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Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 352
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 07:06 pm: | 
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Hello! back from Thanksgiving vacation!
Well the several days out of town have given me time to think about the past topic:
http://www.thumperscorner.com/discus/messages/2152/8130.html?1132786588
Let's all be clear that I stick by my neutral view concerning dark-skinned women, but since a dominant worldview can only be successfully challenged by an EQUALLY OPPOSING worldview, I have come to understand that my views are no more helpful to the overall cause of destroying the global perception than views that are on the opposition.
So if another topic about skin color comes up again, you won't see me there.
I'm not giving up, just figuring out where to say what and when to say it. NOW is not the time EVEN for a neutral view. 
-----------------------------------------------
Now give me time to read the other topics and I'll be sure to catch up! |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2362
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 07:17 pm: |
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Hey Miss Roxie! We're so glad to see you back.
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Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 123
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 07:25 pm: |
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I feel the same confusion! Until a year ago, I always thought Black was Black! Never heard or even thought about a thing called "authenic Black" or light skinned people being a different sort of or less Black..... I'm perplexed! Black has always been Black to me! However I WOULD like to see an improvement in AA CULTURE...... |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2364
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 07:47 pm: |
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Afro, it's going to get so much worse.
We're at the beginning of it. You're from what will be called "OLD SCHOOL", back when we wuz ALL jess black.
That's because we all had BLACK mothers.
The mother sets the acculturation.
Not the man.
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Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 354
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 08:33 pm: |
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More and more I'm shifting my perspective to the african/global concept of race. If everyone were allowed to be in the categories in which they are physically attributed, the world would be a little easier. No more "tragic mullato" situations where you are forced to choose between on race or the other yet are accepted by neither, identifying as one race when some of society looks at you and thinks you are another. |
Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 08:37 pm: |
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AfroAmerican:
We AA's gotta stick together because WE KNOW our own history over here in america....we should not let influences outside of our community cause further division..
btw...I wonder why the only people who care about this "authenic black" vs. "light skinned black are mostly women???? hummmmmm.. lol.
also....did you know that a study has shown that MOST AFRICAN AMERICANS (WHOSE FAMILIES SPAN BACK TO SLAVERY) REGARDLESS OF SKIN TONE have a white relative??
This is no lie....but I'm tired of NON AA people trying to define the AA experience....
Peace, my friend. |
Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 124
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 09:04 pm: |
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Vanilla Vixen,
I'm the first to admit I'm neither a Pan-Africanist or Multiracialist! As I've said before if we had a truly STRONG Afro-American community we wouldn't have to worry about this right now!
But it isn't........
Traditionally we've accepted ANYTHING as "African-American". Whether it be in the form of an Octoroon or a West Indian like Sidney Poritier. The problem is there are no "rules" in defining us- compounded by the Hip-Hop culture makes it even WORST.
Like you, I worry very little abou the color of fellow Blacks skin and more about their mind set! Whether they identify with the community, whether they are willing to stregthn our people, etc, etc.
Skin color never really meant anything to me! Black has always been Black! I think the once dark skinned Michael Jackson has did more damaged to fellow AA's than (daughter of a White mother)Halle Berry could EVER do!
So again, I'm less about the skin and more about the IDENTITY! |
Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 125
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 09:14 pm: |
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Also very interesting you brought the White realtive factor up VV!
I DO think its a personal decision whatever any American chooses to identify as! But still....................I absolutely HATE, HATE , HATE hearing AA' speak of their Indian and White Blood!
Its a matter of principle to me! Whites absolutely will NOT mention having Black blood! Neither will Native Americans (many of whom even owned some slaves themselves, and are currently denying Afro-Indians tribal rights) Soooooooo why should WE as people "RESPECT" THEM by doing so???
Fair is fair. You don't claim me, I don't claim you!
And again, if the Afro-American IDENTITY was as strong as it should be (After 400 years), not 1 of us would identify as anthing as BUT AA! Case in piont if both of your parents are AA, then YOU'RE 100%!!! I would love to see more ETHNIC pride and superiority feelings in our people Vanillavixen! |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2365
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 09:44 pm: |
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Vanilla Vixen said:
We AA's gotta stick together because WE KNOW our own history over here in america....we should not let influences outside of our community cause further division..
Kola says:
But that's just it.
In 400 years, you never did stand for shit, other than what your slave master told you to,
...and now those of us WHO DO are coming here.....and since we are your flesh and blood, whether you like it or not......we're going to have a say. Especially since we're the DEFINITIVE "Black People"---the ORIGINALS.
I have TWO Black SONS who will be marrying Black American women and fathering children with them.
You think I want my sons to be niggers just because you're a Proud Bastard who doesn't have any standards and feels like anything goes---anything but a connection with your ancestor's people?
You never LOVED or NURTURED your own goddamned culture....so don't blame that on me and other African women who are PRO-BLACK and are telling you the best that we know from our world.
We are the image of YOUR ancestors. You're only 400 years old...we're 26,000 years old, and guess what? All this shit happened in North Africa looooong before you ever existed. SO we have something you could receive.
Your Slave Master is the one who said "one drop"----NOT YOU.
You didn't come here talking that bullshit.
You were FORCED to be a damned nigger. To believe that anything that rubs up against you...is "contaminated" by you and goes in the same category. CAMEL SHIT.
And another problem with getting LIGHTER and LIGHTER....is that your offspring will someday go in search of their origins, their real truth...
....which would be me....the African woman.
So we can either be Sisters with different beliefs...or you can toss your flaxen hair around and giggle in the mirror about the "Head Nigger Bitch In Charge" title that's stamped across your pineapple yellow forehead.
MOO
Don't make me none. Because when it's all said and done----I, the African woman is the one who will decide who is black.
The only reason that women like you are so Adored/Loved is because Self-hating Dark Black women raised generations of their sons to LOVE your White Blood and COVET it
---they TOLD their own black sons not to bring a black girl home---to marry as LIGHT as they could.
Those were Generations of DARK BLACK WOMEN doing that, Vanilla Vixen.
But that can be reversed and changed all the way around in just another coupla generations--which is what AUTHENTIC black women are doing now that they see your real face.
And this board is called THE KOOL ROOM hosted by KOLA BOOF.
So you're very welcome here, but this is an AFRICAN discussion board.
OH...and don't forget. Kola Boof is BLACK AMERICAN because of her "North Carolina-Tennessee-Georgia family"...not because she hangs around you.
And to Afroamerican:
While you USED TO worry little about skin color and more about mindset....
.....the whole damned game is changing on you sister.
That's what I'm telling you.
You need to start thinking STRATEGICALLY if you plan on having a "black community" in the future, because here's what I KNOW:
"yellow loves black...until there's ENOUGH of them in numbers...then their true faces come out and they turn into Arabs or Latins."
Sicily, Italy, Greece. We've seen ALL THIS happen before, sister.
These people under 30 years old are being given a WHOLE NEW RULE BOOK by the White Man and White Woman.....because the WHITES have figured out how to destroy your people.
They now know the key is your/OUR self-hatred. They can just BREED you out and give free "PASSES" to turn your grandkids and offspring against you.
So the new "mixing" won't be called BLACK, and the truth is,they shouldn't be.
And you're right---Michael Jackson and PLENTY of black folks have done far worse to Black Identity than Halle Berry has.
And don't forget my personal idol Malcolm X. He was yellow and he came to SUDAN. The Black Africans consider him our HERO. But then---he loved Black people and married an authentic black woman. So he proved he was down.
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Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 126
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 09:56 pm: |
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Actually Kola, I don't think the "White man's standard (ie the One Drop Rule) was half as strong as you seem to think! I think the AA community came about more than ANYTHING for the sake of ***POLITICAL POWER***. So AA leaders were happy, and are still quite happy, to count ANY DAMN BODY FROM ANY DAMN WHERE AS "Black" and "African-American" for the numbers. The higher the numbers the more stregthn the community is suppose to half!
90% of this has nothing to with the White man and more about the BLACK man! |
Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 127
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 09:57 pm: |
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opps! Have not "half" |
Kola_boof
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Kola_boof
Post Number: 917
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 10:15 pm: |
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"Strategically"
---they would smart to consider only the children from "Black Mothers"....as Black.
But they don't want to listen to Africans.
They can't get unity, because they have no standards and they just allow any and all trash in their ranks. They hate themselves.
Kill the Queen--the nest will die.
In Africa, the Black man will have a White Mistress...but will have his "real" kids by a Black wife.
It's horrible for the wife and mistress, but it's smarter.
Notice that KOFI ANNAN is married to a white woman in England.
But all his SONS are by his African wife in Ghana.
The Black Man in America has been killing his own nest. He places his queen in the gutter....and the WHITES are so excited by it, they're willing to call these new children "Bi-racials", "mixed"......instead of Black.
The black man is a sucker whose being licked right now.
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Jackie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
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Hi Vanilla Vixen, a lot of lighter skinned brothers and sisters are jealous that Africans empower the dark skinned folks and favor them for obvious reasons. Unless you're gone erase all the evils that high yellow inflicted on darker people I don't see them giving up people who love them and inspire them from other countries.
What alternative you offer the dark skinned women who relate to Kola Boof because she obviously cares about their experience more than you?
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 950
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 11:32 pm: |
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I second that, Jackie. Although I see light-skinned American blacks as my sisters and brothers, they've done absolutely nothing to show their love.
I think the majority of us, the authentics, should be the ones who are in control. A handful of yellow folks should not be running things, especially since they care only about themselves and don't have our best interest at heart.
If mother Africa can help us find our way, then I welcome her with open arms. She's our real sister anyway -- she's closest to us by blood.
Tonya |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 356
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 08:03 am: |
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Afroamerican:
--I absolutely HATE, HATE , HATE hearing AA' speak of their Indian and White Blood!--
I hear you.I was once one of those ppl. But then one day I had realized it made no sense to connect with my indian side if I was still separated from my African side. Then as time passed I noticed more and more people emphasizing their indian blood and getting pissed if no one could detect it in their features! It was sad! Feeling a bit disturbed by this phenomenom and becoming dishonest with myself I decided to go against the flow and embrace the side no one seemed to want. I've never felt more free.
I love my indian side, but my African side needs me more. Too many black people are running away from their dominant ancestor and SOMEONE'S got to break the trend.
----------------------------------------------
Generally speaking:
I went to high school with a guy who was just as mixed as I was but identified as Indian because his hair was more on the straighter side. The same rules were followed by my late grandfather. But Since MY hair leans towards the "nappy", I choose to identify by what my birth certificate says: African American.
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Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 357
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 08:17 am: |
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Kola:
---In Africa, the Black man will have a White Mistress...but will have his "real" kids by a Black wife.
It's horrible for the wife and mistress, but it's smarter.---
I would die happy if that radition returned to the US. We need some balance.
Men seem to do that in ALL societies, even the US. I automatically thought of that tradition when I learned Kevin Federline married Britney. Will "Neicy" EVER get a Fricking clue?! :-/
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Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 11:09 am: |
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Afro American:
By me saying that most AA's (whose family traces back since slavery) have at least one white relative...I am not trying to "claim" white....
I am stating this fact for a reason.
And that reason is that skin color by itself is a poor indicator of what is black and what is not because as AFRICAN AMERICANS WE KNOW GOOD AND DAMN WELL THAT OUR OFFSPRING CAN REACH BACK AND GRAB SOME GENES THAT WE NEVER KNEW EXISTED...
That was my reason for saying that, brother.
Have a nice day! |
Vanillia Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 11:20 am: |
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Kola:
You said: "In 400 years, you never did stand for shit, other than what your slave master told you to,"
Well, I look at this as being the African American's problem. Why are you obsessed with us? Oh..and before you say that you're not obsessed with me (the light skinned chick) just remember that I AM THE MOTHER, THE SISTER, THE AUNT, THE COUSIN,etc. OF THAT DARK SKINNED BLACK AMERICAN THAT YOU ARE SPEAKING OF...
Perhaps you are barking up the wrong tree....there are black people in the caribbean who really need you help more than we African Americans do.
Case in point, don't you think it's weird that African Americans are about the ONLY BLACK people who at least will claim Africa in our title???
Look at Jamaicans, and other "West Indian" people...they will beat the crap out of you if you call them african and they have WAYYY more pure "african" blood than you average african american...
Perhaps you should crusade over there and save those poor people from the brainwashing since they are genetically more similar to you than african americans are...
Just a thought. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2366
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 12:27 pm: |
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Vanilla Vixen,
OF COURSE I'm obsessed with "YOU".
You're my flesh and blood---and you are CLAIMING me by insisting that you're black.
Which is the most important thing of all.
Not all light skinned with flowing hair try to claim us blacks.
A lot of this is a case by case basis.
I love you, sister.
I really do.
Please don't shut out my love and please don't take my "generalizations" to be written in stone.
I'm just as flawed as the next person, but I do have standards.
Also, I'm an AMERICAN citizen sweetie. I dont' live in Africa. I live in California.
"Black Americans" are my concern, because that's where I live and that's who raised me. That's MY family. And that's my business. Not Africa.
But if you read my autobiography--you'll find out that I have been doing far more than you know...for Africa.
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Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 03:09 pm: |
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Kola:
From what I know, you are an African.
Most native blacks here in the US are NOT full blooded african. I am sorry but you need to study OUR history here in America..
Even with my light skin, your average african american will identify and relate to me and any other light skinned black as their family because MOMMA, DADDY, AUNT, UNCLE, BROTHER, SISTER, etc. looks more like me than like you or your average full blooded african...cause we ain't full bood african anymore here in America Kola.
This is NOT my opinion, it is a well known fact.
We African Americans are very accecpting and we have probably accecpted you,even though we have our OWN culture, standards, and ethnic look that is all our own.
There is denying that.
Again, I bought up the "west indian" blacks because they probably need your help more than we do. They are the ones who won't claim africa to save their lives, yet grandma oftentimes looks just like a pure south african because she is...
Yet, we black americans are the ones that you dwell on? Damn, you should go to the Caribbean where you see blacks there get an attitude if you mistake them for african....or see people walking around with bleach cream stains on their skin from bleaching cream....these are common occurances there...but not in the States.
We african americans have no problem acknowledging our african "roots".
Kola, the truth to the matter is that we african americans know our own....you can say all you want but at the end of the day, african americans will always have more in common with me and other african americans than with any african that moves to this country.
Sorry, but best wishes to your movement!
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2368
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 03:22 pm: |
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I was adopted and raised by Black Americans, Vanilla Vixen.
You ain't told me shit.
And I look just as "Black American" as you
....and your FEAR of my so called "movement" is the only thing I can justify.
Because you SHOULD be afraid. Very afraid.
Nothing you can say can stop what your ancestors are about to do.
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Blkamericanking
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Blkamericanking
Post Number: 108
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 03:39 pm: |
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Vanilla Vixen,
I agree with you when you say blacks in the Caribbean need more help than African Americans. A lot of those blacks in the Caribbean who look pure don't even consider themselves black and want nothing to do with Africa. Blacks like Samma Sosa, who is Dominican, don't even consider themselves blacks. They have been taught to hate blackness and they actually try to classify themselves as Latin or white, which is BS! Even in Brazil, which is supposed to have the largest black population outside of Africa, a lot of the brown skinned blacks think they are white.
But there are dark, brown and light skinned Africa Americans who wanna connect with Africa. I don't see light skinned African Americans classifying themselves as white, because we know who we are. |
Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 03:54 pm: |
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BLKamericanking:
We are >>>>here<<<<<
Peace, my friend. |
Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 03:55 pm: |
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Kola:
No, Kola.
It would not take me long to know you are probably NOT african american.
But that should not be taken as an insult.
Sorry. |
Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 04:03 pm: |
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blkamericanking:
Another thing....I was told by a friend from the Caribbean that she checks the box "other" when asked about race...(like on an application or census)
She refuses to check black and wishes that there was an option that says "West Indian"..and this woman is DARK skinned with very african features.
Now YOU tell me....how many times have you heard a light skinned black person say some crap like that??
THOSE are the people who need the most help, if helping is really what people want to do.
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Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 04:13 pm: |
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Kola:
Regarding your "movement"....
You'll NEVER be able to turn mother/father against child, brother against sister...and that's what you would have to do to convince people that light skinned blacks are not black.
Trust me!!!
If anything, once they find out your an african, you're motives will be questioned.
But we AA's do love and acccept you as a sister!!
My advice to you is to go to the Caribbean...they need you sooo much to learn to love themselves....they are in a very bad mental state over there. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 951
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 04:22 pm: |
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Kola,
First off, like the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of African Americans, you look waaaay more like Africa than Vanilla Vixen described herself.
Also, when I listen to people like her speak, it becomes clear that Light/mixed blacks don't have a clue about how dark-skinned folks truly view them and their position within the family.... There's nothing closer than the bond between brown skin. I can walk down the street and encounter a dark-skinned black, whom I've never met before, and end up exchaging that glance -- the one that says "I know." I've never done that with a light-skinned person; yet I do it often with dark ones. There's some things that light/mixed folks will never know. Only those with brown skin can know; and that bonds the brown ones together, more than the light ones realize.
Tonya |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2370
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 04:26 pm: |
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Vanilla Vixen,
I'm not trying to turn ANYONE against anyone.
Your paranoia is causing you to mis-read me.
I just want you to be ON TOP, to be FREE and because the whole world of black people copies and imitates whatever you do....I want you to set a better example for the rest of us.
An example that affirms blackness...and not White Supremacy.
I don't need to go anywhere. Black people can (and do) read my books all over the world.
Women in South Africa, Ethiopia, Germany, England, the West Indies.....and North Carolina...write to me everyday.
My own Nana was from North Carolina. My Black American family is from Tennessee, Georgia and Kentucky.
MUCH OF WHAT I THINK...comes from them.
I don't have to GO anywhere. And because I am African--I don't see color as you see it. I am not a former slave, not raised by White people on a plantation.
But I am still....you before you was you. And God sent me here.
And I have a lot to say.
I don't think you read my posts.
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 221
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 06:31 pm: |
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I disagree with something VV said: that we don't look anything like African people. The average African American does NOT look like they're possibly mixed. There are MANY children in MY generation, who look genuinely WEST African. My own niece could probably pass for West African, as well as a few more people I know.
So, if the AVERAGE black american looks like your MIXED family, I seriously question where you've been hanging out. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2372
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 06:39 pm: |
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I agree Tonya and Renata.
When I arrived here at age 8, I thought the Black Americans in Washington D.C. were West Africans.
I still think that the vast majority of Black Americans look more African than anything else.
As I've said many times...even the "yellow" ones look West African to me.
It's the "mixed" ones (Jennifer Beales) that I don't feel immediate connection to. But a woman who looks like Tisha Campbell...I feel her as Black and African. My sister Spring is like "Apollonia".
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Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 06:40 pm: |
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Renata:
I never said that we didn't look "anything" like africans, but you can easily distinguish MOST AA's from Africans..
Hmmmmm, I wonder why?
And I did not say that the average AA is mixed as far as being bi-racial.
I said the the average AA whose roots trace back to slavery in the US is NOT 100% african..
If you don't see that, I wonder where you've been?? |
Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 06:49 pm: |
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Kola:
I know for a fact that there is a large percentage of Caribbean/african people who reside in DC....So, maybe the people you saw there looked like africans because they WERE africans...
You said: "I am not a former slave, not raised by White people on a plantation."
I say: EXACTELY!!! We can finally agree on something.
I am not ashamed of my people's history of being enslaved because we are still here!!!
And even if you cannot relate to what we go through because of OUR history, you must remember that it is still OUR history.
You are an honorary African-American.
But you are an African.
African Americans took the term AA to show that we are proud of our roots, but we are a distinct culture now...
Although, probably only few will want to beleive it on this board...African Americans on a whole are more comfortable around and among each other.
And that even includes africans, such as yourself.
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 223
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 06:58 pm: |
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Specifically:
"your average african american will identify and relate to me and any other light skinned black as their family because MOMMA, DADDY, AUNT, UNCLE, BROTHER, SISTER, etc. looks more like me than like you or your average full blooded african..."
Mama and Uncle may, but daddy and aunt may not necessarily. There are quite a few Nigerians, Cameroonians, Somali, Senegalese, Gambians, Ghanaians (and others) in Atlanta, and if not for their accents, they'd fit right in.
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Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 06:59 pm: |
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Tonya:
You said: " There's nothing closer than the bond between brown skin. I can walk down the street and encounter a dark-skinned black, whom I've never met before, and end up exchaging that glance -- the one that says "I know." I've never done that with a light-skinned person; >>
That's funny because I usually exchange those glances with blacks of all complexions, all the time.
But I am one of those people who speak to everyone who is black.
I make that my habit. I say hello to honor their presence...do you do that? Or do you have a scowl on your face when you see a light skinned sista?
That makes a difference you know! LOL |
Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 07:04 pm: |
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Renata:
In my lifetime, I have only seen a case of ONE woman who I did not know was african...
And she had an african american mom, so I don't even know if she counts.
I mean, it's not an insult...it's just an observation and I am sure that many people other than myself can tell an african from an african american probably at least 80% of the time.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 955
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 07:06 pm: |
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That's what I'm talking about... I don't know where she's coming from.. but all the Africans I know look just like AAs... Like you said, Reneta, it's their accents that gives them away. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 956
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 07:13 pm: |
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*Or do you have a scowl on your face when you see a light skinned sista?*
What about the light-skinned brotha? Or do you think this is all about the light/bright sista, BS. between women?
Tonya
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Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 07:37 pm: |
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Tonya:
What about him? Most dark skinned women I know do not have the same animosity toward light skinned men as they do the women...But that can also extend to some black women may not like white women, per se, but would be the a white man.
Same deal huh?
...well you know us women!
Thank You for reminding me to post this point!! |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2373
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 07:44 pm: |
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Vanilla Vixen,
You constantly put words in my mouth.
I am not ashamed of your history in this country, either.
I greatly admire the spirit and tenacity of African Americans and I have the utmost love and respect (and more importantly--UNDERSTANDING) for what has transpired here.
I was only trying to point out that the REASON WHY I have had to "learn" to accept such a notion as lightskinned blacks.
Only in America do they have this one drop rule. So why should I lie to you?
It's better if I'm honest and tell you what I see and what your people thought BEFORE they were brought here.
I'm not against you. But I don't want to be PHONEY with you.
I also do not want to separate you from me, as you think I do. If you are claiming me, then I am claiming you.
But the color thing....
That's your slave master's system, not YOURS. In Africa, the light people---and even when we have Light people in our own African families---they are loved and are family, but no one calls them "black". Because that's not ALL they are.
It's disrespectful to mixed people.
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Jackie
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 09:16 pm: |
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Notice how the fear of Kola Boof is making sisters like Vanilla Vixen try to care about dark skinned sisters all of a sudden.
Interesting.
It's like the light folk don't want us to be close to them "Africans 'n Carribeans".
|
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 958
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 09:59 pm: |
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VV,
I date light-skinned men.. and I also have light-skinned female friends & family members; infact, all but 2 of my girlfriends are light-skinned and the people that raised me included mixed/light women -- but I don't want to be them, and I don't want to force them to be me. Can you understand that?
Tonya |
Africanqueen
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Africanqueen
Post Number: 337
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 10:20 pm: |
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I think Vixen need to have a conversation with white people and kick their ass for callin her black when she thinks she's white, or whatever the hell she is, I mean it's not the black people fault they call her black. WTF is wrong with her comin around here actin as if we care if she start her own race of 3 mixed people?
Vixen, u might as well say that once black people differentiate from Africans they'll finally have their history erased, and there will be no longer any of that... but to be realistic, it ain't gonna happen. I think black history is a beautiful thing, to come such a long way after so much trouble. |
Africanqueen
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Africanqueen
Post Number: 338
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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"In my lifetime, I have only seen a case of ONE woman who I did not
know was african...
And she had an african american mom, so I don't even know if she
counts.
I mean, it's not an insult...it's just an observation and I am sure
that many people other than myself can tell an african from an african
american probably at least 80% of the time."
My say: 110% of the time, South Sudanese, Kenyans, Ugandians, some South Africans, some West Africans, Some Nigerians, e.t.c... can differentiate from AAs because they're allot more darker than they are.
A light skinned AA can look south African or Nigerian, even Ethiopian or Somalian because in those African countries there's been mixed Africans too.
The reality of a black person is, you may be mixed, but will always be black because a black man's blood is stronger than a white man's. I mean we might as well say everyone belong to us because once we inpreg them, their children become ours. We should look at this as a positive thing actually, not a negative thing.
Black people own the world so much that even Mariah Carrey is passed for a black chick, and so is Halle... and you can go down the line, lol.
Black power, what can I say . That's just another way to look at it, just being positive..
And oh, I can care less about how light they are, all that matters is that they've got no choice but to be black.
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Africanqueen
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Africanqueen
Post Number: 339
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 10:40 pm: |
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LOL,
Some people here's actin like muh 8th grade teammate who couldn't believe an Ethipian boy wuz African cuz he had light skin, pretty brown eyes and curly black hair. People come on, just be proud to be called black, it's power, it's African, lol. Even when we become slaves, we still own the mother land.. just be proud, don't listen to what the white man says about the good land of Africa. Even though there's wars after wars, Africa is where life really exists. And when I lived there, it felt like God promised me 300 years to live. There is a life so much more special in Africa no wonder there's more destruction there because the devil does not want anyone to enjoy life where it exists the most.
But in America, 10 years is like a week in Africa. That's just my point of view, my opinion, my proudness to be African .
And if it was not for war, I would still be living a life in Africa today.
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Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 11:15 pm: |
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Jackie:
You said: "It's like the light folk don't want us to be close to them "Africans 'n Carribeans".
I say: It's the Light Folk???
Dear Jackie, you need to travel more or either make more friends in the Carribeans because it is the DARKEST carribeans that DO WANT TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH AFRICA, AND WILL CURSE YOU TO DEATH IF YOU MISTAKE THEM FOR AFRICANS!!!
I am not making this up, sweetie.
It's your dark island brothers and especially the sisters who really do NOT wish to associate with africa, not the average african american.
...and that's a fact.
Sorry. |
Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 11:23 pm: |
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African Queen:
You said: "Vixen, u might as well say that once black people differentiate from Africans they'll finally have their history erased, and there will be no longer any of that... but to be realistic, it ain't gonna happen. I think black history is a beautiful thing, to come such a long way after so much trouble."
I say: Who will have their history erased??? The African American?
What are you talking about?
I am not putting down africans in any way...I am simply stating the obvious here that african americans ANCESTORS are africans....
And to show respect for that, hence you have the title "African American" which as I stated before...NO OTHER BLACKS WILL CALL THEMSELVES AFRICAN BUT US...
Have you ever heard of a African-Haitian, African Jamaican? African Trini? Hell, The black cubans won't even call themselves africans...they call themselves "Afro" Cubans...
And MOST of the groups that I listed above have MUCH STRONGER african blood running through their veins than the average african american..
Sorry to break it to you, like this though. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 224
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 12:46 am: |
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There are two people I can name off of the top of my head who I would probably think were West African if they'd never been famous and if I never heard them speak: Madge Sinclair, and Bernie Mac. Madge looks like Nigerian people I've met, and Bernie Mac looks like an older version of people I've met from Senegal and Ivory Coast. I'm sure if I started to think about it, I could think of more. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2377
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 01:02 am: |
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AAs who could pass for PURE African:
Alfre Woodard
Redd Foxx
Don Cheadle
Taye Diggs
Tyson Beckford
Toni Morrison
Lauryn Hill
Wesley Snipes
the list is endless
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 225
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 01:26 am: |
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Tyrese. He has that really nice bone structure and SPECTACULAR teeth. |
Anunaki3600
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Anunaki3600
Post Number: 121
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 02:33 am: |
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Don't be fooled into thinking that folks from the Islands don't know that they are Africans. They were among the first group to have an African Conciousness with the likes of Marcus Garvey, etc. Some of the first Black Educational Institutions were in places like Trinidad and produced scholars like Ivan Van Sertima, etc who spread African Conciousness globally. Don't forget Peter Tosh, Burning Spear etc.. By going to a beach on holidays on the Islands and trying to get your groove back by meeting beach boys with no conciousness but a big d*ck does not mean that you know and understand Island folks. Beach boys will only tell you what the think you want to hear. The majority of AA's are DARK skinned, nappy haired, Black people who don't look like Halle or Beyonce but like their ancestors. My two and a half cents. |
Blaklioness
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 123
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 03:15 am: |
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Vanilla,
I think you are forgetting that MUCH of the culture of Afro America (and in most places whether on the continent or in the diaspora) is a remnant or spinoff of SLAVE/COLONIAL culture....otherwise folks like you wouldn't exist genetically the way you do. I was born in this country...and I do NOT identify with the light skinned experience. The majority of my relatives are not light. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2378
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 04:47 am: |
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Vanilla Vixen,
I was adopted by the JOHNSON family in S.E. Wash. D.C.
That whole Anacostia section and S.E. is nothing but BLACK AMERICANS from the south, sweetie.
To me, they looked like West Africans--because that's what people like Denzel Washington and Alfre Woodard and "The Jeffersons" and the cast of "Good Times" and Maya Angelou and Mayor Marion Berry and Aretha Franklin and Puff Daddy and The Jacksons look like---straight up West Africans. But they were not Africans. NONE OF THEM.
Anannuki3600---hey daddy , as usual, you're right. But I didn't feel like trying to educate her about the West Indians....who, to me, are just like the Africans AND the Black Americans. One minute they're skin bleaching...the next, they got a Black Power movement going.
I have lived all over the world, and when it comes to racial identity---I have to say that most Blacks, regardless of where they live--have the exact same insecurities and act them out the same.
Vanilla Vixen is insecure because she feels threatened that she's going to lose her PEDESTAL if the American Negro starts listening to a Black Mamba African Mother like me. She's trying to protect a system that FAVORS HER but that obliterates and erases her ancestors and blackness itself.
If she really loves her Black Kin...then she should be able to see that a change has to come.
And whatever happens to the Black Americans...passes down to ALL OF US worldwide.
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Blkamericanking
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Blkamericanking
Post Number: 109
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 05:15 am: |
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Y'all just don't understand sista, Vanilla Vixen. No matter if we are dark, light or brown skinned, we as African Americans see ourselves as ONE and we will have it no other way. Out of all the blacks in the diaspora, it seems that Black Americans are the only ones trying to reach out to the blacks in the Caribbean, Africa and Central and South America. But for some reason NONE of those other groups of blacks are even thinking about reaching back.
The blacks from Cuba, Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico have the nerve to call themselves Latino or Latina, because their minds are literally SCREWED UP and they are ashamed of being called black. They need serious help NOT Black Americans. You will never meet a Black Americans who is ashamed of being black, even the light skinned are not ashamed of being called black. Africans and blacks in the western hemisphere should be thankful for Black Americans because it seems that we are the only blacks in the world who have the strength and courage to fight for black people on this earth. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 959
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 06:45 am: |
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***No matter if we are dark, light or brown skinned, we as African Americans see ourselves as ONE and we will have it no other way.***
BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND, BLKING --
THAT'S OLD SCHOOL -- IT'S NO LONGER LIKE THAT ANYMORE.
I NOTICED THE CHANGE DURING MY JUNIOR & SENIOR YEARS AT HIGH SCHOOL. THE DARK-SKINNED SISTAHS WASN'T HAVING IT ANYMORE -- THEY WERE SERIOUSLY ON THE MOVE. THEY TRIED MANY TIMES TO RECRUIT ME, BY USING ALL KINDS OF TACTICS; BUT MY LOYALTY WAS WITH MY LIGHT-SKINNED FRIENDS.... I RESPECTED THOSE SISTAHS TREMENDOUSLY, THOUGH, AND I KNEW PRECISELY WHERE THEY WERE COMING FROM.
THAT WAS FIFTEEN YEARS AGO.... TODAY, MORE & MORE DARK-SKINNED SISTAHS & BROTHAHS ARE ON THAT SAME MOVE. WE NO LONGER SEE OURSELVES AS ONE; AND WE *WILL* HAVE OUR WAY.
TONYA |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 363
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 08:37 am: |
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---The black cubans won't even call themselves africans...they call themselves "Afro" Cubans... --
Vanilla, at least they have the self-pride to add "Afro" to their identity, unlike Dominicans or Black Puerto Ricans.
Expressing your ancestral/cultural link to the homeland is no different than saying your are FROM that land.
"Afro" denotes that they are still africans, but Africans raised in another land.
THAT'S what diasporas are. |
Marcus A.
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 10:52 am: |
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Personally, I think Vanilla Vixen makes some good points.
I think what she is trying to say is that AA's history in America has produced black people of all shades. We are no longer African and an african will be the FIRST to tell you that. We are african american and yes, we do know our own.
Bravo, Vanilla Vixen!! |
Mulatto^Diplomat
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 10:55 am: |
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Roxie
Thats because the domincans and ricans are mulattos. |
Marcus A.
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 11:04 am: |
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To Kola:
I find it curious that you have NOT talked about the other black people that Vanilla Vixen has talked about.
IMO, they are MUCH more "screwed-up" than AA's. My wife and I just came back from the Jamaica and I will tell you this: Caribbean people are THE MOST color conscious people I've ever seen in my life.
AA's are nowhere as bad as they and I can tell you this from 1st hand experience.
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Cynnique
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 11:05 am: |
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Frankly, I'm tired of listening to the dark-skinned brigade carrying on about how right they are, and how wrong everybody else is. I say if you want to separate and start your own sect, then go ahead and do it. Bye-Bye. I won't miss you. (But you'll miss me and my kind because you won't have a scape goat for all of your problems.) |
Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 128
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 12:03 pm: |
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Wow, so much conversation since I've been gone! So here's my 2 cents:
1. Yes many AA's LOOK African (ie Bernie Mack, Cedric the Entertainer, Wesley Snipes, etc), but also believe many absolutely do NOT. I say this because I see African Mulattos ALL the time on television and MOST OF THEM could actually "pass" as AA's with no problem.(for example Thandie Newton, Boris Kojoe, Obama Barak, and the "mulatto" lead character woman on Hotel Rowanda). So knowing this I find it hard to believe that African peoples grow up seeing Mulatto children like Thandie Newton and Sohpia O (from Hotel Rowanda)in their villages as NOT being "Black" but "mixed", would actually find Tisha Cambell "African looking" and really "Black"- Tisha Cambell is far lighter and less African looking than Both of these women. Even Sophia O, Osama, Boris and all these African mixes look totally UNMIXED to me and like a regular Browned skinned Afro-American! So if these standards were actually ever taught in African villages than people would more than likely apply them to other situations and not simply abandon them when they meet Americans................
2. Again, I think our conversation is getting confusing because one minute someone's talking about Light skinned Biracials (White women's children) being called Black and someone responding is talking about an AA that happens to be Light complexed. So we are CONFUSING THE TWO! Let's leave White women's children OUT of the discussion!
3. Vanilla Vixen, I too feel Kola doesn't truly understand what AA's see as being plain as day (Black is Black no matter the skin tone)! But I also understand that Kola is trying to force AUTHENIC Blackness because she feels (not my opinion, but hers) that Afro-Americans have an obligation to the Blacks in the rest of the world to be GOOD representation of "Blacks" because we are supposely the only ones with media access. She feels that if we show Beyonce (who "we" feel IS authenically Black) as our STANDARD than the rest of the world is going to kill themselves trying to meet this :light skinn, blond hair to the butt, long nose standard........ (I know I personally don't think everyone else is our responsibility, again, but Kola does. I think Blacks everywhere else have more power than we do. Heck they own their own countries and have majority rule in most places). |
Africanqueen
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Africanqueen
Post Number: 340
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 01:37 pm: |
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Vixen, it's all good.. no reason to apologize, I don't make much comments about race. I can care less, but it's important to stay true to oneself, so I stay true to Africa and African people. Too bad people gettin mixed have a hard time finding their identity since it's rare that they'll be light skinned once that happens, but anyway, don't take anything I say personal. I was mostly being sarcastic, idk what else, lol. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2380
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 02:52 pm: |
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Marcus A.,
Where have you been?
I HAVE written whole fucking books and essays on the groups (West Indians and African self-hatred) that Vanilla Vixen has talked about.
Maybe if you would PURCHASE some of my books--then you'd be equipped to talk about me. But you haven't and you're not.
And furthermore...I don't live in the West Indies, I don't live in AFRICA.
I live between Washington D.C. and California. MY BLACK SONS live where I live.
My concern is MY SURROUNDINGS.
And as far as I'm concerned, "Black Americans" are MY PEOPLE and I can only give them....me.
AfroAmerican said:
So knowing this I find it hard to believe that African peoples grow up seeing Mulatto children like Thandie Newton and Sohpia O (from Hotel Rowanda)in their villages as NOT being "Black" but "mixed",
KOLA:
Those children didn't grow up in any African Village!!!
They grew up in LONDON, in EUROPE.
And in Africa---mulattoes will kill you if you call them "black". What part do you not understand?
And Anannuki3600 is living in Africa right now---and HE just told you that in KENYA and CONGO, the Blacks consider Halle Berry and Sophia types to be.....WHITE.
Just what I've been trying to tell you.
Perhaps if you saw just HOW BLACK the people in Africa are--you would realize why it's impossible for them to look at the Sophia woman from "Hotel Rwanda" and see her as black.
Hell...just watching her nestled between those PURE BLACK children in the movie that were supposed to be hers (what a joke)....demonstrated that she isn't BLACK. She's mixed.
And you're dead wrong....deep black African mothers with mixed babies in Africa do not call their babies "black", no does the village, the society----they are raised and taught that they are MIXED with whatever they are, but that they are "African".
Believe whatever you want to, honey.
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Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 03:11 pm: |
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AfroAmerican, you are truely a voice of reason on this board.
I do not see how Kola (or anyone else) can define "authenic" blackness and apply it to african americans whose roots trace back to slavery.
By what methodology would one use? Skin Color?
As I KEEP saying (which the issue is being glosssed by) most of us are NOT PURE 100% AFRICAN, EVEN THOSE WITH DARKER SKIN!!!
Case in point: Alex Haley, traced his family history on both his mother and father sides. As we all know his father's side made the story of Kunte Kente.....His mother's side told the story of Queen, his great-grandmother who was the daughter of the white plantation owner.
It is laughable to think that you're gonna find authenic blackness among AA's....
WOULD WE CONSIDER ALEX HALEY BLACK? He's the man pictured last...
How about the rest of these men...
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Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 03:13 pm: |
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edit: alex's picture is next to last! |
Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 03:22 pm: |
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Marcus A:
I know that we know our own.
Kola is african but was raised by american black parents.
Kola, to me, is a bit out of touch with the african american community becuase she would know that the "one drop rule" doesn't mean sh*t to us...
Any african american would know that.
The same way that the constitition never being admended to consider the black man/women as being 5/5 of a person...
That sh*t don't mean nothing to us either, because we're still here, we are still surviving dispite EVERY GROUP OF BLACKS NOT DOING ANYTHING TO HELP US (INCLUDING AFRICANS)!!
I am here only to provide info of the obvious.
Nothing that I am saying, can not be easily verified. Hell, I am not even giving my opinion, I telling the facts.
Peace, my friend. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2382
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 03:24 pm: |
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There is no METHODOLOGY Vanilla Vixen.
The people go by intuition and what they feel--they look for your TRIBE in your face and they look at your HAIR.
And of course, being that Africans are the DEFINITIVE Black people----it's totally natural we would immediately look MOST....for ourselves in a person.
Not for the American Indian in you, not for the white...but for US.
This is why any African can look at Redd Foxx and Toni Morrison...supposedly HIGH YELLOW people....and see that they are Black and African.
The TRIBES of Africa and the hair of Africa is what makes them "authentic". Despite the light skin.
And one thing I'm sick of...is you not reading my posts.
You keep talking about what I "think" without taking time to READ what I actually do think.
When I listed Redd Foxx and Toni Morrison above as looking like "Pure Africans"----that's just what I was talking about.
I notice AfroAmerican does this, too.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2383
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 03:27 pm: |
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Oh please, Vanilla Vixen.
If you're claiming that Mariah Carey is a BLACK woman---then the one drop rule obviously means a helluva a lot to your people.
And the vast majority of you DO try to claim that she's black.
Her damn "black" daddy wasn't even BLACK.
You DO live and die by the one drop rule.
It means EVERYTHING to you---which is why you even pressure those people who WERE NOT raised in your community....
like Vin Diesel and The Rock
.....you pressure them to claim Blackness.
And for what???
FOR WHAT?
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 228
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 03:33 pm: |
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AfroAmerican: Again, I think our conversation is getting confusing because one minute someone's talking about Light skinned Biracials (White women's children) being called Black and someone responding is talking about an AA that happens to be Light complexed. So we are CONFUSING THE TWO! Let's leave White women's children OUT of the discussion!
Renata: I said before that some people DO confuse light skin with bi-racial. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's noticed that. |
Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 03:37 pm: |
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Kola:
ARE THE MEN THAT I PICTURED CONSIDERED BLACK?? |
Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 134
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 03:44 pm: |
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I DO actually read your post Kola! lol.
Most of the time I skip EVERYONE ELSE'S post and read your's FIRST!(and I enjoy reading them even when I don't agree with everything).
I think most Americans have a hard time UNDERSTANDING your definitions of what African is!
Looking for Nappy hair??? Thandie Newton has nappy hair, along with that Sophia woman, and the African Biracial Carmen Ejogo. Sade is the ONLY African Biracial I have ever seen that looked remotely "mixed".
Basically 9/10 times you will find NAPPY HAIR in ALL African Biracials, yet they are not considered "Black" according to you and what you claim is an African standard. So this "nappy hair' method seems pretty UNREASONABLE! Even according to you, people can NOT BE BLACK yet "nappy headed" at the same time! (if this is true then how is "nappy hair" a meausuring stick for Blackness?).
Take a deep breathe and try to understand how confusing this is......(NOT TRYING TO BE RUDE, ONLY SIMPLY EXPLAIN WHAT ALL THE CONFUSION COMES FROM).
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Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 135
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 03:53 pm: |
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Also answering the last post, in all fairness Black Americans allow EVERYONE to be "African-American". Not just people who look like Mariah Carey.
Every year Sidney Portier is awarded a lifetime achievment award for being the first "African-American" actor to do something....................
This is a man that has NO AA ancestry, no AA realtives, and only MOVED to America when he became of age. He was born in Barbadoes and then his family moved to St. Kitts islands and THEN onto the US.
We allow EVERYONE to be "us"! Even the AA's on this board accept YOU KOLA a woman that has no BLOOD AA realtives nor history in this country as a "Black" woman.....
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Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 03:54 pm: |
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Kola:
Now that I see that you have no methodology in place and that you want to "eyeball" us african americans and look for certain tribes....I cannot talk to you on a scientific level.
Perhaps you should take a course or perhaps a refresher course in phenotype/Genotype to know about the african american...
And by all mean....PLEASE TELL ME IF THE MEN I POSTED ARE BLACK TO YOU!!
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 229
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 04:01 pm: |
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Thandie Newton's hair doesn't look nappy at all to me. Curly, but not nappy.
Nappy means needing a texturizer to get a more manageable afro, or having hair that rubber bands won't hold in place. |
Vanilla Vixen
Unregistered guest
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 04:04 pm: |
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Afroamerican:
You said: We allow EVERYONE to be "us"! Even the AA's on this board accept YOU KOLA a woman that has no BLOOD AA realtives nor history in this country as a "Black" woman.....
I say: Thank You.
Consider this my friend, we african americans are a minority not only in the US, but in the world...all things considered....but
WE set many/most of the trends...MANY, MANY african braiders started making serious loot AFTER the black american made braids popular..
WE set the culture that EVERYONE wants to put down, but EVERYONE tries to duplicate.
That is why I LOVE, LOVE LOVE for people to throw in my (or any AA's) face the slavery issue...as even Kola has done.
Cause it shows just how amazing we really are.
...Even if we ain't authenic african, we still embrace and respect africans as our ancestors.
Now that's fly.
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Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 136
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 04:21 pm: |
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Thandie RELAXES her hair just like MOST Black women who live in Western societies. I'm sorry Renata, but Curly my ass!
http://www.chud.com/graphics7/ThandieNewton8.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/chanka/images/thandie%20newton.jpg
http://cdn.compuserve.com/gallery/i/n/newton/a1dhan0563712.jpg
People will use any excuse to keep from calling their hair "coarse", "kinky" , or "nappy". |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2385
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 04:29 pm: |
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Vanilla Vixen,
The men you posted...are blacker in person than in those photos. And yes, I would consider them to be "black".
But Djimon Hounsou is more Authentic than they are.
DO YOU GET IT?
They are "watered down" in comparison to an authentic Black man.
Just as Alek Wek is more authentic than Kola Boof.
AfroAmerican, I am technically biracial....and from a distance, my hair appears to be "nappy".
But if you were DOING my hair and brushed the roots...you would see my shame.
Somewhere in the MIDDLE up from the scalp, my hair becomes nappier and nappier. Thank God.
And you're right. Because we're from totally different nations...we can't see others points or UNDERSTAND.
Africans are like Europeans---no matter what they tell you. I'm just being honest with you. They're prejudiced against "mixed" and vice versa.
Italians are considered "White" by the SWEDISH and the GERMANS, but "lower bastard" white.
Africans are like that, too.
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Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 137
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 04:32 pm: |
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Vanillia Vixen,
That's why I believe we could have such a WONDERFUL community if we'd simply start building STRONGER family bonds and stop allowing people who have no LEGITIMATE CLAIM to become part of OUR community.
The Jews (who mind you are some of the most powerful people on earth)do NOT allow NON-JEWS to raise their offspring. Doesn't matter if the non-jew is WHITE or not! (ie Vin Diseal).
Neither do the Japanese allow, other Asians, to be classed as "Japanese". Doesn't matter how much "all Asian people look alike". Right to this day their are 3rd generation Koreans living in Japan who the Japanese will NOT marry and consider "outsiders" (ie all the Sidney Portier, Colin Powells, Osama Baraks).
Nobody believes in this we are the world shit but AA's. We are the ones always pushing for stupid "alliances" with everyone all over the globe, and making everybody minorities- Or everyone with African blood as our "brothers". All while the Afro-American community fails apart! |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2386
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 04:34 pm: |
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AfroAmerican said:
Even the AA's on this board accept YOU KOLA a woman that has no BLOOD AA realtives nor history in this country as a "Black" woman.....
KOLA:
What a joke. African women aren't "BLACK WOMEN"? We are THEEEEE Black Women.
And I totally accept American Black women...I accept them even more than you do.
Because I don't limit them to being ONLY BLACK, when clearly....some of them are not authentically black.
Vanessa Williams is NOT authentically black. If she was...she wouldn't have blue eyes and white people's features.
She's mixed. Her two black parents are also mixed with Indian and White.
SO WHAT.
I still accept her as my sister.
You and Vanilla are really confusing the issue---thinking that I don't consider these women my FAMILY just because they're light skinned.
I certainly do consider lightskinned black women to be my flesh and blood family.
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Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 138
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 04:49 pm: |
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I understand that the African woman will always be the QUEEN of all other Black women.....
what I was speaking of in that particular post was AA's accepting you Kola as "Black American" or AA too when you have 2 STRIKES AGAINST YOU:
1. You were NOT born into an AA family (just like Mariah Carey only WORST).
2. You actually share NO blood with Afro-Americans. Your mother was Sudanese and your father was Arab. Two bloods that do not make up the AA genetic code.
...........but because we are so accepting of *ANYTHING* you can very well be a "Black" American woman whenever you do or do (not) choose to be!
(THAT WAS MY ACTUAL PIONT)
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2387
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 04:54 pm: |
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Authentic Black Men from Africa
Michael Jordan, an "authentic" black
man as far as Africans would be concerned
WATERED DOWN
AFRICAN "Arab" Watered Down
Black American Watered Down
NOT EVEN BLACK ANYMORE
Authentic BLACK women
WATERED DOWN...Kola Boof
Half-Arab
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 230
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 04:56 pm: |
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I clicked your links, Afroamerican, and they prove nothing to me. Looks like curly hair blow dried straight, but I admit I could be wrong.
Come to the south, and you'll truly see NAPPY hair. My mother once almost had a nervous breakdown when she was combing my hair, and the comb almost got tangled in my hair, and then it broke. That's nappy. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 231
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 05:00 pm: |
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I'm sorry, I don't mean to say that to sound like I'm putting my own hair down, because I LOVE it (which is why I make sure it's not straightened).
The biggest sense of pride I've probably ever felt is when some girl once walked up to me and said "that's the BIGGEST afro I've ever seen in my life."
HUGE and gorgeous, just like (I think) women should wear their hair. I'm trying to get it bigger. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2388
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 05:01 pm: |
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AFRO-AMERICAN,
You're right.
I am not "Black American" by blood.
But then again....just by looking at ME...it's quite clear whose BLOOD you all come from.
Your acceptance of me is called "Negritude".
And how could you not accept your own MOTHERSEED?
It's a mute point you're making, only because---Black Americans
are from AFRICA. They are made of the blood of 250 African tribes.
Just because you're Black American, doesn't mean he isn't an African.
also sister---there are HUGE numbers of AAs who do not accept me once they know that I'm from AFRICA.
Not everybody accepts me, but I've been so closely raised with AAs until it doesn't bother me---I don't take it personally. I KNOW them and I know their quirks. They're my people now. I am an Orphan and I don't have any other people to cling to.
Because I look just look EXACTLY like them--it's impossible for them to discard me. Nature itself intervenes.
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 232
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 05:04 pm: |
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Prince looks like a girl with a mustache. |
Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 139
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 05:08 pm: |
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lol
Renata
I **AM** FROM THE SOUTH!
I'm from North Carolina- born and raised my entire life!
My entire family is "AfricanAmerican"! So I KNOW what nappy/coarse hair that has been PROCESSED and permed looks like.
Now I could be wrong, but I've never, EVER seen a picture of Thandie Newton where she had curly hair(If you've seen one please provide a link or photo!).
Anyway I think this is one of those discussions that no one can win! This seems to be more of a matter of opinion! |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 235
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 05:13 pm: |
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I guess so.
I still think her hair looks more blow dried straight than relaxed. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2389
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 05:13 pm: |
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OH....
and AfroAmerican...
I am "culturally" Black American.
LMAO!!!!
Just thought I'd slide that one in.
My whole family is from the South and when I went to Senegal (where they worship Black Americans)---I spoke with a Southern Accent and pretended to be a Black American the whole time.
Even the other Black American tourists were CONVINCED I was just nice a girl from out Kentucky way.
The Senegalese treated me SOOOOO GOOOOD. I got free cab rides, a free lobster---a "Great Mother" gave me free bags of fabric and kissed me to death, crying, "My baby's returned!"
Yeah, I returned alright. LMAO
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Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 140
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 05:23 pm: |
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Oh boy!
I love you to death kola but............
This Negrotude idea about "African blood" is what Keeps AA in trouble now! This is what makes Mariah Carey "American's most Misunderstood Black woman" to everyone. Many of us believe since she has our "blood"- basically African blood- that it makes her "one of us". As you preach Black Americans are to Africa!
Also, what you mention: "Looking like one of us". Terrance Howard and Tiger Woods LOOK Black American (or AA) to MOST people however they DEFINETLY are NOT "one of us".
I want to evoke a new STANDARD of actually being BORN IN THE COMMUNITY to be "one of us" which is a sure fire way to determine who's Black, AA, or African etc.
The "nappy hair" test isn't reliable enough (ie Thandie Newton)
Neither is the "you descended from Africa" test (ie Mariah Carey)
Neither is the "Eyeball or you look like me"test (ie Tiger Woods). |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 238
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 05:45 pm: |
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The problem with Mariah isn't that she DOESN'T have African blood, only that she's got more of everyone else's blood than African. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 239
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 05:47 pm: |
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By this standard, I could have one black great grandparent, 3 white great grandparents, and 4 chinese great grandparents, and be black. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2392
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 05:48 pm: |
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But Afro--there isn't a TEST.
Africans look at Tiger Woods and see a "half-caste"
look at Mariah Carey and see a WHITE WOMAN (black blood doesn't count if it's not showing)
look at ICE CUBE, who has Indian and white blood, and see----A BLACK MAN
You keep expecting some "FAIR" "JUSTICE-oriented" scientific measurement.
It's not like that, Afro.
Africans are just like Europeans.
Prejudiced.
That's where a STANDARD comes from. From a group prejudice that is designed to keep out anything that can destroy the group.
Black Americans DESPERATELY need such a standard--because they are being destroyed by too much mixing.
As for Authentic Black Africans---
When they look at you....they are looking for THEMSELVES, as clearly and deeply as possible.
And depending on how much of themselves they see present, they claim you as themself...or as mixed....or as OUTsider.
It's not RELIABLE or scientific.
They just want to TRUST that you are them.
Whites do the exact same to you in America. They have a ONE DROP RULE.....to keep you out.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2393
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 05:49 pm: |
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BTW, AfroAmerican
...I love you,too.
And thanks so much for starting all these NEW topics.
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Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 144
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 06:11 pm: |
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Thanks Kola!
And Renata,
I really dont' believe Mariah is 1/4 Black! She says her mother was Irish and her dad was Venzuelan and AA. Venzueleans can be of any race- including Black!
My logic is: during this time of segregation and oppression against American blacks I seriously doubt that if Mariah's Venuelean realtive had NOT been BLACK he would have married a Black American during that time.Many other non-Blacks will not marry AA's to this day, neverless in the 1950s when racism was at one of its all time highs!!!!! Latin Americans are notouriously color consious, far worst than Americans.
So I believe Mariah's Venezuelan grandparent was very much Black or at least a Black looking Mulatto!
I also think Mariah does things (like Beyonce) with her hair to MAKE herself appear Whiter! I remember running across pictures of Mariah as a child. She had sandy brown hair, which was wavy, a big nose and tan little skin----she looked sterotypically "Biracial". And not like the European woman you see today!
These hair styles have a lot to do with our perception.... |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 240
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 06:22 pm: |
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When she first became famous, her NATURAL hair was curly (more wavy actually, not even the tight "bi-racial" curly), her skin is white, and her hair was red (from her Irish roots, probably).
Also, during that time, some FOREIGNERS, feeling like outsiders themselves and not being accepted in the white community, didn't mind being marrying black people. Even IRISH (almost the whitest of whites) married black and hispanic people, because as Irish and Catholic, non-Irish baptists didn't allow them into their community. In Mississippi, TODAY, white people won't marry white skinned Jewish people, who do marry black people. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 241
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 06:25 pm: |
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And it's also telling that she says her father is Venezuelan AND black. Would a child of an Jamaican say their father is Jamaican AND black? or Brazilian AND black?
Or Black Jamaican. Black Brazilian.
He was either a Venezuelan AND black, as she said. OR a Black Venezuelan, which she doesn't. |
Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 147
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 06:26 pm: |
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Well Renata,
this is all left up to speculation until she tells us what RACE her Venzulean nationality grandfather was................
Saying Venzulean tells us very little. Its like a Jamician or somebody saying they had an American grandparent....... |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 242
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 06:27 pm: |
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It would be like my saying my mother is African AND american. Instead of African American. |
Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 148
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 06:35 pm: |
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Well most Foriegn people who come to America introduce themselves by their nation of orgin not as "Blacks" & "Whites" like we do!
I also don't put it pass anybody, including celebrities to LIE or exegerrate the truth! Honestly, unless she's never seen the man (her grandfather) how could she possible NOT know his race? Surely her father or somebody knew something that was passed down though word of mouth.....
Tiger Woods is a perfect example of how people can DISTORT the truth about Biracial hertiages. This man is NOT 1/8 Black looking as he does! Truly impossible...... |
Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 149
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 06:42 pm: |
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Well it makes perfect sense to me!
In everyday dealings I call myself Black! Only when I'm trying to be politically correct or make cultural distinctions do I use the term "African-American" or just "American".
If I were talking about a Black from another country I WOULD NOT refer to them as Black! I would call them by their national orgins!
For example on this board we normally say "Black Americans" for AAs and African for people of different African nationalities.
Of course these Africans are BLACK TOO!!! But foriegn people are called by their country of orgins, etc Cuban, Puerto Rican, Nigerian etc. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2399
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 06:44 pm: |
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But who cares if Mariah's father was a charcoal Sudanese.
She looks WHITE. Therefore she's white.
__________
Also...how can BEYONCE be the "standard" for Black American women, when 80% of black women in this country are brown to black?
Beyonce is a symbol that White America ALLOWS their White kids to accept as a "black sex symbol" (and by the way, I'm a Beyonce fan).
Kenya Moore--a chocolate Beyonce---is the thing they are supposed to reject.
Halle Berry is another "NEUTRAL" mulatto representation whose main duty is to reinforce the WHITE beauty standard. Her looks do not challenge it. Just like LENA HORNE...when you walk out of their movies, you don't immediately think---"black women are some fine women".
You think---"LIGHT" skinned or mixed women are some fine women.
And that's why they're ALLOWED and Kenya Moore is not. (Kenya's womb produces BLACK men/the Black race)
Halle and Beyonce's children are less threatening, less able to identify with "the black people in Africa" and can continue to be "compromised"---notice Tiger Woods procreating with a pure Swedish blonde. He would be horrified to sit next to India Arie or Lauryn Hill I bet. To him, they're beneath him.
_________________
And also---if 80% of the Black women in this country looked like BEYONCE...how would the black man get born?
You're not claiming that an entire nation of mulatto yellow women are going to churn out black babies. They're not.
I see far more women who look like Fantasia, Anita Baker, Angela Bassett and Mary J. and Whitney.....than I do Beyonce in this country.
I do like Beyonce's beauty, though. I love her face and her body type. To me, she's gorgeous and I buy all her music. I like her a lot.
Her hair is to remove her from us.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2400
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 06:49 pm: |
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If I were talking about a Black from another country I WOULD NOT refer to them as Black! I would call them by their national orgins!
But we call ourselves "BLACK" in Africa just like you do. Why wouldn't we?
In fact, when we hear Black Americans calling themselves black---we think----"You're not black! WE ARE!"
LOL
But I totally understand.
Because you don't have a tribe name or a country of your own....you substituted the word "Black" in place of saying....I'm an Ekoi from Nigeria.
To you..."black" is all you are.
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 243
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 09:48 pm: |
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"If I were talking about a Black from another country I WOULD NOT refer to them as Black! I would call them by their national orgins!"
In a country like Nigeria, or such, you wouldn't HAVE to refer to them as black, it's understood. But in a society like this one, when you're asked your race, "My mother is American" doesn't explain squat. "My mother is BLACK AMERICAN" does. And with Venezuela being a multicultural society as well, there are black Venezuelans, and "Venezuelans" (ie, native Venezuelans). There are Black Brits, and "Brits", (ie, native white Brits) etc. To be Venezuelan AND black, to be Brit AND black, is not the same as being "black Venezuelan", "black brit", etc.
And you kind of made my point when you said that sometimes you call yourself Black, sometimes, African American, sometimes American. When, honestly, have you referred to yourself as "Black ... and American"? "African ... and American"?
Maybe we can just agree to disagree. |
Blaklioness
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Blaklioness
Post Number: 125
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 09:57 pm: |
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Renata:
Prince IS a girl with a mustache! lol!
Afroamerican:
Why are you still acting like we didn't get nappy hair and Black skin 'til we came to this country!? We AIN'T no new goddamn invention produced out of "colorblind" (whatever the hell that is!) love between equals. Continental Africans and Diasporal Africans with ALL of our crazy ass slave and colonial mindsets belong to each other....best well to remember that! |
Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 150
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 10:12 pm: |
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Blaklioness,
I respect your Pan-Africanist view. However, I am certainly not a PAN AFRICANIST and I'm really only concerned with my community- the AA one!
I'm not worried about alliances with Hispanics, other Blacks, Arabs, Asians, Minorities, Indian etc!
I've said all this ealier in the thread about my POV about me not being willing to pledge allegance to everyone " descended from Africans". Hell that's half the world. I'm worried about the people BORN INTO THE AFRO-AMERICAN COMMUNITY!
That's my NEW STANDARD for concern! |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 244
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 10:49 pm: |
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I personally don't feel as though I'm even trying to form an alliance with AFricans. I can't help but to like them, because I AM them, whether I was born there or here.
I've told my sister on more than one occassion, when she laughs at African people for their skin color: You're a nigger, just like they are. She doesn't get it. She thinks, being American, she has more in common with white people (not implying that's how you think).
But, I digress. Whether I was born here, in Jamaica, or where ever, I'm still African. A LOST one, maybe.
That's just the truth. My liking or disliking my country of birth won't change it. My wanting to fit in or stand out won't change it.
As I tell my sister as an example: Hating short people isn't going to make me 5'7".
(Disliking what you are isn't going to change what you are).
Again, not implying that you feel that way, Afroamerican, just explaining why perhaps my views may seem somewhat Pan-Africanist. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2401
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 10:59 pm: |
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Renata, you're my girl
I didn't mean to offend you. And like I already stated--I totally understand why AAs do that.
The thing is....Africans get EXTREMELY offended by it (I know I do)...and AAs constantly claim that "they're" the black people and the rest of us are just nationalities, etc.
You might have noticed that two of Senegal's most popular singing groups have the word "Black" in their group names. I can't think of them now.
But notice they don't call themselves "African Papa Malassa"
They use a name like "Black Papa Malassa"...or notice Fela Kuti's smash hit song from Nigeria, "Sweet, Sweet Black Woman".
We use BLACK just as much you. We were called nigger BEFORE YOU (there were settlements and missionaries before slavery) and we have "Pogo niggers".
But you constantly have these AAs who say, "She's not black--she's African."
I'm like WHUUUU?
I totally understand why you talk like that, though.
Let me show a good reverse situation:
A lot of AAs get pissed at me for calling them "Black American"......they want me to say "African American".
They will get mad and ask, "Are you trying to say we're not Africans, too?"
But the reason I say "Black American" is because I'm worried they won't know which ones I'm talking about...Africans or Americans. So I say Black Americans.
I do consider BAs to be African.
So that's why I TOTALLY get what you're saying.
Neither of us disagrees.
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Africanqueen
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Africanqueen
Post Number: 341
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 11:12 pm: |
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This thread prove that ain't no such thing as a "final word" LOL. |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 367
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 09:57 am: |
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Africanqueen,
That title was based my one time post, a statement from which I had intended no responses. Since it's not relevant to the current topic going on here, don't take the title into account.
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Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 370
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 11:15 am: |
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Kola,
I would just stop trying to explain everything to some of the posters here.
Some people aren't even willing to TRY and understand another's POV. They're not worth the effort.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 961
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 12:05 pm: |
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Is it just me.. or do the blacks from the Islands not totally resemble most African Americans and/or the part of Africa where most of our ancestors came from. Their skin is usually the same color, yes.. but generally their features are a lot different. Most of them don't have the broad noses & full lips that's common to AAs and the majority of our African ancestors, (not the ones I've seen). Maybe they don't want to be called African because they don't want to get confused with AAs and the part of Africa where AAs originated (west Africa). I mean.. If they (the Islanders) don't look exactly like West Africans & AAs, and are different from them in many ways, why should they want to be identified as them. When you consider the fact that AAs represents west Africa the most (in terms of features) and are the most influential representation of African people, it's understandable that some Islanders would not want to identify themselves as African at all, since it's a good chance that they'd get confused for West Africans, or AAs.
Just a thought.
Tonya |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 371
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 12:24 pm: |
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I hear alot of people say "Oh are you from the islands?" if they see a very mixed person. But I've never understood that logic because the majority of West Indians I've seen here AND on the Islands looked more West African than Americans. The visibly mixed islanders I saw were far and few in comparison. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2402
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 12:27 pm: |
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Tonya, that's nonsense.
Black American slave tribes were forced to MIX...much more than the Islander slaves and were in slavery a lot longer.
Many of the Islanders are still "pure" Mandingo or pure Yoruba (Grace Jones looks like an African goddess come to life).....but Black Americans were not allowed to stay with their own tribe---a Fulani was FORCED to mate with a Yoruba, a Mandingo was FORCED to breed with a Shona----that way, they lost their languages----and they were raped MORE by Whites than Islanders, then mixed with Indian more frequently than Islanders.
How can you say Grace Jones, Peter Tosh and Marcus Garvey don't look West African?
The Islanders look MORE African than the people in America, and their reactions to "Africa" and "Blackness" are virtually equal to that of Black Americans.
Many Islanders have self-hatred problems (the "brown'n" epidemic is going on with skin bleaching and the HIP HOP rap video white girl revolution has hit big with them, just like it does in all countries)....while a great deal of them are Pan Africanist revolutionaries.
Jamaica especially...has very strong ties to West Africa. They share a holiday commemorating the Middle Passage, and each year, tens of thousands of Jamaicans make a pilgrimage to Nigeria.....and tens of thousands of Nigerians come to Jamaica.
I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about Islanders don't want to identify with Africans.
I see the reaction towards Africa being "the exact same" in Brazil, the United States, the West Indies, Central America-----all the blacks outside Africa claim Africa and DENY Africa in equal measures.
Of course, unlike Black Americans---West Indians do have their own countries.
Morgan Freeman and Whoopi Goldberg and many Black Americans have been VERY VOCAL in their rejection of being called "African". I don't see the Islanders any different than the AAs when it comes to that.
My question is this---
Why do we have to COMPETE with the Islanders as to who is more African or Black identified?
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2403
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 12:36 pm: |
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This is taken from the NEW YORK POST---PAGE SIX----in 2003:
GREAT DEBATES
THE latest issue of revitalized BlackBook magazine is bound to start some arguments. For starters, it prints a letter pop star Pink wrote to Vogue editrix Anna Wintour asking her to stop wearing fur. Legendary ad man George Lois apologizes for his part in the decline of Western civilization - creating the "I want my MTV" campaign. Radio-talker Curtis Sliwa blasts the Democrats as "apologists for criminals and appeasers to our enemies." And Kola Boof, Osama bin Laden's former mistress, attacks Whoopi Goldberg and Morgan Freeman for saying they aren't Africans. Hmmm . . . last we checked, both actors were Americans.
LINK: http://entertainment.myway.com/celebgossip/pgsix/id/07_25_2003_6.html
*Not all of "ANY" group is down with Africa.
You have Islanders who think just like Tonya, Blaklioness and Renata
---then you have others who feel like Vanilla Vixen. They just want their own community.
And Africa is not ENVOGUE right now.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 962
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 12:44 pm: |
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Kola,
***Kenya Moore--a chocolate Beyonce---is the thing they are supposed to reject.
Halle Berry is another "NEUTRAL" mulatto representation whose main duty is to reinforce the WHITE beauty standard. Her looks do not challenge it. Just like LENA HORNE...when you walk out of their movies, you don't immediately think---"black women are some fine women".
You think---"LIGHT" skinned or mixed women are some fine women.
And that's why they're ALLOWED and Kenya Moore is not. (Kenya's womb produces BLACK men/the Black race)***
This is what I don't get.... How is Kenya Moore's "beauty" any different, in terms of white supremacy beauty standards & black female representation, than Beyounce's. You said so yourself: she's a "chocolate Beyounce", and that's true. European standards of beauty includes more that just skin color. What about the features? Are we "compromising" that too, now? I am a dark-skinned sistah with "keen" features but I am not going to jump on the Kenye Moore band wagon because, to me that truly defeats the purpose. If breaking down the barriors of white supremacy standards is the objective.. how does a "chcolate covered european beauty" a "CUTE TO BE DARK-SKINNED" sistah like Kenya help to achieve that goal?
Tonya
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2404
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 12:51 pm: |
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Well, Tonya...people have to take baby steps.
Kenya's name being "Kenya" and her being chocolate....is just a step closer to your ideal....than Beyonce.
We can't expect people to just totally go from one extreme to the next. Notice how Kenya's deep chocolate complexion disqualifies her PERIOD.
That right there tells you a lot about...what it's actually about.
And like I said. I love Beyonce. I just hate how she's being USED to promote a certain image---but I still love Beyonce.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 963
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 01:01 pm: |
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***Many of the Islanders are still "pure"...***
I'm not saying that they don't look African; I'm saying they don't look like they came from the same part of africa that our ancestors did. And I can't totally recall what Grace Jones looks like.. but, if I'm not mistaken, she doesn't look West African, to me, either... and neither do most Islanders.
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 964
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 02:14 pm: |
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***And like I said. I love Beyonce. I just hate how she's being USED to promote a certain image---but I still love Beyonce.***
She's not BEING USED to promote anything; she, Halle Berry, and women like them are WILLING PARTICIPANTS in this.
Do you honestly believe that these two highly intelligent women don't know what their images portray???
Come on now!
Whatever's being USED is being used by none other than THEM. They know the deal. They are NOT innocent... in any way.
Tonya
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2406
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 06:17 pm: |
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Hi Tonya,
I honestly don't believe that Beyonce is that aware of "sociological" issues----she's on a pedestal, and to her, anyone who speaks like you and I do are just jealous.
Her father, her mother, J.Z.'s rap empire and this whole nation adores and ADVISES her.....and naturally, she doesn't want that adoration to end.
I don't believe that she's AS AWARE of the damage being caused....as I believe someone like Mary J. Blige is aware.
I have listened to several interviews by both of them. Beyonce actually believes that she's proving that a Black girl....can be a white girl, too----and that we should be proud of her like her white looking Mother is.
I know. DUH
She's stupid. But that's how she sees it.
Halle Berry, on the other hand, feels betrayed by dark Black women's inability to accept the fact that she can only represent through HER body and her beauty.
The "system" itself is not her fault.
She wants what any human being wants....and that is to be successful and have her loved ones be proud of her and to be "beautiful"----no different than what Angela Bassett wants out of life.
Of course, Halle and Beyonce are both aware that they BENEFIT from colorism, from white supremacy--they do know it---but what can they do?
Stop achieving? (Surely, I would love for them to publicly acknowledge and speak against colorism, but to them---White actresses, singers have it easier than they do and they're being discriminated against.)
They have a struggle as well, despite being lighter and more accepted.
I appreciate the contributions and achievements of BEYONCE and Halle Berry.....although I am consistently hoping for more "us" to rise up....and in Lauryn Hill, India Arie, Kimberly Elise....I do find myself cheering and adoring these images FAR MORE, because of how hard won and hated they are.
I personally never felt that Halle's image catered to white people. I feel that Halle has a "personal" obligation in representing herself--which happens to be biracial.
I blame HOLLYWOOD and the SYSTEM and I blame the black community for being so religiously colorstruck and always helping to elevate the lightest images and symbols.....above the dark ones that more accurately reflect black people.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 967
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 09:06 pm: |
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Yeah, I kinda get the feeling that Beyounce is a little bit stupid, which I hate to say, because I she appears to be a very sweet girl. But, still, I know she isn't stupid to the point where she's not aware of what her light skin means in a color-stuck society. No way!
And no, I don't think they should stop "achieving"... but, at the same time, I wouldn't want my daughter growing up thinking that what these women are doing is right.
(This includes ANGELA BASSETT and even Lauryn Hill, btw. They don't represent black beauty, neither).
Whether they know that they are wrong or not (and I find it hard to believe that they don't) I don't think it's healthy for young women, especially, to think it's ok to glorify women who are willing to place themselves in such a position in order to "achieve". I said this before, their images are no different than the images of white people portraying black folk in black face during Jim Crow. But lets say that these women don't understand it on that level; they know that they look nothing like the majority of black poeple -- that much they know; and, frankly, that should be enough for them to understand completely.
I can care less that these women ended up doing whats utterly dishonest, deceptive, and unethical (knowingly or not).. but I think that excusing their behavior is the wrong message to send to young folk.
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 969
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 09:55 pm: |
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Clarification: I couldn't care less that these women ended up doing whats utterly dishonest, deceptive, and unethical... |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 11:24 pm: |
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How doesn't Lauren Hill represent black beauty? I am not trying to be rude or anything, I just honestly want to know why you feel this way. |
Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 372
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 06:32 am: |
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Kola:
God, the post is at it again! -_-'They REALLY hate your guts,don't they?!
Anyway, I used to be told that all the hate I recieved from other people was just jealousy, but now that seems a bit too simple an explaination to accept now.
Tonya:
Not even Angela basset or Lauryn hill? Just to be clear ,who represents black beauty from your perspective? You seem to eliminate alot of people from that category.
Both of you:
Let's be honest in the fact that many of these women are celebrities and may (or will) not look out for their average counterparts now that they've succumbed to the "every woman or herself" mentality of show business. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 971
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 12:44 pm: |
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Hi Anonymous! What's up, Roxie!
To me, the average black woman looks more like the beautiful female who played alongside Angela Bassett as Tina Turner's sister in the movie "what's love got to do with it?".. not Angela Bassett. As for Lauryn Hill, it's obvious as well.... How many non- heavily mixed black women have Lauryn's nose(?).. (which happens to be a prominent feature of European beauty standards). And, how many of us are shaped anything like her??? Lauryn has a wafe (sp) like figure, which is most common to women of European descent. Most black women (again, those who aren't heavily mixed) are curvier with fuller breast and/or backsides....
I think we've gotten to the point where we can no longer deny our usage of European beauty standards as a way of "prettying" up our *ill perceived* lack of physical beauty, which is good. It's a start, at least. But we've fallen into a rut where we are too comfortable with (to borrow a term from Kola, which I find very catchy) "compromise".. negogiating our perceived beauty: Lauryn has dark skin so that's good enough; never mind the fact that she doesn't have all, or even most, of the features that the average black female has. And Byounce... well... she's "Bootylicious".... She has the "Booty" so that's good enough.... It's "black enough"....
Don't get me wrong, I think both women are extremely talented; I think Beyounce is most likely a sweet caring person.. AND LAURYN (!!!).... That's my girl -- I am one of her biggest fans because, culturally, she represents us bona fide sistahs to the tee -- you know I'm down with my girl LAURYN!.. which is why it truly pains me to say that, although she's extremely beautiful, drop dead gorgeous, in fact... her physical appearance doesn't adequately capture the *true* essence of our very distinct, extraordinarily rare, exquisite & intense, splendor... our beauty.. one that we should be genuinely be proud of..... We should be knocking down doors to showcase our glory.. our magnificence! So for the life of me.. I don't see why we'd EVER want to "compromise?"....
Anyway...
I love Lauryn; Beyounce seems sweet, and Angela Bassett is my girl, too. But, I don't think their visual images adequately represents our beauty, that's all.
Tonya |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2407
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 02:04 pm: |
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Excuse me, MISS TONYA.
Some of us are "Nilotic", not "Negroid".
Alek Wek also has a nose like Lauryn's.
We have millions of African women with slender noses, large foreheads, V-shaped faces.....like Lauryn Hill. And they're pure BLACK.
And another thing...more than half the women in Africa are WAIFS.
West African women are KNOWN for their shapeliness and large rear ends.
East African women are known for being EXTREMELY TALL and are very skinny but with curves.
Black American women were raped and abused for hundreds of years---and it's resulted in a weight problem that has now become genetic. In fact, we see this in the whole Western Hemisphere with black women who had to pack on hundreds of pounds during slavery as a "defense" against being raped. They DELIBERATELY made themselves unattractive.
Most Black women in Africa don't get fat until they have babies or reach 40.
If you take off Lauryn and Angela's fake hair---they are the living embodiment of BLACK women. They both look African. Lauryn has butterfly lips, black coal eyes and the face of a Nubian.
I don't know what the hell Tonya is talking about.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 972
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 02:12 pm: |
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Roxie:
***Let's be honest in the fact that many of these women are celebrities and may (or will) not look out for their average counterparts now that they've succumbed to the "every woman or herself" mentality of show business.***
Tonya:
The same could be said about: "Fiddy", 2 live Crew, Eazy-E, Ice Cube, Ice T, Jay-Z, Snoop Dog, All of N.W.A (Niggaz With Attitudes)....
Get the picture?
Tonya |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2408
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 02:15 pm: |
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The Dinkas are the blackest people in the world. They all have skinny noses.
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Africanqueen
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Africanqueen
Post Number: 345
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 05:14 pm: |
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Look at this BULLSHIT: http://www.realmormonhistory.com/god&skin.htm
I can't believe we have all this time to comment about skin color...
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Roxie
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Roxie
Post Number: 377
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 06:38 pm: |
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Mormons have always been bullshitters. |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 973
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 08:17 pm: |
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Well, then... MISS KOLA........... allow me to clarify...
WHEN I SAY THE AVERAGE BLACK WOMEN..
I'M SPEAKING OF THE AVERAGE AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMAN.. DARK-SKINNED, NAPPY HEADED, NEGROIDS.. RIGHT? I MEAN.. AFTER ALL, THAT'S WHO THESE ARTISTS (ANGELA & LAURYN) ARE SUPPOSED TO BE REPRESENTING....
ALSO, WHEN I REFER TO AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN AS CURVACEOUS AND FULL, I DON'T, IN ANY WAY, MEAN "FAT" - (F-A-T)
...PHAT, MAYBE.... BUT CERTAINLY NOT "FAT"...
THAT'S WHAT THE HELL I'M TALKING ABOUT.
By the way, am I missing something? I don't know where the tone of your post came from, but, unless I'm missing something, it definitely said a lot.
And it did not say... PEACE.
Tonya |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2409
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 08:54 pm: |
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Oh Tonya, please.
I was actually laughing while I wrote my post, which is why it started out as...MISS TONYA.
I was laughing because I couldn't believe what you were claiming.
First of all....celebrities are rarely expected to be just "average". Not even when they're white.
I do think you're being unfair to Angela and Lauryn, both of whom are clearly negroid...and who are HEROES to the average people--and they both have black women noses.
They look NO DIFFERENT than Angie Stone did when she was 70 pounds lighter.
You're right, Phyllis Yvonne Stickney (who played Angela's sister) is a beautiful black woman who better represents a type of U.S. "negroid" look. But Angela and Lauryn are, too. Vanessa Bell Calloway and Alfred Woodard are, too. They're all the same TYPE.
I've seen women like them in this country all my life, Tonya.
And I'm still waiting on you to have some babies--so you can make a difference in the long run.
We need NEW MENTALITIES. Otherwise, thick-nosed women will never be in.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 974
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 08:54 pm: |
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Basically what I'm saying is..
I don't think African-American women should be represented by the
"light-skinned honey"... the "cute to be dark-skinned chocolate" ...
nor the "pretty Africans", neither.
It's time we represent our pretty sugar selves, shit!
Tonya |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2410
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 09:03 pm: |
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Don't miss my last post.
And what you fail to realize Tonya is that the "cute to be dark skinned chocolate"....can make all chocolate seem attractive if it's sold enough.
MEANING....I have a white girlfriend who used to be so shocked, because whenever she went to set the trash out or something....the Mexican boys across the street would call her "Cindy Crawford".
This woman is very thin, but she looks very much like the wife from "WELCOME BACK KOTTER" and nothing like a supermodel.
But media images have the power to warp people's perceptions.
A good example was in the movie "Jungle Fever" when the white men told Tonya Ferrell that she looked like Diana Ross.
Now, Tonya's beauty is TOTALLY different from Ross's---but because Ross was a similar color and had been HYPED and celebrated, these white men saw any dark brown black woman with long hair as being Diana Ross.
Dark women like Lauryn Hill, Naomi Campbell and Tweet may be "too sculptured" and "prissy"....but they are making it possible for chocolate women to now be considered as "beautiful" and as "sex symbols".
And eventually, once we get people over their fear of the dark skin, it will go a step further.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 975
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 09:06 pm: |
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***First of all....celebrities are rarely expected to be just "average". Not even when they're white.***
When I say average, I mean the majority (nine out of ten), not average looking. I completely expect that the authentic black women who *WILL* represent us in the future will be just as beautiful as the women we have now. In fact, I think they'll be even more beautiful -- of course I'm a little biased.lol
PS, I apologise for taking you the wrong way.
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 976
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 09:13 pm: |
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Your 9:03 post makes a lot of sense....
I guess I'm an impatient one (lol).. but I understand. |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2411
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 09:53 pm: |
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LOL!!!
Tonya, you are crazy
I wish you were here to have tea with me and talk shit about people.
It's so boring on the ranch tonight. I was supposed to go on a date with a doctor I met, but I chickened out.
He's black, but biracial. And he knows I'm a writer, but not that I'm "Kola Boof"--evil African maneater from Sudan. LOL. He's really cute and sexy, but I'm just so...
blah
I don't know how to be with a man other than Thomas.
I'm so pathetic.
I'd rather sit here in the tumbleweeds and have tea by my lonesome.
Me, the crickets and the moon.
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Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 977
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 10:20 pm: |
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Final clarification:
When I say average, I mean the majority (nine out of ten), in terms of skin color, racial features, hair texture, ect.. not average looking....
For example, not all white women look like Cindy Crawford, but the majority of them have white skin, European features, and fine textured hair, as she does. But, of course, the average white women is nowhere near as beautiful as Cindy; and, no, I don't expect anything different for us -- in fact, I'm looking forward to the day when we respond the exact same way.. no more, no less.
Okay... that really is the last word, for me.. (lol).
Tonya |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 978
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 10:25 pm: |
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DON'T TELL HIM WHO YOU ARE UNTIL YOU GET THE RING...... SISTAH....
(ROTFLMAO!)
I'm just messin with you, girl (lol)...
Tonya |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2413
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 10:41 pm: |
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Are you kidding? I couldn't get married.
I missed the boat.
LOL
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2414
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 10:43 pm: |
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...especially after my autobiography comes out.
No man is going to want to marry me. 
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Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 151
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 06:51 pm: |
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Actually, Whoopi REJECTED being referred to as "African-American" (which is her RIGHT)! Like MOST Jamicians she claimed she was Jewish, Irish, African, Indian, etc, etc descended!
My mother was telling me one time how Whoopi did not consider herself "Black" at all! She felt that "Black" didn't represent her FULL hertiage.........(only the African part).
Also never heard this about Morgan Freeman............
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2442
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 06:59 pm: |
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Excuse me, AfroAmerican.
You didn't read the article.
I WAS THERE.
Whoopi did not like being called "African" and said emphatically that she was not "African".
You can read all about it in her autobiography.
She wanted to be called "American".
And the woman was born Karen Johnson in New York City. What are you talking about?
Morgan Freeman made the same rejection, and quite loudly, that his roots were in Alabama and that he wasn't no "African".
I was the one doing the CONFRONTING.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2443
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 06:59 pm: |
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I stated that you could Plop Whoopi and Morgan down on any dirt road in Africa....and the natives would come up and ask them for directions.
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Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 255
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 07:12 pm: |
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That's funny. I should remember that quote, Kola.
But what you two are discussing is what I've been arguing all along. I can look in the mirror and think "it's POSSIBLE that I have white/other blood". But there's NO DENYING that I DEFINITELY have African blood, so it would be silly of me to try to point out everything else that I MAY have, while putting down what's EVIDENT.
You should have told them that if they want to know if they have African roots, LOOK IN THE MIRROR. No dna test necessary. |
Renata
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Renata
Post Number: 256
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 07:14 pm: |
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I never did get why she grabbed a jewish name. |
Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 153
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 07:56 pm: |
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I have NO idea why she changed her name!
I read, never read her autobiograghy, that she was a New Yorker of West Indian descendent (rumor mill says Jamician). There are TONS and TONS of Jamician settlements in New York City! This is what makes her being West Indian so believable. If i would have read she was born in Mississppi I might have doubted the truth behind this.
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2444
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 10:51 pm: |
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Did you notice in the newspaper article how they made me out to be the evil bitch?
http://entertainment.myway.com/celebgossip/pgsix/id/07_25_2003_6.html
I was so mad with Whoopi and Morgan, I could have killed them!
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Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2445
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 10:52 pm: |
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Whoopi is the daughter of Black American parents.
She is not a West Indian.
Cicely Tyson, born in N.Y., is a Jamaican.
So is Sheryl Lee Ralph.
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Africanqueen
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Africanqueen
Post Number: 347
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 06, 2005 - 01:00 am: |
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All I can say about Whoopiz iz that she make life seem so easy and fun for black people... I love her to death . |
Kola
Moderator
Username: Kola
Post Number: 2446
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 06, 2005 - 01:42 am: |
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I love Whoopi, too AQueen.
We eventually laughed things off.
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Afroamerican
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Afroamerican
Post Number: 155
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 06, 2005 - 01:14 pm: |
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hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
They are African DESCENDED, but not "African"!
I think that is a more CORRECT way to put it!
_________________________________________
Just like I tell people Vin Diseal and Jennifer Beal are 1 generation descendants of AAs but they are not "Black Americans".
There's a HUGE, HUGE difference from having the BLOOD of a group of people and actually being RAISED IN THAT particular community/household/environment! |
Mulatto^Diplomat
Unregistered guest
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 12:14 pm: |
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Wow, talking about mulattos again I see.
Afroamerican:
Thats because Jennifer Beals is a mulatta.
Here is 2 pretty African women that AA's SHOULD claim and feel 'connected' too.
http://www.voiceofafricaradio.com/images/faces-2005-wk41-naija_actress-1.jpg
http://www.voiceofafricaradio.com/images/faces-2005-wk4-4.jpg |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 12:32 pm: |
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I think that Afroamerican already stated that Jennifer Beals is not Black.
Afroamerican: Just like I tell people Vin Diseal and Jennifer Beal are 1 generation descendants of AAs but they are not "Black Americans". |
Tonya
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Tonya
Post Number: 1011
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 12:38 pm: |
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Now, MD.. that's exactly what I'm talking about!
You are absolutely right -- those are precisely the kind of women we should be claiming and feel connected to, especially the younger women in the second photo; she should be what's "in" right now, as far as we're concerned. How hard is it to appreciate that kind of beauty... I mean.. really? And the thing about it is, she looks so much like the many beautiful young women I see everyday, as I walk the streets here in Philly. And that's not to say that she looks average; it goes to show that our young girls nowadays are hot! So for the life of me, I can't figure out why young women who look like her are not right there alongside the white, Asian, Latina, Italian, and Mullatto females who grace our magazines, Movies, televisions ect.. They are just as beautiful.
Tonya |
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