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AALBC.com's Thumper's Corner Discussion Board » The Kool Room - Archive July 2005 to April 2006 » I need imput for a anthropology project...PLEASE! « Previous Next »

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Delores
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Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 10:06 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok,
some of you may already dislike me because of my heated opinions in some of these threads. but i found this website because I am doing a research project for a my "Language and Culture" class and I chose to do a project investigating terms like "mulatto", "redbone", "high yellow", and how they may be used as a way of defining people who fit between the "color scale" (which i define as the racist ideology that values people based on skin color). But i need imput on whether people think these words are negative,positive, or both depending on the circumstance.

So if you could please help, what does each word mean to you, and is it a bad thing. I am new to this board and don't know whether this is appopriate for this board. but any response would be greatly appreciated.
~Delores
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 10:12 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Welcome to the board, Delores...and please feel free to post anything you like.

But also respect other people's right to post their GUT OPINIONS as well....because this is Kola Boof's KOOL ROOM.

This is not a "politically correct" space.

And the Moderator here (me) is a Black African daughter of a White Arab man and a Blue Black Oromo woman who only claims "black".





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Delores
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Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 10:41 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oh i don't want people to be polite, i want their GUT OPINION, that is what counts. I respect everyones opinion even if I passionately disagree with them. I just know that some see these terms as insults, some as compliments depending on upbringing, background and location. Thanks for letting me do this. can you put your imput inplease kola?
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Yvette Perry
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Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 10:45 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, Delores--
Girl, don't mistake these loud-mouthed folks' heated discussions for dislike! LOL!

Here's my 2 cents:

I find that Black people's self-designated words to describe skin tones to generally be a good thing, more akin to the huge numbers of words to describe various shades of blue/green eye color or shaades of blond hair that some White Americans use to describe each other.

I didn't know for a long time (until I went to a high school where I wasn't the only Black person in my class) that I was "redboned" (or "red boned-ded" :-) ). I felt immense pride at this--NOT that it was "lighter" than "regular" Black folks (, KOLA. LOL!) But just that my particular skin tone had a name.

I realize I wouldn't have felt the same way, however, had my descriptor been (in my dear, but mis-illusioned late grandmother's term) "Africa's Blackest Child" or something else meant to be negative.

For me, it was always the context that defined whether one of these descriptive names was meant as negative or positive.

I have always had a problem, hoever, with terms that seem to have been applied from without: "mulatto" I especially dislike. (Although there is a guy who writes a very popular blog who calls himself "the Mulatto advocate.") My grandmother's people were "Creole" and were extremely color conscious and so my thoughts about this cannot be separated from a lot of the hatefulness and exclusionist stuff I saw going on in Louisiana and Houston.

Hope this is helpful! Good luck with your project!
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cynique
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Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 11:17 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've been called high-yellow, red-boned, and mulatto all my life and I am energized by the contempt implicit in these terms. I, personally, feel empowered by these labels because those who see me in terms of my color are reduced to letting their emotions supplant their intellect, and this taints their credibility. So, it's my contention that if a person doesn't want to be judged by their color, then they shouldn't judge another by theirs. Color is certainly not a priority of mine when it comes to me liking or disliking a person. There are much more important traits that figure into making someone appealing, and one of the traits I find appealing is the confidence that is required to be indifferent about rather than intimidated by my color. I cannot control how society views people, but as a individual, when it comes to color I treat people the way I want to be treated.
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ABM
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Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 12:45 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mulatto has always appeared to me to have a negative connotation, probably because it seems to almost inherently refer to slavery.

However, when I've heard the terms "high-yellow" and/or "redbone", I've been just as inclined to witness it expressed in a positive vein as I have in a negative one. I've particularly heard Black men use such terms to describe women whom they are attracted to.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 03:52 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My input, Delores....is that like most "black" African women, I feel betrayed by women like you.

You constantly advance your experiences, hardships and suffering as a "mulatto"---yet you call yourself a "Black woman", and then turn around......as you did on another thread, and totally dismiss and fail to acknowledge the experiences of AUTHENTIC black women--women who have expressed meanness, bitterness and unkindness TOWARDS YOU, because you are the creation of RACISM that makes them invisible by virtue of your benefitting from White Supremacy in the first place--in other words, experiences that are not only different from being in a Yellow Body with so called "good hair", but experiences that can ONLY BE voiced and given weight by those who actually experience what it's like to be black with African looks and African hair. To be AUTHENTIC black women.

And although I can intellectually understand your pain and even at times may want to protect you from it or extend love to you-----I simply can't.

And the reason I can't, is because while the whole Black American culture revolves around you (because you've achieved the "nigger nirvana dream" of being something OTHER than black).....those women in this society who are still filled with African blood and African looks and are "MY PEOPLE".....are made to be INVISIBLE--their experiences ignored and denied, so that you can shine IN THEIR PLACE....calling yourself "black" while never once doing a damned thing to truly represent or honor BLACKNESS.

In every facet of this society....I see exactly what I'm talking about--EVERYWHERE at EVERY moment.

It is quite reminiscent of attempting to do research on Black Women from 1619-1900.

Although 97% of Black Women in this country at that time were Dark Black West African women.....almost everything written about black women in that period is ABOUT "a mulatto" woman. VERY LITTLE is recorded to tell how black BLACK women lived and experienced life, other than---they were the raped mothers of these Mulatto children. No names or descriptions are given other than they were "African"---but then the whole life of the Mulatto daughter is glamorized and explored.....as though by virtue of White blood, she's some improvement over the African.

Women like yourself, DELORES, benefit greatly from White Supremacist culture and values----and as you did on another thread, they turn a BLIND EYE to the realities/circumstances of AUTHENTIC black women.

You say you're the daughter of two parents who were BOTH mixed race, the mother being the "dark" one and that your SOUL MATE is a "white man".

I wish you all the best....but I do not see why I'm supposed to sit around as a black woman giving a shit about someone who doesn't give a shit about me.

MOST "dark skinned" women in this country---I have noticed since I arrived more than 20 years ago----DEFER to your status as "light skinned girl", "mixed girl" and do not stand up for themselves, do not identify and name the brand of COLORISM that is rapidly bastardizing and wiping out a whole race and an entire culture.....all so that we can YOU in place of it.

I am not a Black American woman.

I don't give a shit WHAT they call you.

I, personally, call you a typically OVER-REPRESENTED result of Black people's Self-hate and their refusal to bring back into the world the African ancestors they CLAIM to love so goddamned much.

Contrary to what you said on the other thread----I've met Halle Berry (my children's father used to be employed by her) and I adore her and think she's a wonderful, sweet, very honorable "BLACK WOMAN". But that still doesn't change the fact that her image is USED in this society to dilute blackness and to reinforce Colorism by presenting the "mulatto version" of a black woman's beauty.....rather than affirming the beauty of black women themselves.

As hateful and as painful as this FISSURE is between me and "mixed" women....I refuse to be a part of anything that is used to ERASE "MY PEOPLE" and to dilute and to defile "MY PEOPLE".

And I owe you exactly what I owe your prototype and sister in White Supremacy,the White Bitch---not a goddamned thing.

I'm not your NEGRO SIDEKICK or your understanding demure "dark skinned" African sister whose job it is to tell you how pretty your nigger-slick hair is and how gorgeous your Spanish looks are and to OOOOH and AAAAWWWE all over your "offspring" with a White man.

I live to affirm ME....not you. So I don't blame you for affirming yourself.

Just like selfish, mixed race bitches like you have ALWAYS done.

I would rather my sons marry White women than to marry your privileaged, selfish "MIXED" ass.







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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 04:09 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And MY BIRTH MOTHER...really was "Africa's blackest child".

And I've never seen a woman in America who is more pure of heart, compassionate, graceful or more beautiful than MY BLACKEST CHILD AFRICAN MOTHER.

An "Authentic" Black Woman. Not a chocolate-skinned "mulatto" like me.



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cynique
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Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 06:40 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh-oh, sound like Kola's been hittin the sauce again. Watch out, Deloris, pictures may be on the way. And believe ol Mother Cynique when she warns you that Kola has some reeeeally ugly specimens to aid and abet her hate for light-skinned folks. eoooooou.
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Babygirl
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Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 06:50 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Words are exceptionally powerful and the context in which they're used will usually dictate how they are received.

As ABM noted, a man can call a woman "red-bone" with just the right degree of intonation to curl her toes and let her know there's some interest there. On the other hand, there are those who can wrangle just enough malice as they spit the very same word out of their mouths to make the hairs on that very same woman's neck stand on edge from the level of contempt that was spewed.
And it's no different if the word "red-boned" is replaced with the word "n*gg*r". Depends on whose saying it (what's up my n*gg*r!) or how they're saying it (you dirty n*gg*r!).

Personally, I find them all negative, but I'm not big on labels of any kind. Labels tend to seperate people more than they unite them, because the minute you need to label someone you've already focused more on your perceived differences than you potential likenesses.

And if this makes no sense, please forgive me. My new allergy meds done kicked in big time...
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Xhosa
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Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 07:03 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In South Africa we call the light skin people "coloured" or "mulatto".

They generally live in a separate society from the Blacks and a lot of what Kola is saying about the coloureds is true. They claim blackness when it will benefit them and they use their mixed status when it will benefit them the other way. They generally do believe that they're superior to the Black people. It's always been that way, which is why they don't care about the darker people's pain, and especially, do not care about a dark woman's pain. To them, she's the lowest and doesn't deserve anything.

Peter Abrams wrote a very honest portrait of his life as a light coloured man in South Africa. It's one of my favorite books, because he openly wrote about the difference of color and how separation occurs not by "labels" but by color difference itself.

This is a world where whiteness has been ordained and color dictates how you will be treated or accepted in that world. It's no coincidence that most black people in prison are overwhelmingly very dark skinned and African looking. Most black people in corporate America are high yellow to light brown. Most very dark skinned women are indeed portrayed as unattractive, evil people who no one, black or white, should choose to procreate with.

Labels have no bearing on those facts.

Since Nyibol has described herself as being the black color of Kola's birth mother, I would be interested to hear if she is as bitter as Kola is.




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Xosha
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Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 07:07 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We Xosha are light brown colored like peanut butter. We are generally considered "better than" Zulus by the Afrikkaners and Coloureds, because we are lighter.

I have honey-colored eyes and nappy hair and I am purely from Afrikka.

Do I want to be as dark as some Zulu people?

No. I think my coloring is more attractive, but I never admit that before.









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Jackie J
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Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 07:41 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Well I'd have to agree with ABM about the terms. When I went to Ghana for the first time, some of the Ghanian men called me an obruni, which means something like "white vulture woman" Man...I was so pissed... if I could speak Twi(pronounced tree) fluently I would have cussed( yeah cuh-ssed) all their asses out. That was culture shock for me.
I like what Kola says about "nigger nirvana dream". Case in point, recently I was at a poetry reading put on by the NAACP of Long Beach and I was sitting at the table with about 5 brothers, none of which I knew, but I was sitting at the last largest table and there weren't any more seats left. These brothers were all shades from light to dark chocolate... we were sitting by the entrance so we got a chance to see every one walk in. Mostly dark brown sistas walked in and the brothers had no reaction, they were silent, but when this "mariah carey" looking women came in, they all gawked and ooooh and awed. I heard them. I kid you not.
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Jackie J
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Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 08:20 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BtW-Delores...don't you think it's a bit self-absorbed and egotistical to think that you're disliked because of your opinion ?? There are several opinionated people on this board. Gimme a break
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Delores
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Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 09:30 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola,
You need to chill. I have never denied that "black" women, the truly darkskinned women face horrible degredation, or are otherwise ignored by our society. I think I said that in the other thread. And I don't try to pretend I am truly black, I know I could never have the full experience of being black because most people do not see me as black. That doesn't mean I have some sort of hate towards blacks or think I am better than them. I know that as a whole mulattos have been revered because of the racist ideology that has been created since slavery that white= perfect, mulatto= pretty, black= ugly (In fact this is what my project focuses on, why mulattos have recieved much better treatment in spite of the "one drop" ideology). I know that you will always have a hate for me because I am not TRULY black, but am used by society to represent black people. None of that is my fault. I never say I am "black", only "mixed" when asked and if question what mix I say it is none of their business. I don't try to represent myself as one race because I cannot. I only try to be me. So stop using women like me as your scapegoat for the anger you feel toward our racist society. This racist society says "the lighter the better" NOT ME. The racist society says that the experiences dark-skinned don't count NOT ME. Society says that black women should straighten their hair and dye it blonde to be more like white women, NOT ME. I'm sorry that my EXISTENCE brings you so much anger and hate. And it's funny that you're upset I'm with a white man, because if I were with a black man you'd say that I was stealing him from REAL BLACK woman. Guess a mixed girl don't stand a chance 'round here. :-)

And I do give a shit about you Kola, you seem like a remarkable person. Just because I don't believe the "black man shortage" has to do solely with the color of the women they run to, but also the emotinal baggage that many women bring to the table and contaminate a relationship with doesn't mean I don't give a shit about black women. It means I don't allow anyone to blame everything on everyone else but themselves. White supremacy is to blame for the motivation some black men feel to date white women. But so is the behavior and treatment of black men by SOME black women.

And thanks for the imput Kola, I am definitely quoting you for my project if that's ok. It shows how emotional the issue of mixed race has because of it's deep roots in slavery and domination.

I'll also let you guys know a little later what else I used to do my project. Anyways, I gotta get to work. Thanks everyone.
~Delores
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 10:39 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By all means. Please quote me.







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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 11:10 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And have them read this too:

http://poetwomen.50megs.com/whats_new.html

And make sure they get a copy of my autobiography over the summer for the FULL STORY.



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cynique
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Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 11:23 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jackie, don't you think you're a little "egotistical and self-absorbed" to post an unsolicited picture of yourself? heh-heh
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cynique
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Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 11:48 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Why recommend your biography, Kola Boof? Your post going off on Deloris reveals all anybody needs to know about you. It reflected the true you; raw and bitter and unhinged. Too bad you can't find some location to start your own nation where everything you yearn for would come into being, - The Land of Kola, a place where you could keep out all of those awful mixed people. Then you'd be happy.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 12:03 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Actually, BELOVED MOTHER.

I did not post a biography. You didn't read the poem, I gather.

And yes---my paradise would be just as "JUST" as the one you enjoy now.

God speed.

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Mahogany Anais
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 12:11 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Delores--

Mulatto: I view this as an antiquated term, and not positive because "tragic mulatto" (e.g., Peola in the original "Imitation of Life"; they changed her name to "Sarah Jane" in the 1959 version) always comes to mind. An older relative of mine refers to mixed people, male or female, as "peolas."

I also think of "mule" which I believe is related in terms of the word origins. Again, negative.

I generally use the word "mixed" or "biracial."

Red-bone, high-yellow: I have mixed reactions. I know people who use them purely as descriptors, which is innocent enough. My uncle used to greet my grandmother by saying, "Hey, Red!"

But sometimes a value or preference is assigned to them, and I find that problematic. Like someone else said, men use these terms approvingly. I tend to say "light-skinned", which I consider more neutral than red-bone or high-yellow.

Now, you must forgive the former schoolteacher in me, but I just can't take it anymore!!! ;-) The word you're looking for is iNput, not iMput. Not trying to call you out, just hoping to help.

Good luck with your project.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 12:19 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Delores---

I'm to the point where I no longer want a black man myself to be perfectly honest with you. Especially a black American man.

The problem, of course, is that I have to set the proper example for my sons and to affirm THEM.

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jackie
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 12:25 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Funny Cynique. Anyhow, congrats on yr new grandbaby.
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Delores
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 12:53 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

kola,

I don't think it's just a black man problem (although there definitely is a shortage) but there is a GOOD MAN shortage. I've read your posts on you recent relationship woes. I felt too shy to post there, but I wish you the best and I do believe you two will work it out. don't give up on love.

And mahogany- thanks for the INPUT. I was a little emotional while typing. :-)
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Mahogany Anais
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 12:59 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You're welcome, Delores. And I so hope you're wrong about that good man shortage. I'm recently back in the saddle again...hope springs eternal!
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Delores
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 01:16 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm sure you'll find someone. I'm not saying there's a bad man plague out there. Just alot of 'ok' men. The "princes" are a little harder to find but they are definitely out there.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 01:17 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Delores.

I have another date this Friday with a Black American guy friend. He's taking me to the Bonaventure.

PRAY he doesn't turn out to be "married" or with another woman. They DO THAT like it's nothing---date you, talk on the phone and then you find out they're not even free. Just want some new pussy.

And they think nothing of it.

....and then in June, when I go to Washington, D.C.

I'm going out with LAMBD.

Our old board mate. He is so tall, dark and FINE and he adores me!

But he's a PLAYER.



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Jackie
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 01:23 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola,
Was it you that asked me if I saw the foreign movie Snake of June ?? Or did you mention it in some of your writing ? I watched it last night and I thought it was interesting and cinematically beautiful but not as erotic as the description on the DVD cover claimed it was.
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Delores
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 01:30 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola,
I did read the poem, but I'm not going to put it in my project. It is VERY good and gripping and emotional. But I go to school with my sisters (THE WHITE BITCHES) and the great majority of them are rich, priveleged and unaware of any inequity in America. My project is very controversial already, and although the poem would be a GREAT wake up call that not everyone likes white people, I just know they won't get it. They'll just think it's some crazy black rant. But if you want to share some more poems i'd love to see them. if not i guess i'll just have to buy the book.

Oh and so far I think I am quoting Kola, cynique, babygirl, yvette, ABM and probably more. This is really great. I thank you all for you honest opinions. Keep them coming.
~Delores
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Delores
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 01:35 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola,

I'm live in D.C.!! let me know when you come down here so I can hide my yellow ass. Just kidding, this is "chocolate city" after all, I'm sure you'll have a good time with your friend or at least meeting new black men.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 01:37 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There are about 10 poems on that site, Delores. You just have to go back to the first page.

YES...you would probably love the book, actually.

And incidentally...I LOVE White People. It's "white supremacy" that I don't like, because it kills my people's souls and destroys us.

The poem is about those who have power over my life (black men, white men and white women)...and my refusal to give birth "TO THEM". My refusal to take part in their hatred and subjugation of me.

I LOVE White human beings and I love MIXED human beings.

It's them who truly fail see to my experience as anything other than a "rant" as you put it.

And because of that, it's impossible for there to be true understanding and friendship.

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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 01:40 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was adopted and raised in Anacostia Delores. I went back to North Africa in 2004, but before that I lived in D.C.

I was "Miss Fairfax, Virginia Fire and Safety".

Yes, please come to see me when I come to Washington. Make sure I know it's you, so that you don't have to pay for your books, plus I will bring you a gift.

I will be at KARIBU on Fri. June 3rd at 6:30 pm.

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Delores
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 01:44 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, I'll be there. And factually I live in Arlington. I didn't know there was a Miss Fairfax, maybe I'll there's a Miss Arlington :-) .

Anyways I will check your poems and let you know if I use any. And I definitely will stop by and see you. I'll try to remember. My email is brsug15@yahoo.com. so feel free to email me when you get here.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 01:46 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry I'm at the KARIBU store in....Prince George's County, just outside D.C.

The "white looking man" who will introduce me is my BROTHER--he's a brain surgeon. Out 8 kids my parents raised, He and my sister, Spring (who is very high yellow) are the two closest to me.

You really have got it wrong about me hating you.

I just become outraged when people like you don't see that a whole race of people is being DESTROYED, diluted, wiped away....because of brainwashing, and because I'm African and was put up for adoption for being "dark"---I feel that true change will only come from people like myself refusing to tolerate the "status quo" anymore....which includes, at times, going totally and completely against those who would have us be passive, which is usally the yellow people.



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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 01:47 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK

I will email you.



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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 01:55 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Jackie!!

I never heard of "Snake of June".

For people who don't know----Jackie Joice is a poet and a MAJOR "activist" in L.A. She went down to MEXICO and helped raised consciousness about the string of prostitutes that were being murdered down there.

It was really a fascinating story.

She also used to be a PUNK ROCK BAND!!!!

Didn't you guys make a Punk Rock movie, Jackie?

I have been wondering, Jackie, if you're still married to an African man?

I think that was you, wasn't it?



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Jackie
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 02:03 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola, they're not prostitutes...mostly young poor factory workers and random women ages 16-27. It's about 400 unsolved murders now. Never was in a punk rock band, I was in a African Highlife band for a minute(that's way before I met my husband) But I did make a documentary about women in Punk. That's totally different from the Juarez, Mexico situation. A film maker asked me to help raise awareness about the women of Juarez, so I did.
And yes I'm still married to my Ghanian man. We will be celebrating our 7th anniversary next month.
I'm trying to find out who told me about that movie Snake Of June...I thought you did or you had mentioned it in your writing.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 02:04 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Delores---

The Fairfax City FIRE DEPT. sponsors that beauty pageant...not the city.

I was "Miss Fire and Safety" for Fairfax, Va., but AFTER I WON.....the white girls found out that I was only 17 (you had to be 18) and raised hell until they took my crown away after I won.

I started living with one of the judges---a white Jewish man----and eventually aborted our child. I had run away from home to keep my tutor at school (a black American man) from being prosecuted for taking my virginity.

You will read about it in my autobiography.

So you see...I'm a very strange, bizzare, erratic person with a twisted life.

You will get to know me and we will be good friends.





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Yvette Perry
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 07:50 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Delores, are you in a sorority there in VA? If so, you know that you have just been hazed--and apparently passed with flying colors! LOL!

One more note about what I was saying about my Grandmother: part of her relatives' feelings about being superior--even more than light skinned, straight hair, light eyes, etc--was their claim to always being "free people of color" in this country. I have heard the same type of thing from some of my African and Carribean friends who are much darker than most whose ancestors were slaves.

Also, they are all very Catholic, and part of their sense of superiority stems from having 4 priests (4 at least that I know of) among them--Apparently I can mess up a little w/God cause my distant cousins devoted their lives to Him/Her!

Yeah, I bet your project is controversial! Good luck with it.
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Yvette Perry
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 07:51 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

PS, I talk about this issue a little more coherently here: http://blog.lib.umn.edu/archives/perry032/impossible/016032print.html
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ABM
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 07:54 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Delores,

During my youth, I lived near a large family of VERY lightskinned Black people. The father could have been confused with a Mexican and the mother looked Chinese. And they had 6 daughters and 1 son.

You can image what their children looked like.

Well, of course they were the ‘choice’ of the neighborhood.

The guys pursued the females like a school of piranhas. And the brother had to beat the local skeezers off with a Louisville Slugger.

The interesting thing: They almost exclusively dated/married the darkest people they could find. They seemed so ‘intent’ of such they often appear to not care very much whether their lovers were attractive (Though, I’ll admit that’s very subjective.).

And I’ve seen this (apparent) phenomenon of lightskinned Black preferring more phenotypically Blacks as I’ve gone further in life.

I won’t presume what I’ve witnessed is universal. But, perhaps such warrants consideration within your project (and in other discussions we might have on the colorism subject).


Btw: If you prepare/present this project with the aplomb by which you 'handled' Kola here, you should come up ‘aces’ in your “Language and Culture” class. :-)
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ABM
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 07:58 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yvette,

"free people of color" who are devoutly Catholic?

Hmmmm? These days, some might consider such contradictory.
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Yvette Perry
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 08:05 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ABM: Better watch out--'member, I have an "in" w/the One upstairs!
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ABM
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 08:15 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yvette,

There's a guy named Lucifer who used to argue the same thing.

Hehe!
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ABM
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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 01:51 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Delores,

There yawl go...YET AGAIN…with the it’s hard to find a good man lament. I wonder whether good women ‘find’ “princes”…or do they help ‘make’ them.

There seems a glut of women who presume their competency in one endeavor equates to such in another. Having a master’s degree, a Dentyne smile and a Benz does NOT mean you’re anymore worth a dayam as some man’s woman/wife than if you have a GED, gapped teeth and a Hyundai.


Kola,

I hope none of your gentleman callers frequent this site. Otherwise, the disdain you express here for dating may be setting things up so that you/they will be disappointed.

And why shouldn’t guys indiscriminately pursue sex?

Hell! So many of you have willfully ‘depreciating’ the value of your own p*$$% that guys have been trained to view asking for sex to have all the exclusivity of asking a woman to buy him a bottle of Coca Cola...that’s on sale.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 02:00 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, ABM....I am not easy and you KNOW that!

And in fact, earlier, when I said that I was going to let LAMBD fuck me next month in Washington, D.C.-----I was only being EVIL because it's that time of the month.

Of course I do WANT to go to bed with LAMBD, but my feelings for Thomas won't let me yet.

And whatever guys do...I just don't want to get hurt.

Black men, it seems to me, get a special thrill out of hurting a black woman, and luckily, I haven't been caught in the noose yet.

But check out this "salute" to Kola Boof by one admirer Rudolph Lewis. I know he meant well....but.....would you go on a date after reading this?

AND DO NOT TELL HIM. He's a sweet man, he meant no harm.

http://www.nathanielturner.com/hymntokolaboof.htm

I KNOW
I KNOW

I set myself up for this kind of "admiration".




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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 02:09 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You're right, ABM.

I "made" my Prince out of Thomas.

But I have to say---even with our breakup and all, he's a SUPERIOR man. A truly good one. I thank God all the time...that I chose such a good man to have babies by. I talk about what a wonderful man he is in my upcoming internet video...because I want my sons to ALWAYS see me praising their father.

You're a good man, too.

But the problem with "good men" is that they really don't realize how rare and few and far between they are. And they don't also ignore the "(realities)" for women in this society...with the "outnumbering" and all.

Many men take advantage of, demean and humiliate women....mainly because there's an Over-Abundance of women and the culture---black culture---is very Woman-Hating.

Of course, the good thing about being Kola Boof is that I get to have men all over the world "intrigued" by me---and even if all they really want to do is hit and run---I still get LOTS of attention, which creates the illusion that there's plenty of romantic opportunity for me....but I'm too much of a "PRO" myself, not to see that most of these men are.....

Like sports host Michael Irvin of the Dallas Cowboys.

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ABM
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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 02:23 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola,

I've said this ad nauseum. But it never ceases to amaze me how you women disparage Black men as if we are some alien lifeform that's be born/bred separate from you.

For every lousy man there is likely a woman that is in some major way...lousy. And the sad part about that is too many of you are so self-deluded, you can't smell your own s#*+. You're like Snow White's wicked witch stepmother staring into a mirror that tells you have a beauty you do not actually possess.

Look. If I wanted to, I could rattle off a MYRIAD reasons why Black women are just as culpable for the demise of the Black family as are men. But what good would that do. All it would elicit would be scores of succeeding posts of clever, yet vacuous oneupsmanship.

So I'll simply propose the following: Ladies, inside every pauper is a King. Are YOU Queen enough to help him find his granduer so that you and he can wrought an Empire?
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ABM
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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 02:24 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola: "most of these men are.....Like sports host Michael Irvin of the Dallas Cowboys."

ABM: Then may GOD indeed have mercy on our wretched souls.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 02:37 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, ABM.

I won't be having much of anything to say about black men for much longer.

Trust me.

But in "Diary of a Lost Girl"....I do have the infamous "Authentic Black Man" chapter---the one my publishers believes could destroy my career. But I don't give a fuck. I've waited ALL MY LIFE to say what I have to say about black motherfuckers. Worldwide.

There's another chapter, too, called "The Light That I Blessed"....which is devoted to the black men that I REALLY love--ie. Derrick Bell, Ousmane Sembene, Kalamu ya Salaam. You're included in it, although, I don't know how I managed to make you seem like a real person.

I didn't realize it when I was writing it, but I now see that the book is kind of my "goodbye" love letter to black men (not that they'll give a shit---of course they won't). But I cried reading it the other night, because I realized what I had written was a goodbye.

I just feel as though the black man doesn't exist anymore, and even as I see my race dying---there is a part of me that suddenly wants to stop fighting it. To just let Africa perish.

I think we've been defeated.








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ABM
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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 07:28 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola,

Speaking on the behalf of all Black men: We will MISS you.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 10:00 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I seriously doubt that ABM.

Everybody loves you. You don't need me.

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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 10:00 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Seriously. It's the truth.

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ABM
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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 10:29 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kola,

You've loved by everyone, My Sister. Even - perhaps especially - by those who disagree with you.

You'll be fine. Just give yourself a moment or 2 to be human. :-)
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Delores
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Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 02:53 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow,
I didn't know the thread would go in THIS direction. Well in response to ABM I agree that women also are to blame for fucked up men, and they themselves are often to weighted down with emotional baggage that they can't sustain a healthy relationship. Yes, you can take a "pauper" and make him a "prince", but just from what I've seen in my circle of family is that what often happens is a woman spends years standing by her man and trying to make him a "prince" only to realize one day that their mate will never change, and doesn't want to. Or if they do transform their man into a "prince" they end up leaving them to bestow their princely charms on another woman. The prime example in my life is my mentor and my mom's best friend. She married this man raised two beautiful intelligent black children, put herself through medical school WHILE raising kids and HELPING him become a doctor. So then, he became a prince, and left her for a white woman.
But I think alot of what you've said is true, that women don't have enough self worth anymore and that teaches men that they can disrespect them, use them, and then throw them away.
It's a complicated issue that you can't just blame on "men" or "women. But I'm just a girl who has seen time and time again women slaving over men who will never treat them right. But I guess you could argue it's the women's fault for not respecting herself. Anyways I'm a little too tired to write coherently anymore.

But I just wanted to thank everyone for their honest opinions. The first part of my project, a presentation was a hit. I didn't know what people would think, but I had students from Africa tell me how "right on" I was about the color scale and tensions within the Black communities worldwide. And I "mixed" girl came to me after reading Kola's statement and said "all my life I wondered what Black women were thinking with their looks. Now I know". It was really powerful and emotional for some people. I didn't realize it would get such a response but people thanked me to talk about this subject and create a forum for them to discuss their experiences. So thank you so much everyone. I will try to keep up here, but I'm in the midst of graduation, moving, life changes etc. Take care of yourselves.
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kola@aalbc.com
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Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 03:29 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bravo, darling.

Bravo.



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ABM
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Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 09:50 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Delores,

You may recall my saying that just because a woman is accomplished in some areas doesn’t mean she’ll make an especially good mate. The same holds true for men.

Because someone’s a doctor doesn’t make him a ‘prince’.

It’s quite possible your mentor’s hubby was just another @$$hole who was smart/disciplined enough to get through medical school.

The medical profession is rife with arrogant, selfish, self-deluded, double-dealing types. So, alas, what happened to your mentor does not surprise me.

And there is the possibility that you are NOT privy to all that has transpired between your elder and her ex’. Perhaps the problems between them are not as unilateral as they appear to you.

But all that’s really an aside to what I’m saying.

I’ve NEVER advocated women “slaving” over men. I can hardly think of a scenario whereby that’s in the best interests of either the woman or the man.

I believe men and women should make equitable (not equal, because I doubt there’s such a thing) contributions to a relationship. Otherwise, ultimately it will fail and all will lose.

And a Queen does not “slave” for ANYONE.

Rather, a Queen helps provide an environment that brings out the King and then helps him to make a Kingdom.

That could be achieved via an assortment of things that have nothing to do with “slaving”., starting, perhaps, with a woman tweaking her perspective and personae...at least a tad.

I’m happy for you that your project was a hit. :-)


PS: How does your views about and experiences with Black men influence the choosing of your current mate?
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Delores
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Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 02:26 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ABM,
I think my experience with black men and men of other races HAS affected my choice of my current boyfriend. I don't want to sound like a sob story, but when you're "mixed" you don't quite fit in anywhere.
I had problems with black men for assorted reasons. Some were just assholes, some were only with me because I was light-skinned, and some although they dated me treated me as kind of a "close stranger" we dated but didn't feel comfortable enough talking about racial issues because i'm not "really black".

I dated other white men, and have experienced the "jungle fever" crap. I have also dated white men who were truly genuine in their feelings, but their family disapproved so much that there was no point in getting serious. Finally I just gave up on men and decided I wouldn't fall in love..ever. That's exactly when my current boyfriend came in the picture. We started as friends, then lovers, and now I can't imagine being with anyone else (which is a big deal for me because I was the wishy washy type that never wanted to setlle down..ever). I think what really mattered wasn't that he was white, but that he doesn't even see me as "mixed" or anything, just Delores. I think he's unique because he grew up poor and went to a school where the majority of students were hispanic or black. So in A SMALL WAY he knows how it feels to be in the minority. But that's what made the difference to me. Race isn't an issue for us, never has been. Now we have had arguments where I've had to demonstrate how racist the media etc. is, and I can tell that the 3 years we've been together has had an effect on him. He rants more about racism and inequality more than me now!
But to sum it all up, after being with men who only cared what I looked like or "what" I was, I finally was able to find someone who only cared about "who" I am. And I don't think any woman should settle for less.
~Delores
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ABM
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Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 09:01 am:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Delores,

Thanks for sharing your opinions.

Being a Black man, I find it sad that – by your comments – you appear to be better able to relate to White guys than Black ones. But, I guess if you look more White than Black, I can see how some brothers might reflexively question the depth of your 'inner Blackness’.

I’m not saying that’s right/fair. It isn't.

But as you can see what regularly occurs here, we ALL have a LONG way to go on these issues.

I wish you all the best in your pursuit of love.
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Timothy Hawkins
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Posted on Saturday, July 30, 2005 - 07:19 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For what it is worth, here is a white american males two cents. As a teenager in highschool, I did not "go steady" with white girls. Why you may ask, I was not attracted to them. I fell in love with a girl who was native american. She was a beautiful girl, with raven black hair and dark tan skin. I only saw her, and not her race.
When I went to university I was in class with many young black men and women. This was in the 1970's. I would have love to have gone out with some of these "black" ladies. Why you may ask. I believe it was because they represented another experience in America that I was unfamiliar with and could very well have learned from. I am far and distant from the black american experience because of my own race and ethnic background. I have southern roots, and I am somewhat well read on southern history. I, like my 4 brothers would have found it hard to live in a place that practiced the "peculiar institution". I am glad that my family left the deep south. I am a catholic christian. People from all races are members of the Catholic Church. I worship with people from all over the world. I find it impossible to put these people in racial terms. I find it impossible to put anyone in racial terms. What I am saying may not be related to this forum, but I was compelled to write my feelings. I found this site because I was trying to find out what the terms, high yellow and redbone acutally meant.
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Cynnique
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Posted on Saturday, July 30, 2005 - 10:49 pm:   Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you serious????? What these terms meant?? Or what they mean, because they are still in use. You sound like a latent racist, someone who automatically thinks all "negroes" look alike. The best way I can illustrate the terms you mention is to cite an example of someone who is not blue-black or plum-black or any variation of the shade of brown, and that might be - hummm...how about Jasmine Guy? If you are not familiar with her, she played Whitley on the TV series "It's a Different World" or - how about Lisa Bonet, the middle daughter on The Bill Cosby show. Those are my choices for high yellow or red bone women of color. Some people consider Halle Berry high yellow but, to me, she is amber yellow.

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