rustin was a black gay man, and one of Dr. King's closest advisers, and he too was forced to sit in the back of the bus. The simplistic reductionist view that seeks to create a wedge between sexuality and race ignores the reality that some blacks are gay and some gays are black.
But there's a larger issue here too. Why does it matter if gays had to sit in the back of the bus? We don't tell Latinos or Native Americans or people with disabilities or women or any other oppressed group that they have to prove their suffering is identical to black suffering in order to be legitimate. Nor are we concerned with which group is worse off in the artificially constructed hierarchy of oppression when we talk about other minorities.
The point is it doesn't matter which group is most oppressed or which was first oppressed or whether they are identically oppressed. What matters is that no group of people should be oppressed. But the more we focus on the hierarchy of difference, the less we focus on the actual oppression.
It's Our Anniversary
That's why I take great comfort in South Africa's decision to move toward marriage equality today. It's the second time in two years when a major civil rights anniversary has fallen on the same day as a major victory in the marriage equality struggle. Last year, on the 50th anniversary of the famous Brown v. Board of Education decision, the state of Massachusetts outlawed marriage discrimination against gays and lesbians. That also sparked outrage from conservative forces in the black community who want to protect the image of the civil rights struggle.
But black people don't hold a monopoly on the civil rights movement. That movement began long before Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat or before Dr. King gave his famous speech in Washington. Dr. King himself acknowledged that many of his tactics and strategies were developed by Mahatma Gandhi in an entirely different struggle years before and thousands of miles away. And Gandhi too learned his philosophy from others.
Over the course of history, the people of the world have been slowly moving toward freedom as we have liberated ourselves from oppressive socially-constructed restrictions on our identities. Fifty years ago, no one thought that a black woman should sit in the front of the bus with white people. Today, a powerful black woman with the most influential show on television will premiere a huge Broadway show adapted from a Pulitzer Prize-winning novel written by another successful black woman.
I am confident that 50 years from now we will look back at this day in the same way we look back at the anniversary of Rosa Parks's courageous move. Our children and grandchildren will wonder why our society was so obsessed with perpetuating bigotry against gays and lesbians. And they will ask us which side we were on and what did we do to make a difference.
|
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2398
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 06:10 pm: |
|
Now this is just me...
but I've never seen a difference between any type of "rights" movement.
Women's rights
Gay rights
Disable people's rights
Jewish rights
To me, they're all part of HUMAN RIGHTS, but are "group specific".
The Civil Rights Movement was for "Black people" in America....and it spread to ALL black people creating a PAN-AFRICAN movement globally.
It also ignited other groups to start a "Women's Rights" movement and a "Gay Rights" movement.
But some black people get very pissed off when you compare the Civil Rights Mvmt. to the Gay Rights Mvmt.
|
Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 145
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 06:16 pm: |
|
I think that's because Black Americans (maybe Black people in general) are much more prejudices against gays than White people.
In the White American mainstream lesbianism is considered "cool".
For Black people this certainly isn't the case. I grew up with my parents telling me how Gays are going to hell..................(not how hot it was to see 2 women make out). |
Africanqueen
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Africanqueen
Post Number: 342
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 11:54 pm: |
|
Did the white man look at a black man as what the world calls immoral? You know what, I guess you can say so because they created the word "black" for our skin color. And they ran away from us with so much fear because of our skin color. Comparing the civil rights movement to gay rights is like comparing heaven and hell to homophobic people who are both black and white. To white people back in the day, comparing black people to them was the same reaction to that of a homophobic. They're totally 2 different things in their eyes. And to just black homophobics, "homosexuality is a sin, while black people are a creation of God and God does not create sin, he creates people."
The thing is, black people aren't handicap because they're black, and shame on anyone who makes fun of a disabled human being... In addition, gay people are a creation of God if their sexuality is genetic.
Unless God creates sin, blacks, disabled, gay people are his creation.
And I agree with Boykins. People should be treated equally no matter what they may be. That's what's legitimate.. and comparison may just help answer our questions, so it's not a bad thing to compare either.
They use to put black kids in Special Ed courses cause they automatically assumed they were disabled by race. They didn't assume black people was gay and put em in the back of the bus because of their sexuality but because of their skin color. Gay people on the other hand are looked at as trash and sin, people going to hell like black people were looked at the same way, except these white folks learned we'red just as equal to them.
The similarities in these two groups (gay and black) may be that one of them will always struggle more than the other in life for being themselves. And the black homosexual will suffer the most because black people seem to always be behind in resurrection.
|
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 366
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 09:22 am: |
|
It disturbs me when I hear Black people defending their own civil rights needs and then turn around and use european dogma to downplay the civil needs of gays. Pisses me the hell off! Hypocrites! Sheep! that's what they are! When will these morons learn: homosexuality is part of our culture and ourselves! |
Africanqueen
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Africanqueen
Post Number: 344
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 05:11 pm: |
|
Look at this BULLSHIT: http://www.realmormonhistory.com/god&skin.htm |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 384
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 07:04 am: |
|
Wanna see true horror?
There are BLACK MORMONS TOO!:
http://www.lds-mormon.com/lds_race.shtml
Scccaaaaarrrry, huh? |
Africanqueen
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Africanqueen
Post Number: 346
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 06, 2005 - 12:56 am: |
|
Yup Roxie, scary it is... |
Brother_rustam
Newbie Poster
Username: Brother_rustam
Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 06, 2005 - 05:20 pm: |
|
I have a problem with homosexuals linking their struggle up with that of AfroAmericans.
First of all, do homosexuals have a 500 year history of being murdered, enslaved, and raped because of thier sexuality.
True homosexuality has been frowned upon for thousands of years and many homosexuals have been oppressed, but there was no organized historic attempt to enslave and slaughter them like what happened to the Black man and woman in the Americas.
Another important factor is Black folks got out in the streets and RIOTED to gain our Civil Rights.
We didn't just beg for them, we EARNED them and our ancestors died for our recognition.
Now it seems that everybody is trying to get on the train we built and ride it to freedom.
Race, religion, and sexual orientation are all totally different subjects and should be addressed differently.
I'm tired of Black people always being used by the "establishment" for thier little PR games.
If we aren't being linked with demons, we're being linked with homosexuality.
If not that, we're being linked with crime and gansta rap.
|
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 392
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 06:03 am: |
|
--First of all, do homosexuals have a 500 year history of being murdered, enslaved, and raped because of thier sexuality.---
Actualy rustam, they had to demand their right to basic human rights like everyone else. Even people that were accused of being homosexual were persecuted like witches.
People that once had great honor and respect were now demonized and dehumanized with the introduction of judaism, christianity and islam. And that includes Women, Magicians, black-skinned people, AND HOMOSEXUALS.
Gays may no have been enslaved but it doesn't mean they were never oppresssed.
In general:
No more of this "I was oppressed more than YOU" stuff again. -_-' It doesn't help black people. It doesn't help ANY group of people at all.
|
Anunaki3600
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Anunaki3600
Post Number: 122
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 06:40 am: |
|
Roxie, I beg to differ with you a little. Even though there are group of people who have been discriminated against in the U.S. The struggle of African people in the U.S. is unique (not I was oppressed more). When AA's were fighting for their rights, i.e. schooling, etc. I did not see other group of people in the fight facing dogs and pigs. Most others were happy being second class citizens as long as AA's were third class or worse off then them. Look at the example of jews who are getting reperations in Europe for their experience during the second World War. I don't see gypsies, gays, slavic people, etc included. Jewish people look at their experience as being unique. I am not saying that oppressed people should not struggle and be free. All I am saying is that they all don't use AA's experience as their yardstick of measuring their oppression. AA's blood, sweat and tears has already provided Affirmative Action goodies to all others groups like the Chinese, Latinos, Gays, etc. I just don't buy the idea that "Since Blacks are no longer oppressed, we too should not be oppressed". |
Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 10:27 am: |
|
Comparing the gay struggle to the black struggle at some point breaks down. Gays could go out into general society and conceal their homosexuality. Blacks couldn't hide behind facades. Their visibility is what made them vulnerable to discrimination. |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 393
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 11:20 am: |
|
Point taken Annunaki.
Your right, Giving merit to a struggle is one thing, but linking it to a whole other type of struggle is very different. Comparing struggles is something a lot of JEWISH ppl I know always seem to do. And it PISSES me off.
But I wonder how hard it has to be being black AND gay? :0!
BTW,Sorry if I sounded harsh, rustam. |
Brother_rustam
Newbie Poster
Username: Brother_rustam
Post Number: 22
Registered: 12-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
|
Roxie
______________________________
Actualy rustam, they had to demand their right to basic human rights like everyone else. Even people that were accused of being homosexual were persecuted like witches.
People that once had great honor and respect were now demonized and dehumanized with the introduction of judaism, christianity and islam. And that includes Women, Magicians, black-skinned people, AND HOMOSEXUALS.
Gays may no have been enslaved but it doesn't mean they were never oppresssed.
In general:
No more of this "I was oppressed more than YOU" stuff again. -_-' It doesn't help black people. It doesn't help ANY group of people at all.
_________________________________
I never said they weren't oppressed.
But homosexual never caught the hell Black people have and still are catching all over the world because of thier race.
Homosexuality is a sexual orientation.
Black is a RACE
There is no comparison.
Nor should we be compared to "magicians".
Plus, homosexuality has been condemned in most cultures around the world thorugh out history regardless of race.
Except for regional conflicts, Black people as a race weren't always looked down upon until the rise of white Supremacy.
______________________
BTW,Sorry if I sounded harsh, rustam.
_____________________
You didn't sound harsh, just a little annoyed at my stance.
Cynnique
____________________________
Comparing the gay struggle to the black struggle at some point breaks down. Gays could go out into general society and conceal their homosexuality. Blacks couldn't hide behind facades. Their visibility is what made them vulnerable to discrimination.
______________________
Good point.
|
Aaron Sailor
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 05:31 pm: |
|
Gays are socially repressed. Black are socially oppressed. That is the difference. |
Yvettep
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Yvettep
Post Number: 803
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 05:00 pm: |
|
There are many gays and lesbians in the Black comunity. They are in your family, in your church. I do not understand talking about "those" gays and "us" Blacks--gay folks are Black folks and Black folks are gay folks. When someone is Black and gay they are both "repressed" and "oppressed." |
|
Email This Page