AALBC.com's Thumper's Corner Discussion Board: Kola, where did Black self-hate begin?
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Zuriburi First Time Poster Username: Zuriburi Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2005 Rating: N/A Votes: 0 (Vote!)

Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 03:48 pm: |

Hi Kola and board members.
I'm new at posting but I've been a fan of Kola
Boof's books (wonderful writter) and this board
for a while. I don't know if this question has
ever been put forth for discussion before, if so
forgive, but it seems that self hatred amongst
black people did not start with the introduction
of of white supremist ideology. So then
where/how and why did it start? I would
appreciate all of your input, but I'm really
interested in reading Kola's thoughts. Thanks.
Blaklioness
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Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 07:22 pm: |

Why do you think it preceeded white supremacy?
Zuriburi
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 07:34 am: |

I might be mistaken, but weren't Arabs trying to distance themselves from their African ancestry before this white supremist ideology sprang from Europe?
Kola
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 11:48 am: |

Yes, that's true about the White Arabs starting White Supremacist ideology in year 700.
Forcing the Arabic language "Swahili" on the East Africans was the beginning of that.
As for your general question--I really don't know.
THE MOORS were completely decimated by "intermarriage"--they are now extinct. And they were the MOST similar to us today as far as self-hatred.
Ditto the original Egyptians.
So I don't know.
Kola
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 11:49 am: |

Thanks so much for buying and reading my books, Zuriburi. What a blessing.
Thanks for coming in and WELCOME.
Zuriburi
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 12:06 pm: |

Thanks Kola and Blacklioness for addressing this question.
I am so fascinated by this question. Board members please share your theories.
Some very smart people post on this board. I would appreciate any speculations.
This question haunts me.
Kola
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 12:12 pm: |

The best way to get responses...is to give your own OPINION of how it started. Then people can reply to that.
Blaklioness
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 12:37 pm: |

Zuriburi:
That's a million dollar question. Personally, I would imagine the cause is relevant only so far as it PERPETUATES and SUSTAINS the attitude. Otherwise, we need to get it together, or we're going to be cast off this planet.
Zuriburi
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 12:53 pm: |

I think that it may have been related to the already existing stratification found in some groups in Africa ie. class and/or gender. So a hierarchial oppressive culture was already in existence, possibly making us more receptive to yet another stratified group (ourselves). But this does not explain why we would except being rendered to the lowest rung.
I think though that there are more factors involved that I am unaware of.
Zuriburi
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 12:55 pm: |

I agree Blacklioness.
Blaklioness
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 01:15 pm: |

Some part of the root cause is religion...it at least explains why a lot of the problem PERSISTS because it's frequently used to keep us (especially women) in line for fear of going to "hell". Many of the religious books we follow today have been tampered with and changed over time. You ever heard of the Nicene Council (?)?
Zuriburi
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 03:10 pm: |

I had not actually considered the role that animist religions may have played in the transmission of white supremist ideologies onto many African populations. Since generally, animist beliefs accept all forms of life/and occurances as being the offspring/reflection of God. This explains why the outsiders were not immediatly rejected.
Another possibility. If the pale invaders did pocess military superiority then perhaps the only choice that the Africans had at that juncture was to 'jock for position' and become a part of a new system in which a new (and easily identifiable)hierarchal system would be introduced. One based Color. With the defeated group (the black skins) relagated to the bottom. The seeds of self hatred planted.
Zuriburi
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 03:11 pm: |

Blacklioness,
No I have never heard of Nicene Council.
What are they?
Roxie
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 04:23 pm: |

One of the best explainations come from my buddy KRS One:
Verse One:After seven years of rockin'How do you rate me?
Poorly or greatly?
Everybody seems to be goin' for their's lately
Yo mad heads be needin' money
So listen very close as I conduct this little studySee it's, funny to me, you can watch TV
And give up your life trying to be all you can be
In the Army
Not knowin' your history
You either fight and die or come back home in misery
Yo get with me, I deal with reality
Loosen your mind to the truth, and don't get mad at meNo politican can give you peace
If you trust Jesus, why do you vote for a beast?Emancipation is long over due
So overcome procrastination
Because freedom is within you
For some reason we think we're free
So we'll never beBecause we haven't recognized slavery
You're still a slave, look at how you behave
Debatin' on where and when and how and what Massa gave
You wanna know how we screwed up from the beginning?
We accepted our opressor's religion
So in the case of slavery it ain't hard
Because it's right in the eyes of THEIR God
Where is our God, the God that represents us?
The God that looks like me, the God that I can trust?
A God of peace and love, not mass hysteria
I don't want a God that blesses America
I could never really vote for the devil
Let me take you to a higher level...
Verse Two:Title, take the title from the Bible we can get there
Rip the title from off the front of the Bible, God don't live there
Too many inconsistencies, too many mysteriesPicture the Pope and the Vatican, laughing and drinking and singing and
Kissing me
I stand with God whether I'm paid or whether I'm cryin' broke
I like to ask these politicans would Jesus vote?The way we view God is a freakin' shame
Church is to blame
We trust God, but bomb Hussein
We simply lovin' the scripture
Same scripture that whipped 'cha
Sooner it'll hit 'cha
Religion's gettin' richer
With that European version of Christ made into a pictureOur society's gettin' sicker, and sicker, and sicker...Like liquor, we are God-Intoxicated
Not to the true God, but the one the government created
The same governments tellin' people to vote
I pray to God because the people have lost hope
You either vote for the mumps or the measels
Whether you vote for the lesser of two evils, you vote for evilPolitics and God are not equal
But the education if you don't guard, is really lethal
People have more respect for a holy book
Than they do for a cow on a meat hook
Belivers of Jesus be denouncing Satan on every level
But every Halloween they're dressin' like devilsI pray to you for the light you might give them
Mother make them know that you're livin' with themYou begin them and end them in silence
Frankly, if they knew you, they would understand violence
I pray to you for the Pope and the Vatican
Have mercy Mother, cause I know that you're mad at them
The White Jesus deceived us awhile ago
And Pope Julius the Second paid Michaelangelo
I know this happened in 1519 yet
This is the image we can't seem to forget
Vote for God, don't vote for the Devil
Let me take you to a higher level...
From "Return of the Boom Bap". (great stuff.)
Kola
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 04:42 pm: |

Zuriburi,
You make some very good points about the animist cultures.
Although in many cases--they were not defeated.
But when they were--the White man did employ many color-based hierarchys, which under the 1400's had their own name "Machaviellian" for the famous psychological game used.
The REAL truth is
---that Africa did not become "continentally affected by Self-hate" until the last 25 years via MEDIA.
And there's overwhelming documentation to back that up.
For instance, just 20 years ago, most of the women in CONGO were still putting their babies in the sun...to get darker.
The standard of Beauty throughout most of the continent--25 years ago---was wholly based on deep chocolate skin, goddessa "lips" and high cheekbones, tribal markings and of course NAPPY hair.
THE CITIES is where the deep self-hate began to take a "psychotic form" and become nationalistic with White Supremacist tendacies.
And via MEDIA (billboards, candy wrappers, stamps, t.v.)....is how these IMAGES began taking hold.
70% of Africans are RURAL. And the majority do not see "Whiteness"...as a good thing.
Africanqueen
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 05:05 pm: |

I've heard that it's says in the Bible that there was 3 boys whom were asked of their father to do something, but one boy didn't do as he was told so he was turned black and his generation too. This is not exactly what it says, but very similar, but I really find it "unfair" because people should be ackowledged equally and suffer equally. God created human beings, he did not create sin.
Kola
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 05:07 pm: |

Yes, the story of HAM from the BIBLE.
But that came along with the White Europeans really. They changed so much of the Hebrew scripture.
QUEEN, thanks for supporting me by posting on my board.
Africanqueen
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 05:19 pm: |

Kola,
You're very welcome . Shukren (thank you) for always being there for me too :D.
Blaklioness
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 05:58 pm: |

Zuriburi:
Ok...excuse my profound ignorance of all the nitty gritty details, but apparently it was like a meeting of minds to decide on rules for the church. Somewhere in there, I was told, the bible and other religious documents were tampered with. Here's a site you can read for some information:
http://ecumenical-council.iqnaut.net/
I'm mentioning it because it could possibly be a piece of the puzzle.
Roxie
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 10:44 pm: |

-- "thanks for supporting me by posting on my board."--
WHAT?!
Hey Kola, [*jumps around,waves arms in air*] What about me?
I may be from a lost people , but I not LOST. Let me be your daughter again!
Blaklioness
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 11:04 pm: |

She so kool, she cold ain't she?! LOL!!
Kola
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 11:36 pm: |

Hi Roxie and EVERYONE!
Thank you so much for posting.
I have 2 problems running this board.
#1--I'm so busy writing my books (and missing deadlines) that I don't have time to search out and post new TOPICS.
#2--I don't have a lot of time to recruit new posters and many of my attempts have flopped.
So that's why I THANK YOU for visiting and keeping "posts" going while I'm away.
I have 2 computers side by side---so while working, I try to peek in and say something.
Roxie
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 05:33 am: |

[*puts face in hands from embarrasement over behavior in last post*]
Roxie
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 06:55 am: |

"recruit"?
If they are willing to seek you, they should get up and FIND YOU. You gave them the message, it's their turn to resond and act upon it as they wish.
That way you know your TRUE supporters. ;)
Blaklioness
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 12:27 pm: |

Blaklioness hopes these "recruiting" techniques won't cause KB to lose her credibility in her crucial work with BW on this planet. ;)
Zuriburi
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 01:52 pm: |

Guys, thanks for all the input.
Kola, it is more clear to me now from reading your response re: self hate amongst most Africans being a relatively recent phenomenon, that this new wavw at least is primarly resulting from dominant media.
I guess my real quiry was 'how did this rejection of blackness occur in Arabs' prior to media institutions.My best guess is that the white half brought their supremist mentality with them (there is no reason not to believe that white supremist thought had not already existed in the minds of caucasians prior to it being developed and studied in europe academia. It had to start somewhere)
Going back even further than that ,perhaps Dr. Francis Welsing (although I am not a fan) was right. Maybe whites were chased out of Africa causing eternal psycological dysfunction and delusions of grandeur. HA! ( I know that's a stretch)
What y'all think.
Zuriburi
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 01:53 pm: |

Thanks for the link Blacklioness
Kola
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 03:30 pm: |

Zuriburi,
Human beings tend to believe that what is most beautiful...is the familiar. Their own reflection, their own families and relatives become the standard of what is NORMAL.
Whites did what any humans do. When they went to new places---they inserted THEIR STANDARD and they DEMANDED IT, because they were conquerers and they wanted to HELP
There is no WHITE HALF to "Arabs". 95% of the Arabs in this world are WHITE. The 5% of Arabs who are not---are the product of rape, slavery and chattel religious sex. The Arabs love their whiteness, because it is familiar and normal to them---blackness is not.
There are only 38 million Black Americans.
There are 830 million Africans in Africa. 70% of those people live in RURAL settings and are not exposed to "white people" at all. To their eyes---seeing white people is like seeing martians---and they welcome whites with a mixture of fear and pity.
In the URBAN cities of African countries, is where we are beginning to see a STRONG identification with the Colonialist Standards and the IMPORTED American and Black American standards of "beauty and status". You now have Africans who want to "pass" as Black Americans....but this phenomenon is almost completely relegated to...the YOUTH at this moment.
And it has been noticed that Black Americans set the standard for ALL Blacks worldwide---because only they have adequate access to the media.
So if Black Americans wish to be light skinned with blond hair and marry white----then it becomes the goal of the Urban Africans who watch and imitate everything they do.
Hence the recent news reports of the clothing store in West Africa called "NIGGERS"----because a town of Mali men had been idolizing the music videos they watch at the Rec Hall and wanted to honor their idols with a store called "Niggers".
Self-hate/colorism is a DISEASE that spreads, and that's what it's doing.
It doesn't MATTER how it came to be---it's obvious that it comes from one Group dominating and imposing its "Normalness" on another group. Which is HUMAN.
Afroamerican
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 03:36 pm: |

Honestly, if Ghania can BAN Nigerian movies (as I've heard they've tried to do) then why can't they ban Rap videos????
Seems simple enough!
And unlike a few Black American record producers and rappers they definetly (the African youth) are not getting much out hip hop videos.
Kola
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 03:41 pm: |

No, they banned "The Color Purple" in most African countries---causing women to travel across borders to see it.
MEN run the societies and decide what is to be banned and not accepted.
Naked white women dancing with Black American rappers are not going to be banned, because they see no harm in it. If anything---it's a WARNING to African women.
"Somebody else wants me bitch! So serve your master!"
Zuriburi
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 04:27 pm: |

Point taken Kola.
I thought that all Arabs had relatively recent African ancestry.
Zuriburi
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 04:34 pm: |

Guess I was wrong.
Just to clarify. When you say that the overwhelming majority of Arabs are white do you mean that they have breeded what ever black ancestry that they may have out of them?
Kola_boof
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 05:24 pm: |

Hi Zuriburi,
YES...over thousands of years, they have done just what Black Americans are doing today.
Marrying as white as they can and creating social worship of "whiteness"----for instance, I was raised that ALLAH loves white people more, because they're cleaner.
We are all raised that way in Arabic society.
We are raised to "take pity" on those who are still black and have not EVOLVED.
Osama Bin Laden is a "dark" Arab, although he is white.
This is what REAL true Arabs look like:
For instance:
Although Sophia Loren is WHITE.
She is NOT what real true white people
look like. Right?
The ancient GREEKS were not White people.
Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 05:48 pm: |

*********Whites did what any humans do. When they went to new places---they inserted THEIR STANDARD and they DEMANDED IT, because they were conquerers...
It doesn't MATTER how it came to be---it's obvious that it comes from one Group dominating and imposing its "Normalness" on another group. Which is HUMAN.*********
Since they did what is normal ("human"), they won, we lost, and we're too spineless to begin fighting back, why are we blaming them? They're doing what they're suppose to, we're not -- we're too petrified. Shouldn't we be blaming us - I mean, seriously blaming us.... Shouldn't we shoulder all of the blame?
Tonya
Kola_boof
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 06:01 pm: |

Well, Tonya....as you've noticed....."I" have been doing what any human mother would do as well, and look at the opposition and scorn I receive from blacks.
Everything that White people do...is for THEIR CHILDREN and the benefit and welfare of their children.
And black people are the opposite, because they've been niggerized.
Everything blacks do, including giving birth, is to provide a back up workerbee mass to ENFORCE the white man's house and to keep him on top.
That's what integration in this country is all about.
Shame that blacks didn't listen to Zora Neale Hurston.
Tonya
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 06:43 pm: |

Just like the abused child, we're "looking for love in all the wrong places."
But even the abused child eventually becomes an adult and is held responsible for his/her actions.
We're too old for this shit!
Tonya
Roxie
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 06:53 pm: |

--Maybe whites were chased out of Africa causing eternal psycological dysfunction and delusions of grandeur. HA! ( I know that's a stretch)
What y'all think.--
I could believe it.
Kola
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 07:22 pm: |

Well, Roxie
...the whites are the descendents of many Africans who wandered, just like all the other races are. The atmosphere in Europe and Scandinavia made them into Aryans.
But they're no more evil or wrongheaded than African people.
They're human and because they had to compete with the Neanderthal species to occupy Europe---and did it so well that they wiped the Neanderthal species off the planet....they are superior strategists and are invader-oriented.
But Africans are no different, morally...accept Africans are the motherseed, the original, and therefore--not as aggressive or cunning...and are more natural people.
Africanqueen
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 10:24 pm: |

LOL Kola, "these fuckers" . How funny :D. I know that Sudanese Arabs can pass for African Americans in America...
I've never really seen or known and white Sudanese Arabs unless it's because I haven't really lived there.
Africanqueen
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 10:25 pm: |

any*
Kola
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Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 11:50 pm: |

There's LOTS of White Sudanese Arabs. They used to be on t.v. all the time in America.
But now that there's genocide, war etc.---the Sudan gov. puts only Black Arabs in view of the media.
Bashir, the Pres. is "technically" black (with a White Arab wife)...but the parliament is WHITE---and the Arab nations like Egypt and Jordan and Syria RULE SUDAN like a puppet.
And only the Black "Arab" Sudanese could pass for Black Americans.
The true Africans (Nubians, Cushite tribes) don't look anything like Americans and are mostly charcoal beautiful like my mother was.
Anunaki3600
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Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 04:34 am: |

Don't forget that the Royal family and the current ruler of Kuwait is "dark skinned black arab". Also note that Saudi Arabia means "Black Arabia". White Arabs came from the North, for example, when Saladin conquered and took back Jerusalem from the crusaders came from Northern Iraq and was a Kurd, who don't even claim to be Arabs but are Muslims. Being an ARAB is defining someone who speaks the Arabic language and is not an ethnic definition. Thus we have white blond arabs to dark black arabs because they all speak the arabic language but they have different ethnic identity for example Bosnian are blond whites while you have dark black sudanese both speak arabic.
Kola
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Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 04:58 am: |

Yeah, but that's only "technical" Annunaki.
I'm telling people HOW the Arabs themselves see things.
And if you're "black" and speak Arabic....you are seen as LESS ARAB by all Arabs, both White and Black,
...because Arabic, unlike Hebrew, is not an African language. And neither is Swahili, the Arabic slave language.
But Hebrew is a Cushitic African language.
So it's sort of like claiming that you're American. But the White American will ALWAYS truly define what is American....because everyone else is made in his white image.
Kola
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Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 04:59 am: |

Of course,
No one in Africa speaks "Hebrew" languages anymore.
Those blacks left with MOSES.
Anunaki3600
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Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 06:45 am: |

I agree with you Kola. In fact when I was in college in L.A., the Lebanese arab students considered themselves as French because they were lighter than arabs from Egypt or Yemen and were more westernized. The Swahili (Kiswahili)is a relatively new language made up from English, Portugese, Indian, Arabic, and African (Bantu) languages along the East African Coast which is now spoken in Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, Rwanda, Burindi, DRC, Congo, etc. Since it is evolving, the majority of the new words in-corporated into the language these days are Bantu and English words. Another thing, don't the few Falashas left in Ethiopia speak, read and write some ancient Hebrew?
Roxie
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 03:20 pm: |

--"But the White American will ALWAYS truly define what is American"--
Obviously that's why black american tourists are mistaken for locals when traveling abroad. But since Americans aren't taken too kindly in some places ,I hope to use that to my advantage!
Aaron Sailor
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Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 05:24 pm: |

Black self-hate started in the Western world with the European Colonization of Africa. It started when whites started selling and transporting slaves in the new world. Now African tribes have always fought amongst eachother for thousands of years. The captors they would take as slaves. But slavery in Africa was much diffrent than slavery in Europe. In Africa slavery was a form of indentured servitude. Where the slave could work towards their freedom. Not only that the slaves were considered family, and were treated with alot of respect. Now, the Arabs saw themselves as different because they looked diffrent. European slavery was based solely on skin color and race. In the eyes of the Europeans black no matter what color they were was considered slaves. The Arabs also sold blacks into slavery and black sold Arabs into slavery. That had been going on for thousands of years.
shyfox
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Posted on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 05:43 pm: |

Black self hate started where all other evil started - with Satan. He is the father of all lies and a murderer from the beginning. The scriptures tell us that to hate your brother is to murder him. John 3:15. We have only to look at what is going on around us to see that this is true. Increasing rates of HIV/AIDS; high rates of illegitimacy; high incarceration rates; high unemployment; you name it-these are all symptoms of the disease of black self hate. I believe that all of these problems can be solved if we cared enough about ourselves, each other, and our commnities. We don't and as a result our people are dying. This is serious folks.
Anonymous

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Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 08:47 pm: |

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Africanqueen
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Username: Africanqueen
Post Number: 416
Registered: 02-2005

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Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 09:59 pm: |

shyfox,
I'd like to hear more of that... it's all so true, but what do you think people like me can do to change that? Please keep speaking up !
Renata
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Username: Renata
Post Number: 844
Registered: 08-2005

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Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 07:55 pm: |

I missed you, Africanqueen! Stay around more than you do!
Of course, you probably have a more active life than a lot of us here, so.....
Just wanted you to know I was wondering whatever happened to you!
Africanqueen
"Cyniquian" Level Poster
Username: Africanqueen
Post Number: 417
Registered: 02-2005

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Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 09:27 pm: |

Hi Renata! It's good to hear someone's been missing me around here . I missed you too girl and I'm sorry I haven't been here much but I have been so busy with school.. I'm doing my teaching internship plus taking other classes. Just trying to graduate by this May and move on to the next thing that may come my way in life. So yeah, that is what's been up with me.
Misty
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Username: Misty
Post Number: 64
Registered: 02-2006

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Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 10:17 pm: |

"Yes, that's true about the White Arabs starting White Supremacist ideology in year 700.
Forcing the Arabic language "Swahili" on the East Africans was the beginning of that.
As for your general question--I really don't know.
THE MOORS were completely decimated by "intermarriage"--they are now extinct. And they were the MOST similar to us today as far as self-hatred.
Ditto the original Egyptians.
So I don't know. "
Kola, how are we to be sure that the fact that the moors and black egyptians mixed and intermarried wiht different cultures is proof of their self hated?
the reaosn i ahve to question this is becaus during this time, the moors and the black egyptians were at the top and were the standard looked up to by all of the world unlike today where the standard that's looked up to is white. your talking about a time when culturers were physically painting their children (both girls and boys) darker because darkness was the standard of beauty in this age. During this time black gods were being worshipped while the devil was seen as white in many different cultures such as in the philippines, in india and also in cetain african. In the philippeans, the people would actually compress their childrens faces to make their noses flatter better. This was during the time that africans ruled in the philippeans. It's quite the opposite now where most dark culturres would rather bleach their skin and stay out of the sun.
It was the opposite back then which is why i doubt that they mixed with other cultures due to thier self hatred. I think people mixed more then than they do now simply because there was no clear definition of race back then like there is now so people didn't think about race as much as they do now. Skin color wasn't as important then as it is now.
So, Kola, i think that what you say applies more to today since whites are now at the top most people all over tyhe world see them as the ideal simply because they have the power.
I think a lot of mixed relationships today are formed due to hatyred of ones own race...but then there are also those that aren't based on self hatred. So, not even today can we be so quick to assume that because someone is married outside their race they have self hatred issues...although it's very likely.
There are also several people who marry within their race who have self hatred issues. i've seen couples where both ther man and the woman have dark skin but they still exhibit self hate issues and they pass these issues onto their children. Most self hatred actually comes from monoracial relationships since they represent the majority of relationships. The precwentage of mixed race couples to monoracial couples is very low.

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