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Nadine Holden
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Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 10:23 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Yvette,

I was combing through some threads and found this from MARCH of this year.

It's Kola explaining to you in great detail exactly what "authentic blackness" is. You keep saying that you want someone to explain it to you.

I mean--sister breaks it aaaalll the way down.

I can't believe you missed this.



KOLA BOOF: March, 2005 Post

__________________


LOL

Yvette, I met Halle. She's DEFINITELY "black-identified" and I really like her as a person.

What is FULL BLACK?

Well....for people like me and Nyibol who come from Africa....where there is no ONE DROP RULE.....it just means that you are "visibly" one of us.

For instance, my father was a White Arab Egyptian---but unless you get in my scalp (the roots)---I look ALL BLACK, so I would be considered "black" if I wanted to.....but in Sudan, could also claim "Arab", which I would never do.

_____________________

Authentically Black--the STANDARD.

Doesn't matter what country or tribe---but there is an Aesthetic to BLACK looks, whether it's a blue black Nubian....or a light brown Ibo....or a "red clay" Oromo...or a "yam yellow" Xosha. They are all FULL BLACK or "authentic" as we say.

Many Black Americans who are "MIXED"----are also considered FULL BLACK by African standards.

Such as...India Arie, Don Cheadle, Chris Rock, Angela Bassett, Red Foxx, Gladys Knight, Aretha Franklin, Michael Jordan, Toni Morrison, T-Boz from TLC.

But NOT Halle Berry or Africa's own Thandie Newton (who is considered African, but not "black") or even "Chili" from TLC.

**Notice that Africans would consider yellow-skinned T-BOZ a "FULL BLACK"---but brown skinned "Chili" a "Mixed Black".

___________

BEFORE COLONIALISM and INVASION....

The fact remains that in Africa, as Nyibol pointed out on another thread-----long before the White and Arab men enslaved/colonized us------Black People had their OWN STANDARD of "race" (race meaning family) that was linked directly to our African colors and features, all of which come from a MOTHERSEED--the first "race"---the NILOTICS.

The Nilotics are the "parents" of..."The Negroes", which is our third race (after the "Pygmy" race).

NILOTICS are (a) Charcoal (b) very tall (c) have thin features--skinny nose, full lips, high cheekbones (d) have African Hair, but in some cases, "stick-straight" hair.

NEGROES are (a)Black Chocolate (b)muscular (c)have broad, thick features (d) *female Negro is world famous for Large, High shapely Rear-End. (E) ALWAYS have "African Hair".

To be "BLACK" or "AFRICAN"----You must be BORN FROM an indigenous "tribe" (Black Americans are the BLOOD of 150 tribes), you must have a CLAN NAME (ie. Hausa, Nilotic (Nubian or Cushite),Yoruban, Bantu), you must have
"The Proof" (African Hair, "nappy")----and your skin MUST BE visibly of the African shades, not "mixed".

CHARCOAL (the Nilotic original:peoples of the Nile River)....
Nubians, Rural Ethiopians, West Kenyans and Cushites (Dinka, Nuer, Oromo, Mandan, Shilluk).

BLUE BLACK...Congolese, Gambians, Senegalese, Ivory Coast

*BLACK CHOCOLATE (The Continental Majority)....ALL OVER THE PLACE

CHOCOLATE FUDGE....Nigerians, Ghanians

DEFINITE BROWN.....East Kenyans, the Black Egyptian cattle people

Wet Wood Brown.....Southern Africans

Peanut Butter Brown....(the Ibo people, Nigeria)

LIGHT BROWN....(Eritreans, Ethiopians, Somalis)

RED CLAY.....("some" OROMO people are Red, some are Charcoal)

YAM YELLOW (think Toni Morrison and Redd Foxx, the rarest) (some Xhosha and Zulu)

Black American Scholars will often try to claim that....IN AFRICA, blacks come in all colors and textures......but that's a LIE. The truth is, we have many nations in the North where invaders have created Mulatto Mixed Race populations (Moroccco, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt)-----we do not socialize or mix and they do not consider themselves "black or African"--unless they're in America or trying to borrow money from rich Black Americans.

**Yam Yellow Africans have Negro features and African hair. They are NOT mixed and can only be found in the SOUTHERN African nations like Botswana, South Africa and Namibia---but they are RARE.

In Ethiopia and Somalia (two Blue Black nations), there is a RULING CLASS of MIXED RACE dark brown clans, mostly congregated in their Capital Cities---notice Addis Ababba. These people are usually my color but with straight hair and Italian or Asiastic features---notice the Ethiopian Track Runners who recently won the Marathon (they were blue black Ethiopians with nappy hair, skinny Nilotic facial features and that is what the vast MAJORITY of Ethiopians and Somali look like, but the MEDIA always focuses on the light mixed race brown ones).

A long, long Face and a large forehead is the standard look of a NILOTIC African--especially in Ethiopia and Somalia and Eritrea and Kenya.

The Mixed Race Ethiopians and Somalis are NOT "full black" and usually don't associate with "Pure Ethiopians, Somalis"....just ask Nurudin Farah.
___________

WHY IT MATTERS....

As the World Media is now trying to capitalize on our self-hatred and ENCOURAGE us that it's "better" to breed....AWAY....from our origins and our place of "Knowing"......many Blacks, worldwide, are being Ultra-sensitive to the fact that we are being represented by a Mulatto/Mixed BUFFER RACE that doesn't really reflect "our humanity" and especially not our "total experience".

This is like going to the campus at SPELMAN and seeing a "Black Women's Conference"----only to notice that every single black woman on the panel is yellow, red and light brown (which is usually the case) with a Kinte cloth thrown over her shoulder. All my life in the U.S.---I have seen this----where "dark skinned" males are allowed to represent BLACK PEOPLE, but not dark skinned women.

MOST Black American women are still darker than a paper bag and have African hair----but in the Media, the vast majority of images of Black American women are represented by YELLOW or Light Brown women, very often Bi-racial and Mixed Race.

From Johnetta B. Cole to Julianne Mulveaux...to Halle Berry.....to news anchors like Carole Simpson....to the WIVES of most black men who "married black"......there is OVER-representation of Light Skinned women.

And that is....racist.

As the reality of "colorism" continues to be an emerging TOPIC/ISSUE and as those who have traditionally suffered the most from it---dark skinned people ("authentic" blacks)---their is a groundswell of rage and accumulated hurts, injustices that is forming an ANALYSIS of just....who IS us.....and who is not.

Complicating this analysis is the fact that some mixed people, ie. Malcolm X (my hero), Barack Obama and Julianne Mulveaux (I love her!).....are BLACKER than many "authentic" black folks....ie. Clarence Thomas, Wesley Snipes and Montel Williams.

Race and Color.....DO MATTER....because it's been proven for a thousand years now that once people become mixed with White Blood---they wish to maintain that status and usually turn against the black origins, forced to shun it in order to keep their kids from "staining" the new skin. And as well....MANY dark black Africans are also reluctant to be bastardized by the blood of the invaders.
__________________

AFRICAN AMERICANS:

For Black Americans, this is a very painful and conflicting situation----because your slave master raised you that anything touched by you...is categorized WITH you, making it possible for someone who is clearly White (Mariah Carey) to be considered "black".

However, many of these "light skinned" blacks have gone to Europe and to Africa and to Brazil and found out that they are not considered "black" in those places. And in reality---genetically---they are NOT black.

Strangely...many Black Americans WANT/DESIRE to be "represented" by White-looking people......as if to say to their former owners, "SEE--we're just as white as you are!" So they fight hard to claim Vin Diesel and Mariah Carey as THEIR stock.

___________

Lastly.....WHY I use the term "Black American".

Because when Africans use the term "African-American", people often think we're talking about IMMIGRANT Africans instead of the people already here. So I use the term "Black American" for Clarity---but I certainly DO think of Black Americans (most of them) as AFRICAN people.

MOST still look African.





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Cynnique
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Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 11:34 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, Yvette, you have now been endoctrinated with the gospel according to Kola. As you successfully navigate through your day-to-day life as a person who is comfortable with being who you are, won't it be kinda hard to think back on Kola's dissertation and not utter 2 words: "so what?" (Forgive me, Father, I couldn't help it. I'm such a yellow cynner but at least I'm trying not to laugh.)
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Afroamerican
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Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 11:50 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm Black/Afro-American and one thing that bothers me about "authenic Blackness" is that it actually ENCOURAGES mixness!

It breeds the belief that is so prevelant everywhere from Brazil to the Dominican Republic: that anyone that can piont out ANY non-West African features are therefore "mixed". Just check out the "Hispanic" (but African looking) Sammy Sosa if you have any questions!http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/i/2/pro_sammysosa.jpg
_______________________

I also may add: I can normally pinpiont an African, especially an East African when I see one. And sure there are people who can confuse you, but for the most part I can can! And from what I've noticed most Africans absolutely hate this. I've had African people get break very, very nasty with me when I mentioned something as innocent as someone "looking African". "What does African looking mean?" they'll scream at you!

I've even tried (on messageboards) to question many African identified people how they can dare promote Black unity when there isn't even African unity on the continent! (they advoid the question and focus on Afro-Americans being as African as they are).I've also questioned Africans as to just HOW can Afro-Americans be 400 years removed from Africa and still be African people. This is like saying someone 1/32% Black (no matter how far removed that ancestry is) is still Black. A person 1/32 Black can not be as Black as me when I have to Black identified parents. And at the same time I can not be as African as a girl raised in Nigeria born/raised, eating Yuroba food, dressing Africa, with African parents and African history.


It seems people use the terms "Black" and "African" in many broad terms & to suit whatever purpose they have..............
_______________

I take it Africans don't want to be "African" unless Afro-Americans (especially ones that look like Beyonce) are considered the same as them! And Afro-Americans hestiate at being "Blacks" unless Halle Berry is consider just as Black as them. Both ideas are rubbish by the way!
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Slow Poke
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 12:12 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cynique--that was classiC!!!!!!! Bravo lady.

LMAO

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Cynnique
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 12:29 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What would I do without you, Slow Poke? You're one of the few folks left who I haven't alienated in some way. That's because you know enough not to take me too seriously. Love Ya! :-)
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Slow Poke
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 01:15 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HAHA!! Love you back!

4 making sense

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Tonya
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 01:06 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Afroamerican said:

I take it Africans don't want to be "African" unless Afro-Americans (especially ones that look like Beyonce) are considered the same as them! And Afro-Americans hestiate at being "Blacks" unless Halle Berry is consider just as Black as them. Both ideas are rubbish by the way!

I agree 100%

Tonya
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Yvettep
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 09:55 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When one of these authentic Blacks confronts me to turn in my Black Members Only Card, I guess I'll have to do it and look for another term to call myself. Until them I will continue to define myself for myself.

(Now, if I could only remember where I put that danged card...)
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Kola
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 11:00 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yvette, this is Kola.

I'm so glad I could drop in while you're here.

First of all---nobody ever asked you for a BLACK CARD.

You kept saying that no one has "explained" to you exactly what "authentic" means and how you wish somebody would just explain that-----so somebody, I think Jackie, pointed out that we've explained it to you several times.

You have every right to have your own standard, your own "way"---whatever---but nobody is going to waste their time asking you for a card to prove you're black.

What IS happening, is that new black sub-societies are forming as a direct result of the bastardization (physical breaking down) of black people in this country----and within these groups, the people are "rearranging" their strategies for survival and are creating new standards..usually based on "authenticity" and who will be LEFT OUT....so that they don't have to be the ones left out.

In other words, many "emotionally traumatized" Dark blacks are doing what the Mulatto clubs and groups did back in the old days---they're starting Jack and Jill Blue Vein towns, etc. where upon THEY are the thing most valued/accepted---not you. And because this society legitimizes and affirms you, but not them----then YOU become "a part" of the enemy, by default---mainly because----you haven't demanded that they be included.

Even in families...you see them starting to become ESTRANGED based on color...watch the teenagers...people drifting away and not sharing their lives anymore with the "Socially Desirable" ones.

Even without men in their lives, most "very dark" girls still manage to produce BABIES---and where do you think the mother's stories of heartbreak and "DISALLOWANCE" will channel to?

Many immigrant African women---LIKE ME---use terms like "authentic" to rear their sons as exactly how to see and separate "US" from "THEM". I do that on purpose...as a psychological tool to fight the American color system and also to wreak havoc on AAs for betraying their ancestors by embracing and idolizing their slave master.

In other words--I adopt a code of "Black Supremacy" as a shield against the much larger and more powerful "White supremacist" culture that we are immersed in. In this way, I provide "dreams", "standards" and "social values" for my sons that when applied---affirm blackness and black people and black cultures.

I don't EVER do this by telling them who to date, who to trust, etc. You simply AFFIRM and praise all things BLACK-----always, all the time. And you make little mention of any other thing.

I feel that I MUST do that for my sons and our family seed to survive in this country.

I came here ALONE, an adoptee---starting a new bloodline in a new country.

My bloodline will be AFRICAN, because I have a strong cultural racial identity that Black Americans do not have. I have languages, names, history, a full plethora of IDENTITY that I use to shape my son's "blackness". They are brainwashed from birth to believe that the center of the universe is their mother's heritage and that the core being of who they are will not be happy unless it is connected to their mother.

JUST LIKE WHITE CHILDREN.

As Gil Scott Heron said: "The revolution will not be televised."

And I personally see that the angriest, darkest among us are the ones not televised....and they are the ones who are most revolutionary in building a new "group".

Many black males and light people don't seem to notice that this is happening---but even in the music CDs of women like Jill Scott, Lauryn Hill, India Arie, Erykuh Badu---I see and hear the message so clearly. They're no different than Kola Boof...they're AT WAR with multiculturalism and they are inventing a new way of "thinking about" and "placing value on blackness". All of these women have produced songs about treasuring DARK SKIN...but not light skin.

I'm not giving you my opinion here--I'm sharing FACTS.

As the Ethiopians say: "Fathers matter not, mothers matter a lot."

And out of the lowest, most invisible and degraded of us....always comes the revolution and the change.

The novel "Paradise" dealt explicity with this very thing as a few hundred "blue blacks" started their own town in the novel----and end up killing anyone (Salma Hayek has been cast in Oprah's ABC miniseries of the film) who stands in the way of the town's "purity" and survival.

The film BELOVED showed a group of dark brown women.....exising "the baby demon" (high yellow Thandie Newton) from the landscape---literally wishing her away, because they were now ready to represent THEMSELVES.

Notice the very last line in the film:

"You your best thing Sethe...you are."


And much of what I have to say is felt by multitudes of BLACK women who don't know what to do or how to find a place for them to belong.

Out of that anxiety, comes change.

And eventually....more Authentic-ness. Which is the answer.

As more and more "biracial" and "mixed race" people are born into this country----and as more White Mothers REFUSE to have their kids be "only black"------you will find it harder and harder to get others to hang on to your "plantation standard" of identifying black people.

Authentic Black People are the future.





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Yvettep
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 11:19 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola, if you (or anyone else) believe that "reverse" brown bag tests will work any better than the original ones, then so be it.

I do not share your view of "authenticity" in Blackness because I feel efforts to make delineations around some as real and some as not will be plagued by difficulties--especially away from the extremes. Even the list of Black female singers you mentioned--they represent a continuum of skin shades and an amalgam of musical inspirations--not all of them "authentically" Black or even Black at all. And although they all champion "brown skin" they do so without putting anyone else's brown skin down.

I respect people's efforts to define themselves. If dark skinned Blacks must take back their own humanity on the backs of Blacks who are not as dark, then so be it. If this kind of "pay back" for years and years of lighter skinned Blacks dogging out darker skinned ones will make darker folks feel triumphant, then so be it. To me, this is only another divide and conquer effort that some of us are participating in whole heartedly.

And I guess you can guess what I think happens to a house divided...
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Kola
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 11:37 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yvette,

I am committed.


Anything...is better than this.



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Kola
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 11:38 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I love you, Yvette. I feel I know you.

But I can't live in your paradise.

I can't thrive there.

I need my own.


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Cynnique
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Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 12:58 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank goodness there will be someplace where Kola won't be around, yammering about "authentic" blackness. That will indeed be paradise. See ya there, Yvette
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Abm
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 01:05 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I guess I still have this basic question: If there is a point where were we no longer look African, why should and would we continue to call ourselves Black or African American?
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Kola
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 01:33 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Exactly, ABM.

But you have these people like _______---and remember YUKIO?---who are in denial about what we're really doing to ourselves. They want to EXPAND the definition of "blackness"---to ausage their guilt and nurture their self-hate.

It HARMS black people when you refuse to honor their identity.

It HARMS black people when others get the credit for their identity....and they who are truly black, are left to languish in "invisibility". Which is what people like Yvette are defending.









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Crystal
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 02:21 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know a family of light/bright/may as well be white black folks. My son was 7 years old before he knew they were black. I grew up with them and we spend a lot of time with them and it never occurred to me that he would think them other than black. They have all always identified themselves as black because their father was noticeably black and although their mother was white-looking her genealogy was black. They are black because in America you’re either one or the other and the one-drop rule made them black a long time ago and they still believe it and are proud of it.

The thing is ALL of them married dark spouses and their combined children run the usual gamut of our colors from yellow/red/light to dark – sometimes in the same immediate family.

One of them was recently called for jury duty. He is in law enforcement and usually doesn’t get put on any panels for criminal cases. This time they put him on a criminal jury. He lives in a predominately white area, the defendant was a young black man and there were no other black people on the panel so he figures the defendant’s attorney put him on the jury because he is black. Man, did my son and I have a good laugh over that one, whispering behind our hands “how could the attorney tell”. He would have been so upset if he had heard us!
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Cynnique
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 05:10 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting and charming story, Crystal. So glad you didn't choose to editorialize and preach. There's something to be said for allowing people to form their own opinions about the color issue.
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Crystal
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 05:45 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Cynique! Girl, you know I'm much too lazy to try to change anyone's opinion. HAHAHAHAHA!
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Roxie
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Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 09:24 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola: --As more and more "biracial" and "mixed race" people are born into this country----and as more White Mothers REFUSE to have their kids be "only black"------you will find it harder and harder to get others to hang on to your "plantation standard" of identifying black people.--

Well, What about the BLACK mothers of bi-racial children? Or the children of two dark-skinned people? (I recently met an Sri Lankan/AA couple on vacation). Whether children from that union look like mom or dad, they are still very black.

And something else I should point out: some bi-racials actually marry AGAINST the old color hierarchy. As I've observed from some of my light-skinned relatives and friends, they have all had children with darker skinned men and as a result, most of the children were born dark like their mother.
Kola you were born kinda dark because your mother was black, right? I'm not saying this is a typical result (some children are born light like the light parent) but this is one of the reasons you see dark-skinned AA's who have a quadroon somewhere down the ancestral line. It's like adding more black coffee to cafe'au lait.
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